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dccurlygirl

Architects, Schematics, Choices .. oh my!

dccurlygirl
9 years ago

I am finally taking the plunge and remodeling the first floor of my 4-level split home. I will be pushing out approx 6 1/2' across the back of the house, taking down some walls (adding others) and moving rooms around. Basically, I'm moving the 3 rooms counterclockwise and opening up the middle vertical wall to allow for a Kitchen open to a Family Room. I want to keep a formal DR.

As for the Kitchen, I'd like an eat-in table for 4 and an island (which does not have to offer seating). I am the only cook and love to entertain, so usually get helpers with serving and clean up. (PS, I live alone,) Somewhere across the back, I need to have a door or doors which will go out to a deck (not currently there).

The new open K/FR space (without any possible bumpout for an eating nook) will be approx 18' x 23.

The architect has given me 14 schematic drawings and now I'm stuck. Anyone in GW-land care to throw their 2 cents in? I'm wide open to suggestions! I'll post a pic of the layout as it is now, plus the drawing which is the closest to my desires. There are 13 more in my Photobucket -- I didn't want to take up space here for all of them -- and I want to start eliminating some.

Thanks, all!

This is the space now

Favorite, so far

Here is a link that might be useful: All of the Schematics

This post was edited by dccurlygirl on Fri, Nov 7, 14 at 18:38

Comments (40)

  • marcolo
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    That slide show is too hard to work with. If you have any other favorites, post them here.

    Your favorite above could work--hard to tell without dimensions. It absolutely needs a prep sink, and requires switching the oven and fridge.

    Would you watch TV in that family room? Can't tell whether you have room to put a couch in the middle facing the wall on the right, where a TV could go. Another alternative, if you don't really need island seating with the banquette right there, is to put the TV in the island facing the FR.

  • kitchendetective
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I like to move from the refrigerator to the sink and then to the range. Vegetable preparation, as one example, requires washing and trimming or chopping before cooking. It is inconvenient to walk across the kitchen from frig to sink and back to range--hence Marcolo's comment that this schematic requires a prep sink. Ovens can be ignored most of the time, once the roast or cake or casserole or whatever is in them. I don't consider them a central to the active cooking area. However, some people do almost all their cooking in the oven, so you need to evaluate your food preparation habits and appliance use for oven placement. Neither the oven nor the refrigerator in the plan has a convenient landing space next to it. That's a big issue. I guess you can pivot and use the island, or you can traverse the pantry area and use the perimeter counter, but that is sub optimal.

  • Jillius
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I agree that you should post, say, your top four choices of the architect's plans. And please write a sentence or two underneath about what you like and don't like in each one.

    The one thing that is always hardest to tell from looking at floor plans is where the views are.

    When you are in each room, what is your desired view? Like, from my kitchen, I wanted to be able to look out the dining/living room windows (my kitchen doesn't have windows in it, so I at least wanted to be looking at some while in it). I also wanted to be able to see the TV. In order to enjoy that view, I ended up with something that is not actually the best kitchen layout on paper I could have had. But I'd rather carry things to and from the peninsula, where I get to prep with a view, than prep in a handier spot between the cooktop and sink while staring at a wall.

    It seems as if the dining room must have spectacular views, judging by its giant awesome curved wall of windows. Are you sure the best use of that wall of windows is in the dining room? It'll be your least-used space compared to the kitchen and living room, and the dining room is most commonly used for dinner parties in the evening when it is dark and views are less exciting anyway (unless you have a cityscape).

  • dccurlygirl
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks for your brain power! To answer your questions:

    Marcolo, I'm sorry that the slide show was bothersome. I thought it would be more so to post a bunch of photos, here. And I wish I had more specific dimensions, other than the overall 18x23'. (I guess that comes with the next check to the Architect). I am fine with a range (adding a 2nd oven in the island), so I don't really need the wall space for the ovens. Then, the fridge can move down and aquire some landing space. I was trying to keep the island free of sink or cooktop, so I should move the fridge closer. As for TV watching, it's not a necessity. I have a very large Family Room on the next level down which is where the TV is now.

    KitchenDetective, I do mostly stovetop, followed by oven cooking. When I entertain, I'm wishing I had a 2nd oven. I understand what you and Marcolo are saying about the fridge-to-sink placement. I currently have a very tight triangle and it's fabulous -- like you said, fridge to sink to range. And I'm not attached to the pantry, if that helps matters.

    What if I moved the fridge to the sink wall, the sink to the long wall and the range to the wall where the fridge/ovens are? That would put the sink in between fridge and range.

    Jillius, I have a corner lot in the DC 'burbs and my back/side yard are landscaped, so the view is actually nicer than in the front. The beautiful wall of windows in my current LR look out to the street and my neighbors' homes. If anyone is walking or driving by, they can see right in; that's why I want to move my less formal space to the back of the house. When I'm walking around in my jammies, I don't want to have to worry about the view I'm giving my neighbors!

    Here are a couple more contenders. Pick them apart!

    I like this work triangle better. Would like nook closer to center. Don't understand the pantry closet.

    Fridge is accessible to sink and kitchen table. Is table in the way? Could make it a nook with bench seating. Cooktop/range too far from sink?

    Fridge is more accessible to kitchen table and has more room around it. Not sure what to think about the doors that flank the nook.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Schematics all together

    This post was edited by dccurlygirl on Sat, Nov 8, 14 at 8:54

  • Jillius
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    The "favorite so far" image is no longer showing up in your original post. Maybe add it to your last post? Unless it is already there?

  • dccurlygirl
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks, Jillius. I fixed it.

  • smalloldhouse
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I'm also in the DC suburbs so I understand where you're coming from. Can I ask about the seating plans in all these schematics - do you really need banquette space, island seating, and a formal DR? I have 2 of those and even with a family of 4 it sometimes feels like overkill in a 1900 sq ft house.

  • dccurlygirl
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Smalloldhouse, I'm not attached to the island seating, but I'm old-school about sitting at a table for meals. Plus, I just don't find island seats that comfortable. The buyers/renters in my neighborhood are rather traditional about formal dining rooms, so I don't want to eliminate that space.

    Breezygirl had planned an island/table combo in her remodel and I've been curious to see it finished. I thought I might be able to do something similar and eliminate the nook from my plans. Anyone care to weigh in on that idea?

    This post was edited by dccurlygirl on Sat, Nov 8, 14 at 8:24

  • Jeannine Fay
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I agree with your favorite for the reason that it gives you the best view from your main sink as well as for your nook area.

    Here's how I may rework that current favorite a bit....If you are not sold on the corner pantry you could nix that and put a pullout pantry of some sort where the wall oven is shown.
    It would give you some landing space next to the fridge on the other side. Then you could put a prep sink on the counter to the left of the cooktop/range. Maybe in the corner? So food prep could be more local to that corner of the kitchen, cooking in the middle, and clean up at the other end with a nice view.

    It would keep your island clear as you wished. An oven could go in your island as you stated.

    With the extra counter/cabinet space you'd get from nixing the corner pantry you could hold a lot and add more prep space. I also think it prevents breaking up the flow of the kitchen if you keep tall things (fridge/cabinet pantry) at the end of the run rather than in the middle.

  • dccurlygirl
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    beanpiele, do you think I have enough room across the long wall for the range and the sink? If I do as you suggested (nix the corner pantry and the wall ovens) and give the fridge the entire wall (with landing spaces and cabs), then I can remove the counter on the back wall and move the nook to the end, such as in #6. Would I still need a prep sink, or is that just a good idea to have, anyway?

    This post was edited by dccurlygirl on Sun, Nov 9, 14 at 13:06

  • Jillius
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I have a suggestion that is largely driven by concerns with the bump-out.

    While the symmetry of having the bump-out in the center is nice on the inside, it really chops up the deck to have something jutting out in the center. I assume you'd want to put a table or a seating area outside (especially since you like to entertain), and it looks as if you'd not have one area large enough on the deck to do that with a centered bump-out.

    I also don't like the floor plan version(s) where the bump-out is a little off-center because it looks as if it should be center and just...isn't.

    To me, it makes the most sense to have the bump-out entirely to one side or the other, but I am really not a fan of its being on the same side as the kitchen. In that respect, plan #6 is better than plan #7 because in 7, the chairs/table look as if they'd be monumentally in the way of normal kitchen activities. But while #6 doesn't have that issue, it does still mean your kitchen has lost its second outside wall.

    To me, there is a big difference when I'm cooking between a window directly in front of me and one that is separated from me by the distance of a table and chairs. I have the latter in my kitchen now, and I don't really feel as if I'm really in the sunshine and feeling the breeze on my face. It's just less immediate and less enjoyable.

    And that is not even considering that you don't want a sink in your island in the first place, which #6 requires, and your cooktop and sink should not be back-to-back. (Your cooktop should be moved off-center to fix that, which won't look as nice.) Your layout options in terms of creating the most beautifully functional kitchen are just not as good when that wall stretch is off the table.

    My conclusion to all of this was to put the bump-out all the way to the right. Better for the deck, better for the kitchen. And for all that I think the instinct is to put the bump-out close to or in the kitchen, no place along that wall is actually a long walk from the kitchen, so it'll still function just fine as a kitchen table. And being a bit farther from the island seating makes the two no longer seem redundant.

    I still think having a little mini sunroom (which is what the bump-out is essentially) will be a totally charming feature of your house, so I wouldn't scrap it altogether. It'll be nice to have a table somewhere in the room for you to enjoy and to provide another mini seating area for parties. I'd just move it to the right.

    Another benefit of having the bump-out all the way to one side or the other is it allows the deck door to be centered on the wall, which allows for a continuous walkway to run from the dining room to the deck door, neatly dividing the kitchen from the living room. It nicely defines the two rooms as separate entities even though they are essentially in the same room. Also gives the island chairs more room behind them than some other iterations.

    So here is a suggestion that incorporates those ideas and includes a nicely functional kitchen layout:

    1) The island is free of cooktops/sinks as you wanted it.
    2) The work triangle is more or less ideal for you. Fridge --> sink --> cooktop --> oven. Also the dishwasher is not between the sink and cooktop, which some of the plans have. You don't want the clean-up activity in the middle of the prep zone.
    3) I actually came up with the kitchen layout independently, but I see now it is very similar to #5. The main difference is losing the double ovens and a different sort of pantry. I have a pull-out pantry next to the fridge to allow the fridge door to open all the way, and the rest of the pantry is 15" deep floor-to-ceiling cupboards. (A long wall of shallow cupboards is the best kind of pantry -- everything is so easy to reach and to see.)
    4) This layout also let me put one island chair perpendicular to the others, which is nicer for socializing because people can face each other. I know you said you didn't care too much about the island seating, but it is very nice to have when entertaining, and buyers will love it.

    This post was edited by Jillius on Mon, Nov 10, 14 at 17:56

  • dccurlygirl
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Wow, Jillius! You were very busy -- thank you, thank you!
    I totally get your deck considerations and love your thoughtful kitchen design (that long pantry wall is fabulous). I admit to having concerns about moving the nook by the LR area -- mostly, the thought of carrying food across the room. Should that be a worry?

  • Jillius
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Mock it up! Figure out the distance walk it would be from the kitchen to that bump-out on the right, pick up a plate from your current kitchen, and walk that distance. That'll tell you if it too much for you. For me, I wouldn't mind - it is only the width of a doorway farther than what we were previously considering when the bump-out was in the middle. Really, every point on that wall seems close to the kitchen to me.

    When I am grabbing things from the kitchen to sit down for a real meal, it is like an official end to my cooking/standing up/being active for a long time, so I wouldn't at all mind a little more physical separation from the kitchen heat and hubbub - it fits nicely with my mental transition from active to inactive. As long as the walk is direct and straight and not taking me through doorways and other rooms that might jostle the plate in my hand, it would be fine. But I am positive this is a personal preference thing, so you should try it out!

    This post was edited by Jillius on Mon, Nov 10, 14 at 11:26

  • Jeannine Fay
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    dccurlygirl-
    I'm not sure if there is room for the range and sink on the same wall. It's worth a try. Or putting it on the island as you showed in your last pic could be good too. What about keeping it where you had it in your first "favorite" and putting a smaller prep sink in the island. It would be less mess to have a prep sink on the island that all your dirty dishes. Or are you trying to avoid a prep sink? I get that too. But I also understand some other commenter's concerns about the long walk from fridge to sink.

    Here's my thing- That adorable nook is a huge feature of your kitchen in my opinion. (I'm having one built in my kitchen right now and can't wait until its ready for action). Besides being a place to eat meals, It is going to be a really nice place for people to gather while you cook. It will be a quiet place for you to enjoy the view outside, beverage in hand, multitasking on your laptop yet still keeping an eye on whatever is cooking on the stove. It is really important that you get that placed where your want those activities to be. I would personally want it closer to the action than not. Sure people could sit at the island to talk while you work instead of the nook, but the nook is so much more cozy and will have the benefit for connecting the people using it to the outside view as well as to the inside action.

    I feel like if you put that in the corner of the adjacent room it will get used much less. If you are a nook person (and I hope you are if you're building one) you want IT to be where YOU want to be.

    Not sure if I helped you solve any of your problems with my ramblings. Just something to think about.

  • dccurlygirl
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Jillius, while I love your kitchen design, I am not comfortable with the nook separated from the kitchen, even though in reality, it's not far. I also agree that putting it in the middle doesn't make much sense.

    beanpiele, here are 2 more drawings, putting the sink and range on the same wall and keeping the nook as part of the kitchen. The architect put in a prep sink, but if one goes in, I suppose it should be off center on the island.

    Any other glaring issues or considerations with these recent designs?

  • GreenDesigns
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Not feeling the bumpout. It's not organic to the home. It feels contrived, like "we have to stick this somewhere". I think the island is the more logical location for casual eating. I'd ditch the bump out and focus on making the island work harder.

  • Jillius
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    In #15, the dishwasher should not be between the sink and the stove. It means you cannot open the dishwasher while prepping at the most popular prep station (between the sink and stove). However, if you move the dishwasher to the other side of the sink, it crowds the nook. I'd eliminate #15 as a choice based on this.

    #16 is better, but you have everything hot (cook top, oven) next to where people are seated. I would double check the distance between the two and make sure the seated people and people getting in and out of the nook are far enough away that they won't have oil and stuff popped on them or bump the hot oven door or you when you are holding something hot or whatevwr you are holding as you try to set it down to the right of the cooktop. Typically you want the kitchen danger zones insulated from traffic, and this is a little close. It could be fine, but I don't know the dimensions.

    I'd also eliminate the little thing next to the fridge to get a bit more counter between it and the corner. Don't want that corner to feel cramped and dark and unusable.

    This post was edited by Jillius on Mon, Nov 10, 14 at 19:02

  • Jeannine Fay
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Of those two latest designs I like #16. I guess I'd scoot the prep sink toward the nook end of the island.
    What is that to the right side if facing the fridge? Could it be a pull out pantry?

  • dccurlygirl
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks for your input, GreenDesigns. I've been fighting with my desires to have table seating AND an island with the feasability of having both -- thus the now 16 schemantics!

    Jillius, the reality of the nook seating is that I don't have to have chairs in the aisle. The nook will seat 3 comfortably, so the chairs aren't even part of MY plan. (I have a corner nook in my current kitchen and I drag in a dining room chair, if 4 of us are seated there. Since I live alone, those moments are occasional.) Would this information change your mind at all about the dishwasher being next to the nook? And I agree with you about the hot things being closer to the nook -- not a fan of that.

    Beanpiele, that little thing next to the fridge is some sort of appliance garage (which I don't want). The piece at the end is a pantry.

    I've been looking at the link below as an inspiration for #15 plan

    I thank you all for your honest opinions and suggestions. Making these early decisions has been harder than I expected.

    Here is a link that might be useful: [Inspiration photo[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/classical-kitchen-traditional-kitchen-new-york-phvw-vp~1354907)

  • Jillius
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    So the nook would be like a restaurant booth? Won't that be odd? I feel like while that might work for you, any future buyers would want it to be like a normal banquette with seating on all sides, except they couldn't because the dishwasher would be in the way. And I confess I think the inspiration photo is a little odd too. I would want a peninsula or some kind of separator in between the kitchen and the nook. The windows are beautiful, but the space needs some definition.

    At this point, I might be joining team scrap the nook. You could add a little free-standing table and a pair of chairs to the living room furniture arrangement or change the doorway to the dining room so it feels more natural to eat at the table in there.

    Without the nook, I think the space already has everything buyers could want -- a big deck with great space for furniture, a big island with seating for informal eating, lots of light, a kitchen with a great layout and lots of storage, a dining room for formal eating, lots of space for living room furniture. You'd never walk in the house and think it was missing anything.

    It just feels as if you'd be adding a nook to the detriment of that. It either makes the kitchen weird or it makes the deck weird.

    How much room do you have in the backyard? It is possible to change the shape of the deck so that if the nook were centered on the wall, the deck would still be a good size and shape for its own furniture?

  • nancyjwb
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I really like #15. Your inspiration photo is one of my favorite kitchens on houzz. I don't think the idea of banquette seating at the end of the counter is unusual, I really like the idea. Being able to relax somewhere comfortable, close to the toaster and coffee maker in the mornings; or close enough to keep an eye on something simmering in the evening, while surrounded by natural light and nature views, sounds very appealing. You have a great space to work with!

  • Jeannine Fay
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hum, I love the inspiration photo. I love the nook. I don't think you should worry about future buyers not wanting that space at all. If it is not cramped, if it light filled, if it provides a comfortable gathering place for you and your family - you will get tons of use out of it and future buyers will also be attracted to it.

    I think there are some people are not inclined toward nooks/banquettes. But there are a lot of people who love them and your future buyer will be one of them. For me it's one of the things i love about your design as well as your inspiration photo and if I were a buyer I would be a huge plus. But more importantly, there is not one possible design that you showed which does not have that nook so I think it is something you really want.

  • Jeannine Fay
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    sorry for two posts...
    Looking back at your inspiration photo, I agree that the seating area does look awkward but I think that it's because the table doesn't really adequately fit in the space. A pedestal table is really required with banquette seating for easy in and out. Also that table does not seem long enough for that very long banquette.

    Your's seems much more modestly sized and that round table will fit very well for all three occupants.

  • Jillius
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Is that it? The table and chairs just looked totally random to me. Like someone left them in the kitchen in the process of taking them upstairs.

    I can see how if the table looked more custom fit to the window seat, it would look more as if it belonged.

  • Jeannine Fay
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Jillius I wouldn't be surprised if your scenario with that table and chair is not half right. I think sometimes when these photos are being staged they grab any old stuff to fill the space. If the actual occupants of the kitchen had not picked a permanent table yet (or even actually moved in) they may stage it with something random like that. That's what I think happened because no one would actually pick that table for that space long term.

  • marcolo
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I'd go with your original favorite, adding a prep sink to the island, and switching the oven and fridge for safety.

    The other plans just keep marching down the same wrong path of forgetting how a meal is prepared.

    Not buying into the niche hate. Your house already has other stepbacks on the rear, so it fits. Plus, honestly, islands suck for seating. I know they're all Pinterest-y and oh-but-my-vision-y. But in reality, you have to climb up, climb down, and your feet just hang there getting cankles. You don't want cankles, do you? Even worse, everybody's all lined up in a row, so they can't even talk to each other. All they can do is sit there and stare at you while you cook, like they're waiting for that Idina Menzel number from "Frozen."

  • dccurlygirl
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Jillius, I guess I'm disappointed that the inspiration pic doesn't sway you into liking my nook-space more, but as beanpiele noticed, it's in every one of the schematics, so I'm determined to make it work. I want the table to be close to the kitchen, so that I can scoot in and out if I forget something, and adding a barrier like a peninsula would make that a chore. I'm not opposed to moving it down the back wall a bit, but not too far away. As for the number of seats, it will have seating on 3 sides and I can pull up a chair for a 4th. It won't be a booth, but more of a "U" shape. Your comments to the entirety of my 1st floor remodel has really made me feel good about jumping into this project, so a BIG thanks for that. It has helped me realize that once the project is completed, I will have a beautiful, practical, inviting home.

    Nancyjwb, I like the nook being close to the work space for all the same reasons you mentioned. Thanks for the reminder!

    Beanpiele, you are on the money about the nook being a "must-have". Since I want both a table and an island in this space, putting in the nook seems the only way to get both .. plus, I love the thought of being able to sit in the early morning light with a cup of coffee and enjoy my garden, while still being close to the kitchen. I agree that the table in my inspiration kitchen is all wrong for the space, but maybe it's there more for spreading out, doing homework than for eating family meals. Whatever, I don't have that kind of space, anyway. My 36" round table will be residing in my nook.

    Marcolo, I hadn't looked at my original "favorite" in several days and I can see why that is still a good option. (I would probably remove the ovens and put one in the island, replace the cooktop with a range) And I totally agree about the island seating. I am never comfortable sitting down for a meal at an island. My back hurts and I rush through the meal, just to get down. I don't mind it for casual conversation with the cook, but can't see it for everyday meals. Thus, the nook!

    You all are keeping me on my toes with your thoughts and considerations. I'm honored that you are taking the time to help me through this early phase.

  • kiko_gw
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Have you used the 36" table for 4 people already? We have a 47" round game table in our living room we use occasionally for formal meals when it's just the 4 of us (2 adults and 2 kids), and we have just enough room on the table for placesettings, candles, bread, butter and salt/pepper. We use our side tables to put the food on. I would think a 36 inch table would be even tighter.

  • dccurlygirl
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Kiko, I have the 36" table and a corner banquette in my current kitchen. There's just enough room for 4 place settings, but definitely no room for extras. I live alone in the house, so for the most part, it's just me sitting at the nook. And the table works for casual meals when a couple of friends visit. Do you think I should plan the nook for a larger table?

    Current table

  • kiko_gw
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Cute nook! Hmmm, well if you stick with the 36" table I think you would have to use banquette seating on half. Are you adding a large deck on the back? Do you grill or eat outside a lot? Did you also say you have a nice garden/yard/view in back?

  • dccurlygirl
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Kiko, as for the nook, I was thinking of a "U" shape with the table in the middle, Yes, to the deck and option to eat outside. I have a pleasant, landscaped garden on the side and back.

  • dccurlygirl
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Marcolo, I saw your recent post (to another question) and your response included the mantra, "Ice, Water, Stone, Fire". I've been thinking a lot about that, in relation to my kitchen remodel.

    I really enjoy looking at finished kitchens for inspiration and assistance and found this one on houzz that might just work in my space. It includes a window seat, instead of a nook, which is fine. Can I ask your thoughts on this layout?

    Here is a link that might be useful: It's called a Family Friendly Kitchen

    This post was edited by dccurlygirl on Fri, Nov 14, 14 at 17:12

  • marcolo
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Just looking at those pictures--not yet looking at how they relate to your space--I'd rather see the fridge where the wall ovens are. Partly because the prep sink is now duplicative--one could use the main sink and prep on the countertop in between the sink and range, or on the island with a little dripping. But mostly because the prep zone crosses the cleanup zone. If I'm running to the fridge, I don't want to be dodging and dancing with someone washing a plate or rinsing their hands.

  • dccurlygirl
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I've been trying to absorb all of the advice shared with me and pass it on to my architect and we've come up with this latest plan. There are some additional changes (not shown here), like a prep sink at range end of island, dishwasher moved next to fridge and shortening the window seat to 7'-ish.

    Please let me know if I'm on the right track. Thanks, all!

  • funkycamper
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    This has been an interesting discussion. I've picked up quite a few tips about kitchen design just by reading it.

    With the changes you mention that aren't noted on the last drawing, I think this looks pretty good. However, I'm wondering where you are going to be storing your dishes/cutlery, etc. How far do you have to walk from DW to where you will be putting things away? I would want the most commonly used, everyday items in drawers across from the sink so I don't have to walk and haul items all over the kitchen to put them away. But then you can't open those drawers and have the DW open at the same time so storage there would be a bit useless. Hmmmm....wish I had a solution.

    I would suggest making the aisle wider so both can be open at the same time but it looks like your island seating is already crowding up to the furniture and if people are sitting there, there is no space to walk between the people sitting and the furniture which would create a bit of a bottleneck forcing people to either walk through the kitchen or to weave in/out of the seating area. So making the aisle wider would probably eliminate your island seating entirely. Which, to be honest, probably isn't a bad idea. You will have better traffic flow while entertaining without seating there, imho.

  • kiko_gw
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Love that new inspiration photo! I would put the prep sink on the other end of the island, next to the fridge and presumably closer to the outdoor access. Leave the fridge and ovens where they are (keeps hot areas on one side of kitchen and gives easy access to fridge for snacks, cream for coffee, condiments for grilling). Then the prep sink would be a great place to wash hands before getting snack out of fridge or after working with raw meat at grill.

  • dccurlygirl
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks for bringing up the cutlery/dishes issue, funkycamper. Another alteration talked about eliminates the desk at the end and moves the fridge down some, providing a cabinet to the right of the dishwasher (which will be to the immediate right of the sink). As for the counter seating, it's not a "must have" for me (I'm a traditionalist about sitting around a table for meals); the furniture in the drawing does not represent my living room furniture, just possibilities.

    Kiko, thanks so much for weighing in. I don't have a prep sink in my current kitchen and still have a hard time getting used to the idea of not using a single water source for all kitchen tasks. Do you think I could do without one in this plan? I don't have any kids, but for entertaining purposes, it would be useful.

    This post was edited by dccurlygirl on Sun, Nov 23, 14 at 14:00

  • marcolo
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    You have major zone crossing and traffic crossing in that last layout. Read this.

  • dccurlygirl
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Can you fix it for me, Marcolo?

  • funkycamper
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Oh, crap! Ice-Water-Stone-Fire!!!!! I've been trying to repeat that mantra until it becomes glued in my brain and I totally missed the fridge placement being a problem. Looking back through your various designs, I think the one Jillius created for you fits the Ice-Water-Stone-Fire workflow the best.