Welcome to the group. You will be so happy you found this place. I was in the same place as you when I stumbled across GW (gardenweb) and I can honestly and unequivocally say my kitchen would not be what it is today without all the help and info garnered here.

If you think about it, you will realize food moves in a pattern through your kitchen:

From the garage
Into the fridge or pantry
To the sink
To the cooktop
to the people

If you can set up your kitchen to follow that pattern it will be most efficient. Can you switch the sink and cooktop/range? Also move your microwave if need be?

I can move ANYTHING at this point, except for the walls, as they are already framed.

I am so excited to find GW, but I'm realizing now that I have no clue what I am doing.

According to your pattern below, I'm doing okay other than my cooktop and sink. I will currently be able to go straight from the garage to the pantry (not shown). But then I suck at that point.

I liked the sink in the penninsula, so I can look out the windows in the LR and breakfast nook. The kithen opens into the LR and nook. However, I can definitely see changing that. I worried that those sitting at the counter would reach over with their tiny fingers and burn themselves on the cooktop.

Do you have recommendations as to where to move things? This is the original plan from the blueprint of the house. It might help more than what cabinet man came up with.

One more question - what do you think about getting rid of the doorway to the dining room (shown on the left side) and making the cabs go along that entire wall, essentially making a huge L? And taking out the "G" and making the penninsula into an island?

Is it awkward to walk around the wall to get to the dining room?

Before getting overwhelmed with all the info, options and choices here, I would recommend that you and your family sit down together and make some notes: (f you haven't already)

-What is your budget? What structural/non negotiable elements will eat into that budget?
-What is your main goal with your kitchen?
-What doesn't work in your current kitchen?
-What does work?
-What "feel" would you like the space to have?
-What is your style? (traditional, modern, eclectic, etc).
-What is the style of your house in general and adjacent rooms?
-What type of use does your kitchen get and what level of maintenance are you willing to live with for appliances, counters, floors, etc. (E.g. stainless takes more work to keep nice than white appliances, granite can stain more trouble than laminate, etc).
- Of all your desired changes, which are most important? Try to prioritize so you know where to scrimp and splurge.

It's so easy to get off track with all the info out there. Just make sure you're designing YOUR dream kitchen and not someone else's. :-)

Have fun!

It's a personal thing, KB, but since I have never trained myself to clean up as I go along, clean-up stuff piles up and I hate to work alongside/among it. So somewhat-separate areas for cleanup and prep seemed in order, if only to left and right of the sink.

That decision was locked in with the realization that significantly more of my time was spent in food preparation.

Since you have children, finding room for them to come help prep and come clean up seem in order.

Since food preparation is the fun and lengthy part for me, I decided prep deserved the nicest part of the kitchen, i.e., nicest and most convenient for me. Sad to say, for me that faces the TV, but you might like to be able to cast an easy scan up up see what your kids are up to, and maybe the TV too.

Then as LTC46 points out, the work flow. Plus your safety concerns. Plus, again, work centers on the stove and prep takes place between sink and stove. This all suggests to me within your current layout maybe putting the stove to the right of the door at the bottom. (As it is seems very dysfunctional to me--both out of the workstream AND across the traffic lane to the left--think water boiling on stove and being carried to sink).

Then continuing to develop a layout from there, presuming that door at the bottom has to stay where it is. ?

I think the biggest thing that I see is that the prep zones and cleanup zones cross eachother. Ideally, you want to arrange your sink so that on one side of it you have a prep zone (conveniently located to range and fridge) and the pullout trash and DW on the other side.

Are you open to the idea of moving your sink? If so, I suggest keeping the fridge where it originally was (close to the dinette), placing the sink where the DW is, and shifting the DW down towards the corner. Put the pullout trash next to the sink, either on the prep side, or inbetween the DW and sink depending on your preference. These changes will give you a distinct prep zone on the penninsula by the fridge and range, and it moves your dish zone closer to the upper cabinets where they can be stored. More importantly, with the separation of the prep and clean-up zones, you can have someone else put away disheswhile you prep and cook, and snackers get get to the fridge without getting underfoot.

Your revised fridge location is problematic in that it directs fridge traffic through your range-work zone. Also, putting the fridge next to a wall CAN mean you won't be able to open a door hinged on the wall side, so if you stay with that location, you may need to move or enlarge the doorway. I'd also consider your work habits. I like to visit when I prep, so a seating area opposite a prep counter and sink is a high priority for me.

So one option, starting from the original plan, is to put the sink where the DW is, scoot the DW further down, and leave the rest as drawn.

OR (and I'm liking this) - Move the cleanup sink and DW to the back wall where the range is now. Put a prep sink where the larger sink is shown and move your range down to the lower side of the right wall near the corner. That gives you a 'clockwise' work flow from fridge to landing zone, prep area, cooking zone and cleanup zone, and gives the cook a nice 'protected' yet open work area with great counterspace and a nice 'view'. No foot traffic at all through the work zone, and plenty of storage on the back wall.

This is what I had in mind:
{{gwi:1976910}}

Yes, Sweeby! I like this layout a lot and it has room to grow as the kids learn to cook as well.

I also don't like your new fridge position for the reasons others have stated. The original one may require a French door or be better with one?

I am loving Sweeby's plan. Distinctly divided work areas, and arranged so people won't be walking over and past each other too much. Looking at the first plan, I thought it looked like an smallish, ordinary builder's type kitchen in which 1 person would pretty much take up the whole space(no offense, I hope), but the same area 'lives' much bigger and will be more special with Sweeby's arrangement. I think you could have 3 workers and still not feel as crowded as 2 would in the original plan.

OOOOOH! I am LOVING the new layout. And thank you for showing me the pictures. I am VERY visual and have a hard time envisioning things without a picture. Which isn't a good thing when you are building a brand-new house!

Thank you for your input. I really appreciate it!

Would you leave the trash pullout in the same place, near the prep sink, or move it near the clean-up sink?

Would you keep the trash pullout near the prep or move it to the cleanup area?

I'd be inclined to put the trash between the DW and fridge so it would be handy to both the clean-up and prep areas.

Thank you for all of the feedback. I have updated my layout, but erased all of the previous arrangements. I'm just lost as to what width of drawers to use and where. I am a fan of the deep bottom drawers, but would like to have one rollout for my heavy baking dishes.

I have heard to definitely use 24" drawers or maybe even 36" for the shallow and not to use as many 12"-ers.

What is a typical sink width for a single bowl sink?

Trash pullout - I have read about mostly 12" and 18" Is one preferred over the other?

Spice pullout - I would love a 3" spice pullout, preferably on the bottom, next to the range, but I'm not sure if I have the space.

I'm sorry for the rambling. I might not be making sense. I obviously have a smaller kitchen and want to make the best decisions for it. I'm just confused and overwhelmed and need someone with a steady hand and a cool head to give me some advice.

Now that you have the basic design, it's time to analyze your storage needs in each zone. The results of that analysis will drive the size of your cabinets/drawers. (The following is a general write-up I've come up with...)
. . .

1. First, make a list of everything you plan to store in your kitchen (regardless of where it's stored now...kitchen, basement, dining room, etc.)
. . .

2. Then, determine where each of your zones will be (prep, cleanup, cooking, baking, storage, etc.)
. . .

3. Next, if you've already ordered your cabinets, then you will have to work with what you have.

....a. So, identify the storage potential in each zone and list them on a piece of paper with a section for each cabinet (base & upper) and one line per drawer or shelf in that cabinet. This includes your pantry for your "storage" zone.

....b. Take the two lists and, while imagining yourself working in each zone, put the dishes, tools, etc. that you will be using in cabinets in that zone. Fill in the lines in the cabinet list with these items.
. . .

4. If you're still in the design phase, you'll have the opportunity to plan your storage to meet your needs in each zone.

....a. Take your list and imagine yourself working in each zone.

....b. Go through the motions to determine the best locations for each item that will be used and stored in that zone (don't forget that you will probably have both upper and lower cabinets).

....c. Now that you know where to put the items, determine what the best way is to store those items (drawer, shelf, etc.) and what size (e.g., pots & pans work best in 30" or 36" drawers)

....d. Lastly, transfer what you've done to your design & tweak as necessary.
. . .

You should now have a well-thought out and highly functional kitchen!

This not only helps you to "see" how things will fit, but it also will help when you move back into the kitchen...you won't have to think about it, you'll be able to just put things away. It will also be a handy "map" for everyone to help find things the first few weeks w/o having to open every drawer or door!

Oh, and don't forget the Junk Drawer! Most people end up with one, so you may as well plan for it so you at least have control over where it's located!
. . .

Common Zones:
* Storage--pantry & refrigerator; tupperware, food, wraps & plastic bags, paper towels
* Preparation--sink & trash; utensils, measuring cups/spoons, mixing bowls, colander, jello molds, cutting boards, knives, cook books
* Cooking--cooktop/range & MW; utensils, pot holders, trivets, pots & pans, dishes & glasses, flatware, serving dishes (platters, bowls, etc.)
* Baking--ovens/range; utensils, pot holders, trivets, pots & pans, casserole dishes, roasting rack, cooling racks, cookie sheets, foils, rolling pin, cookie cutters, pizza stone, muffin tins
* Cleanup--sink & DW & trash; detergents, linens
* Eating--island/peninsula/table/nook/DR; table linens, placemats, napkins
* Utility--broom, dustpan, swifter, mop, cleaning supplies, cloths, flashlights, batteries, extension cords
* Message Center--phones, charging station, directories/phone books, calendar, desk supplies, dry erase board or chalkboard

Less Common Zones:
* Tea/Coffee Bar--coffeemaker; mugs, teas/coffees, sugar, teapot
* Pet Zone--feeding area; food, snacks

Small Appliances: Toaster, Stand and/or Hand Mixer, Blender, Breadmaker, Toaster Oven, Food Processor, Crockpot, Waffle Iron, Electric Skillet, Coffeemaker, Coffee Grinder, Ricer, Steamer

Potential Items: pots & pans, utensils, small appliances, linens, pot holders, trivets, dish detergents, "Tupperware", knives, pitchers, water bottles, vases, picnic supplies, cook books, etc.

Foods: Spices, Breads, Flours/Sugars, Teas/Coffees, Potatoes, Onions, Canned Goods, Dry Goods (rice, pasta, etc.), Cereals, Snacks

NOTE: If your ceiling or one or more of your walls is coming down, consider wiring for speakers, TV, Computer, etc.

Other questions:

Trash pullout: IMO, it depends on how big & how many trash cans. Some people put both a trash & and a recycle can in the same pullout or they want a big can--you'd probably need a bigger cabinet then. Or, you may want a small, single can--then a smaller cabinet will work OR, you might even be able to fit it under your sink if you like having it there.

I would also consider a foot pedal for hands-free opening of the pullout. Hele carries one for a rail-mounted and one for a base-mounted pullout. Others may also have one, I don't know.

Sink: Hmmm....I prefer a double-bowl, so I don't know if I can answer that. From what I remember, most people seem to have one in the 24" to 33" range. Hopefully, someone else will chime in on this topic.

Drawers: It depends. It is true that 12-inch or less drawers are not as useful since you lose space due to face frames and, in some cases, side-mounted glides. However, there are some cases where they are handy...check the Cabinet space around the rangetop thread, Alku05 has a narrower drawer bank next to her rangetop that seems very functional. In general, though, I would have to agree that your drawers should be in the 24" to 36" range for the most part. 36" works very well for pots & pans.

Spice Pullout: I wouldn't lose cabinet space just to get a 3" pullout. There are other ways to store spices...but that's only my opinion. OTOH, if you have to have 3" to 6" of filler b/c of design & cabinet constraints, then the spice/oils/etc. pullout is a great way to utilize what would otherwise be wasted space.

HTH!

Quick question - your plan is similar to one of the many I'm considering. How much room is there between the frig and counter opposite? Does anyone think placing the frig there creates a congestion issue? (When there's someone at the frig you can't get through). I've been thinking of putting ours opposite the middle of the U so that people can go around, but obviously this breaks the run up. Thoughts anyone?

Realistically, how often is there really an issue with an open refrigerator and someone trying to get by? Even if it happens, you don't leave the refrigerator open that long. If you do, you're wasting energy! (That's what I tell my kids!)

As to clearances, there should be at least 42" b/w the handle of the refrigerator and the edge of the peninsula's counter. 48" would probably be better and you might get away with 36" (which I am not recommending!)

A french door or side-by-side would be a better option in that location, but not essential.

Assuming it matches Sweeby's layout on 11/10, Kbmas' design has an excellent workflow...and the location of the refrigerator is part of what makes it so good.

(1) Food goes from refrigerator to prep sink to cooktop

(2) Food comes back from Dinette to peninsula counter to refrigerator

(3) Dirty dishes go from prep & cooking to cleanup sink

(4) Outsiders can access the refrigerator w/o interfering w/the work in the kitchen (prep/cook/cleanup)

(5) Refrigerator is readily accessible during meals (to get more milk, etc.)

HTH!

Okay, buehl, you are officially my "rock." Thank you for spelling it all out for me.

I'm off to make lists!

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