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ltllori

Hate my new countertops - need another opinion

LtlLori
9 years ago

We're going through a kitchen renovation and just had our counters installed... And I hate them. I don't like where the seam is and I don't think they did a good job of matching the pieces. One is not only darker but the veining is very different from the other piece. Our contractor claims he visited the shop and they are from the same slab. Would love some honest opinions on what you all think. Is this bad enough to pay out of pocket to get new counters installed?

Comments (70)

  • sahmmy_gw
    9 years ago

    I have to ask - why weren't you present at the templating? If you had been, you could have seen to it that the counters were cut and laid out the way you wanted. You said you had 2 slabs - that gives a lot more flexibility than people who only have 1 slab to figure out a way to arrange their counters the best.

  • ci_lantro
    9 years ago

    When you choose a natural stone that has a lot of color & pattern variation in it, like this one does...it's a really, really good idea to be present when the templates are laid out on the stone and the cutting pattern and seam placements are being decided. That's how you're going to get the results that please you most. And an understanding as to why it might not turn out exactly like the picture you had in your head.

    Aesthetically, I would hope for a better match between the seamed pieces. But w/o having been there, we don't know if that was possible.

    As far as fit goes, from what I can see in the pix, it looks like the fabricators did a great job. The stone snugs up to the wall beautifully.

    No one is going to mistake your stone for anything plastic.

    But, if you truly hate the counters, now is the time to make the change.

  • amykath
    9 years ago

    It is a beautiful stone and a lovely kitchen. No need to go and tear it out now. Live with it and see if you can get over it.

    MOST IMPORTANTLY, I would call the fabricators manager or better yet, owner or whomever is the highest up the chain you can get. Have them come to your house and ask if that seam is something they would want in their own home. I did this before when the laborers put carpet on our stairs and it was unacceptable. The owner came out and 100% agreed with me. I have no idea if this will work for you, but it is worth a try.

  • speaktodeek
    9 years ago

    For what it's worth: I look at your pictures, and I see what you mean. However, when I look at your countertops, what I SEE are two slabs of beautiful natural material. That they don't match perfectly only tells me that they are real and not man-made, and my eye doesn't even notice the "match" but rather right away starts to see what beautiful material that is. My mind automatically thinks the two shades are just parts of a natural slab of geology however many years in the making. To me, it looks more real and less plastic, and gorgeous. The workmanship is very nice, too. All I see is gorgeous NATURAL material, not failure to match perfectly, which is an un-natural constraint we artificially put on natural materials. Nature blends everything.

    The difference is soft, not jarring. The slabs in general have large variation and large texture, fairly evenly. In the picture from a distance, most observers wouldn't even notice the difference at the seam, because it is subtle and natural. On a slab with this type of differences in background shade and textures and veining, unless you purposely buy book-matched slabs and use digital photography to match the slabs, you will see some difference. Even in a book-matched slab, you have an artificial mirror image that is quite obvious and highlights the junction - in this case it would be asymmetrical relative to your sink placement and that might be objectionable. What you have is actually quite beautiful.

  • PRO
    Joseph Corlett, LLC
    9 years ago

    LtlLori:

    If you post a drawing with your top layout with dimensions and the sizes of your original slabs, I would be happy to see if it was even possible to cut them any other way. Mathematics can be cruel.

  • Vertise
    9 years ago

    Regardless, she should have been advised there was a problem, so she could decline for new slabs or another selection. Her house, her $4000.

    As bad on the business end as the workmanship end. Totally irresponsible, whatever the reason.

  • scrappy25
    9 years ago

    Gorgeous countertops and lovely kitchen.
    It's probably pretty hard to match shading across two distant areas in an uncut stone by eye. The vein matching and the seam look good to my untrained eye. I would be thrilled to buy a house with this kitchen and would not be bothered much by the shade difference.

    I paid 7.50 per sf ($430) for computer assisted templating where we moved the virtual cuts around on the slab until I approved the match. That extra cost also paid for the slab waste created by the process. I am really hoping that the computer colors were accurate on the 2 slabs because we matched the veins well and the shading as well as we could. I will know in another week.

  • sjhockeyfan325
    9 years ago

    Like others, I think the stone itself is beautiful. Unlike others I don't think the fabricator made a "mistake", he just did what he does, which is cut and fit stone. I don't think of fabricators as artists or designers and I think it's up to someone else (whether that's the homeowner or a KD) to layout the stone the way they want it if they don't want to be surprised/annoyed by the way the fabricator laid it out.

    I hope that once you put some "stuff" on your counters, you'll find that the slabs "blend" and the difference isn't so obvious.

  • Vertise
    9 years ago

    That's a valid point. All fabricator's are not artists and that never will be the case. But I don't think the aesthetics of layout is completely out of a fabricator's realm, frame of reference or responsibility, even if they are ones that see their job solely as machinists and not craftsmen or artisans. (Does not really make logical sense to me to separate the two, but surely sheer laborers go into the business or are left in charge of things). They still ought to know better and know enough to recognize a problem and stop the job until the right person makes a call - because the match is poor, as in this example. That much is not rocket science or, in this case, particularly subjective.

    As with any job, people need to be engaged with their work and proactive. As well as understand that, although they, personally, might think it is not that bad, a lot of customers would; and that customers would also expect much better work when they are investing thousands of dollars for a high end countertop. This outcome looks rather clueless to me.

    Whether it be the GC, KD or a shop that they know attends to addressing layout issues, one of these pros should have guided the customer through the process, setting up template time and approval. It just makes no sense - except that everyone is just in too much of a hurry to get the job DONE.

    I sure wish OldRyder would weigh in on this because I have read enough of his posts to believe he would not let this top out of his own shop.

  • ghostlyvision
    9 years ago

    If it were my kitchen I might contact the fabricator and see if he had a piece left over from one of the slabs the size spanning from the sink to the seam and see if it matched the tone better than what he did originally. Even a remnant with more similar coloration/veining would be better than doing nothing and being forever unhappy with them. Probably cost you some more but you wouldn't have to change out the whole job because of that one section.

  • LtlLori
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    @Trebruchet here is a photo of one of the slabs. I don't know the exact dimensions, but if I had to guess I'd say at least 8'x12'. The second slab was right behind it and tagged as being a sequential cut from the same block.

    Thanks again for everyone's input. It seems with the technology available today, they should have been able to plan the color and pattern better. I've challenged our GC to try again with the fabricator. He wasn't sure what he could do, but he's been fantastic up until now, so I believe he will do whatever he can. Stay tuned!

  • LtlLori
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Also, any thoughts on where the seam should be? Our GC was surprised to hear that we weren't happy with that. Seems like that's where he typically advises it to be. I've seen a 45 degree angle to the corner and some that are much closer to the corner. I feel like this is an awkward distance from the corner.

  • Vertise
    9 years ago

    It is an odd location, imo, although I was focused more on the blending. If it could blend nicely, with a good tight seam, I would probably go that route over a big tear out.

  • jellytoast
    9 years ago

    I agree that the seam placement looks awkward. IMO, if the seam had been located in the corner, the mismatch regarding color and pattern wouldn't be so obvious. My seam is located in the corner, though not cut diagonally. Two sisters who have granite have theirs cut the same way. All are quite inconspicuous. Why, I wonder, would your contractor typically advise that seams be located where they are more noticeable? What is his reasoning?

  • PRO
    Joseph Corlett, LLC
    9 years ago

    "Why, I wonder, would your contractor typically advise that seams be located where they are more noticeable? What is his reasoning?"

    This question can only be answered by a dimensional drawing of the kitchen layout and the slabs.

  • andyscott
    9 years ago

    Even though $4000 is a lot, is it a small or big % of the overall budget? Maybe the contractor can split the cost of just replacing the right corner.

    Ultimately, if it's going to bother you (but may not be noticeable to others when they look at the overall kitchen), I would just write off the extra cost as live and learn when remodeling.

  • dedtired
    9 years ago

    Definitely unacceptable, whether is cost $4K or $4. Stand up for yourself. It was their mistake.

  • Hydragea
    9 years ago

    You're right to complain.

  • jellytoast
    9 years ago

    "Why, I wonder, would your contractor typically advise that seams be located where they are more noticeable? What is his reasoning?"

    "This question can only be answered by a dimensional drawing of the kitchen layout and the slabs."

    I asked this question because the OP stated that her contractor TYPICALLY advises that seams be located like this, which leads me to believe that the seam location had less to do with her particular layout and more to do with the way he always does things.

  • Vertise
    9 years ago

    " I would just write off the extra cost as live and learn when remodeling."

    Um, I think that applies to the contractor ... not the customer. And he should have done his learning before starting his own business.

    I don't know what the overall budget has to do with anything.

  • desertsteph
    9 years ago

    "Um, I think that applies to the contractor ... not the customer. And he should have done his learning before starting his own business.

    I don't know what the overall budget has to do with anything"

    I agree. the gc needs to change his thinking and check something like this out with the home owner. The person he is working for... the one who will be paying him...

    he needs to get this fixed.

  • chinchette
    9 years ago

    We have a similar situation in our kitchen that was done 8 years ago. I was there for the templating, but the workers didn't do it as templated. Its only annoying at this point when I read a thread like this and I go up to it, and look at it. I have a tray right on that spot. The attention goes to other aspects of my kitchen that are aesthetic. Really nobody in my family ever thinks of it. But I know how you feel.

  • rwiegand
    9 years ago

    I think it actually looks OK and the seam will be un-noticed once you set a microwave or coffee machine on top of it. Sure not worth $4K to change.

    None of the fabricators we talked to would cut stone without sign-off on the templating from a responsible party. Is that a regional thing? It sure seems wise that the owner, architect, or KD should have to see and approve prior to cutting since matching up patterned material does not have a clearcut "right" way, even in the absence of physical constraints of size and layout. There's no way I'd spend $4K without looking at what I was buying. That said our fabricator had a great eye and showed us a couple different possibilities for matching and seam placement, either of which would have looked good-- but she insisted we make the choice.

  • jellytoast
    9 years ago

    "None of the fabricators we talked to would cut stone without sign-off on the templating from a responsible party."

    We signed off on ours. I wonder why this isn't a standard business practice. I'd certainly do it if I were in the countertops business. Unfortunately, many customers aren't aware that they should even be asking these questions or looking at layouts until it is too late.

  • mays802
    9 years ago

    I haven't read every response but I will share my 2 cents. I would complain. It is one thing for seams to not match up perfectly and it is another thing to have 2 different colored slabs trying to look like one counter. In the end, if you don't get anywhere they are still gorgeous and I love the color you chose. They will be beautiful. But...it pays to try and get it right and they didn't get it right.

  • specialgranny
    9 years ago

    One of the previous posters stated that they covered their seam with a tray. I say if you go that route, go out and splurge on something really beautiful. Something you love that you normally wouldn't get for yourself. I've done this before when things didn't turn out quite the way I wanted. Has a way of soothing the soul.

    That being said, I really don't think it looks bad. It shows you have something from nature, not something matchy matchy man-made.

  • doonie
    9 years ago

    Lori, I don't know that this will help you any, but I think your countertops are gorgeous! I would not hesitate to buy a house with your lovely kitchen in it. As some of the other posters have said, the seam indicates that it is natural stone. When you have a natural stone with a lot of variation in it, any seam will be noticeable. It's very difficult to eyeball a match in tone in the stone. When I see the slab photo, it does appear to be of one shade. When it's cut and abutted, then the variation becomes evident. In addition, the slab sizes limit how long/large counter runs can be. Geometry always rules. Hence the seams.

    The counter top is functional and lovely. If you are a cook, you will be using the kitchen to make meals and enjoy your family in. In the grand scheme of things, is the "seam" important? Seams don't bother me. And I am not sure of why there is so much angst over them. Like Trebruchet said, the mathematics of the slabs make seams a necessary reality. Picking a man-made uniform stone would make the counter appear seamless, but I don't think that's what you wanted.

    In the end, it's your kitchen and your money, so it's your decision what to do.

  • PRO
    Joseph Corlett, LLC
    9 years ago

    It's no secret I'm not a fan of marble countertops. The seam is going to be the least of your problems with these tops if looks are a priority. With all the etching and scratching coming, the seam will disappear.

  • ghostlyvision
    9 years ago

    That's a good point, Treb. lol

  • isabel98
    9 years ago

    I have a seam similar with a light and dark piece of quartzite but my seam is in the corner and since I bought 3 slabs from 3 different lots and was present to approve the layout, I knew it was going to be there. It's not apparent when looking at the entire kitchen but is very apparent when you look for it. Doesn't bother me; but I think it would if it were laid out with the seam off the corner. That's the worst of it; the mismatched stone is fine to me.

  • Vertise
    9 years ago

    I agree that a lot of the problem is that the seam location is odd and an abrupt change in the flow of material. If it had a seam at a more natural point, of sections, like running off the corner, it would look better. That area in the left leg part also looks like a light patch compared to that on the right of the corner. So might have blended better without that section, being the abutt point.

    All the accumulated patina is beautiful to many ;) Though the initial wearing in period of something new like this can also be difficult.

  • detroit_burb
    9 years ago

    seems with a slab that large they should have been able to do the entire L shape in one piece. I once interviewed several fabricators until I found one who would allow me to decide the exact layout and where I wanted the seams. He told me it would be a difficult job and install, but said he enjoyed a challenge. It was very well done, and he ended up pulling a piece and not finishing for another week because once it was installed he said he did not like the color match and did not want me even seeing it yet.

    Price had nothing to do with it, he came in right in the middle. It was more a desire to do craftsman work rather than installer work.

    He went out of business because it did not make him much money.

    C'est la vie.

  • jellytoast
    9 years ago

    "It was more a desire to do craftsman work rather than installer work. He went out of business because it did not make him much money."

    Many people would be happy to pay a higher price for superior quality work, myself included.

  • lazy_gardens
    9 years ago

    here is a photo of one of the slabs

    Looking at the right end of that slab, I see some natural color variation that is as great or greater than the variation at the seam. And looking at the whole kitchen picture it's barely noticeable.

    Depending on the counter sizes and shapes ... that may have been the best they could do without asking you to buy another slab.

  • Vertise
    9 years ago

    "that may have been the best they could do without asking you to buy another slab."

    One of the big points being made is that she wasn't asked what she wanted to do. The best they could do doesn't cut it, procedurally or in the final outcome.

  • User
    9 years ago

    Ltlori,
    Since my kitchen is practically identical to yours, I thought I would post a pic of how my countertop is cut.
    Remember, it's not the beautiful natural stone that you have.
    Look at how they cut it,
    src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v28/Butterfly09030/2014-11-19113449_zps01dd3563.jpg"; border="0" alt=" photo 2014-11-19113449_zps01dd3563.jpg"/>

  • ardcp
    9 years ago

    i too was really disappointed in my seam in my granite with lots of movement. my fabricator came to do the template and discussed where he recd the seam to be but when installed it looked so obvious!
    fast forward 4 months and i barely notice it any more. i think with time it will not stand out quite so much.
    the problem with gw is i have seen examples of granite with barely noticeable seams so that is what i expected. i am now of the mindset that they are the exception not the rule.
    if you rip it out and do over, what guarantee do you have that the next one will look better? that was my mindset for not complaining and btw one of my overhang is 3/4 and one is 1"!
    mine was not installed to gw standards for sure but it is better than some of the botch jobs i have seen. gw standards are very high so keep that in mind when reading comments. no offense to anyone here just that i did a ton of research and still ended up with a less than perfect install. not many people out there are a trebruchet or oldryder!

  • Vertise
    9 years ago

    Is that supposed to be a bad seam? Can we see further back because it looks darn good from there.

    I think people misconstrue that OP & supporters are demanding Michelangelo or something.

  • imageshark
    9 years ago

    It is a shame, the seam is noticeable, and I would be very unhappy with that result.

  • romy718
    9 years ago

    I have a friend with a similar situation (actually, much worse). The fabricator told her it was very unlikely another slab in that lot was available. She suspected he wasn't going to look for another slab & went to the stoneyard on her own, explained her dilemma & they found her another slab in the same lot.
    Might be worth a try.

  • andreak100
    9 years ago

    Your counters are lovely. And I suspect in time, it will become less of an issue for you. We have two seams in our kitchen - one in the location like yours...it's flawless. Sadly, it's the one that doesn't show up as much when you look across the kitchen.

    Our fabricator said that they don't like to do the corner seams because there's more area for issues lining up and that it typically shows more. It's what I was used to with formica countertops, so it wouldn't have occurred to me that they would do it differently until I started hanging out here and seeing how most seams are put in.

    I wish that our 2nd seam would have been as perfect as our first seam, but it's not. In terms of being level and tight, it is quite good, but the match leaves a lot to be desired. They didn't do the computer line up option (I wish that they did - there was only one fabricator in our area that did and I was leery about using them due to other possible issues that some people mentioned).

    All in all, I'm not sure that I would pursue it further - sometimes we wind up works off than we started. Regardless, good luck.

  • tomatofreak
    9 years ago

    I'm late to this discussion, but I understand how you feel. I only have laminate that I'm going to replace with laminate, but if someone installed it with a seam in the middle of a cupboard like that, I'd have a fit. (Please, no one tell me how different laminate fabrication is from marble; I know that. This is only about the seam.)

    How far does the countertop go in the other direction (to the left in your photo)? And how many seams are there? Perhaps by now, you've gotten some help from GC or fabricator. I hope so; I would not be happy, either.

  • Vertise
    9 years ago

    Any update?

  • LtlLori
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Just wanted to say thank you to everyone who replied to my thread! I talked to our GC and he made it right. We both travel during the week and so he thought he was doing us a favor by not involving us in the template phase of the counter tops. We picked out a new slab and this time we went with him to the fabricator to discuss how it should be cut. I am THRILLED with the outcome. We still have the natural beauty of the veining and color, but this time the base color of the two pieces match perfectly! The seam is in the same place, but it seems everyone has a different opinion of where it "should" be, so I'm just happy that the two pieces match. Thanks again!! Final photo below.

  • crl_
    9 years ago

    Glad to hear you are happy! Looks beautiful!

  • jerzeegirl
    9 years ago

    Your countertops are beautiful! Your persistence really has been rewarded. Btw, my seam is in exactly the same location as yours. The only other was to join the two pieces would be doing a corner miter which would be longer and more conspicuous as the shorter seam that you currently have.

  • Vertise
    9 years ago

    Bump for OldRyder to comment on the original fabrication.

    Glad you love your counters now! What a relief!

  • imageshark
    9 years ago

    It's better but still really noticeable.

  • lam702
    9 years ago

    I have no experience with stone counters, I have laminate but before I had them installed, I did speak to 2 or 3 counter top installers about where I wanted the seam. 2 preferred placing it in a very noticeable spot, 1 of them agreed with me on placement. He did a great job, its just the way I wanted it, barely noticeable. Never assume, discuss seams and everything else before installation and better yet, get it in writing.

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