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vogt300

Which cabinets would you choose and why?

vogt300
12 years ago

Home Depot American Woodmark, all plywood, $10,000

Waypoint Living Spaces (same company as Am. Woodmark, sold by dealers), plywood ends, $12,000

Debut, all plywood, $10,000

Local cabinetmaker Wellsford, all particleboard frameless, $12,000 (their all plywood framed is $15,000)

Comments (26)

  • dseng
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Boxes are boxes, by and large. Whether all plywood or MDF or "particleboard", a cabinet box, once secured to the wall, is essentially identical to its brethren. The functional details - door and drawer construction, hardware components - drawer guides, hinges, etc, options, customizability , and sizing to fit your space are all more important. The frameless option may end up offering you considerable gains in usable space - especially in drawer space. The rail and stile space around each drawer can add up to quite a bit of "dead" space. Plywood vs particle board - follow the rule that your whole house depends on - keep the water where it belongs.

  • PeterH2
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Chatting to Leon at Scherr's cabinets the other day, he thinks that good quality 3/4" particle board is a really good choice for cabinets; plywood adds nothing of value in most situations. They sell a lot of plywood cabinets because that's what the market demands, not because it's what they believe customers actually need.

    FWIW, because it's such a personal decision, our current thinking is particleboard everywhere except the sink cab and the tall cab for the wall ovens (which weigh a lot). If this was a kitchen "for life" for us, I'd go with white interiors, but resale around here means we'll probably go with the faux woodgrain.

    We're also solidly in the frameless camp - you can never have too much storage space...

    I'm guessing our remodel will run about $70K, with high quality appliances, materials, etc. throughout; definitely not a budget job.

  • editionk
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I can only comment on American Woodmark -- I was all set to go with them and just couldn't make myself do it.

    I got sucked in by a promo they were running with lots of free things including free paint, hardware, trash, silverware divider, sink base and a store promo for several thousand off.

    Anyway, I kept going back to the showroom kitchens and inspecting the pullouts (pantry try rollouts, drawers, trash pullout, etc.) and over and over again I was *NOT* impressed. In no way did they seem solid to me. I checked a few showrooms and the L*we's verson of AmW (Shenandoah) and always walked away unhappy.

    In the end I went with another brand.

  • susanlynn2012
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Editionk, what brank did you end up going with since I am also impressed with all their freebies but I am still in love with the Shiloh beaded inset doors in the Polar or soft white finish so I am waiting for an installation quote from Home Depot before I make a decision. I felt the doors and drawers with the soft close was well made and what I liked was that you can add a piece to the door to have the middle piece be covered totally without the middle bar for cabinets over 36" wide. With the Shiloh, I will have the middle bar in two cabinets since I do not want to change the layout of my kitchen which would add more expenses. I like my dishwasher next to the sink and I do not want to move it to change the layout.

  • robbcs3
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    If the $2K is not a deal breaker than I would go with your local guy. Most folks don't need plywood cabinetry. The frameless is a better way to make a cabinet IMO. You will probably get better service from your local cabinet maker, and may be presented with size options you wont get with the other manufacturers noted.

  • colorfast
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I didn't care for Woodmark. For us, the local cabinetmaker was a great choice. Hopefully you have checked his references, and gotten to visit one of his completed kitchens.

    Also, if you go with a local cabinet maker, you could choose to put a few pieces in plywood (near the sink, as noted) or perhaps for some longer shelves that potentially might sag over time.

  • robbcs3
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    lynn2006:
    You may want to ask your salesperson again about removing the center stile on cabinets wider than 36". It's been my experience that most manufacturers wont allow this. Even if its not required for the box itself, it will prevent your shelves from sagging because they can put shelf clip/ peg on the back of the center stile.

  • Mercymygft
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I've always heard that particle board is just as strong plywood once attached to the wall and to each other. They are not just going to collapse on you. But we all think that more expensive is better.

    I guess for me I would want to go with the cabinet company that had the style/finish that I liked the best.

  • PeterH2
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "But we all think that more expensive is better."

    Ain't that the truth! :) The funny part is the way we want to get the most "expensive" stuff for the lowest price possible. Manufacturers, who are cunning as weasels, play on this by inflating the "minimum advertized price" but tacitly allowing dealers to give huge discounts, or running endless "special offers".

  • susanlynn2012
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    robbcs3, thanks for letting me know! Maybe my salesguy only thinks the middle piece could be removed in a greater than 36" wide cabinet.

    I wish the Shiloh store would also install so they could give me a total price since I like the off-white Polar color (darker than Linen and darker than BM Cloud White) better than Woodmark's off-white Linen (similar to Cloud White with a touch less yellow). I also love the inset doors better.

    I am also questioning myself about my need for off-white cabinets to brighten the room since the kitchen is open to a family room that has Brazilian Cherry floors and light walls (BM Bone White) and a beige leather Natuzzi sofa and recliner as well as a glass coffee table with modern cherry legs and two ends tables the same design from the House of Norway. The picture frame is a beaded bronze frame over the sofa with a Red Maple Tree and a pond with a bridge and other Japanese Garden trees for color (greens and orange and reds). I know Cherry cabinets or Maple stained an orange brown color would look great against the light floor tiles and will blend with my family room best but my brain keeps thinking an off-white will lighten up the interior townhouse kitchen.

  • mrsuggestion
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Assuming that you like a door style from each line, determine if you like full, partial, or no overlay design. If you like no overlay, then go frameless. Then determine if you need a lot of custom dimensions. If so, your local shop may be the best option. For semi-custom frameless, I have been looking at Ultracraft and Home Depot's Innermost. Both seem to give decent value and array of options. Good luck!

    Matt

  • editionk
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    After I nixed AmW I narrowed it down to two lines - Eudora (a newer frameless line made by Kith) and Mid Continent. In the end I went with Mid Continent (not installed yet).

    I'm getting Shaker style full overlay; the perimeter will be white painted maple with a black stained oak island.

    Mid Continent does soft close doors/drawers and full extension standard. Painted/glazed finishes are not upcharges either. My local shop offers choice of free hardware or credit toward other hardware (not sure I'll order from them though) as well as 5% credit toward my kids' school tuition.

    Some here call Mid Contient a value brand but I feel comfortable with it and prefer it over others in my price range.

    My price for Mid Continent (not counting the tuition credit) came in less than the AmW quote when they had all their promos.

    Feel free to email with any other questions. You can message me through the board :)

  • mrsuggestion
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Correction: for full overlay, choose frameless

  • GreenDesigns
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    American Woodmark is a good budget line, but 10K is a LOT of cabinets in American Woodmark, or else you have added in lots of other stuff. If you are looking at one of their higher priced doors like the Savannah and/or have added in lots of upgrades, you are better off moving to something like Kraftmaid with a lower priced door style. I don't care for the center stiles that AmWood has in most of their cabinets, and KM offers soft close drawers as a standard, not an upgrade. KM finishes aer better quality also, and that would be the biggest factor, especially if you are going for a stained finish over painted.

  • vogt300
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks for the feedback and giving us some new things to consider. I do lean more towards frameless, but all the cabinets that we were saw were framed. I just found out about the frameless option from the cabinetmaker a few days ago. The cabinetmaker said that particleboard is actually better than plywood for frameless cabinets. It's hard to know if particleboard quality is good or not just from the specs you get -- it seems like you just have to trust their word.

    GreenDesigns: yes we have a LOT of cabinets -- 24 I think. Our door choice is shaker style full overlay, pretty simple. AW's is a solid door though we would have been fine with a veneer center panel. We do want a 5-piece drawer front, so that makes it more expensive. What makes KM finish better than AW?

    editionk: our Midcontinent quote was higher than the others, about $14,000. I would have loved a tuition discount though.

    Debut is a great deal, but the stain options are limited.

    We don't want to get something more expensive because of a false sense that the quality is better, but we also don't want to go with the cheapest option to save a few dollars and be disappointed with the quality. The quotes are pretty close to each other...can we go wrong with any of these options?

  • mtpam2
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Just for your information, I have been pricing out American Woodmark at HD and soft close drawers are now standard, not an upgrade. However, you are right that they have the center stiles in all wall cabinets over 27". Not sure about the lowers, as I am planning for mostly drawers below.

    This is the first brand I have priced out and it is mostly being done by email, as I live a LONG way from any showrooms (about 340 miles). Going to look at the actual displays and cabinet samples Thanksgiving weekend when we go to our daughters.
    Vogt300 - I am guessing that you are looking at the Townsend collection. We have 19 cabinets, (2 reduced depth bases), 42" uppers, all-plywood. Estimate was about $9,000 for the Townsend. Sounds pretty close to yours. I agree, price is important, but want quality as well. This is tough!

  • susanlynn2012
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    ntpam2, which Townsend wood and which stain? I was going to go with the Cherry dark one and then decided on the Savannah and then decided I really wanted the shaker look since it is peaceful. Amazingly that is what my builder grade oak door style is similar to right now but my recessed door panel has more of a flat panel drawer and is partial overlay with a framed construction so all cabinets have that bar in the middle except for the pantry closet which I hate. Home Depot says they can put panel on the side of one door instead of the bar in the middle but someone is saying then the cabinet will not be stable.

    I really love the Shiloh Beaded inset door with the 5-piece drawer in the recessed panel look in the polar or soft white or the Kraftmaid Lexington but not sure if I would like the Alabaster or the seashell color or the Woodmark Townsend in maybe the Maple Auburn glaze door. I just wonder if my room will look too dark with the darker wood. I got a great price for the Woodmark Charlottesville with all the goodies and the installation estimators are coming tomorrow morning but I am now now sure of the Linen color as it looks so white and the Shiloh Polar that is white is darker than BM cloud white and to me I did not want to go lighter than BM Cloud White. Then I wonder if I should look at the Ikea Lidi that I am told is similar to BM Simply White so would be a little whiter than I think I want.

    OR.... maybe I should install my tiles, change the lighting, do my work, absorb all I have learn and then revisit if I want the cherry look or the off-white look.

    I did not price out the Townsend since I at first was only looking at the Cherry and the door price on the back was the same as the pretty but very busy Savannah.

    EditionK, which door style and stain or paint did you get with the Midcontinental?

  • mtpam2
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hi lynn2006. My estimate was for the Townsend maple, Mocha Glaze. However, I was also looking at the Charlottesville in the Linen, which I was told would be similar in cost. I need to decide if going with a white kitchen like I had, or switching to a stained kitchen. Will look at them both next weekend and try to see which appeals to me more.

  • editionk
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Vogt -- wow! I can't believe your Mid Continent quote was that much higher. Crazy.

    I did get 2 Mid Cont. quotes and one was higher than the other by about $1500 IIRC.

    lynn2006 -- I got a shaker style (Copenhagen, currently on a 10% discount through 12/31 I think). Perimeter is maple painted white and the island is oak stained Carbon (black). I preferred Cherry in carbon for the island, but didn't want to pay for it and I'm crossing my fingers that after the rest of the kitchen if finished the wood grain difference won't be a hang up for me.

  • mamadadapaige
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I wouldn't be afraid of particleboard. I'd almost rather have that unless I knew for sure that the plywood was American (or Canadian). I have heard of instances where the foreign plywood used to keep costs down contains voids of space as well as foreign insects (requiring houses to be fumigated) and mold.

    Is the particle 3/4"?

    I think the frameless is a better bet also just in terms of greater access to your stuff. Can the local cabinetmaker show you how he finishes off the front edges?... is it edgebanded or is it an 1/8" veneer (which I think is a more expensive but less common finishing option)?

  • susanlynn2012
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    editionk, the Mid Continental Copenhagen really looks nice. Where did you get the quote from? I like the Shaker style.

    mtpam2, I sent you a private email but you can reply here or there or both when you have time. I was wondering why you chose the Charlottesville in the Linen and not the Savannah in the Linen or the Redding in the Linen finish?

    I really like the Townsend and wish it came in a Cinnamon shade that would go with my Brazilian Cherry floors better or a Linen finish. I really wish they had a Polar finish a little darker than Linen but not as yellow as the glazed cream doors that the three solid maple collections come in.

    I really prefer the Shiloh beaded inset doors in the Polar color with the square recessed look but the price difference is starting to add up so I need to see the price of the installation via email to make up my mind since I am having tiles installed also as well as lighting and removing a soffit.

  • feldi
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Does anyone have Innermost cabinets from Home Depot? They look nice and the extra space available by the frameless design is very appealing to me. I like the recessed cabinet fronts but wonder if the quality is good with a "thinner" front panel. Is Innermost a good quality cabinet that won't hang all crooked off the hinges in a few months?

  • Jardiniere8
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Wow, Mochte. And wow again. I'm just starting to look at cabinetry for my kitchen remo and Googled Waypoint Living to come up with this forum. Thank you for providing your 2 cents (more like $100) worth of info re particleboard and center stiles.

    My local cabinet dealer sells Waypoint Living (aka Woodmark) and I like a lot of what they show in their showroom and in the brochures. But aesthetics aren't the only thing I'm interested in. The quality and durability is just as important.

    So, with the information you provided, I can march into the showroom and ask intelligent questions that will get (hopefully) honest answers. This woman trying to make kitchen remo decisions on her own sincerely thanks you.

  • sjhockeyfan325
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I think it would behoove you to do some more research before you buy into what mochte said. Search for posts by jakuvall and others.

  • jema025
    7 years ago

    Mochte is right. We had a water leak in our kitchen and it ruined the bottoms of our particle board cabinets. When that happens, you typically have to get your entire kitchen replaced unless your cabinets are newer and you can match the new bottom ones with your old top ones. When plywood gets wet, the water mitigation companies can dry out those cabinets so they don't need to be replaced. Don't want to replace your kitchen with no notice in the event of a water leak? Go with plywood. Pretty simple.