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catsam00

How do you create a flush valance on frameless cabinets

catsam00
15 years ago

Hello all - I requested that the valance under our cabinets be flush but the cabinet maker came up with this version below:

3 questions:

1) Is there a way to make frameless cabinets have a flush valance? I'm pretty certain I've seen this at Home Depot in their display kitchens. Some advise or picture would be appreciated.

2) Can I remove this completely or does it look unfinished?

3) What is the standard distance between the countertop and cabinet?

Comments (27)

  • momj47
    15 years ago

    I have the same 1 1/2" lightrail on my frameless cabinets, and I think it looks fine.

    I had a choice - if I wanted a "flush" lightrail, the bottom shelf would be installed 1 1/2" higher in the cabinet, which is a lot of lost space, in my opinion. I chose to have the lightrail added to the bottom of the cabinet. On the sides, it's flush with the side of the cabinet. I'm very happy with the look. No one, even me, notices it.

    You can certainly remove it, but if you have undercabinet lights, they'll show.

    The industry standard is 15 to 18" between the countertop and the bottom of the cabinet.

  • caryscott
    15 years ago

    Simple answer is yes but you will see the top of the valance when you open the doors - they use lttle "L" type mounting brackets on the back of the light valance so you won't see the hardware. However it could rub when doors are closed or he may feel he will need to drop it slightly (an 1\8 maybe) so that doesn't happen. it makes a lot more sense with face frame cabinets than frameless. What's the attraction?

    Somewhere around 18 inches but it can be more or less depending on your preference (watch out for under cabinet appliances - if you have a lot less than 18 they may not fit.

    You don't have to have one - lots of people don't. Yours looks a little chunky how tall is it? Maybe if it were narrower (shorter) it wouldn't bother you as much.

  • housefairy
    15 years ago

    What about some kind of molding as opposed to just a straight board. Something that kinds of curves back like the molding above the "arm" of the molding showing in the picture. Just reverse it under instead of out. And also would need to be bigger. Hope this makes sense.

  • momj47
    15 years ago

    A flush valance would have to be mounted to the door, or, as I noted, the bottom shelf of the cabinet can be installed an inch and a half, or more, higher in the cabinet. The door will still be full length and will cover the bottom of the cabinet, so the lightrail isn't visible when the door is shut.

    I assume yours is mounted flush to the front edge of the bottom of the cabinet?

    This was something that should have been discussed when you ordered your cabinets. Fortunately, my KD was pretty good about explaining things like this.

  • ccoombs1
    15 years ago

    I'll take a picture of mine when I get home. My cabinet guy made the doors about 1/4" shy of reaching the bottom edge of the cabinets so he could attach a piece of trim to the bottom edge of the cabinets and it would be flush with the bottom of the door. The crown is done the same way, so that the edge is flush (within 1/8") with the top edge of the doors. It looks VERY finished.

    You can sort of see it in this picture. the cabinet nearest in the shot is the one that goes over the refrig and he didn't put one on that cabinet.

  • lascatx
    15 years ago

    Mine is somewhat similar to the one above -- it angles back so that the line from the front of the cabinet continues back rather than straight down. Mine is also about an inch or just over and has a fair amount of detail rather than just a straight board.

  • catsam00
    Original Author
    15 years ago

    caryscott - my valance/lightrail is 2 1/4 inches high. I think it should be shorter. You also asked 'What's the attraction>?' I think that when the ligtrail is flush it gives it a finished /furniture type look. I also love the look of framed cabinets but did not have it in my budget.

    I would love to see more pictures of light rails from users of this board so I can show my cabinet maker what I'm looking for or any suggestions of how they can be modified.

    ccoombs1 - I love how your cabinets look. It definitely gives it a finished look.

  • Jodi_SoCal
    15 years ago

    We have frameless cabinets and a flush valance (light rail). I didn't even know that there were other options. My only stipulation was that the valance be simple.

    If you want me to take pictures on how it was attached, I will when I get home from work this evening.

    Jodi-

  • joann23456
    15 years ago

    Jodi - Yes, please take pictures. I love the way yours looks.

  • catsam00
    Original Author
    15 years ago

    Jodi - your kitchen looks great. If you can take a picture with the door opened then that would be great or just explain how the light rail was attached (ie. were the doors shorter than the box? etc. It looks so much more streamlined when the light rail is flush with the cabinets IMO.

  • catsam00
    Original Author
    15 years ago

    momj47 - your kitchen looks great. I think your light rail looks more subtle because it is shorter and you can't really notice that the lightrail is added to the bottom of the cabinet. I did specify to the cabinet maker that I wanted the ligtrail flush but I should have been more specific by showing him a picture. There were so many details to cover.

  • ccoombs1
    15 years ago

    As promised, here's a couple of close up shots of my light rail and how it is attached. There is only about an inch hanging down below the cabinets which should hide the lights well without taking an unnecessary amount of my undercabinet clearance.

  • caryscott
    15 years ago

    Fair enough. Like you I have seen it in Home Depot vignettes attached as I described - I stuck my head under to see what the light valance was made of to make sure it could be cut down. The product we are using comes with a 3 inch light rail and we are having it cut down - initially I thought 2 inches but I may go to 1.5 as our under cabinet xenons are only an inch deep.

  • catsam00
    Original Author
    15 years ago

    ccoombs1 - thanks for taking so many close ups for me. I wish I had thought of this before the kitchen installation was complete. I was thinking that the cabinet maker could cut down the existing valance by 3/4 of an inch and then add a light rail on top of the existing one so it is flush. Do you think this is possible?

  • ccoombs1
    15 years ago

    You are quite welcome! So basically you are thinking about putting a second light rail in front of the original one to make it look more finished? Yeah...I am sure that could be done. If your original light rail is attached to the bottom edge of the box, he could just attach the new one to that one, bringing it out flush with the bottoms of the doors. Mine is actually attached to the bottom front edge of the cabinet because my cabinet guy planned for this from the beginning and made the doors stop about 1/4" from the bottom edge. this gave him space to nail the trim strip. But it would work just as well putting a block of wood (in your case, your old light rail) or a small "L" bracket behind it so it can be attached.

  • joann23456
    15 years ago

    Caryscot - Isn't what Ccoombs1 has done exactly what you're describing, except that she's replaced the top part of the L-bracket with another piece of wood. Ccoombs1, is it at all possible that you could get a picture from the underside of your light bracket? It's the best look of any I've seen, and looks so finished. I'm planning to add custom doors to Ikea cabinets, and am wondering whether they could do the same sort of thing.

    Catsam - I'm sure you could do what you've described. I think you could cut down the original light rail pretty far, as you're only using it as a place to anchor the real light rail, the one that you want to show.

  • ccoombs1
    15 years ago

    Joann, I can when I get home from work but there really isn't much to see. the lights are not installed yet. Here's two sketches that might help. the first one shows how my trim is attached. The second shows the door that comes all the way down to the bottom edge of the cabinet like most frameless cabnets are built (including ikes). To attach a piece of trim to these is also very easy. You just add a block of wood to the bottom of the cabinet and then attach the trim to that. Same goes for adding crown to the top of the cabinet.


  • catsam00
    Original Author
    15 years ago

    thank you so much ccoombs1 for your drawing. That is very helpful. I will keep you posted on the outcome of this. This site is so great!!!

  • joann23456
    15 years ago

    Ccombs1 - Thanks so much, that helps a lot. I couldn't figure out quite what you were saying, but now I get it. I'm going to give your drawings to my carpenter so he can do the same thing. It's his first time with frameless cabinets.

    Thanks again.

  • ccoombs1
    15 years ago

    You are welcome....glad to help! It's amazing to me how nicely framless cabinets can be dressed up. You can save so much money and still get the nice finishing touches seen normally on full frame cabinets. Isn't my cabinet guy the greatest?

    Be sure to post pictures once you get it done!

    Cindy

  • catsam00
    Original Author
    15 years ago

    I spoke with our cabinet maker last night and he will push the light rail flush to the cabinets but said we should not shorten it because after we take into consideration the lighting underneath there is only 5/8 of an inch to play with and said it is not worth it to recut. The height of the light rail is 2 1/4 inches. Will this be ok once it is flush mounted to the cabinet? Here is a snapshot of the kitchen and I guess it mimics the moulding on top. Opinions please.

  • Jodi_SoCal
    15 years ago

    Catsam, I wasn't able to upload my light rail photos yesterday and I'm not certain you still need/want to see them but here they are:

    As requested, cabinet door open showing how the light rail/valance looks.


    Photo showing light rail and light strip. Shot looking up under cabinet.

    Jodi-

  • catsam00
    Original Author
    15 years ago

    jodi in so calif = thanks for the pictures. Can I ask you how high your ligt rail is? Also it looks like they made the cabinet box a little longer than the doors to clear when the door is shut.

  • caryscott
    15 years ago

    Yes it would be a lot like in diagram #2 except instead of a block of wood you would have a kind of "L" bracket fastened to the back of the light valance and then screwed into the floor of the cab. It's completely invisible. However in that diagram it sort of looks like the doors were planed on the bottom to avoid rubbing. However with 3 way adjustable hinges it wouldn't be hard to adjust them so they don't rub without changing the doors if you didn't have molding extending out over the doors as you do - if you adust the doors up will they rub against the molding?

    You can see in Jodi's how the theirs looks like they have about 1\8 piece on the moulding that is flush with the cabinet before the moulding comes forward for the valance to allow the doors to swing freely. Your installer can do that just like in diagram #2 except valance won't be flush with the block of wood behind it will be down an 1\8 of an inch.

    Having seen the full view of your cabs I like the height it seems in proportion to your molding. Given the use of the end panels I can see why you want the light valance brought forward (bit of a faux inset look). I think if you went much shorter it might look a little puny.

  • Jodi_SoCal
    15 years ago

    Catsam, our light rail is 1.25" high. I'm not sure I understand your "made the cabinet box a little longer" comment.

    Jodi-

  • catsam00
    Original Author
    15 years ago

    jodi in so calif - from the pictures it looks like the cabinet box is slightly larger than the door so that it doesn't rub against the light rail. This is done because over time doors can drop slightly.