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terible

tung oil 'finish' may not have tung oil

terible
16 years ago

Hi all, My Boos meat block came and I love, love , love it.I am mainly using it for a small 30/30 island, not chopping. Went to H Depot to get some tung oil but could only find Minwax Tung Oil Finish. After four coats this is what I found on the Sawcreek forum & thought I would share. Tung oil finish may not contain any tung oil......

"Tung Oil Finish" is a marketing expression for products that the manufacturer thinks will give you a finish like the finish you get from a true tung oil. These "Tung Oil Finishes" may or may not contain some true tung oil, but most do not contain any true tung oil. Their only claim to the use of the word "tung" is that it claims to give you the appearence of finish that results from tung oil. You're buying a "faux tung oil finish".

There are two types of "tung oil finishes". One is mixture of varnish, boiled linseed oil and mineral spirits (called an oil/varnish). The exact mixtures are proprietary but 1/3, 1/3, and 1/3 will get you real close. Some manufacturers add a dollop of drier to speed up the drying. This same mixture is frequently also called "Danish Oil" because it gives a finish that resembles the finish used on much of the "danish style" teak furniture imported in the 50's and 60's. It closely mimics a true oil finish but the addition of the varnish resins gives it more durability and protection.

Here are some oil/varnish mixtures*)

Deft Danish Oil

General Finishes' Sealacell

Behlen Danish Oil

Maloof Finish

Behr Scandinavian Tung Oil Finish

Minwax Tung Oil Finish

Minwax Antique Oil Finish

Velvit Oil

Watco Danish Oil

McCloskey Tung Oil Finish (contains pure tung oil, not linseed oil)

The second "tung oil finish" is one made from varnish and mineral spirits. The approximate ratio is 1:1. This is really just a thinned varnish just like the stuff sold as "wiping varnish". When one two or three coats are applied, it also mimics the finish produced by a true oil but it is harder than the oil/varnish above because it does not have as much oil. It is slightly more protective than the oil/varnish type or tung oil finish. For all intents and purposes it is a varnish finish.

Here are some thinned varnishes*)

Minway Wiping Varnish

Watco Wiping Varnish

Formby's Tung Oil Finish

Zar Wipe-on Tung Oil

Val-Oil

Hope's Tung Oil Varnish

Gillespie Tung Oil

Waterlox

General Finishes' Arm R Seal

Jasco Tung Oil

The above is not to be confused with True tung oil as it comes from the nuts of a tree in China--and some other parts of the world. A product that is a true tung oil will have a label that says either "pure" or "100%". If it doesn't say that on the label, IT ISN'T TRUE TUNG OIL.

Well, my Boos block looks real nice with the tung oil finish even though it has no tung oil. Hope this will help forum members with decisions on how to finish butcher block or wood counter tops.

Comments (9)

  • chiefneil
    16 years ago

    The information you found is true, and I congratulate you on become a better educated consumer. For some reason wood finishing is full of myths and mistruths - "tung oil finish" that doesn't actually contain tung oil is a perfect example. I've seen other examples on this forum as well, and think it's a shame that people are being mislead by improper labeling.

    If you want to learn more about wood finishing, the two best-known authors on the subject are Jeff Jewitt and Bob Flexner. I've never read Jewitt's books, but Flexner does a great job of cutting through the myths and accurately describing the facts and science.

  • mondragon
    16 years ago

    The point that a "tung oil finish" doesn't have to contain any tung oil and can contain many other things as well including substances you wouldn't want to prepare food on is correct.

    The generalizations aren't, though, and some of the information is just wrong.

    Pure tung oil soaks into wood and over time dries by polymerizing - the molecules bond to each other and become stronger. Heating the oil before it is applied causes some or all of the molecules to join up so that they're too large to soak in and voila, you've got a varnish because "varnish" simply means that it dries on the surface of what you're applying it to. The polymerized substance can also be called "resin". (also "boiled linseed oil" isn't really boiled, it's just mixed with a solvent which causes it to dry like other oils do when they've been heated.)

    Waterlox, according to their website, is a combination of "resin" which could be anything including cooked tung oil, pure tung oil (to soak into the wood) and solvent to keep it thin and liquid.

    For me, for food surfaces I want either pure tung oil - the wood is protected but nothing builds up on the surface - or a mix of pure tung oil and a varnish (aka resin) to soak into the wood as well as build up on the surface for extra protection. And I don't want any toxic metallic driers in it. So I use pure tung oil thinned with citrus solvent on my chopping surfaces and pure tung oil followed by thinned Waterlox on surfaces that food will be on.

    As you found out, Minwax Tung Oil finish is pretty, but not tung oil at all :)

  • mindstorm
    16 years ago

    Q for mondragon or chifneil or any other informed individual:

    is it safe to have mineral spirits or a mineral spirits derivative on a butcher block where presumably comestibles may be processed (cut, dried, spread out, slathered) or or consumed? I thought mineral spirits based wood products were okay for general furniture but not so much in the kitchen. Could you please expostulate and clarify - I'm frequently befuddled on this point.

    Thank you.

  • chiefneil
    16 years ago

    I was actually reading an article the other day saying that no wood finish has actually been officially FDA approved as food safe. However they're all generally considered safe lacking evidence to the contrary.

    Anyway, here's what Flexner says about the food-safety of driers (and presumably this applies to mineral spirits as well).

    "Salad-bowl finish is simply a wiping varnish. The implication in the name is that it is safe for contact with food and for small children who might chew on the finished wood. It is safe of course, once it has cured, but so are all the other available varnishes and wiping varnishes.
    The safety concern is the metallic driers used to speed the drying of the finish. Lead was once used and it isnÂt safe. But lead isnÂt used anymore. It takes several driers to replace the lead, and there are only a few driers available. So all varnishes use essentially the same driers. There is no difference in the safety factor of any of these driers. All are safe.

    ItÂs amazing to me how the food-safe myth continues to be repeated in woodworking circles. (And more amazing still that salad-bowl finish is considered safe while the other wiping varnishes arenÂt!) Food safety is a non-issue. All finishes currently available to woodworkers are safe to eat off of or chew on once the finish has fully cured. Curing occurs faster the thinner the film and the warmer the surrounding air. Press your nose up against the hardened finish and take a whiff. If you can smell anything, the finish isnÂt cured. Give it some more time."

    Here is a link that might be useful: Flexner article on varnishes

  • terible
    Original Author
    16 years ago

    I would like to know about food prepping safety as well. My block top will be used mainly as extra counter space, and "hopefully" no chopping. If the tung oil "finish" is not safe for food areas, can my minwax tung oil "finish" be toped by a compatible finish. Like maybe the waterlox or some other bullet proof product 0r pure tung oil????

  • mindstorm
    16 years ago

    chiefneil, gosh, thanks so much for digging up the answer. I ran through the article but I'd like to read the full article in a lot more detail - loads of good information there. Thanks a lot. Sounds like mineral spirits at least are not a consumption problem once "cured".

    Ok, another uneducated question for you spawned from that article - is polyurethane a mineral spirit or is it a different article altogether?

  • mondragon
    16 years ago

    Mineral spirits - like citrus solvent - are used because they evaporate, supposedly leaving behind just the substances they were used to thin, like oil or varnish. The danger with solvents is with inhaling the vapors while they are evaporating. My guess is that they leave behind some residue, the question is if the residue is both toxic and in sufficient quantity to have an effect.

    Driers are chemicals added to a varnish to make it harden faster. Used to be lead, now seems to be much less toxic (or non-toxic) substances.

    Polyurethane is another kind of varnish. Some polyurethanes are water-based instead of oil-based so they don't need a solvent.

    The question is if it's safe to prepare food on a surface that's been finished with a modern solvent-based varnish like Minwax Tung Oil finish. My personal belief is that once it's dry (and the smell test suggested in the article chiefneil linked to is good) that a good washing with soap and water is going to remove the vast majority of anything that could come off with contact with food and anything that did would be in such miniscule amounts as to be no risk. Think about all the plastic food packaging our food is in contact with, anything I'd get from a counter top wouldn't even compare.

  • antss
    16 years ago

    Why not use mineral oil. It's available everywhere, is cheap, you don't have to worry about special additives being put in it, mis labeling, this brand or that, someone having an allergic reaction to it, oh and IT'S safe for food contact wet, dry, and in between.

    Basiclly - use MINERAL OIL on cutting surfaces. It ends the wondering, confusion and discussion.

  • PRO
    Heritage Restoration,
    last year
    last modified: last year

    Sutherland Welles polymerizes Tung oil to make it a better bonding, protective, and natural finish

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