Is this overhang somehow through-bolted and plugged or are these simply glued joints? If, as I suspect, they're glued joints, the overhang needs some kind of support - and whether it's two 9" pieces or three 4" pieces doesn't matter from a strength perspective. Time and weight will take their toll. An option would be to remove the top, rout some grooves in the bottom side to inlay some steel support rods or angle iron. Epoxy the support pieces in. I've seen this done to support stone tops where there was no feasible way to support the top with a corbel or "L-bracket".

I am not sure how to help, but I wanted to say how pretty it is! I really love it!

Dseng said about what I would have. Metal bars can be set into the wood and laid back into the cabs behind it. It ends up looking like a kind of spider web if you could see it from the underside. The supported aren't visible from the side or from across the room.

At one point I was planning stone on my island and asked the fabricator about this issue as I decided I didn't want corbels and didn't have room for leg supports. She said they do this all the time. It would not affect the door swing of your other cabs.

Since then, I changed my mind to a walnut top. I found a local wood worker to make mine also. I had to add a small pony wall for other reasons running perpendicular to the island so that will act as support one one side. My overhang is 17" deep about 52" wide. My wood worker said I didn't need any other support than that. No corbels, metal brackets, etc.

HTH!

I think this is the kind of support breezy is talking about. These are flat metal supports. When the granite installers put them in, they routed a notch in the top of the cabinet the depth of the support so it is flush with the cabinet top and sits under the granite. This is our granite installers' favorite support; they call corbels "knee knockers." I would think they would work just as well on your lovely wood top, and you'll never see them. Also, I don't see a problem with the two wider boards.

That's what we have for our soapstone. They are called Freedom Braces. Here's alink to Federal Brace where we orderd them from.

Here is a link that might be useful: Federal Brace

remodelfla-ours don't have a 90 degree turn in them. The entire thing is a flat bar, so the hidden half looks just like the half you can see in the picture. I can't remember if they put screws in the hidden part, but I think they must have.

Thank you all!

Especially for saying the kitchen looks good - I didn't realize, in my haste to post a picture, that the SubZero is still encased in cardboard and the backsplash is raw sheetrock - well, that's temporary! I will post again when all is done... Whenever that will be... Sigh.

To dseng: to the best of my knowledge, the top is bolted to the island and the planks are tongue-and-groove. Really, it is a well-made piece, which is why I hate to rip it out (again). Basically, you're saying the width of the boards doesn't matter, they will take the same amount of stress. The contractor actually says two seams (three boards) will be less strong than one seam (two boards). I'm not an engineer, but it seems to me that one seam will, over time, separate under the pressure.

So it seems like no one is a fan of legs? Looks like I will be telling him tomorrow morning it has to be ripped out and remade with some steel supports set into the underside.

You guys are the greatest!

No, I'm a fan of legs. Love them! In pics. For me with my island size and trying to maintain the necessary 24" of width per stool, I didn't have room for legs. If I had 30" per stool, I'd have gone for legs.

Breezy - I meant to ask- what is a pony wall?

And how did you get away with a 17" overhang with no support underneath? That's almost 1/3 deeper than mine, though about half the length. Maybe yours is thicker? Butcher block? Mine is just inch-and-a-half planks (also walnut).

I hate to think my contractor just doesn't want to rip it out and start over (I'd be just as happy to finally get my cooktop in), but he'll be long gone when the overhang warps or cracks or snaps off when someone leans down too hard, and I think I'm going to trust the objective opinions here more than his on this one!

So, anyone for legs? We could pick up the motif on the two pillars on either side... Anyone?

Pony wall is just a short wall. In this case, the wall is only as high as the base cabs it sits next to.

Here's a pic before my marble went in on the perimeter. You can see the basic 2"x4" frame of the wall coming off the island. My cab maker is making panels that match my cabs to cover the three exposed sides of the "wall" to make it look more built-in.

I asked the wood worker making my top over and over if I needed more support. He said I didn't. He's been making counters for years and has a good rep so I'm trusting him on this one. (He also installs quartz counters.) He did say that if after we got it in we really felt like it needed more support we could go with the metal fingers supporting from the base cabs under the walnut like Suzanne posted.

My walnut is also 1.5" plank style. Yours looks beautiful! How are you finishing it?

I agree with the others as far as bracing. For the size of the planks, I would have them redo it and make it with the extra three 4" planks that was part of your original contract. The kitchen looks great so far!

The carpenter will be here in an hour to discuss our next step with the top.

No votes here for legs, and my team of in-house design gurus, who came over last night to kibbitz (SIL and best friend), also chose legs as a last resort.

Most people don't seem to mind the different sized planks, except me, so thank you kitchenkrazed09 for making me feel like I have to stick to my guns on that one.

Something I should have pointed out at the beginning - the top could not be installed in one piece, nor can it be removed in one piece, due to my low ceiling and the two pillars at either end. In fact, this is why we had to go with a wooden island top to begin with, because granite to match the perimeters couldn't be installed on the island without a seam. I should also mention that we did not rebuild our cabinets, only replaced the counter tops, so the job did have some challenges.

To your point dseng - 200 lb. worker was kneeling up on the island this morning finishing trim around the range hood. The contractor happened to be standing nearby and I said, "See? That's exactly why we need steel supports under that counter."

Breezy - my understanding is that the top will be finished "like a beautiful dining room table," but we haven't picked out stain or finish yet. Because my cooktop will be set inside it, I'm hoping for a super-durable finish that doesn't end up looking too much like plastic.

Good luck! Let us know how it turns out.

Dave

Well, I made the executive decision to opt for function over form. When the contractor and carpenter showed up this morning, I told them I will live with the mismatched planks (the contractor swears when it's finished I won't even notice. Really?) in exchange for three L-brace supports that will be added underneath the countertop.

It's partly that I don't want to wait another week for my cooktop... or longer if the carpenter is PO'd and drags his heels (over his own mistake) and partly that I hate ripping out a beautiful piece that enough people say they don't notice the flaws in (I always will) and partly that I'm not sure my old island can stand another major surgery.

Mostly, I just want those steel supports under that overhang. They tell me I don't need them, but they WOULD say that, wouldn't they?

Thanks to all. I will post as soon as we're finished.

You don't really need L-brackets, but the flat pieces like in the given picture. The pieces will need to be long enough to give you, say, 70% coverage of the overhang and then go, say, half the depth of the cabinets. Bolt them to the cabinets, then bolt the counter top back in place.

Also, since it isn't clear from your picture, you should make sure the cabinets are firmly attached to the floor. It may not be that important since your overhang isn't that great, but the whole cabinet could roll over with enough weight on the counter edge.

does anyone know where to get the flat brackets? and what they are called?

thanks for any help

Our invoice says "steel flat bars" for $49 each. A quick online search doesn't show me the bar that is installed in my counter, so I don't know where you'd find them.

I'm guessing you could get them at an actual hardware store that fabricates sheet metal. DH had several pieces of metal cut to various sizes and thicknesses while installing our master tub.

A properly glued joint is actually stronger than the wood itself. The way a well-glued joint fails is not the glue separating but from wood failure along the joint. That is, the glue will hold but the wood fibers close to the joint will break/tear away. If the joint is glued properly you should have absolutely zero concern that it will ever fail on its own, providing it's not subjected to severe stress (like the aforementioned linebacker sitting on the edge).

I definitely would stick with the 2 9" boards you got, vs asking for 4 4" boards. The only possible downside is a small increased risk of warping, vs having the extra glue joints.

As far as epoxying metal rods for support - this is something I would not do. I think dseng and others have forgotten that wood moves. Gluing an 18" rod cross-grain could cause real problems as the wood moves, resulting in buckling, cracking, and other bad things. You can still use a rod, but with an attachment method that allows for movement. For example you could use U-brackets epoxied and screwed to hold the rod in place vertically (against the wood) while leaving the rod free to move horizontally (in the same plane as the wood but perpendicular to the grain).

Personally, I think I'd just find a way to attach a couple of deep corbels at either end and call it a day. But then I don't have rowdy linebackers running around the house either :-)

For what it's worth, we have a cherry plank counter similar to yours. It has an 11" overhang and no supports, and we've had not problems with it (installed summer 2009.) We have random-width planks, the two making up the overhang are about 4" and 7".

Thank you for all these informative comments. I wish I had more expertise.

I'm kind of getting a vibe from my contractor, because we both know the carpenter screwed up and forgot the overhang in the first place (at which time proper supports could have been integrated) like, 'Just give her whatever she asks for.' And he and the carpenter are probably getting a vibe from me like, 'I don't have a ton of faith in anything these guys say.'

So I'm grateful for all these comments. To chiefneil: I'm glad to hear you say keep the 9" planks, since that's what I"m doing. Could you explain a little more how to support them? I do have two athletic teenaged sons and their friends to worry about, and I did think about just putting plain wooden legs on either side - but no one seems to like this idea.

I guess I should have added that the top cannot simply be removed and put back to add flat steel beams - it had to go in in two pieces because of my low ceiling and the posts at either end of the island. Taking it off at this point means destroying it. So any supports will have to be added after-the-fact. Legs and corbels at either end will work. Steel brackets will work. But now I'm nervous about what effect that has on the wood...

Staceyneil (any relation to chiefneil?): are you sure your overhang has no support? Maybe they built it in and it's invisible? Your situation makes me think I should leave well enough alone!

Would love to hear from anyone who has a similar overhang, and how they support it - or don't...

Thanks!

Yup, I am positive: we installed it ourselves (had a cabinet shop fabricate it, but we finished it -Waterlox- and installed it.) Seriously, my daughter and husband freak me out sometimes by leaning their whole body weight on it, but so far it's just fine.

Hi, we just used brackets with routed out stock molding to cover them up. I didn't want anything sticking out too far where people would bump their knee or legs. You can use many different types of routed out stock molding and paint them your cabinet color. You could center yours to each section and have a matching line going down to your base boards.

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Thank you jterrilynn- I wish I had a simple solution, like yours, for my overhang, but mine is wood and I am beginning to think chiefneil is correct that I am making a mistake using any kind of bolted braces underneath because the wood will be unable to move.

I overheard the carpenter say something like this to the contractor, but I didn't interrupt them. My sense is that wood and stone get different treatments and I am back to thinking I will just do two legs on either side, or wooden corbels and, as chief neil says, call it a day.

Thanks to all for your help!

Are those all doors on the back of the cabinet, or are some just panels? The easiest solution would be to use some corbels if those aren't all doors. You'd probably need to reinforce the point where the corbels attach to the cabinet if it's just a sheet of plywood there.

There's also various ways to attach rods, supports, etc to allow for wood movement. I was just warning against gluing it in cross-grain. For example you could take a rectangular steel plate and bore out elongated holes. Screw those in from the bottom, center the screws in the elongated holes, use washers, and just tighten lightly snug. That way as the wood moves the screws slide in the elongated slots.

Instead of long plates cross-grain, you might also go with narrower plates running with the joint. That would make wood movement less of an issue. That would bolster the joint but not the overhang as a whole.

Hopefully your cabinetmaker will come up with some creative ideas for you to consider.