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hcharnock

Looking for kitchen layout ideas, from scratch!!

hcharnock
9 years ago

Hi there everyone! I am new to posting on this site, however I am pretty experienced at all kinds of remodeling and plan to lurk around and see where I can offer help around here.

With that said, we have been remodeling our 1920s home one room at a time. I do most of the work myself and moving windows, plumbing, electrical is not a problem.

We are currently working on our kitchen. So far, we have torn down two major walls. One of them was load bearing, thus the reason for the beam on the drawing.

We are a family of six! We have four children ages 7-13.

We do not have a separate dining area. Currently we have a dining room table and two small buffet tables that flank the family room doorway. Our design needs to incorporate space for a dining room table, as we love to eat meals together around the table.

We would love to incorporate an island, primarily for the counter and storage space. With a family of six, counter space is at a premium. I strongly believe in teaching children to cook and they are often in or about the kitchen. We want the kitchen to be the heart of our home.

Necessary fixtures would be refrigerator, stove, oven, microwave, sink and dishwasher. I would love an espresso/coffee station. Our current refrigerator is a ss LG french door with a bottom freezer. It is 36 inches wide by 32 inches deep.

A couple of unique things about our kitchen. The chimney and hvac duct in the drawing are immovable. We are currently planning on moving the doorway to the basement to be opening more into what is now our dining area, as you can see in the drawings. Also, there is a 1 foot bump in on the exterior wall. We are not sure how to work around this.

I would welcome any possible ideas for kitchen layout with a grateful heart. Thanks to one and all.

Comments (35)

  • Jillius
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    These are excellent floor plans. Could you please also post a floor plan of the whole floor this is on?

  • sjhockeyfan325
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I just wanted to add that I was thinking the same thing - you'll get a lot of help/ideas with such great floor plans!

  • hcharnock
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Okay, finally ready to post the next layout.

    First off, thank you for the compliments on the layouts!

    Here's the whole first floor.

    One thing I should mention: the window that is near the door at the back of the kitchen looks out on the backyard. I love the view. This window could be replaced with something higher and bigger. The other window that is on the right side of my sketch looks at the neighbors house, which is quite literally approx. 10 feet away from that window. I would not mind getting rid of that window entirely and maybe having a high bank of windows to bring in natural light? not sure. These are all just ideas in my head right now.

    Thanks again for any help that is given.

  • hcharnock
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    okay, from everything I read on here, photos are good, so I'm going to add some photos of this kitchen and you'll be able to see better what we're actually working with here! Keep in mind that we've already done a lot of work and two major walls have been taken down. It used to be a tiny galley kitchen with a swinging door, and a separate backroom area.

  • Jillius
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Are the sunroom and the kitchen back door both off the deck? If so, why do you come in through the sunroom instead of through the kitchen? Seems as if the former is quite a roundabout trek if you are coming in with groceries that need to be put away in the kitchen.

  • hcharnock
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    If I have groceries I come through the kitchen. The sunroom functions as the main mudroom area and is the dumping ground for shoes, papers, backpacks, coats, etc for our family of six. I got tired fast of having all that stuff coming through the kitchen door. So now, we use the kitchen door for bathroom usage when spending time outdoors and for putting away groceries and such.

  • ControlfreakECS
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Not sure why you aren't getting any responses. The idea I keep coming back to is a "U" shape that extends from the 87" wall to under a new window looking over the backyard. Move that window to the left and just run extra deep cabinets in the bump-out area? IDK if that will work 12" extra depth may be too much. The beam also creates a natural separation where you really don't want one.

    Maybe it would get creative juices flowing if you posted an idea that you have in mind for the space. How do you see it being used? Where do you imagine dining? cooking?

  • sena01
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Here's one I come up with.

    Island is 48x78. Maybe it can be longer, but I'm not clear about the chimney area. MW can be in the island.The uppers near the main sink can reach the counter and can partly be deeper than 12". I think you can use the basement stair landing for some shallow shelves or cab for storage.

  • hcharnock
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Oh! It's so exciting to see any kind of layout at all going on for this space. Thank you! That's very much like what we had in mind as far as a bigger window on that back wall with a sink and dw directly under it.

    The bump out is actually opposite from how you have it pictured here, but that could be beneficial for keeping the refrigerator set back farther if we were to stay with our deep fridge. The door around the corner is also what I am planning on doing.

    One of the things that bothers me the most about our current set up add it is, is the wide path that we have to take from kitchen to family room to get through the doorway. We have contemplated getting a round table that seats six for the space instead. It would have to have an extension for when we have company. Not sure how practical that is though as we often have extra people here, mostly friends of my teenager. I expect that to become even more frequent as my kids get older.

  • hcharnock
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Also, sena01, is the bottom of that image missing on purpose? Just want to make sure.

  • sena01
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    More pics.

    With a round dining table (48" diameter). I hope I got the measurements right this time.

    (edited as some measurements didn't show up.)

    With rectangle table (36x60)

    Hope that helps.

    This post was edited by sena01 on Wed, Nov 12, 14 at 14:09

  • hcharnock
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Yes, that does help!

    It's actually super similar to what we were thinking, but I don't know a lot about kitchen workflow yet, so I wasn't sure if it was a valid idea or not.

    Thank you!

  • Jillius
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Could you please add the layout of the bathroom? (Where the toilet and sink and stuff are.). Is it already remodeled, or are you planning some changes to the bathroom too?

  • hcharnock
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Okay, Jillius, here is the bathroom layout.

    We are not planning any changes in the bathroom, as we did already remodel it. However, it was a low dollar remodel and we are open to any ideas that you have. Thanks!

  • marcolo
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    That flow is reasonably efficient, though I'd try to solve for that hip banging corner. A false wall or something.

    However, it's important to pay attention to how this space will feel, and the current sense of space is not good. You have a '20s house, not a new build in Florida. Yet there are two rooms completely missing their corners, a random unrecessed beam asymmetrically hitting one side of the range, random jogs in walls, no clear delineation of floor space, and really, no true rooms.

    This is a problem. You can have a sense of openness in an old house without being so random and nihilistic about it.

  • speaktodeek
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Wouldn't it be better to place the prep sink in the middle of the island across from the cook top? Right now both sinks are very close and if you have two people working at them they are butt to butt. Also better to have the shortest possible path between cooktop and a sink, for boiling pots.

    Also a corner sink loses a landing zone on one side no matter which side you are standing at, on the corner. I think it's much better for sinks and cook tops to always have at least a foot of landing zone on both sides.

    I really like the space usage of this plan, though! Great thoughts!

    This post was edited by beautybutdebtfree on Wed, Nov 12, 14 at 17:54

  • hcharnock
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Beautybutdebtfree, those are great thoughts and I think I agree about the prep sink placement. Thank you.

    Marcolo, this is a 1920s house, however it was massively altered back in the seventies before we lived here. They added on a backroom area behind the kitchen, and the bathroom was also added on. They also added on the family room space, which is a huge 15x25 foot room, and the sunroom was added on as well. That said, there are many things that do not feel 1920s about this house.

    We did hire a contractor to put in the beam. The beam is supporting the exterior wall of the house and they felt that it could not be recessed for whatever reason. We are aware that it is not ideal. We feel that the spaces are a vast improvement from what they were though, now that they are opened up.

    Do you have any suggestions as to how we should improve the feel of the space?

  • speaktodeek
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I'm looking at that sky view and have a few more thoughts. I've had cabinets that came down to the counter top and I got rid of them. In the end, the extra cabinet space was not as important as the extra counter space. If you have any small appliances that you want to keep on the counter, there is currently no good place for them that is not in a landing zone - you don't want to clutter your landing zones with permanent objects taking up the zone. Mixer, coffee machine, etc. Don't forget you lose counter from the door swing of those cabinets that come down onto the counters as well as the part of the counters they cover. I think I'd replace that unit with wall cabinet at standard height, and take the extra counter space, in this kitchen.

    This post was edited by beautybutdebtfree on Wed, Nov 12, 14 at 18:28

  • hcharnock
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Yes. I agree with this as well. I think that sena01 actually brought them to the counter because it was thought that that was the section of wall that bumped out? It seemed to be a way of taking up the extra counter spaced from the extra deep counters. However that area comes in, not out, so I'd definitely keep the cabinets at standard height off counter.

  • marcolo
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hcharnock, I'm thinking about it. Small efforts would have a big payoff here. Like a false wall behind the range, but not the fridge. Plus, add back a cased opening. The opening could be quite large, so you don't really lose any flow. Just an example for the sake of argument, you could do an opening from the hvac vent to the far back wall between the door and window (although I might not like that particular strategy with one side facing a hallway). Or the old sunroom could get one to hide the beam. Make the washup area into a scullery, as it were.

  • hcharnock
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Marcolo, those are great ideas. Thank you! I especially like the idea of the false wall behind the range. That would help immensely to join the two spaces along that wall. I need to sketch out the cased opening ideas. I really enjoy hearing all these options.

  • Jillius
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Here we go.

    1) You mentioned the back of the house had the best view, so I based the whole kitchen on maximizing that. A big part of that was altering the bathroom to take up as little room on the back wall as possible so more of that back wall could be converted into windows and views for the kitchen. A half bath is generally all that is required on a floor without bedrooms, although I don't know how many showers/tubs you have on other floors.

    2) The other big driving force of my planning was your clear need for a larger dining room table that could seat more people, which required a larger space than was available where the table currently is.

    Since you had a living room on top of your ENORMOUS family room, and those rooms serve very similar functions, I felt some of that space could be better allotted to a dining room table that is actually big enough for your family plus guests.

    Without knowing which of your rooms -- living or family -- you are more amenable to reconfiguring, I've mocked up two suggestions:

    Suggestion #1 (my preference)

    Suggestion #2

    The difference is that Suggestion #1 widens the opening between the kitchen and family room and places an 8' x 4' dining table in the family room. That'll seat 8 people comfortable, and if you replaced chairs with benches, maybe you could squeeze in 10 people.

    I like this version particularly because the widened doorway between the kitchen and family room means that you have a view of the dining, the fireplace, and the sectional seating area while prepping on the kitchen island and if you turn around while working at the sink, prepping under the window, working at the stove, or working at the counter between the stove and fridge.

    I also like that the fireplace can now be enjoyed by all three -- kitchen, dining, and family room (the couch/armchair stuff).

    The doorway widening is not actually necessary for this plan to work, but it's an obvious improvement if you can swing it for all the reasons above.

    In Suggestion #2, your living room is now a dining room that seats 10 comfortably, a wide doorway has been added between the family room and new dining room, and the door to the basement stairs now opens into a mini-hallway created by the pantry (this last isn't necessary, but you seemed interested in that change). I also added closets next to the front door to give a little bit of "entry" identity and function to the front door.

    I don't like this idea as much because, even though it seats more people at the dining table, I think the resulting traffic flow from the entry around the table is both a little tight and a little weird. But I include it because maybe it has positive qualities based on things I don't currently know about your house and family. Or perhaps you could use a smaller table that has extra leaves for when you have to seat more but allows you more walking room around the table at all other times.

    Regardless of the dining table situation, the kitchen is the same in both suggestions. About the kitchen:

    a) You will be able to enjoy the nice view of the back yard while doing dishes, while prepping between the main sink and the cooktop, and while seated at the island. That big window and the view will be both the dominant feature and the focal point of your kitchen.

    b) With the increased amount of light from the large window (and the back door if it doesn't already have glass in it) and more light either coming through the widened doorway between the family room and kitchen in Suggestion #1 or the doorway between the kitchen and new dining in Suggestion #2, I don't think any windows are needed on the right kitchen wall that faces the neighbors that are 10 feet away. You can just close that one window up, which is a simpler and cheaper plan than the clerestory windows you were considering.

    c) The island can seat all of your children at once. You didn't ask for that, but people on gardenweb ask for that often.

    d) You have a good-sized pantry in both suggestions.

    e) The range fits neatly in the bump-out and makes it look rather intentional. People often have issues with range oven doors sticking out into the aisle (I still don't understand why American manufacturers aren't making all appliances truly counter-depth by default), so your having extra depth where the range is will be handy in terms of getting the range installed at any depth you think looks best.

    f) The upper cabinet in the corner next to the cooktop is extra-deep so its front will be flush with all the other cabinets, just as the front of the counter is flush all the way down. You'll have to get a little creative in the interior of that corner cabinet -- probably using pull-outs of some sort -- so the storage space is actually usable. Or perhaps use it for cookie sheet storage. It's the same depth as a standard above-fridge cabinet, which is often used for that.

    g) You have three long stretches of counter space in the work areas and a fourth if someone wants to set up on the long side of the island where the chairs are. That means a lot of cooks can be in this kitchen at once -- very handy, since you have so many little helpers.

    h) In suggestion #1, you don't have to move the basement door.

    i) In either suggestion, if you don't want the pantry, you can also just keep the charming arched doorway, but it does leave some empty space in front of it on the kitchen side that looks a bit abandoned.

  • Jillius
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Also, just in case you are in the mood for even more radical changes and would like a foyer.

    This requires moving both a window and the front door and adding three more doorways:

    1) Between the kitchen and dining (opposite the existing doorway to the basement).

    2) Between the new foyer and the family room.

    3) Between the new foyer and the existing living room. (If you were to put the dining in the family room instead, this new doorway wouldn't be necessary).

  • hcharnock
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Wow Jillius! You have gone above and beyond on these plans. They have made us consider so many things we would never have even thought of. We used to talk about putting the dining table in one of the living spaces, but we were unable to reimagine the kitchen in a way that made sense.

    We are thinking hard about these plans. The difficulty is definitely in losing that shower. There is one full bath on the upper level of the home. Going from two showers to one might not be the greatest thing with a family this size. I don't know.

    Also, despite my attempts to draw perfect sketches, I made one major mistake and got the twelve inch bumpout backwards. It is actually the window section that goes out. I'm not sure how I got that wrong, but I did.

    I love the huge island with room for all the kids. I love the large dining table. Right now we always feel cramped and there's no getting around that. I love the Windows across the back where I can watch the family playing in the yard, we are often outside. I love the expanded doorway to the family room as it has a ton of windows and natural light and is probably the favorite space in the home.

    You have put to paper things I would never have thought of. Thanks so much.

  • fourkids4us
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    My first reaction was to move the door to the bathroom to your mudroom. That gets it out of your kitchen space, allows kids playing outside to come in with their dirty shoes directly into the mudroom and then into the bathroom. Even if you keep the shower, is there any way to move the door to the mudroom side? As mom of four kids myself, who do have their own full bathroom, I can't imagine not having at least two showers for our family of 6. It's hard enough with the four of them sharing their own bathroom - constant fights over the shower, the bathroom, the mess the boys leave behind for the girls, etc.

    No expert on kitchen design myself but was surprised that no one had suggested moving the door to the bathroom since you have the other outside entrance to the mudroom that can be used too. And it also means more privacy for guests, as well as no disruption from family members who may be using the family room and need the bathroom - they stay out of the kitchen!

  • hcharnock
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Fourkids4us, that's a great idea! It does drive me nuts how all summer long the kids are running in and out of that kitchen door to use the bathroom. And they're usually wet from the pool. It would involve moving things around a bit in the bathroom, but could be totally worth it! I also think it's a little awkward having a bathroom door right off the kitchen space. Can't wait to run this one by my husband.

  • fourkids4us
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I should have mentioned that I have a powder room in my kitchen so obviously, I'm speaking from experience. While it's outside of my work zone, drives me nuts that kids and their friends are constantly in and out using it during the day….and mine is not close to an entry door so it means traipsing halfway through the house to get to it. I would love to have it near my mudroom entry!

    I look forward to seeing updates as to the progress of your reno. Hope you keep us posted here how it all goes and show us the finished product.

  • Jillius
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    No problem!

    The bump out change doesn't really affect the layout because I had all the fronts flush anyway. If anything, it is better to have the extra space behind the fridge. I might fill in the bump-out everywhere except where the fridge is going for simplicity's sake (this would allow you to use standard cabinets sizes, which is always cheapest).

    Or you could fill in the bump-out just at counter level and above, but have custom drawers under the counter that extend the full depth of the bump-out for extra storage space. Or you could fill in the bump just six inches everywhere (everywhere except the fridge) instead of the full 12" and have 30" deep counters/lowers and 18" deep uppers where the bump-out, bringing them flush with the 24" deep lowers and 12" deep uppers on the non-bumped-out parts of the same wall.

    Extra-deep counters are such a boon, and I can see liking having options when it comes to cabinet depth. Some items are suited better to being stored on a more shallow shelf, and some to a deeper.

    I was really hoping you had another bathroom upstairs. Would it be possible to add another shower upstairs? I think with six people, you definitely need a second one. If you are really interested in the kitchen like this, you might post a floor plan of the upstairs and get ideas for where a second shower might be squeezed in. Or the basement, if it is finished.

    Growing up, my parents had a master bath with a shower, and the three kids shared the hall bath shower. That worked just fine, but I am sure it would not have worked minus one shower, plus one kid.

  • Jillius
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I considered having the bathroom door on the sunroom side, but I know you use that room as a mud room, and I didn't want to take the only solid wall that could be used for storage/hooks/whatever from that space. But if you can spare the wall, I agree that'd be so much better.

  • hcharnock
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Our upstairs is very small. We actually have a lack of bedroom space, but it's not bothersome to us as we are rarely up there. Mainly for sleeping. The upper level is part of the original structure and basically encompasses the living room, dining room and kitchen space without the footprint of the back room area or the bathroom. We have three small bedrooms and one full bath. We do have an unfinished walk up attic that we talk about finishing someday and we could probably add a shower up there, but that's a big project for another time.

    The basement is unfinished and does have a yucky utility shower and toilet that we've never used. The plumbing is there though, haha.

  • Jillius
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Ha, well maybe fixing up the shower downstairs slightly so it isn't quite so yucky is the solution until the attic project happens. People will prefer the upstairs shower, but in a pinch, the function of the second is there.

    The attic sounds nice - that could be your master eventually.

  • sjhockeyfan325
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I would do whatever it takes to get the entry to that bathroom out of the kitchen, and not because of traffic. I just can't stand bathrooms that open into a) kitchens and b) public rooms in general. Bathrooms should open into hallways, mudrooms, laundry rooms or bedrooms!

  • GauchoGordo1993
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Agree that it would be better to access the bathroom from the foyer rather than the kitchen. But if bathroom must be accessed/visible from kitchen, it's best to arrange the door swing so that the door blocks the view of the toilet when the door is open, which could be done in Jillius' last layout if the door swung in.

  • Jillius
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    If the door swung in, you would not be able to close the door after you walked in.

  • GauchoGordo1993
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Our first home, a 3 bedroom condo, had a 7'x3' powder room off the entry with inswinging door and I always liked it. Not sure what the door width was though.