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kiwigem_gw

Please kindly (or ruthlessly ) critique my kitchen plans

Kiwigem
9 years ago

Hi, everyone. I'd love your input on our kitchen plans. I've included the pantry, mudroom, and sunroom so you can see how everything relates.
A couple things to note:

Each graph paper square equals one foot. Sorry, I'll go back and mark some dimensions.

We don't have a formal dining room. On the occasion we have a large crowd for dinner, our table (which is only 5'3"; accidentally drew as 6') extends to 10'6" or we can set up a table in the sunroom for the day.

We will only have upper cabs above the refrigerator and in the pantry over the coffee station. All dishes and flatware will be kept in the island drawers.

I am the only cook in the house. Rarely I get a little help with chopping, but mostly I'm lucky if someone sets the table, lol. (Might need a life coach on that one- 5 kids and DH is a lot of potential helping hands!)

I'm thinking of putting an under counter snack fridge in the pantry for the kids.

Also, I don't know how to draw drawers from above, so any time you see three lines, that's a drawer stack.

Thanks!

Comments (60)

  • lavender_lass
    9 years ago

    An L-shape kitchen would give you more counter space around the range, since it would utilize the extra linear footage.

    Ideally, you want your work triangle to be fairly compact. Since your kitchen is so large, it would work well to have the fridge by the pantry, the range where the main sink is located (between windows) and the prep sink across from range and fridge, on the island.

    You could have the clean up area (main sink and two dishwashers) on the other wall. This would eliminate steps, while working in your 'triangle' and put clean up close to the dining area...without crossing into the main work space. Great for more than one cook or extra 'helpers'.

    Since you already have the windows in place, you'll have to find a layout you like that works with that....and most people here don't like island cooktops, which would be another option. Fridge by the pantry, main sink under window and cooktop on island. Baking area and ovens could go on the short wall, but again...not a popular option for many reasons. (Hood location, splatters, need more distance from stools, etc.)

    One long wall with an island means a lot of walking back and forth, which is not awful, but not the best set up. Depends on how many steps you want to take, while cooking....and exchanging the extra wall of storage for a few more feet on the island.

  • annkh_nd
    9 years ago

    If you opted to go with an L, you could simply close off the corner - mine has drawers on both sides, and it's wonderful.

    I have a U kitchen - the other corner has a super susan, which is also wonderful. But ultimately it all comes down to what kind of storage you need.

    Why the desire to have all 5 kids at the island - and no grownups? I picture you holding court, with the 5 listening attentively to everything you have to say from your side of the island...

    Seriously, with the table so close, I would think that meals would be eaten there - and include Mom and Dad. Island seating would be more for 1 to 3 kids having a snack, or chatting with you while you cook, or doing homework (though by age 10 or 11, my kids preferred to do homework in their bedrooms).

  • debrak2008
    9 years ago

    There are options for the corner cabinets. I love my upper easy reach. I love L's with islands.

  • Oaktown
    9 years ago

    Hi Kiwigem, you know, I think your kitchen is just great -- there always are tradeoffs and you will figure out what works best for your family.

    I think it is often suggested here that you walk through your family's typical day in your head, from unloading the dishes, setting the table, putting groceries away, prepping, cooking, cleaning up, etc. For example, your kitchen as drawn would work pretty well for our family of 7 with 2 exceptions -- (1) we would want to swap the relative locations of the microwave and prep sink so micro is closer to fridge and trash and (2) I don't think coffee in the pantry would work for us.

    I am thrilled with how our kitchen turned out even though the architect gave us a lot of grief because each of our sinks is 10 feet away from the refrigerator (apparently a big no-no). It works for us because our refrigerator gets so much traffic.

    While I think the kitchen is lovely, I did also notice is that the pantry appears to be the main walkway into the house -- or is there a door from the mudroom into the sunroom? I think I would want one if the stove is staying as drawn. Otherwise that might be another factor in favor of swapping the fridge and stove.

    Good luck!

  • marcolo
    9 years ago

    I can't think of a single kitchen function that doesn't have somebody running into the cook at the range. Including entering the house.

  • Buehl
    9 years ago

    Something else no one has mentioned yet is that the range and Cooking Zone are in the middle of what appears to be a very busy aisle - and that's the appliance/zone that needs the most protection from traffic!

    (OK, Marcolo just did - I refreshed just b/f submitting!)

  • sjhockeyfan325
    9 years ago

    As Kiwigem knows, I have the same layout (albeit shorter at 13'), with the refrigerator and cooktop placement switched. The entrance from the main corridor of the apartment into the combo kitchen/dining room/living room is to the right, just like the entrance from kiwigem's mud room. No one uses the aisle between the island and the appliance wall for cutting through - they go around the other side of the island.

  • Kiwigem
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Thank you all for your input!

    Marcolo, where would you put the range (or cooktop if things were moved around) in this scenario?

    I agree that the entry to the kitchen is not ideal in some ways, but I can't change that. I will say that the entrance to the house from the garage has been through the kitchen in the last three kitchens I have owned or rented, and since I am usually arriving with everyone else it has never caused a problem. That can change as the number of drivers in our household increases of course. The only person who ever enters from the garage is DH when arriving home when I'm making dinner (and he makes a point of running in to me no matter where I am, LOL).
    I would like to explore what Oaktown mentioned- having an entrance to the sunroom from the mudroom- but that's a shear wall, so it might be tricky.

    I'm thinking of having a dutch door to the pantry, so if there is an occasion when I am cooking and there is reason to expect significant traffic from the mudroom, I can signal to put on the brakes.

    While I like the island for the kids to be able to eat weekday breakfasts while I pack their lunches and empty the dishwasher, and to put out spreads for parties, I am going to go through the exercise of considering an L with a smaller island just to see if there is something I am missing.

    Sjhockeyfan, have I seen a photo of your kitchen? I would love to if I could. I remember you kindly posting one for me in another thread, but I think that was your previous kitchen.

  • desertsteph
    9 years ago

    5 kids - how old? I hope they are very young if they aren't helping much. Even young kids like to learn to cook. I was cooking by at least 9. My oldest son got his own kid's cookbook at about 13 and made dinner once a wk (I'd revise that looking back to helping w/dinner and maybe deciding on what we'd have). He did fine but some of the meals we had to eat!!
    At about 12 and 13 the 2 youngest had to learn some basic cooking or pretty much starve - I was down with pneumonia and not up to cooking (or much of anything) for 5 wks or so. They learned some basic cooking, how to do laundry and vacuum. It was a wonderful learning experience for them. I never let them forget how much they had learned either.

    as for the prep sink - I'd put it in for when the kids want to or need to learn. I'd also go with the L and a shorter island. Put a hangover on 3 sides for the kids while young. They won't all fit there when older - and probably won't all be there at the same time wanting to be at the island.

    You'll lose storage in the island but gain it back with the L.

    The stove is way too close to the door in/out.

    the easy access upper cab would be great and the lower corner - put in a super susan.

  • desertsteph
    9 years ago

    what room is to the left of the kitchen?

  • debrak2008
    9 years ago

    Have the kids reach the stage where they won't sit next to each other, annoy each other, throw food at each other, etc? If not that day is coming. 5 kids sitting nicely in a row at the same time may not occur as you hope. They are all different ages meaning their schedules will start to differ as they get older. They may not all eat at the same time. They may or may not ever be interested in cooking.

    I would get the most functional layout for cooking first then think about if some seating could be added to the island.

  • Kiwigem
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Desertsteph, room to the left is the foyer. Ages from 13 to 3. They do help with baking and they love to man the juicer, but honestly I like them to keep away when my chef's knife is flying around. Part of the reason we have decided to go with induction, however, is that I will feel safer with them learning some stove skills.

    I am going to toy with an L plan, just to see what it yields.

  • Kiwigem
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    The difficulty I am having in my first attempts is that to put a refrigerator by the pantry it would have to be very small or a built in which isn't in our budget. A full depth one encroaches on the pantry door. It's a large door, so I could make it a little smaller to gain a few inches...

  • lavender_lass
    9 years ago

    Okay...what about fridge on the other end of the L? That would put it by the range/cooktop, with a small prep sink across. The main sink and clean up area would be on the other 'leg' of the L, with room for a baking center and extra oven.

    This keeps the island as a major prep area, as well as the corner between the range/cooktop and main sink.

    If you don't need the oven (or it blocks the pantry doorway too much) you could put a VERY nice dish hutch in this location! Hope this helps :)

    From Kitchen plans

    P.S. Just redid the photo albums, so lost some pictures on other threads...sorry :(

    This post was edited by lavender_lass on Tue, Nov 4, 14 at 22:57

  • desertsteph
    9 years ago

    I'd certainly add the prep sink now (easier and cheaper now). The kids can do other things than chopping - like rinsing veggies, get water for a recipe (or sibling) w/o getting in the way of someone at the big sink rinsing dishes.

    LL's LO has a good place for the fridge - with access to it w/o getting into the cooking area and close to the table. Also a good place for the stove away from the in/out door.

    sometimes that cabinet corner can be utilized by accessing it from the other room. I've had that in a few homes and loved it. It's usually with drawers or a small door on it. In the foyer, I'm not sure what use it'd be. If you didn't have the mudroom I'd suggest drawers for caps, gloves, scarves etc. OTOH, I think the newer SSs hold a lot in the kitchen and are very useful there. the kind from the old days would be a waste. I wouldn't let the lower corner cab keep me from having an L kitchen.

  • Kiwigem
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Lavender_lass that was so kind of you to take the time to do that for me!! I'm kind of overwhelmed. :-)

    Thank you all SO MUCH for your input. After thinking about the way my family functions in the kitchen and taking the safety (how did I not think of that?!) and traffic factors into account, I think I am inclined to keep a single wall layout, but adjust the pantry door size so I can reverse the wall layout and have the refrigerator by the pantry and the cooktop out of the flow of traffic.
    I will attach a drawing in a moment.

    Initial thoughts?

  • HomeChef59
    9 years ago

    I really like what lavender lass worked up for you.

    My KD said that according to the Kitchen and Bath Design organization there are something like 35 different rules to designing a kitchen. She said that she had never designed a kitchen in the last 20 years that didn't break at least one or two of the rules.

    Do what feels best for you.

  • annkh_nd
    9 years ago

    I think the L has a lot going for it. I get the sense that you have a deep gut reaction against the corner cabs, and aren't giving it a fair shake. If you can make the long galley work as well - terrific! But it would be a shame if you compromised yourself out of a great layout just to eliminate a corner.

    I think it's always a worthwhile exercise to inventory your kitchen stuff, and figure out where things will go in the new layout. Items used often should go near their point of use: potholders, cooking utensils, spices, cutting boards, knives, pots and pans, towels, plastic containers, glasses, flatware, plates and bowls. Next consider large things - cookie sheets, cake pans, big mixing bowls, roasting pans, stock pots (though your pantry gives you a good option here). And appliances - mixer, food processor, toaster, crock pot, waffle maker. The more you can plan in advance where things will go, the more functional your design will be.

    You might find that with one option or the other, you don't have a perfect spot for something, or it's too far away to be convenient.

    I do thing the L gives you a lot of options for storage around the range, with the uppers nearby. Putting the fridge on that wall even allows you to make that whole leg deeper, providing even more storage. It also showcases the window better, without the fridge crowding it on one side.

  • sjhockeyfan325
    9 years ago

    I love the layout lavenderlass drew up. It's what I would do if I had the room (like I did in my old house).

    In the meantime, yes, the previous picture was of my old kitchen. I'll try to remember to post a picture of the current kitchen tonight. Keep in mind though that we're 3 adults living at home. One cooks, one sets and clears the table, and one cleans up.

  • Jeannine Fay
    9 years ago

    Our original kitchen reno plans called for a similar layout to what you have. A long island with counters on one side. I got a lot of similar feedback to what you are getting. Our whole house plans changed (got smaller to keep in line with the budget) and then we ended up with an L shaped kitchen with an smaller island. I'm very happy with what we have, but I like that "galley island" style as well. I think it goes very well with a new build/modern feeling space.

    I agree it would be nice to get the range out of the way of foot traffic in and out. Let's see your plan--- back to the graph paper :)

  • Oaktown
    9 years ago

    Kiwigem,

    I think swapping the stove and refrigerator will do a lot for the function of your kitchen. Easier to unload from the grocery store. You won't need a separate snack fridge for the kids. If someone takes milk in their coffee it is right there. Someone can be putting together school lunches in the pantry while you are cooking breakfast, etc.

    I personally like the possibility of using that shared foyer wall by the new stove location for cooking stuff. Maybe a shallow alcove or cabinet between the studs? You could even have a (cedar sliding?) door on which you could hang the kids' artwork as a focal point when folks enter through the pantry? Recessed spice/oils cabinet? Sorry, now getting a bit carried away . . .

    [Industrial Kitchen[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/industrial-kitchen-ideas-phbr1-bp~t_709~s_2113) by Other Metro Interior Designers & Decorators HANDE KOKSAL INTERIORS

    [Contemporary Kitchen[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/contemporary-kitchen-ideas-phbr1-bp~t_709~s_2103) by Jackson Interior Designers & Decorators dwelling

    [Craftsman Kitchen[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/craftsman-kitchen-ideas-phbr1-bp~t_709~s_2116) by Minneapolis Architects & Building Designers David Heide Design Studio

  • lavender_lass
    9 years ago

    Hmmm...I like a lazy susan! If they're well built, you can put a lot of mixing bowls, etc. there and have them handy to the range or sink.

    As for a corner counter....what better place to put the cookie jar? You have to have one (LOL) and there's still room to use the counter in front of it :)

    Seriously, there are SO many storage ideas for a corner, from corner drawers (those are so cool) to pull out shelves that swing back in, in fact, I'm sure there are some threads about them, if you do a search.

    I have always liked L-shape kitchens, but I don't care for U-shaped ones. I guess the few I've worked in weren't that well designed and I'm a bit biased. I know some people love them!

    As for one long wall....you always seem to lose counter space. The fridge, sink and range take up a lot of valuable space and you either lose the counter space or end up walking a long way. And it put the sinks right in the middle of the action. You can't use either sink without blocking someone walking between fridge and range. Just something to think about...

    And thank you for all the 'thumbs up' on the plan. I know no plan is perfect, but I really like those little round prep sinks. They're so handy and seem to fit the corner of an island :)

    From Kitchen ideas

    This post was edited by lavender_lass on Wed, Nov 5, 14 at 13:37

  • desertsteph
    9 years ago

    "I would get the most functional layout for cooking first then think about if some seating could be added to the island. "

    yes, it should be function first. the expense of a new kitchen is usually for the long haul - so make it a good usable space.

    the kids will grow and change in size and take up more space too. Then they'll grow up and be gone and the kitchen will still be there (if you still have the house). With 5, they will actually multiply - friends, gfs/bfs and then spouses. Some of them will need space to work and help at times too. Lots of kids milling around to make a pizza, cookies, sandwiches and other snacks are in your future.

  • Kiwigem
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Oaktown, you speak my design language for sure :-) Those recesses are super cool.

    LL- There are some GREAT things about the plan you made and it was so awesome of you to take the time to do that for me. I have to digest it for a bit. I also need to determine if I can afford the extra cabinets and soapstone :-/

    If I stick with the modern single wall/island approach, I still feel like the original plan with the fridge on the left is the nicest visually, but if the experts think 15" of cabinet isn't enough of a buffer for safety by the door- safety first. Here is the new drawing with the fridge on the right, abutting the pantry door.

  • sjhockeyfan325
    9 years ago

    That's my exact layout, except I don't have the pantry to right of the fridge, have only one dishwasher, my trash is where your second dishwasher is (to the left of the sink) and I don't have the drawer stack next to the cooktop. (that's how mine gets down to 13' from your 19')

  • sjhockeyfan325
    9 years ago

    BTW, I'm not arguing FOR that layout - we were stuck with it because we're in a converted industrial building and therefore couldn't move much plumbing or electrical. I'm just saying it works, and in my case (13') is actually pretty efficient - I don't have to go far to do/get anything (basically, it's a pivot and one step from the island to the cooktop, trash, sink and refrigerator), and the island is 10' of uninterrupted space for working on.

  • lavender_lass
    9 years ago

    I like this drawing, but there's not much room around the range. Can you try drawing an elevation with the L-shape?

    I'm just curious to see how it looks and how much space you have around the appliances. I would put a dish hutch, instead of the ovens, but that's just me :)

  • Kiwigem
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    How do you like it using this layout, sjhockeyfan? My only doubts at this point are that I think it would look nicer to have the "stick-out" of the fridge terminate into the wall instead of encroaching on the pantry door, and since I am right-handed, something about the fridge on the left speaks to me. However, having the fridge near the pantry and coffee area makes strategic sense, as does removing the cooking area from all traffic. I may just need to let function win out here and trust that the wisdom of it will become beautiful to me :-)

  • Kiwigem
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Oops! Sorry, sjhockeyfan and LL. I didn't see your last two posts when I posted my last.

    LL- I agree about the hutch. I wouldn't want my ovens so far from the cooktop. I often brown something on the stove and move to it the oven to braise, so I want them together. I will try to put together an elevation of the L. FWIW, I currently have a cooktop with only 15' on either side (right by the entry to the kitchen incidentally) and I don't find it cramped from an elbow room perspective. I think if I had 4 feet to one side as I would in the drawing it would be ok.

  • lavender_lass
    9 years ago

    If that's what you like...how about something like this?

    Put the ovens by the cooktop and keep the fridge by the pantry...but bring out that wall a foot or so, to protect people from the swinging fridge door. On the end of the opposite side, I turned the shelves 90 degrees to give you a place for cookbooks :)

    From Kitchen plans

  • Kiwigem
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Here is a very rough sketch of an L plan that would make more sense for me. I don't want the fridge near the range as it would guarantee that my kids would get in my way. One thing I will say for it, I won't need to move the window to the center of the wall anymore. Makes for some asymmetries that I'm not sure I like, though.

  • jdez
    9 years ago

    Kiwi - your drawing of the L is my kitchen minus one dishwasher.

    Edit: also minus the prep sink.

    FWIW, in looking at your house and some of your other choices, I think the galley kitchen is more in line with your design. I am just an observer with no experience though. Just my opinion. Also, if you want to try out that L, you can come South and check mine out.

    This post was edited by JDez on Wed, Nov 5, 14 at 19:31

  • lavender_lass
    9 years ago

    So....what did you think of changing the doorway?

  • Kiwigem
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    JDez, thanks :-) I think you've reached the crux of my hesitation with the L design. It doesn't feel as though it "belongs" as much aesthetically. Form follows function, though as they say. Are you still building or is your kitchen finished? I'm embarrassed I can't remember.

  • Kiwigem
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Lavender_lass, how do I keep missing your posts? The one you have drawn does make a great deal of sense pragmatically. Sometimes it takes me some time to warm up to something when it's new. I will chew on it! Thank you!!!

  • jdez
    9 years ago

    Just a couple of days from being finished enough to move in. The kitchen still has no backsplash or range hood but everything else is done.

  • lavender_lass
    9 years ago

    That's okay...it's easy to miss things on a busy post :)

    I thought moving the doorway down just a bit to the pantry/coffee area might give you more space for the fridge doors. And I always love a tall but narrow bookcase for cookbooks. They are easy to grab, but out of the way of the cooking splatters!

  • Jeannine Fay
    9 years ago

    I do think your new placement of the range makes more sense. It will be nice to be in a less busy spot when you are at the stove and having the fridge located in a place where they don't have to walk through your work zone to get to it will be nice as well. I think that galley/island design is very cool looking. I understand your hesitation to deal with corner cabinets. You want a sleek modern look and if that is what is going to make you happy when you walk into your kitchen every day you should stay true to that vision.

  • sjhockeyfan325
    9 years ago

    Sorry this is the best. I can do tonight! (3 posts)

    This one is looking from the living room toward the kitchen. The entrance is to the far side of the refrigerator, and the dining room is to the right of the island.

  • sjhockeyfan325
    9 years ago

    This one is looking from the entrance toward the living room. The refrigerator is on my right.

  • sjhockeyfan325
    9 years ago

    This one is lookingn, standing next to the island.

  • sjhockeyfan325
    9 years ago

    Sorry for all the pix - I didn't like how dark the others came out, so I took another. In this one I,m sitting on the sectional at the far end of the living room looking back toward the kitchen and dining area, and the entrance (beyond the fridge).

  • sjhockeyfan325
    9 years ago

    This one is looking in from the entrance.

  • Kiwigem
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Sjhockeyfan, thank you SO much for posting those pics. I love your house!

  • Kiwigem
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Ok, so this is a nuanced change, but it makes a big difference to me:
    I've taken your collective advice and moved the range to the left of the window and I will be getting a built in all refrigerator (found a great deal on a discontinued unit) so it won't crowd the pantry door. Matching all freezer will go in the pantry. Also, per Oaktown's advice I will be leaving the island as-is, so the microwave is by the refrigerator and the prep sink is closer to the range. That way on busy days the family will have "their half" and I will have "my half" :-)

    I know the single wall/ island plan isn't for everyone, but it's what I've always imagined so I'm going to stick with it. What do you think?

    Thanks again for everyone's help!!

    This post was edited by Kiwigem on Sun, Nov 9, 14 at 9:55

  • lavender_lass
    9 years ago

    I like this one!

    The all fridge makes a big difference in the space and the lines. Can you make the pantry a smaller door on top and a long one below....to match the fridge?

    I'm not really a 'modern kitchen gal' but it seems like the 'lines' are a big deal. Everything else is really balanced.

    Also, would you want just a cabinet door to the left of the range? These are the two areas you are going to see, since the island will not block them. What do you plan to do with the wall on the 'left' side of the plan? Is that going to have art?

    Have fun with the kitchen planning :)

  • Kiwigem
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Hi, Lavender_lass; great point about the pantry door. It's a small change but it makes a big difference- thank you! I had the two cabinets there because my GC said I could use a stock size, but I think the aesthetics are worth custom on that cabinet if need be.

    Yes the wall to the left of the range will have either art, a window into the foyer, or artistic family photos. I really wish that we could do a double sided gas fireplace there, but I think it would be too deep for the wall.

  • Jeannine Fay
    9 years ago

    Kiwigem- Is your drawing hand tired yet? :) I laugh because I drew all my kitchen elevations by hand on graph paper as well. I just had to "see" them. Keep those drawings in a safe place because once your dream kitchen is done it is fun to pull them out to see how well your vision materialized. Just for fun I'm posting a paper & real life image of my Range Wall. As you can see, I had fun drawing subway tile too.

    I think your latest drawing looks great. It sounds like a good solution to go with a CD all fridge and locate the freezer else ware. I could get away with a CD French Door/bottom freezer because I only have 4 in my family. Who knows I may end up with an extra fridge in the basement when the kids get bigger. I love the depth though. It is so much easier to keep clean as old stuff can't "hide". So far we have plenty of room. I also think you will enjoy the much sleeker and built in look a CD fridge has. Especially with your clean modern design.

  • Kiwigem
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    beanpiele, lol! My neck is more tired than my drawing hand from leaning over the graph paper and the computer. I am actually considering scheduling a visit to my MAT/PT- used to be for running injuries, now it's drawing- I'm getting old! You're right though. I can't just theorize; have to see it!

    Your kitchen looks beautiful!! I love how you included the crock of utensils in your drawing. :-) I don't know why it makes me think of this because it's not nearly as random, but we have a standing joke about how whenever our architect made a rendering of a version of the living room, there was always a huge vase of branches in it. We were like, "Well, I'm glad that's there, because no branch vase would be a total deal-breaker." haha

    Is that an induction range? How do you like it?

  • Jeannine Fay
    9 years ago

    You better go easy on your neck or your going to give new meaning to "kitchen rehab"

    Yes, It is induction and I do really like it. It took some getting used to and there are pluses and minuses. A minus being that sauté pans sometimes move a bit when I stir them unless I'm are holding it with the other hand. I know that sounds silly and something I wouldn't have even thought of, but it just takes getting used to. Another minus is juggling pan sizes a bit so that they will fit on the "burner" circles.

    A big plus is that even my not terribly expensive pans cook beautifully and ultra evenly because the heat is so well distributed. I love how easy it is to clean up. No more heavy grates to remove and scrub. Stuff really does not bake on the cooktop at all. I can wipe it totally clean in 10 seconds even after a long day of cooking. Also, love how I don't get hot standing in front of it. There is just so much less heat coming off it. It think this will be a big plus in the summer. Yes water does boil fast and that's nice, but even better is how it holds a very low even simmer. My gas range always seemed to simmer too high.