That range in the corner is much worse than a cabinet in the corner imo. And I've seen fire code concerns expressed on other threads for ranges right against walls. If this is the existing layout, what is she proposing? Where is the door going?

Omg. That's your plan? Your going to renovate so you can have a kitchen like that?!?

OOTM - the range is actually 6" from the wall - so not right up against it, though I get that it might still be too close.

Marcolo - No! This is the EXISTING layout.

what are the dark black circle and dark black square? As you stand at the range is that a window on your right or a sliding door? What is the 29" space to the right of the fridge that is covered by a door? Are the L-shaped cabinets in the upper right movable or are they attached to a wall? I think that easy reach corner cabinets can be an excellent use of space in a small kitchen BUT I don't know where the KD is going with this AND I don't understand the current plan well enough to offer advice.

Re: corner cabinets- in any kitchen-depends. There have been recent threads with calculations of various base corner solutions.

IF deciding to turn a corner or not the rule of thumb is do not turn a corner to a run of less than 54" (I think the official number was 60 but I use 54) as there is no net gain, just increased cost.

Once the corner is turned....
The knee jerk reaction to put in a base lazy susan often is makes a layout with less usable space than an alternative. In any corner scenario it is best to look at what is stored there and the impact of the choice on adjoining cabinets.
There are plenty of situations where killing the corner completely is the best answer.

Same goes for diagonal wall cabinets and pie cut corner cabinets when that choice makes the adjoining cabinets 12" wide or worse. For wall blind corners are often more efficient and yield higher usable storage that the alternatives where you can see the stuff you can't get at.

Often in small kitchens we look into corner sink or range placement. Not always a popular choice on GW but in many cases that solution creates both more usable counter and better storage. Both those options need to be designed and evaluated carefully though. A lot of corner sinks I see are done incorrectly. Less so with ranges, I think because they are rarer and more difficult so not undertaken by a hack.

Having a range next to a wall is unfortunately not uncommon in older cities. Code is based on the range mfg specs for clearance and is typically 6". NKBA guidelines are 12 (used to be 9") Naturally it is to be avoided when possible. Last one I did that started that way we put a 24" range on an angle in the corner- still a tiny kitchen but a HUGE improvement. Doesn't appear to work in your situation though.

Practigal -

- The dark circles are floor vents - heat, intake.
-Yes, that's a window to the right of the stove.
-The 29" space is the door to the basement (landing, and steps) and to the left of that door are my ascending steps. I'm attaching a photo of the steps, basement door, fridge.

- The only "L shaped cabinet" is my peninsula.

Some of you might recognize these photos from last winter, when I first started thinking about a renovation.

Jakuvall - I always appreciate your expertise. Thank you. I've never even seen a corner range - didn't know they existed.

My KD initially gave me 5 different plan proposals, and not one of them included any corners - so I guess her stated dislike for corners in a small kitchen is one she believes strongly in, maybe to the detriment of my overall design.

i have a small kitchen and debated closing off the corners. in the end i stuck with the super susan and put in an ez reach instead of a diagonal corner cabinet. the new super susans are awesome! i like the ez reach much better than the diagonal.
there is no right answer as each person uses their kitchens differently. i just feel like i would have lost too much storage by closing the corners and i would have had very small cabinets after putting in the necessary fillers.

I have a U-shaped kitchen, with easy-reach uppers in both corners. So much better than the old diagonal uppers!

I put an angled cabinet with a super susan in one corner - I know a lot of folks here don't like angled base corners, but I really wanted a drawer on top. It also gave me a little more counter in that corner for a small MW.

The other corner is closed off, with drawers on both sides. As jakuvall said, in the end it comes down to what you need the space for. In my case, I use the drawers on each side of the corner every day, and I had other space for large, rarely used items that might go in a blind corner.

Are you open to moving the back door? I can't remember what the exterior of your house is made of. You have to wend your way around the peninsula to get from the front to the back now anyway, so maybe it wouldn't impact flow as much as it might otherwise.

Cluelessincolorado - funny you should ask. In my other post here (linked below) I shared my recent dilemma - & also the KD design on my last post. The designer's final drawing (she initially gave me five layout options to choose from, and I chose one to work with) has the door moving over to where the "leg" of the peninsula "L" is now.

I'm open to moving the door if that's the best option, but am also trying to keep costs down. My house is brick, with a stucco coating. Here's the new plan, which I may (or may not) stick with:

Here is a link that might be useful: KD Budget issue(s)

where's the range?

Like this...maybe without a hood and using a downdraft instead....this is not a photo of a real kitchen just a mock up but you can see where it is going.

Yes, corners are inefficient. You can make some okay choices for them, but none of them are perfect: A lazy susan is expensive, tempremental, and doesn't store as much as drawers. Opening a corner cabinet towards another room works well, but -- obviously -- it's best for seldom-used items. And often simply boxing it off is the best choice.

The countertop in a corner is inefficient too. If you're short like me, it's hard to reach the back of the corner, so your options are limited: You can place your microwave catty-cornered in that spot, or you can put a lazy susan on the counter so your canisters will spin around -- but, again, not perfect.

It's tough to avoid corners altogether, but your best option is to minimize them. That's why -- in the same space -- an L + island is often more efficient than a U (even though I love Us and think they're cute as can be).

As you can see from practigal's post, eliminating corners in your space also eliminates a lot of countertop.

What about this?

I changed the door to a window of the same size, which means you can keep the same header, which saves some money. It also sets up a nice arrangement where you can put the stove/hood between the now symmetrical windows. This'll be the view of the kitchen you see walking in the front door, so that will have a nice effect. It also means that you have windows over your prep counters, which means you aren't staring at a wall while prepping, which is also nice.

I moved the door to the backyard out of the kitchen entirely. It is now opposite the stairs, so non-kitchen traffic will not be forced into the kitchen.

I added a window above the sink. I know you have a budget, so this might put you over, but it would be SO nice to have a window above the sink (for the view while doing dishes and for light on two sides of the kitchen) that I think I'd cheap out on something else in order to get this. You can always upgrade cheap/old appliances or counters or hardware or light fixtures later when you have saved more, but the structure will never be easier to change than it is now. Get the walls, doors, floors, windows, electrical, HVAC, and plumbing positioned where you will want them forever, and everything else can be changed later at far less trouble, mess, and expense.

The appliance garage is supposed to be like this:

So the the counter dies into what looks like a continuous wall of cabinets with a fridge built into it.

Regarding your question about corners, this corner would be blocked off below the counter (you'd have drawers on either side), but it would have just a straight cabinet/appliance garage on one side above the counter. The other corner, I'd put a blind corner pull-out to the right of the stove and drawers to the left of the kitchen sink for primary dish storage (because it'd be easiest to unload the dishwasher into drawers right there).

Corners are not ideal for storage, but I'd rather fight with my storage a bit than have a less functional layout.

I would add that I really think you should not go with the KD's design. It has very narrow walkways in and out. Only one person could ever be cooking at one time without bumping into each other, and anybody trying to get outside would also get in the sole cook's way. At the very least, swap the door and window where she has them. That way no non-cook traffic has reason to enter the main cooking zones.

As I showed above, it is very possible to make this at least a comfortable two person kitchen with a full-size range, sink, and dishwasher. (I made the fridge 30", so that isn't full-size, but a 36" could fit if you absolutely needed that.) You don't have to go with my design, but it is proof that you could do a lot better than what your KD is suggesting.

One more:

The yellow things are upper cabinets and the floor-to-ceiling pantry cabinets.

Compared to my last suggestion:

PROS
-better storage
-no need to add the extra window (money saved)
-fridge acts as a natural divider from the other room, gives you a sense of separation

CONS
-You just have storage and appliances where they fit and work with no eye towards symmetry or balance. Walking in the front door and seeing the kitchen won't be as pretty or have the same effect as the windows flanking the stove in the other plan.
-While you can have someone cooking and someone cleaning up simultaneously, you can't really have two cooks. Really only one person can be working at or next to the stove.

Oh, back from work and there's so much to think about!

Just had a contractor come - I like him, but he hates IKEA. Oy. Also, he thought my designer's plan was the best possible use of space, so, more to consider.

Jillius - Nice work. More to think about! Where would you put a table & chairs? The space between the steps/front door/bay window is my living room.

Where do you have the table and chairs now? I didn't see that in the original plan or the KD's or in your pictures, so I didn't know it was something you wanted in the kitchen.

You could turn the bay window into a little banquette?

The table is just on the other side of the peninsula currently, and would stay there if I went with the KD plan - hence the window so I could look out while eating breakfast.

I had considered a banquette in the bay, but the window is just a few feet from the front door, & table/chairs would jut out into the living room - not to mention into the path/entry of the front door.

Thank you all so much. I think I'll start a new thread tonight or tomorrow - with pictures of my entire first floor space & a little about me & how I use the kitchen.

I posted a bunch of stuff last winter when I started thinking about this, and hoped that a search of my user name would bring back those threads, but I can't find them. I know I got a lot of really good advice from you all back then.

Excellent posts Jillius! I was hunting for that wall of cabinets concept and could not find my photo of it...but I like yours even better.

Practigal - there's a lot that I really like about your mockup - especially that the door can stay where it is. It does give us two corners - for better or worse, and there's the issue of table/chairs, which I know I have not adequately addressed in recent posts. Will address that in a future post.

Mrs.Pete - Yes, my KD managed to give me FIVE options initially, none with a single corner! I do wish I could fit an island...

I live alone, and plan to live in this house for another 20 years. So, re-sale value isn't so much of an issue, and having another person in the kitchen isn't either.

carrieb, I have a small kitchen as well, 7.5x12, and a designer also advised me not to do diagonal corner cabinets (especially upper). However, I like the look of the diagonal corner cabinet, as it gives a little variety to the 90 degree angles, and also, I wanted more space for larger items as I have few lower cabinets. I will be able to place large mixing bowls and save some lower space for pots/pans. That was more of a plus for me than the other minuses of that config.

In the lower corner, I used a super susan and like it; it was cheaper than a pull-out accessory for a blind cabinet, and I'll be able to put some larger size items there as well. Much prefer that to the plastic lazy susan with a pole down the middle both functionally and visually.

As others have said, it's helpful to plan out what you will put where. I did a little of that, wish I had done a little more. I thought it was going to be simpler, but there are so many decisions/options!

Is this the post you were looking for?
http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/kitchbath/msg0216595322621.html

Here is a link that might be useful: carrieb's post?

Thank you, cluelessincolorado! That was definitely one of them!

Clueless - I just read over that thread. I'm really glad to see that I did not abandon you all once I got the KD, and that I did run her proposals by you & utilized the input of this forum with the design the KD came up with.

Now, I'm back to thinking that maybe the KD's design really is the best I can do, given my own quirkyness and that of my house.