Were you still thinking of other options, such as moving the kitchen to another location? Switching with dining room, perhaps?

Honestly, if the traffic patterns can accommodate the change...I like the closet in entry and fridge wall. What I don't like is that the fridge is where the range should be, in relationship to the island. You'll have kids and other 'helpers' opening the fridge, right in front of your nice prep area.

Are there any other options? You said the kitchen window HAS to stay as is...anything else? Can any rooms 'wander' a bit? :)

A quick sketch...maybe it will give you an idea? I added steps down to the dining room (purple) and pantry/storage against the bathroom wall in the nook. If you don't need the counter space, you could put a pantry, wall oven or hutch on the other end of the sink run (to balance fridge). Just a few ideas :)

P.S. I moved to a new computer and managed to mess up my photo albums, so if you need any earlier pictures, I may still have them in photos. Let me know :)

We'd really like to keep the kitchen in its current location, LL.

The step down from the main house into the dining room addition is about 4". We've tossed around the idea of raising the dining room floor up to the level of the rest of the house, as well as vaulting the ceiling, since it is only one story and needs some ventilation work anyhow.

We also want to keep the kitchen window where it is. I'm wondering which spaces you are wondering about wandering?

Yes, we're loving the closet idea for the entry. It would be so useful, and then we wouldn't have to try to negotiate a mudroom between the garage and entryway.

I think you're having the same hesitation about the fridge across from the wide side of the island that I was.

I'm playing around with your sketch and I have a few questions:

-Were you thinking of putting the DW between the fridge and the sink? (We're leaning toward staying with one DW. Gains us more storage, and less jockeying trying to fill them both up. One runs more frequently, which = less dirty dishes coming out of the DW.)

-Do you think the stove needs to be centered where you have it, or can it have, say an 18" base on one side and a 30" on the other side?

-Is the distance from the fridge to the stove, 13', too far?

I'm so sorry to hear your pictures got messed up! : ( That's too bad. Hopefully you're enjoying your new computer, though.

Honestly, I think 13' is a little far, but then I'm not really in love with this plan. I like the big island, but the range is so far from the dining space.

I know you can't move the window (LOL) but I would do something like this...with prep sink across from range and fridge nearby. Then clean up area could be off by itself, but also serve as a second prep area, between range and main sink. Just an idea...tell DH sorry about the window :)

This is pretty fancy, but something like this, with windows on each side of range and sink on the other side of the L...

This post was edited by lavender_lass on Wed, Nov 12, 14 at 22:36

That's a beautiful kitchen. (I think I'd feel like I was cooking inside a fancy fireplace. ; )) DH does not want to change the windows. He chuckled when I read your note, but it didn't change his mind any.

Here's what I came up with after your first sketch. It doesn't have a lot of bells and whistles, but it seems to look balanced. I love the idea of the broom closet on the side of the fridge by the slider. That's a great spot for it.

One issue I had was where to put the dishes. I don't think they'll all fit in an 18" upper. I'd like the whole corner right of the sink for baking and pots, pans, etc. Dishes could go in the island but I think I'd go bonkers having kids trying to reach under me to get dishes to set the table while I was prepping on the island! So, I put a "hutch" where you had a bookshelf. In reality I'd like it to be counter height. Good idea or no?

This leaves us with finding a place to put the grain bins. DH said we should design storage stools for grains. (Whole grain stools, think they'd sell? LOL) I think the breakfast nook would feel too crowded with pantry cupboards along its length. But, the wall between the living room and entry isn't being utilized well at this point. Maybe we could work a little storage into there.

We used to live in a home with a similar floor plan. While doing some work on the entry and stairwell, we temporarily blocked off the door from entry to kitchen to keep dust from getting into the kitchen. We all hated it. It ruined the flow of the house. The living room felt more like a hallway than a comfortable and quieter portion of the house where one might go to read while others are watching TV in the family room. And a friend who came to visit said that it made the house seem unfriendly. I don't know if it really felt less friendly but it certainly felt less user-friendly.

Obviously, my advice is to find a way to layout your kitchen without closing off that doorway. I think, in the long run, you'll lose more than you're gaining.

You know, I really like this plan! The fridge is closer to the range and I like the uppers so much better.

I'm glad you like the broom cabinet...I only added the bookcase, so people wouldn't step up and down behind the person at the stool. It makes a better traffic pattern, IMHO, but the dish hutch is a great idea!

Tell your DH that my DH wouldn't move a new window, either! LOL Hope this helps and have a great evening!

By the way, we have 'tea' on the Conversation side of the Smaller Homes forum every Thursday. We just started up again, if you (or anyone else) want to stop by :)

As for the kitchen doorway, I would NOT want to see my kitchen as I walk in the front door. I have that now...and would much rather see my dining room!

This post was edited by lavender_lass on Wed, Nov 12, 14 at 23:20

Thank you for sharing your experiences, Funkycamper. After reading your post, I tacked up a doubled-up sheet in the doorway so we can test drive the doorway being closed off. We'll see how it goes! If someone can come up with a great plan with it open, I'm all eyes. Every plan that I've drawn with the doorway open feels like a rabbit tunnel going from the entry to the kitchen. : (

Thanks for the words of encouragement, Lavender. Thanks for the invite to "tea". It's snowing here this morning, so tea sounds lovely. Maybe I'll stop by later.

I was looking over our planning wall... (my drawings are beginning to cover the earth, LOL)

...and saw that I missed putting this one up on the thread yesterday:

Is this better or worse than the one I put up late last night?

I like the big panty plan.

I come up with other alternatives similar to that, but I'm not sure if you'll want to face a wall while prepping or if stairs would allow an opening to pantry or entry hall on the other side.

Here, I moved the range to the DR wall.

Same, with a smaller pantry, but an opening to the entry hall,(maybe, just about 30" wide).I don't know if arched doorways can help with the stairs above or go with the other parts of the house.

The last one has an L pantry.

Hi Sena. Those are some interesting options. Thank you for drawing them up.

To elaborate on the alcove between the kitchen and entry, we have 56" from the right hand wall to where the stairs dip down to doorway height. Right now, the doorway fills 32" of that 56" space. We could do a walk-through pantry with storage under the stairs on the left, and approx. 1' deep storage on the right, placing a 36" doorway between the two. It would be like a 36" hallway through there, though. : (

We have our fridge hanging out in the under-stairs space right now, which leaves a 42" wide hallway, and it still feels claustrophobic to me. I'm not sure if it's the actual width, or the black fridge + dark brown cupboards behind the fridge + dark paneling with brooms hanging on it that makes me dislike it so.

No, maybe it's more than that. This little spot was one that bugged me even when we went through the house before we bought it. I felt like it was just a dreary black hole of wasted space even then.

I think this is very similar to Sena's first plan (great minds! LOL) but I would think about having a 'view' to the dining room. Maybe a higher hood and glass uppers (see through?) or just open.

This would give you 'eyes' on the kids and still let light through to the kitchen.

Oh, and the pantry door is flush with the rest of that counter...so you have a U-shape pantry with lots of storage.

Have fun...and maybe 'see' you at tea later :)

This is my picture for the day...I love plate racks! Maybe you can find room for one?

I wouldn't want to close off the entry to the kitchen from there. It would make the rest of the house feel too disconnected.

I don't know the history, but did you look at something like the below?

BTW what is under the stairs? Can you add built in drawers under the stairs for storage in the entry?

Lyfia, your sketch is very similar to an earlier iteration. : )

The stairs to the basement are under the the stairs in the entry. (There is a man door to the basement on the outside of the house that we plan to enclose into the garage when we put it up.) So no, no drawers can go into the underside of the stairs in that location.

I've been thinking about what Funkycamper said last night. And Lyfia (and others) about the entry. While I really think a closet would be a great feature....along with a bigger pantry, I can also see why the entry door would be handy.

Since you're going up and down stairs for the bedrooms, it might be better to have the kids be able to go right to the kitchen. I was thinking only of the front door, but do you really want kids going through the living room...constantly? :)

Here's a smaller pantry, but easier access. I also like that with this plan you see the back of the stools and the range (maybe the dining room window) when you come into the kitchen!

And while your window is much larger...I really like this kitchen! More my style than the fancy ones, I posted above :)

Aw, those shelves are cute, Lavender. The first place we lived after we married had shelves like that. I loved them! I remember putting some tea pots and plants on them. They were very happy. : )

I drew up your sketch. I'm not sure how to "zone" it. Baking to the right of the sink? Or would that be the snack and sandwich center?

I should mention that at 5' 4", I can walk under the landing of the stairs. If I was any taller, I don't think I could do it without hitting my head. Should I extend the pantry all the way under the landing, even if only for less frequently used stuff?

The thing I'm hesitating about with this plan is that it's a lot of work of moving the heat run for a gain of an opening of the same size that we would have had if we did a layout similar to what Lyfia drew (without having to move the heat run at all.)

Here are a couple of inspiration shots.

The first one is similar to Lyfia's which is similar to what we had drawn up earlier. Where the windows are to the left of the stove would be a shallow pantry along the 6' wall.

[

[Craftsman Kitchen[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/craftsman-kitchen-ideas-phbr1-bp~t_709~s_2116) by Minneapolis General Contractors Full Circle Construction Inc.

I laughed when I saw my description of what I liked under this picture in my houzz album: "Everything." (Although the curtains are a bit more formal than I care to be.) This is similar to the layout that I felt was so balanced above. Just put the fridge where the double ovens are located. But...no entry connection...

[

[Traditional Kitchen[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/traditional-kitchen-ideas-phbr1-bp~t_709~s_2107) by Princeton Design-Build Firms Lasley Brahaney Architecture + Construction

Lastly, Catmom's kitchen dimensions are nearly identical to ours, so I've played around with her layout too. I hope she'll be ok with me sharing her picture. I've dissected her photos trying to get a feel for how this layout would work for our lives. Hmmm...where is her entry in relation to the kitchen? (It's a split level, right...how does that change the game?)

I find Chinese Grandma's old kitchen inspiring, too. I like her pantry setup pretty well. Um, I kinda like the whole place, actually. ; )

Here is a link that might be useful: Chinese Grandma's kitchen from 2010

Laughable- Where is the heat run?

You could make the pantry larger, but Grandma's pantry looks about like the smaller one...but bigger is often better. LOL

I always like a baking zone! Could you add a second oven...maybe with the OTR microwave above it?

How do you plan to use your island? Will it be for cooking prep? I just think an island works much better across from the range than next to it. Then you can rinse veggies, chop them and turn and drop them in the pot.

Did you see what Marcolo said in the other post? Ice, water, stone, fire. Ice, water, stone (or wood) fire. In other words, fridge, sink, counter, stove. And ideally, not too many steps in between :)

Heat run is between 51" and 64" on the wall between the family room and kitchen.

I picture using the island for both cooking and baking. I love Marcolo's posts, missed that one.

See, baking and cooking are so closely related in my mind that it's hard for me to imagine separating the two tasks from each other into two separate locations(Liriodendron has spoken often of this, too.)

Both require measuring cups and spoons. Both require things like flour and sugar. Making a blueberry cobbler? Get the blueberries from freezer (ice), put in pan on stove (fire), in between stirs while blueberries come to a boil, put together the cobbler (stone)...ummm...on the other side of the kitchen???? Run back, are the blueberries starting to boil yet? Give them another stir...trot trot, go dig out the pan that they'll be baked in, oh wait, get doughy goo off of hands (water), now get the baking pan, did I set the oven temp yet? Dodge a kid,a dog, answer the 5,247, 5,248 and 5,249th questions of the day, field a phone call (Another debt collector for the previous owner of our number?), divert a child that needs a good distraction, where was I in that recipe, now, where did I set the measuring spoons-are they over in the baking side of the kitchen or by the stove, or did you stick them in the dishwasher already, my child? LOL. See why I'd like to pivot and have everything on one side or other of the stove? Gah.

Now, if one of us is making a stir fry or some such supper while another person is making chocolate chip cookies, the plan with a separated baking area could work nicely. Maybe. ; )

See, that's how I cook. Biscuits on one side with meatloaf and potatoes on the other. I would love to have more than one oven! The one under the range for broiling, casseroles, meats, etc. and the other one for breads, muffins, cookies, now I'm getting hungry! LOL

What you really have to consider is how the kitchen works for YOU. In the other forum, you said your oldest child is 14, so I'm guessing you're having helpers in the kitchen, who are taking on more responsibilities. I would try to make sure you have a couple of prep areas and maybe a separate baking zone...with multiple measuring spoons, cups, etc. You're probably going to need them! :)

Laughable- We've had so many versions...this may have shown up before (LOL) but here's one more idea.

We keep the heat run where it is, but close off that doorway with the fridge. If you have 'cut out' windows on each side of the range, it will bring in the light and allow you to pass through dishes to the buffet (labeled hutch).

The main sink stays under the window (with dishwashers on either side if you need an extra one) and prep sink on the island. Now, the prep sink is opposite the range and fridge...making a great work triangle.

The clean up zone is obviously around the main sink and the baking area (or second baking area) is over by the wall oven and microwave. If you decide you can do without that top stool, it might be nice to 'splurge' and get a beverage fridge for that space...which would make it a snack and baking area. We can dream, can't we? :)

Left big pantry as it was...step down is on the other side of the fridge and I took out that wall, but small wall on side of fridge could hide the post/beam support. What do you think?

And something like this for range...but with openings rather than windows...and you'll probably want a hood.

Waaaaa! I just spent the last 15 minutes or so putting my thoughts down, clicked on the picture above, and lost everything I wrote.

I'll try again. I spent a good part of the day studying the plans we've all come up with so far for this kitchen. The winner counter space and storage wise was was the plan that LL drew with the little baking area over to the right of the kitchen sink.

That plan is really growing on me. I like the idea of fitting in an extra oven (which I think I'd stick under the counter.) There are times when we could use more than our current oven and a half. It just might be worth it to double up on utensils and ingredients in order to make it happen.

That's a cool kitchen, Lavender. I remember coming across the same one before and really liked it then. Do you happen to have the link to the lady's site that it belongs to? The kitchen looks so similarly sized to ours, and that has been a difficult thing to find. Seems like most kitchen pictures that I see are ginormous. I went through a couple of kitchen mags at the grocery store yesterday (BHG, Fine Homebuilding) and their featured kitchens were almost all bigger than ours, so their layouts weren't super helpful to me. (And I realize in reality ours is bigger than many.)

I'm reluctant to leave only the 1 35.5" hallway passage between the front of the house and the back dining area. We had a little intermission during our family movie night tonight. I had first dibs on the facilities! When I came out, there were 3 or 4 people waiting in line, all jammed in that hallway.

Right now we're eating all our meals in the breakfast room. It's cozy, but we're about ready to burst out of there! I can't imagine trying to get us all in and out of the dining room in the back with all the food and supplies (even with a pass through...) with just 1 passageway. It seems like traffic would flow so much better with 2 walkways.

My dad suggested a plan somewhat similar to the one LL just posted, except with a 42-48" passthrough down close to the hall. It drew up pretty nice, but again, had just one passage.

Hmmmmm...

I took the curtain back down today and rearranged a few things so that the walkway to the entry would be more open again. Namely, I moved all the broom and dustpan paraphernalia. 3 people here, plus my dad, all said not to close it off. Some of my kids really fussed at the idea of closing it off, too. Maybe open to the front door is best.