So, I'm using your kitchen to work out my lateral thinking brain cells, in case you're wondering why I'm so involved here. It's a great exercise for me.

Oh, crap, I'm in love. I'm am soooooo a turn of the century oak gal. Now that I know this I see your plan does have a space blocked out for "buffet" that I couldn't read before.

So it seems like almost all your elements are non-negotiable. You are stuck with the location of the door to the left of the cooktop. Stuck with the bump out behind the cooktop. Corner to the right of the cooktop I assume is pretty non-negotiable as well. You want to retain the sink position under the window and because of plumbing issues. Porch door is only slightly negotiable but doesn't help you that much, moved toward the buffet wall direction. Fridge position is then fairly locked in to the present recess if you keep the fridge in the kitchen proper. Wall to the left has that built-in (I think as I recall it's a small cabinet on the wall?) and is also the real estate for the buffet.

This means that at least one element has to give.

So far the choices are:

1) Live with the sucky door function of the fridge door.

2) Lose money getting rid of the new fridge and buying ANOTHER new fridge that fits better.

3) Partial crappy compromise - spend a lot of money moving a doorway a few inches and get hardly anything better in return, but a little better fridge access.

4) Lose the buffet IN the kitchen - oh, wait, no. no. way.

5) Locate the fridge in the laundry room.

6) Split fridge function to below-counter fridges, but this is expensive, inefficient, and eats cabinet space.

7) Completely blow out the wall between kitchen and porch and make it one space housing kitchen and laundry functions - this may not be any sort of option either structurally or financially.

8) Lose the window currently close to the little eating table and use that real estate to park the fridge.

9) Lose the window or obstruct the window just outside the porch doorway by switching the location of the porch door entrance with the location of the present fridge recess.

BBDF -- YES! These are the issues! EXACTLY!

Thanks for putting so much thought into this.

As you can see, I am 'stuck'.

This is a horrible kitchen. It is THE worst layout. There is no where for the bloody refrigerator to go in this house. It's like I have a VW Bug in my kitchen.

#7:
I have thought of for YEARS. It's sort of my 'fantasy'. However, this week, in total desperation, I applied for a home improvement loan at my bank -- but - I really don't want to accumulate a bunch of debt for a remodel. It would probably cost $50k at least. It's more of an 'option'. Not sure yet if I'd go thru with it.

#3: This is my current plan. It IS a crappy compromise! I'm potentially spending money for a design I don't 'love'.

#1, 2, 5, 6: I've thought of all of these - especially the under the counter frig. You get little space for a lot of cost.

#8: I've done that already (just blocked the window w/fridge). It looks horrible. I've literally moved the fridge to every location in my kitchen...by myself.

#9: I don't think this would work?....This is the back entry-way to my yard and I have the laundry area behind the louver doors.

Well, we're barely at the threshold of lateral thinking, see. We're at the end of conventional thinking, about your kitchen. Now we shift to lateral, which means we free ourselves of normal constraints of how things are USUALLY done, and we look at FUNCTIONALITY and how to use something ELSE to achieve a certain functionality. Time to get out of the box.

Can you post a layout of the porch room and sizes, and a picture of the wall that holds the fridge recess, taken from about the doorway to the left of the cookout?

I need that data to start to get out of the box.

I feel more familiar with some of the constraints (closed pathways) but now need to see where there are mouseholes for opportunities (open pathways). Don't worry, I won't be miffed if you ultimately choose other ideas. For me it's a challenge and exercise of something I like to do (lateral thinking) and if it ends up with something useful to you then great. But if not, it's a whole lotta fun for me in the exercise.

Plus, as I mentioned in your earlier thread, I lurve me a vintage space. I don't see a hellish kitchen at all. I see a cool vintage space just aching to express itself. Maybe cramped, but definitely with style and personality. Cramped is par for the course in these vintage homes, so that's ok. As long as we can get functionality. Then we add in the style.

Are you a professional designer? You seem pretty knowledgeable about this stuff.

I think I'm too close to it now - for too long- and I have lost a bit of perspective. I keep turning the same ideas over and over at this point....

I'll post a series of pics....sorry...don't know how to other than one at a time.

View from kitchen into mud room....

On the left...behind the louver doors...the laundry.

Inside the pantry-- where the frig is supposed to go.

Never mind on the picture; you have one in this thread already shot where I needed, I just went back and found it.

Now, just need the porch room layout and dimensions, throughout.

I have an idea. : )

No, not a pro designer; just a total geek.

I think I have a solution.

It solves the fridge door problem, allowing you to open your fridge doors for access.

It should not cost that much to do, in terms of your general contractor.

You get to keep your buffet. In the kitchen. And all the windows.

You can keep your present fridge.

You get to keep the rest of your kitchen layout as designed, if you want.

====

Here's what you will lose:

You will lose one door. Not doorway, the actual physical door, the swinging plank thing.

You will lose a bit of climate control between the kitchen and the porch. Not sure if this is a deal breaker.

You will lose the pantry closet, physically.

===

Now, here is the idea:

The door between the kitchen and porch. Remove the door, the swinging plank thing. Take that door opening and expand it, widen it toward the sink wall, making a large opening that mostly encompasses where the opening to the recess would have been. You have already cleared that wall for destruction and allotted the pantry/closet real estate for the fridge, so presumably this is not a problem.

Now, tear down the door wall and side wall of the pantry closet. This might cause flooring issues, but just hold tight - that is solvable.

NOW...now.

You take your fridge and put it where the pantry closet was, facing the door of the fridge where the pantry door was.

Technically, your fridge is in the porch, but with a large opening, this is now nearly one room, without taking the WHOLE wall away.

Your fridge doors should now open fully, both of them.

Your fridge is literally one or two more steps farther than it would have been, in the recess, but faced 90 degrees rotated counter clockwise to what it would have been.

Your fridge no longer impinges into your kitchen space, unless a door is open, but is totally accessible to the kitchen through the large opening in the wall. You probably have enough space to re-case that opening fully if you want, or if not you can do the "beam-look" treatment we talked about earlier.

As you stand in front of your fridge looking at the fridge doors, the wall between the kitchen and porch covers most of the left side of the fridge, but is back far enough so when you open the fridge left door you have full clearance. But the left side of your fridge is nicely behind a piece of wall and edged in some casing even, perhaps.

And here is another view of how this would work.

Yeah, for such a geek, my photoshop skills are crude, with gimp.

Let me know if you need more details:

Window to doorway 131.5 inches
Door jamb (pic attached) 7 inches

Pantry door to window sill 46.5 inches

Louver doors to exterior door 56.5

Another angle....

OK, so I see from the above picture that the pantry is contiguous with the louvered door closet. Do you have enough real estate if you take out the pantry front (door) wall - is that space wide enough for the width of your fridge with a few inches width to spare (you need some room for air circulation so the fridge can cool properly)? And how deep is the pantry front to back (pantry door to pantry back wall)?

Wow! You're fast! And, photoshop skills are not bad at all!
I'm liking this suggestion actually....

It's about 38 inches wide (at widest part) and 46.5 inches deep.

Pics attached....

If there's room, I still think the fridge might work well like this. I swapped the buffet and banquette...and added cookbook storage at the end of the range wall. Now that I see that window, I changed the small pantry across from the fridge to a mudroom bench :)

Moving the fridge out of the kitchen is usually not an idea considered, but it is a great solution in this case.

Lavendars idea keeps it in the kitchen, but may be a much more expensive fix, since that whole wall is moved and rebuilt in another location. That solution also brings up a much more expensive problem which is now you have flooring issues since your room boundary moved. It also keeps the problem of door access on that right fridge door up against a wall. I like the idea of putting a small bench under the window where you already have your shoe tray.

A couple points about my suggested fridge placement:

First, the kitchen is small and tight, and the fridge would be just over the borderline, so geographically it's not far. It's not really going to feel all that odd, rather like you moved the fridge to a butler's pantry on the other side of a partition.

Second, it gets the damn elephant out of the bathroom. The fridge was just mucking up the whole flow of the kitchen. With it on the other side of the wall, it opens up a pretty nice space in which to move and in which to arrange your other kitchen elements. It cleans up your kitchen elements to get that fridge out the the kitchen proper, visually. It also cleans up your future vintage vibe you are gonna build back into your space. ; ) Put that clearly modern fridge in a visually inconspicuous place, I say.

The larger cased opening makes the kitchen seem a lot larger, too, visually. Now when you enter the kitchen, instead of seeing a closed door and jumble, you will see a large open corridor and that space, and a beautiful carved buffet (see below, keep reading) and a vintage arrangement on that window wall over the buffet.

This option is going to be one of the least expensive major fixes for the fridge. It will require tearing apart that wall a bit and the install of a longer header, then re-casing the opening. I'd think about spending a little money on a piece of marble or limestone threshold to bridge that joint between kitchen and porch floors. Probably not that expensive to get a scrap from a granite place. Totally cool if you use some sort of stone counter and the same material for the threshold, too. A real budget option is to use the pre-fab marble/limestone thresholds from a big box store, they are about 3 feet long and you could tile them long-wise to bridge the distance if need be.

===

Another idea:

See if it's possible to change the door swing on the door next to the cooktop so when it's swung open it is against the cooktop counter edge. This gets the door more out of the way, opens up that upper left corner better, and shields you from the hip busting counter corner, too. Three wins.

Now, consider building a small, square banquette in the corner that the pantry was in, behind the door. Move the buffet to the other wall. You want to SEE that buffet, be slammed with that visual, when you enter your gorgeous vintage space. Let that space scream vintage with that view. Use your banquette seats as storage benches with slide out cubbies or shelves, below. Put a wall unit against the top wall, but high so a person seated doesn't bang their head against it. If you need to reach something up high on it, you can merely stand on the banquette bench to get to it, built in ladder.

To the left of the built in closet thingy, put in a floor to ceiling built in pantry unit, but leave the bottom section open shelves so you can slide items over for access in that corner where the buffet blocks the corner. Above buffet level, put nice doors and store your cluttery stuff behind the doors.

Now, your buffet is a gorgeous view as you enter the kitchen, but it's placed asymmetrically under that window. Balance it out to the left of the window with some vintage art of the period, and maybe a vintage window treatment of some sort.

Also, I HIGHLY recommend if code allows putting plugmold type strips anywhere you possibly can along the cooktop or sink walls. They give you great flexibility, because you just never know where you might want to re-arrange something later, that you hadn't though of at first. The plugmolds can be out of sight visually up under wall cabinets. In a vintage house this is probably much cheaper to do than mess with outlets in the wall, if you need more plugs. If your budget doesn't allow for major electrical expenses, then think very carefully about how you want to use your kitchen's electric and where exactly electrical things will go, so you have that capability.

Also, you might be able to create a bit more storage above the fridge if you play your real estate right, not sure on the space available. You will need to be SMART about every cubic inch of space in a small vintage space, and plan for most things to be 3/4 scale except the most important elements - in your case the stove, fridge, sink, buffet. But for example the banquette is very tight, but enough for two to three people snugged together at most, if you use a stool as well as the bench.

Here is a link that might be useful: link to limestone threshold at big box, for example

This post was edited by beautybutdebtfree on Thu, Nov 13, 14 at 11:55

Maybe next somebody could tackle the complete lack of prep space.

You have 4 choices:
Narrower fridge
Narrower door
Narrower abutting cabinets (is that the DW? uh oh)
Move fridge location.
Casey

Better to scale. Well, possibly. I'm not clear where the back wall of the pantry coincides with, whether it's the front edge of the counter where the recess was bounded, or whether the back wall of the pantry actually is deeper, in line with the back wall of the kitchen. In that case, the fridge is too far forward in this rendering, and the doorway not expanded widely enough.

With the buffet mocked in.

This post was edited by beautybutdebtfree on Thu, Nov 13, 14 at 13:32

Marcolo- What do you suggest?

I think I would give up on the symmetry of centering the range on the chimney breast. Move the range left, back where it appears to be now. If it looks that terrible to have the range off center, maybe a false wall can be used in the corner to straighten things up. It's hard to tell, because we don't have any straight on pictures of the range.

As it is now, there's no way to access that distant counterspace in the corner.

HI Guys!

Sorry for the delay....I had to go to bed last night and have been in work meetings all morning.

Okay....so...I attached a pic of the kitchen bump-out...this is the backside of a built-in china cabinet. I am not removing this wall or china cabinet.

I hope this helps a bit. This is an old pic and BEFORE I demo'ed the kitchen a few months ago.

I "like" the idea from BBDF - basically, reversing the proposed frig plan, so it sits in the mudroom rather than facing the interior of the kitchen. I had thought of this myself but didn't think there was enough room...but, seeing the visual makes me think it's now an option.

While, it's a good option, but with the doors open....I'm wondering if it will be a tight squeeze? It's about 54 inches from the proposed location to the exterior door.

The Buffet:

The cabinet maker proposed centering the buffet on the wall next to window and adding flanking cabinets so it appeared like a built-in feature. I would put a counter top on it (marble or granite...) to make it look like one solid piece. I would this feature to look as though it is part of the overall cabinet design and counter.

Here's one other idea, if you can do without the seating and slide the buffet over just a bit.

I added a tall pantry on one side of the fridge and a counter on the other. At the end could be a plate rack, for extra storage. Just an idea :)

Actually, I love plate racks! :)

Me, too! I collect pictures because I want to have one in my new (to me) kitchen :)

How about angling the fridge into the kitchen if you have room.

Since you like the plate rack, I thought you might like this, too. I love this retro/cottage style :)

I do like that....it's very pretty!

Do you have a separate dining room? Did you want/need a place to sit in the kitchen? Can the buffet move to the dining room? Just thinking about some options....

As you consider the idea of putting the fridge in the laundry/pantry area: Will you find it a PITA to have the fridge on the "wrong" side of the kitchen doorway with the nearest counter in the kitchen? It will mean that you'll only be able to grab whatever you can easily hold in your hands or arms for each trip from fridge to kitchen, instead of holding the door open and grabbing everything you want and setting it down on a nearby counter. You wrote that you entertain often. Does this mean you get or make platters of food? How will you balance the platters or where will you set them down while you open or close the fridge door?

I'm not saying you shouldn't do it, I just want you to think of placement repercussions so that there aren't any "if only I'd known" thoughts later.

I agree with Marcolo; I really think you need to create more prep space between sink and DW. Would you be willing to swap sink with DW? It would mean that your sink won't be under the window and that the DW will be in the prep zone but it would give you more counter between sink and range.

If you're not willing to do that, then do as Marcolo suggested; forget trying to center the range on the bump-out, build out the area and move the range to the left. (This is the option I would choose but it's your kitchen, not mine.)

As it is now, you have several small chunks of counter, which is not nearly as useful as having at least one decent-sized section of counter.

I remember your earlier posts about your kitchen and trying to make the most of your space. Are you still planning to incorporate that small in-wall cabinet space?

btw, our fridge for our family of 3 is only 21 cu ft, smaller than any of the 33" fridges I linked to above. The only time I wished it were larger is at the holidays but it's cold enough outside then that I just store extra items - usually pies and such - in the garage. At the other end of the spectrum is my brother and SIL who are including 60" of fridge/freezer columns in the empty-nester home they are currently building. I don't understand the need for so much refrigeration for 2 people but each to their own. ;-) They don't understand my desire for a functioning hood (after 20+ yrs of a pop-up downdraft behind a gas cook top). They are getting a downdraft gas cook top - the kind with the downdraft in the center of the cook top. As I wrote, each to their own.

Anyhoo, realistically assess your refrigeration needs to see if a slightly narrower fridge will work for you. It would certainly be a better fit for your very modestly sized kitchen.

For all the time taking and posting pictures and trying to understand general layout and possibilities thru photos and conversation, a plan view with dimensions of kitchen and adjoining areas could have been made to cut to the chase - and might also get some of the designers who frequent here to invest some time to offer suggestions.

If a smaller refrig is considered, maybe down the road you could do a stack w/d and put an overflow refrig in the pantry.

The odd shaped kitchen looks like a rectangle to me, so I guess you mean how it is broken up by so many openings. I would consider closing a window if possible but understand that might not be possible or desirable for a number of reasons; certainly a last resort, but spending a fortune on an inadequate reno is not the best idea either. If you're going to do it, do it right kinda thing.

What are the room dimensions? The text is blurry here. Wondering what the current and/or original layouts were.

This post was edited by snookums2 on Fri, Nov 14, 14 at 11:48

"The Buffet:

The cabinet maker proposed centering the buffet on the wall next to window and adding flanking cabinets so it appeared like a built-in feature. I would put a counter top on it (marble or granite...) to make it look like one solid piece. I would this feature to look as though it is part of the overall cabinet design and counter."

This WOULD do your buffet justice, and look marvelous. A stone buffet top would enable the buffet surface to be used as auxillary counter, too, without worrying about a vintage wooden surface. And if you tied in the surface with the new counter top surface (and threshold strip ; ) ) - same honed marble, or granite, or whatever - it would unify your design, enlarge things visually, and just be cool. The downside is you don't get that much storage from two very narrow columns, and it is expensive storage per square foot as you have to build two complete cabinets.

Lavendar - love that picture. Do you have this picture in your collection? I just love the early century cottag-y kitchen. I think it's the homey shapes, the simple creamy finish on cabinets, the modest proportions, and the soft colors that appeal to me. I could just park myself right in there and be washed over with comfort in these spaces. A lot of the "today" designs just feel cold and sterile to me, and soul-less.

snookums2, I've linked to saintpfla's initial post in April about her kitchen. Scroll about half way down to see a drawing with dimensions. Several of us submitted floor plans for her after she did that.

I had forgotten this until reviewing the thread just now but several of us suggested a narrower fridge at that time, too.

saintpfla, I know you don't want to lose the built-in china hutch in your DR - and I totally get that, it's lovely - but would it be possible for it to be un-recessed? In other words, could your GC carefully remove it from its niche, rebuild the wall - gaining more kitchen space in the process - and then set the cabinet back in place against the new wall? It wouldn't be flush with the wall anymore but you'd retain its charm. And perhaps it would be possible to have a cab maker build side pieces that match so it appears flush across the wall. Does that make sense?

If that is possible, then these plans are also possible:

Plan A

I moved the range to the left, giving you more prep space between sink and range. I marked the open DW door and fridge door outlines in light gray; you will have door conflicts between these two appliances but since you're the only cook/only resident, that may not be an issue.

However, if you think it might be, then here are 2 more options:

I widened the window and moved the sink, a 30" single bowl (apron front would suit your kitchen well), towards the corner. I voided the cab base instead of opting for a blind corner cabinet. You gain large drawers, which is better storage anyhoo. As you see by the light gray outlines, you won't have door conflicts between DW and fridge anymore.

Your biggest counter section is to the right of the sink and it's generally preferable to have it between sink and range so I came up with Plan C.

I widened the window the other direction this time and swapped placement of DW and sink. It puts the sink MOL centered on that wall and centered on the window. You still have 31" of counter to the right of the sink but you have a larger stretch of counter between sink and range. It would be better if it was a straight run but that isn't possible, unfortunately.

The DW placement next to the corner means that when unloading the DW, you will have to put some items on the counter and close the DW door before you can put the items away in the cabs above and to the left of the DW. I suggest storing silverware, glasses and dishes to the right of the sink but I imagine that you'll store prep items, baking pans, etc to the left of the DW.

If you aren't willing or able to relocate the DR hutch, then consider Plan D:

It's basically Plan B but without the jog in the range wall removed. I added an open cab behind the extended wall, facing left. Use it for decorative storage, cook books, etc. Or you can add doors and make it pantry storage. It will be relatively narrow but every bit of storage will come in handy.

Oh, almost forgot to explain the "appliance garage" I added to one of the above plans. The space above it would be voided (behind the upper cabs) but you could make good use of this extra deep counter by turning it into a recessed appliance garage, like this:

[

[Traditional Kitchen[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/traditional-kitchen-ideas-phbr1-bp~t_709~s_2107) by Portland Kitchen & Bath Designers Robin Rigby Fisher CMKBD/CAPS

You have a modestly sized kitchen so I think scaling down the fridge and sink is wise.

Here is a link that might be useful: Small Arts & Crafts bungalow kitchen

LisaA -

Thank you so much for taking so much time to provide such detailed suggestions to me. I really appreciate it.

Getting a different frig is definitely on deck for consideration. If it's what makes the best design sense, then, I'll do it.

China Cabinet:
The built-in china cab is a non-negotiable change. It's one of the things I love about the house. When you enter the front door of my house, you pass large French doors and see the chine cabinet at the end of the room. It's an original architectural feature and don't want to change it.

BBDF:
I agree with you --- many of today's kitchen designs are too contemporary and sterile feeling. I'm trying to keep the integrity of the house architecture while adding functionality to the space. I don't want a historic home with a kitchen that doesn't fit the period.

I also, don't want to have a kitchen from 1906, either.... ;)

Perhaps I wasn't making myself clear. The china cabinet would stay in your home just rebuilt in place 10.5" into the DR from its current position, either with wall on either side of it (with void space in the corner) or with new complimentary units built to flank it. I am *not* advocating removing it from your home.

However it you really don't want to mess with it, then at least consider my Plan D to give you a larger section of counter between sink and range, the primary place for prep work.

Seems to me that the simplest, least expensive and most "true to the original kitchen" suggestions have been to:

1) align the stove with the left side of the bumpout to give more counter space between the stove and the sink run

2) get a smaller, single door refrigerator and place where you planned it. A single door does have more door storage than an equivalent French door. Unless you keep your frig packed with a ridiculous number of opened condiments etc (as I am guilty of doing) you will likely find that a 33" is plenty big enough (I have a 30" and would only like more freezer).

In that alcove I would put a down to the counter cabinet or appliance garage with an easy-reach corner wall cabinet in the top section. I hate the thought of voiding the corner in the base when you have so little storage; so I would be inclined to keep the sink centered and find another arrangement of drawers/corner access.

And, will that space formed by the right side of the frig and the end of the counter/original wall be accessible in any way?

I have a tiny kitchen that had (has?) ridiculous layout constraints, and we recessed the refrigerator into the laundry room along the lines of what you're trying to do. What made it work was the changeover of the door to a pocket door that slips right behind the frig. My brain isn't spatially oriented, so it's totally unclear to me if that would offer any help in your case, but I figured I'd throw it into the mix.

If you have to get a smaller refrigerator, there are tons of great options. Liebherr if you can swing it and check out Brooklyngalley's kitchen reveal for a look at how it fits into a small space. If not, I did a lot of hunting on this issue on the AJ Madison website and brands like Blomberg and Fagor seemed to make some slick looking models that got great reviews from users.

Finally, I noticed that the provocative idea of moving the built-in china cabinet has been broached and rejected (understandably so.) But no one has taken issue with the buffet. It's a beautiful piece, but if it were me, I'd find another place of honor in my home for it, and repurpose that space for the refrigerator. That should let you build in more useable prep space near the sink, and it would still enable you to have some seating in the kitchen, which seems to me a higher priority than the buffet. I originally was trying to hang on to a family piece in my kitchen and finally had to move it elsewhere. It was a totally worthwhile tradeoff.

Smalloldhouse - The first thing I thought of was a pocket door, too, and was surprised no one suggested it, but I got a little confused trying to follow everything to be able to figure whether it would fit and help - to the OP - I think the points about having a landing space next to the frig are critical. If losing a window would solve problems, could you add a skylight? anyway, good luck with your project!

If you do go with the smaller fridge as the solution, here is another idea, the Big Chill. It would look so great in that space, has the door swing you need, and would fit.

Here is a link that might be useful: Big chill retro fridge

Mock-up (I think you'd want the other door swing, but my crude photoshop skills aren't that good yet, so imagine...)

In soft green:

Two tone blue and white.

This is why you need to do elevations. Even if you get it all to fit, it might not lay out well aesthetically.

I think your kitchen has good potential and a lot of charm.

Looking at bbdf's mock-ups made me realize something: I forgot to add spacers between wall and cab for the cab next to the DW in Plan D. You'll lose at least 3 inches and perhaps as much as 5", depending on door and door handle depth from this cab. If you don't allow for door and door handle depth, you won't be able to open the drawers because they'll hit the fridge door or door handle. Same will be true if you do doors instead of drawers.

That means that the cab next to the DW in my Plan D could be as narrow as 15.5".

Looking back at the plan posted in your OP, it doesn't look like the drawing (created by the cab maker?) included spacers between wall and cab to allow for the fridge door and handles. That's a big uh-oh.

So I went back to bbdf's #7 option and one of LL's lay-out suggestion for fridge placement. I think it's the best solution for your kitchen and one you should revisit. Yes, it takes a bigger bite out of the budget but there are ways to accomplish this without breaking the budget. For instance, choose inexpensive backsplash tile and laminate or wood counters instead of stone (wood would look very true to your kitchen's age, IMO). You can always update finishes later but it's not nearly as easy to update lay-out and function later for minimal investment. Plus you can opt to do the full plan in stages as budget allows.

You can either opt for the wider opening and fridge location as bbdf drew up in her post of Wed, Nov 12, 14 at 23:01 or you can remove the wall completely. You'll need to install a beam for either option but moving the doorway and recessing the fridge will require new headers so the cost difference may not be as great as you think to widen the entry or remove the wall completely. Widening the doorway or losing the wall will also open up the view to your backyard from your kitchen, which you only get through the one window now.

If you choose the lose the wall between kitchen and laundry area:

You gain 4.5" to use along the sink wall (I'm assuming based on the age of your home that it's 2x4 construction, not 2x6 construction). I butted the fridge up against the existing upper cabs (you plan on keeping them, right?). I allocated 39" of width for your existing 36" wide fridge and a surrounding cabinet. Depending on cab construction, that could change by an inch or so. In case you missed it, this plan allows you to keep your existing fridge, which is money you can put towards widening the opening or removing that wall.

With the fridge next to the sink run cabs, you don't lose cab storage between fridge and DW.

I added a cab with counter across from the fridge. I estimated its height, based on where the window sill is compared to the back door handle.

This could be as far as you take the plan for now, keeping existing W/D closet in place. Or you can remove the W/D closet, stack the W/D at the far end (I realize the ceiling slopes but unless it's lower than 6' 6", you should have room to stack the W/D units) and add a 30.5" wide pantry between W/D and fridge. This would give you loads of storage for broom, mop, kitty litter, pantry goods, small appliances, etc. Across from it, I added another 30" high counter above kitty litter pan alcove, dog feeding station, etc.

The W/D could be visible, as they are in this kitchen:

[

[Traditional Kitchen[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/traditional-kitchen-ideas-phbr1-bp~t_709~s_2107) by New Holland Kitchen & Bath Designers Rutt Regency Cabinetry

Or you can put them behind cab doors like they are in these two kitchens:

[

[Transitional Kitchen[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/transitional-kitchen-ideas-phbr1-bp~t_709~s_2112) by Ridgewood Architects & Building Designers TerraCotta Studio

Now you see it

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[Traditional Kitchen[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/traditional-kitchen-ideas-phbr1-bp~t_709~s_2107) by San Francisco Interior Designers & Decorators Amoroso Design
Now you don't

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[Traditional Kitchen[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/traditional-kitchen-ideas-phbr1-bp~t_709~s_2107) by San Francisco Interior Designers & Decorators Amoroso Design

I changed the small bistro table to a fold-down table attached to the wall. Fold it up when you need it, fold it out of the way when you don't. This will make accessing the buffet storage and side cabs much easier, plus the beauty of that buffet will no longer be blocked by a table.

This is the idea but not the execution of what I envision for your kitchen.

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[Eclectic Kitchen[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/eclectic-kitchen-ideas-phbr1-bp~t_709~s_2104) by Jersey City Design-Build Firms Brunelleschi Construction

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[Eclectic Kitchen[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/eclectic-kitchen-ideas-phbr1-bp~t_709~s_2104) by Jersey City Design-Build Firms Brunelleschi Construction

This style is more what I have in mind for your kitchen:

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[Traditional Spaces[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/traditional-home-design-ideas-phbr1-bp~s_2107) by Edina General Contractors John Kraemer & Sons

bmorepanic did something like this in her even-smaller-than-yours kitchen but I can't seem to find links to her old kitchen threads (her kitchen was finished several years ago) nor does her kitchen show up in the FKB. She still posts periodically so you could always give her a shout-out asking her to show you her table.

As with my Plan D, I moved the range to the left to give you more counter between sink and range. The upper cab to the left of the range would have hinges on the front (facing the kitchen) and side (facing the DR doorway) so that you can access items from either side. Shoot, I can't find the example of this that I had in mind on houzz right now. Pretty sure a GWer (maybe beekeeperswife) has done this so you could also ask for examples of this. Anyhoo, having it open on 2 sides means that you won't lose things in the back reaches of a fairly narrow cabinet. Or you can just have it open to the side and put a false panel on the front.

Oops, I forgot to note that the sink cab is 30". I think a 30" apron front sink would be period appropriate.

This post was edited by lisa_a on Mon, Nov 17, 14 at 12:59

Lisa,

Actually, your last picture above shows a great idea for a little dining surface, the half circle cantilevered off the wall via a support bracket, with a stool or two for seating. This is scaled similar to what would be in this space and would have the benefit of no table legs cluttering the floor real estate.

Saintpfl,

Here's an idea you may not have thought of. If you keep your buffet centered between the two narrow columns on that one wall, you could split the columns into two base cabinets and two wall cabinets, and have one piece of stone run the entire length wall to wall just like a counter, topping the two base cabinets and the buffet in one contiguous piece of stone. That would really make it look built in, and give a great zone for little things to de-clutter the extremely important counter work space: this side counter could house toaster, coffee maker, or other small appliances that would eat up your other regular counter.

I do see a very nice parking spot for a mixer in one of those extra deep pockets to the left or the right of the stove bump-out. I keep thinking there must be an awesome use for those two unique spaces.

SmallOldHouse: I see we are kindred spirits! ;)
Yes - you do understand the challenges!
I had not thought of a pocket door as I thought that would be too complicated to construct. Something to think about....

Lisa_A: wow -- these are great ideas! Thanks so much! I've printed your suggestions and pics out so I can review and share with a friend who is an architect who agreed to offer me some suggestions.

Stay tuned....

BBDF:
Those are really cute refrigs! I'm leaning more towards the normal frig than retro, however, you never know!

Also, I agree with you on the buffet....I want to create a built in space such as the one you described: "If you keep your buffet centered between the two narrow columns on that one wall, you could split the columns into two base cabinets and two wall cabinets,"

Update: yesterday, I met with the another KD company which I had mentioned. It was a waste of time. The only thing he wanted to do was sell me cabinets. He didn't want to help with the design and had expected me to have the plan. Over the phone, he said he could do that and had semi-custom cabinets.

Once he saw the space, he told me I should really go custom and not off the shelf or semi-custom as nothing will fit.

He wouldn't even give me a quote. Passed on the project.

I have had this happen multiple times now.

I think this project is too daunting for the KDs who only want to work with new construction/cookie-cutter kitchen shapes.

Thanks again to everyone for all of your time and opinions. I really appreciate all of your help very much. :)

You're welcome!

In case, my suggestion of wood counters was among the "great ideas" you liked, I'm posting images from GWers' traditional kitchens with wood counters.

Pirula's kitchen

She and her hubby did the cherry counters themselves for about $1000. In a 2012 thread, she posted, "American cherry treated with pure tung oil and citrus solvent from the Real Milk Paint company. Totally food safe, and like nails five years later, or is it six? I've reapplied every 12-18 months."

Jenswren's beech butcher block counters

Shelayne's IKEA beech butcher block counters

Trailrunner's teak counters

chloe_s_mom's oak butcher block counters

macybaby's IKEA oak butcher block counters

brickmanhouse's wood counters

The perimeter counters are IKEA Butcher Block, stained Black with India Ink and sealed with Waterlox. The island is KEA Butcher Block, sealed with Watco food safe butcher block sealer

A lot of GWers seal their wood counters with Waterlox (not food safe) to protect them but there are other options, including the 2 listed above. Search the threads I've linked to for more info, advice and images.

Here is a link that might be useful: GW threads on wood counters

Wow, love macybaby's cabinet unit. Kewl.

saintpfl - responded. Look for my user name and don't forget spam folder! ; )

This post was edited by beautybutdebtfree on Tue, Nov 18, 14 at 17:33

Go find two or three custom cabinet shops. Ask them to give you a referral to independent kitchen designers. You need one. These designer's will charge you for their time. But, you will get a plan that will allow you to go where ever you need for cabinets and appliances. This kind of designer will have lots of experience and not be a cabinet salesman.

If you have a plan, a stock cabinet company can provide stock cabinets, a custom shop can provide you with what you need, or you can use custom RTA (Ready to assemble cabinets).

That's what I just did. It took a few phone calls. I found a custom cabinet maker who was willing to provide me with a referral. Through this referral I found a qualified, experienced kitchen and bath designer who did a small amount of moonlighting from her day job. It was a condition of her employment that she was permitted to do side work.

Now, I have a good plan and I can go wherever I need to get my cabinets. I'm really thinking about good RTA's.

HomeChef59 has good advice. Based on your screen name, I made the assumption that you live in St. Petersburg, FL so I did a pro search on the NKBA (National Kitchen & Bath Association) website. See link below.

This is how I found my kitchen designer, a CMKBD (has 25 yrs of experience in kitchen & bath design). I found several possible KDs to work with via a search on NKBA, reviewed their portfolios via their websites, narrowed the list down based on that and then set up interviews with 2 KDs (I paid for their time, don't be surprised if you do, too). I didn't get past the 1st interview, though, because I felt that I'd found the right person to work with.

There are also design/build firms listed. This isn't a bad way to go either. If my hubby and I hadn't already found our GC (he had already remodeled 2 bathrooms for us, super great to work with), we might have considered that route instead.

Here is a link that might be useful: Kitchen Designers within 30 miles of St. Petersburg, FL