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casey_1234

Kitchen Remodel Cabinet and Island Suggestions!!

casey.1234
12 years ago

I am so glad I came across this website! Looking through older posts and getting insight on things that I hadn't thought of for our upcoming remodel has been very helpful. I was hoping to get some feedback on our current plans, especially in regards to the kitchen.

Our bottom floor "great room" encompasses the living room/entry way, dining room, and kitchen. Together, this rectangular space totals roughly 42 ft by 23 ft. Currently we have four structural columns that define the dining room. We planned on keeping the two remaining columns close to the kitchen to cut costs, and have tried to incorporate them into the island (See Floor Plans).

There is a fear that we are creating too large of a space between the counter space and island. If you consider the two posts as the "end" of the kitchen, the kitchen is roughly 11 ft x 24 ft. We have purchased a slab of granite for the island that has the dimensions (after taking into account for scraps) of 116 in. x 67 in. The problem is this - if you incorporate the posts with the 116 in. x 67 in. island, that leaves roughly 60 in. between the island and the counters along the wall. Is that too large of a space and if so, does anyone have any thoughts, insights or alternatives? Do you think it would be worth the cost to remove the remaining two columns considering we would have to cut costs elsewhere?

Also, the cabinetry along the wall is almost 20 feet and will be a mixture of closed and windowed cabinets, open shelving, etc. Is this too much cabinetry? We considered adding a window but the window would face a golf course and so it would have to be expensive unbreakable glass. Does anyone know of other alternatives for this space?

(note - in the attached first floor plan, we are dealing with a blank canvas. All cabinetry, flooring, built in desk, and the three french doors are all part of the remodel so any feedback is welcome.)

Comments (13)

  • Liz
    12 years ago

    For the space between the island and counter my cabinet guy said the standard is 36-42. We are went with 50" because we wanted to make a clear walkway to the pantry. Our main sink is on the island and our rangetop behind it (but offset). This area can be busy so we decided to make it wider. It is very similar to your sink/range set up. No one does anything standard anymore. What I would do if you are worried is draw it out on an open space with masking tape for a visual.

    Personally I don't think it is too much cabinetry. Having glass will open the space but if you can add a window I would. I love natural light. It makes a space feel warmer.

  • lisa_a
    12 years ago

    IMO, 60" is too wide an aisle. Are you measuring counter to counter or cabinet to cabinet? The former will be 3" less than the latter because of standard counter overhang (1.5") but, regardless, 60" is considered a very wide aisle. NKBA recommends 42" aisles for a one-cook kitchen and 48" aisles for a two cook kitchen. People do stray from these, as little as 36" (but generally only for one aisle, the rest are more generous) to as much as 54". I can't think of anyone here who has 60" aisles but that doesn't mean someone doesn't have aisles that wide.

    Tell us more about you, your family, how you cook, how you use your kitchen, and what your needs are. If you're not sure what type of info we'd like to know, see the New To Kitchens? Posting Pics? Read Me! thread linked below. Take the Sweeby Test (also found in the thread below), too.

    Do you plan to have seating at your island? If so, you may have left yourself short on aisle space for back to back seating at island and DR table. How wide is your DR table?

    With all that space (gobs and gobs of cabinetry and counter, wow!), why are you choosing a range and not a cook top and wall ovens? You could create a baking zone. You could also include a prep sink, creating a cooking zone and a clean-up zone. You've got lots of space and I think it could be used better than it seems to be at first glance.

    How will the seat at the top of the kitchen be used? Do you plan for a table there, too, or only a bench?

    Is that the garage below the kitchen? Is there access from garage to kitchen? I would think there would be but I can't see a door on the plan.

    Are those posts supporting posts?

    Here is a link that might be useful: New To Kitchens? Posting Pics? Read Me!

  • Mercymygft
    12 years ago

    I just took a measurement in my kitchen, and even though I don't have an island, I do have a peninsula across from my wall of cabinetry which is 84" from the wall and I do a lot of back and forth from the two...it's not that bad. I measured 60" from my sink/range wall and even though it is probably wider than the norm, I think it would be fine... it would definitely give you breathing room. So if you want to incorporate the columns into the island, I think it would look okay.

    It reminds me of this kitchen which I love. I don't think their aisle is 60" between but if they did have more space there, I don't think it would look any less beautiful!

    Here is a link that might be useful: Island with columns

  • casey.1234
    Original Author
    12 years ago

    I am so excited to get the feedback mentioned thus far.

    Lisa_a, I believe the 60" measurement was counter to counter. Our two options to reduce the alley would be to make the counter deeper along the wall or remove the load bearing posts so we can move the island closer to the counter.

    To give a little insight into our family, my husband and I purchased this house a couple of years ago hoping to remodel it and turn it into somewhere we would like to be for a very long time. We are both 30 and are hoping to start a family soon, so the space will need to evolve with our changing needs and hopefully an expanding family. I think it is important to note that we really see the kitchen being the heart of the house where we cook, hang out, and kids can one day do homework. We aren't necessarily always a two cook household, but my husband likes to be in the kitchen while I cook and does help out.

    We do plan to have seating along the island near the dining room. We have not purchased a dining room table yet (note - dining room table would not be formal). Before deciding on a dining room table, I want to see how everything feels with the new island and new built in seating in the bay area of the kitchen along with a breakfast table (not purchased yet either). I am afraid that it may seem like too many tables, so I want to see if the dining room space is better suited for another purpose at this point in our lives.

    In regards to the question about the range, I guess I like the look of a range and didn't consider other options. Is one generally preferred over the other either aesthetically or functionally? I think I've also neglected thinking about utilizing the space on the back wall for prep space because I don't like the idea of having my back to everyone while cooking. I think I am now realizing I may be missing out on some great opportunities.

    Also, Lisa_a, you asked about the location of the garage. The door to the garage is located next to the fridge by the pantry. The garage is the white box in the plans.

    And mercymygft, thanks for the link. That does look similar to our space, and helps me wrap my head around everything!

  • Liz
    12 years ago

    I just wanted to post a picture for you with columns incorporated in the island.

    Here is a link that might be useful: [Island with pillars[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/cole-valley-residence-center-of-attention-traditional-kitchen-san-francisco-phvw-vp~367486)

  • Buehl
    12 years ago

    Questions:
    Do the pantry & garage doors have to stay were they are?
    How great an impact on your overall budget would taking the columns out be?


    You say your slab is 116" x 67"...when it's finished off, I suspect you will lose an inch or so all around to make the sides even (maybe a 1/2" all around, depending on how evenly the slab was cut originally). That means your finished slab may only be 113" x 65" to 115" x 66".

    30" deep counters on the wall run would help.

    I also suggest considering moving the DW & sink to the wall, moving the range toward the refrigerator, and putting a prep sink in the island.

    This would move your Prep Zone to the island, make all your counterspace more useful, and make your space more functional for more than one person. If you're planning children, plan for them "helping" in the kitchen...both cooking & cleaning up...even if you're the only one doing these things now.

  • Buehl
    12 years ago

    Something like this...
    Move the cleanup sink and DW off the island
    Move the range toward the refrigerator
    Add a prep sink to the island
    Add a trash pullout in the island situated so it's easily accessible from the Prep Zone, Cooking Zone, and Cleanup Zone.
    Four seats at the island


    With the addition of a prep sink in the island (24" sink base cabinet), your primary Prep Zone is in the island...you can visit with family & friends while prepping. You also have a secondary Prep Zone b/w the range and cleanup sink.

    The Prep & Cooking Zones are separated from the Cleanup Zone and no tripping over an open DW door!

    With the Cleanup Zone (sink + DW) out of the island, the dirty dishes are no longer in the way of prepping and are no longer front & center on the focal point in the kitchen...the island!

    The sink/range counters are 30" deep. If it's in the budget & available in your cabinet line, I would get deeper base cabinets...28" would be ideal. If deeper base cabinets are not in the budget (or not available), standard depth base cabinets (24") can be pulled out from the wall 4.5" or so.

    Because the refrigerator doors must extend past the counters to open fully, the small run of counter to the right of the refrigerator is the standard depth of 25.5".

    The upper cabinets are all 15" deep.

    Since you have an abundance of counter space, you could even afford to lose some to an appliance garage in the corner.

    55" is still a wide aisle, but hopefully with the prep sink in the island as well as the cleanup sink only 4' away from the range, the aisle won't be too bad. On the plus side, you can have someone cleaning up, someone prepping at the island, someone prepping b/w the range and cleanup sink, and someone cooking...all at the same time with no one bumping into any one else. You could even have someone making a snack without getting underfoot.

    (this assumes the pantry & garage door cannot be moved, keeping the columns, and keeping your basic layout)


    Be sure, though, that if you go with this deep an island that you can reach across it to clean it. Can you reach at least 33"?

  • casey.1234
    Original Author
    12 years ago

    SunnyAlberta, I really like that kitchen you posted. I would love for our kitchen to turn out as beautiful as that one.

    Buchl, I am amazed at all your input. Thank you! I definitely see what you mean about moving the dishwasher and including two sinks. I think your layout provides a much more functional area. We plan to incorporate many of your suggested changes!

    In regards to the pantry (located under the staircase), we plan to reduce the size of the pantry in order to create the desk nook under the stairs. We had toyed with moving the pantry but thought that it's current position might be the best spot. And we never thought to move the garage door. I am curious as to why you ask.

    In regards to the two remaining posts - We are waiting to get back the entire budget (we are remodeling other portions of the house) before we decide to remove the remaining two posts. Our structural engineer roughly gestimated the removal of those two posts would be around $3,000.

  • Buehl
    12 years ago

    Regarding Pantry & Garage Door...

    I was thinking... Eliminate the pantry in that location
    Move the garage door to where the pantry is/was
    Then, move the refrigerator to where the current garage door is
    Create a new pantry (floor to ceiling) that uses the length b/w the corner and the refrigerator something like this...


    Or, like this...


    There is one issue with both of these, though...the refrigerator. It has no landing space within 48" of it. The island would be the ideal landing space b/c that's the Prep Zone and where most food taken from the refrigerator goes...but the island is limited in size by the size of the slab that you have already purchased.

    You might consider taking 18" to 24" from the above pantry for a cabinet & counter for the ref landing space...


    It's late and I need to get to bed...maybe others can chime in...

  • casey.1234
    Original Author
    12 years ago

    Although moving the garage door and pantry would bring new options, the pantry is under the staircase and I don't think that we could get the door to the garage in that area before the ceiling starts to decline.

  • jeri
    12 years ago

    I've not read every response - so forgive me if this is not appropriate!

    We just installed our counter in the laundry room. Because it will cover the washer and dryer, it is much deeper than normal kitchen counters. I love the extra depth! I would love to have counters in my kitchen that were as deep as these. IMO, you can have your normal counter stuff sitting out (mixers, blenders, coffee machines, etc) and still have plenty of room in front of these items for prepping food. Also, when prepping food, it would be great to have the extra space behind the chopping board for the various bowls, spices, measuring things, etc to sit - as opposed to being on the sides taking up more space and being less handy.

    So definitely consider a deeper counter. Remember, the cabinets do not have to be deeper to get the extra benefit of a deeper counter - so no extra cost necessary there. And there will be lots of space behind this kind of setup for running pipes, electricity, what ever might be needed!

  • lisa_a
    12 years ago

    I'm concerned about your clearances between island and DR table and island and breakfast nook table. You should allow for 44" aisles with seating on one side and aim for 60" aisles for back to back seating.

    I can't tell how deep the jog is in the built-in bench in your kitchen so I'm going to guess and add 4" to the 61" dimension. If you go with a 36" wide table - which is narrow but doable for a breakfast nook - that overlaps the bench by 4" (4"-5" is recommended overhang) you'll only have 25" between table and counter. Much too tight! Either you need to ditch the idea of a table for the bench or you need to reduce the island's length.

    I can't tell where the end point is for the 12'8" DR width measurement, whether it's to the near side or far side of the support post so I'll assume it's to the near side. If you purchase a 42" wide table (a fairly common width but they can be wider) and center it in the room, you'll have 55" (or perhaps a bit less, hard to tell by the drawings) between island and table. Much better than your breakfast nook clearance and perhaps doable. However, if that 12'8" measurement is to the far side of the post, you'll have less than optimal aisle for back to back seating.

    You have a large space so IMO, tables and aisles should be proportional to the kitchen and the space, not on the skimpy side. It will function better, too. I think you should consider reducing the length of the island and shifting it towards the perimeter counter to achieve that goal.

  • Buehl
    12 years ago

    I think the breakfast nook idea is a mistake in this situation. The column alone makes it difficult to have a table + seats in the bay window area and still have ample room to move around the table, chairs, and kitchen.

    Add the island and it becomes impossible, especially if the island must encompass the column near the bay (and it will probably have to b/c of needed clearances around the column if it's standalone).

    With a DR table and island seating so close, I do not see a need for another table...but maybe you do? What I do like, though, is the idea of a window seat in the bay. (I can see stretching out on a comfortable seat and reading a good book!)

    However, if you must have a third seating option in the kitchen, consider either making the bay window much deeper or getting rid of the columns and then moving the island toward the refrigerator end of the kitchen.

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