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robinlmorris

Layout help please

Robin Morris
9 years ago

Hello!
We are embarking on a remodel of the back part of our house which includes the kitchen. Right now we are in the design phase. We hired a designer to draw up the plans, but so far I'm not thrilled with his first attempt. I have a design I came up with on my own that I like better, but there are still a lot of things I am unsure about. I have seen all the wonderful advice regarding layouts on this forum, so I am anxious to get your input/feedback!
Some info about us: It is just the 2 of us and this is our forever house. I love to cook, and my husband is always helping (and he loves to bake). We entertain some, and we have house guests over 10% of the year. We don't use our dining table unless we have guests, yet we would like to be able to have large dinner parties/host holiday dinners. When we do have guests, everyone gravitates to the kitchen, and I never leave the kitchen.
Since this is our forever house, I want to do this right! We are already planning on removing lots of walls and moving/adding windows

Wish list:
- A well vented powerful range. If it wasn't for fire codes, I would get a professional range (right now I'm leaning towards a 36" American). This forum's faqs say that you only spend 10% of your time in the "cooking zone", but there is no way that is true for me. I swear I spend as much time at the stove as I do prepping; therefore, I do not want the stove in a place where I have my back to everyone.
-A beverage area with an espresso machine and bar (hubby's wish).
-A large prep area and a prep sink
-Seating for 4-6 in the kitchen area (preferably on an island).
-Lots of natural light
-A door from the kitchen area to the outside, so that when we grill/eat outside, running in and out of the kitchen is not cumbersome.
-An electric wall oven for baking.
-A functional layout!

Here is the existing first floor layout:

Fortunately there is no second floor over most of the space we wish to remodel; unfortunately, it is a low second floor and there is a part that juts out into the kitchen leaving a permanent "soffit" sticking out. Here is a cross section:

Here is my proposed layout:

Here is the designer's layout (there is a lot wrong with it IMO):

Here are some pictures of the existing area (with the staging furniture from before we bought it):




Thanks so much for your help! There are so many things to think about/decide!

Robin

Comments (39)

  • speaktodeek
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Using your designer's plan as reference, I'm seeing your dining room moved to the present kitchen, with the french door where the kitchen sink is. Beautiful, daylight view out your NEW kitchen sink location centered in the bay with a bay wall of windows for view from the sink. Cooktop where the french door is currently to the right of the bay window. (Probably have to lose any window there and have cooktop wall only with venting to the exterior.) Right wall becomes your pantry, fridge, etc. wall. Large island situated horizontally in that space across from the bay wall/cooktop zone. You still have access to the terrace through the french doors in the family room.

    Now you use your stuck-with-it soffit to create an architectural accent in your now dining room and for a mounting surface for some accent lighting that washes down that wall over some beautiful art, to look at as you dine.

    This brings your kitchen as the largest most prominent and least geographically cornered-in space in the home, which as you described it in your living and entertainment style, is appropriate. Room for an island where they "all eventually gather" etc. without being crammed into a corner, etc. View out the beautiful bay wall or if prepping on the island you can see the TV or fireplace. If you play your cards right perhaps you can bring the gas line inside to that new cooktop zone, and then extend a branch from there to the outside to a gas grill outside that wall on the other side, for outdoor entertaining.

  • Robin Morris
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Wow... beautybutdebtfree... you really think outside the box! That is what I love about this forum; everyone is so creative.

    There is only a 6" crawl space under the area with the carpet in the pictures ... It was an addition and is not accessible. Can you put a sink in a place where you can't access the crawlspace? I guess the plumbing could come through the wall.
    I am not sure about having the sink in the bay window... right now the bay windows are only 19 inches off the ground, so they would definitely need to be made smaller.

    Hopefully I will have time tonight to sketch up that layout and seriously consider it...

    Thanks very much for your suggestion!

    Robin

  • speaktodeek
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Sure, you can pull up the carpet and subfloor and access stuff from above, if need be. Since it's carpet, it shouldn't be that big a deal to pull up a floor. Do your work, lay back subfloor, put back in finish floor. Now, whether you can get the work you need done to fit to your local code, you would have to consult your contractor. You have to consider stuff like whether there's enough room for correct drain slope, etc.

  • Robin Morris
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hmm, so I laid out that idea, but I don't think it is going to work... It leaves me with very little cabinet space (less than I have now). There are no pantry cabinets, only 3 wall cabinets, and there is no place for an espresso machine. Also the sink in the bay window seems awkward with the angles, and I don't think I can fit the sink centered with a dishwasher (it was very hard in sketchup to do anything at an angle). There is also a lot less natural light since I loose a south facing window/glass door. Thanks for the idea though!

    Any other ideas or feedback on my layout? I really the help...

    Thanks,
    Robin

  • speaktodeek
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    OK, here's another outside-the-box idea. It does involve a slight alteration of an exterior wall. Not sure if this is an option, or if it's possible with the roof lines and structure.

    This gives you a nice view out the kitchen sink. It gets rid of that extremely awkward placement of a cooktop extending partially over a corner wall. You could still put a gas grill just outside that wall for outdoor entertaining, and have your venting just over the wall to the outside. Your pathway from sink to cooktop is pretty good.

    Dishwasher placement becomes problematic UNLESS you make the corner window sink your prep sink and your main sink on the island, which is entirely do-able, in which case your dishwasher moves to the island, and perhaps you do dishes in a drawer unit next to it on the island rather than wall cabinets.

    Ignore the placement and size/shape of the island at present. That would flow from the final other stuff.

    You could also wrap the counter into an L shape in the coffee bar corner.

    Addition of a big (I think) south facing window to the right of the coffee bar region, between coffee bar and cook top.

    This post was edited by beautybutdebtfree on Wed, Nov 12, 14 at 11:44

  • Robin Morris
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks, but I really do want to avoid modifying exterior walls (other than for windows). Here in earthquake country (the bay area), a modification like that, to an exterior structural corner, would be really really expensive. I don't think it would be worth it.
    I agree that where I put the stove is a bit awkward... I have it overlapping the wall by 24" and sticking out by 12". What if we build a wall out 12 inches? Would that make it better?

    The weirdness of the stove placement is one of the main reasons I posted. I can't seem to find a great place for it. Where I have it, is best I could come up with... The designer put it sticking out even further (but then he also put a ridiculous peninsula and the island unusably far away).

  • lavender_lass
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I like your plan! The only thing I would change (in the layout) is to move the oven/microwave to the other end of the kitchen, to give you a nice baking area...window, no window...your choice :)

    As for the island, I did scoot it to the right just a bit along with the prep sink...and make the pantry storage a bit shallower. Just a few ideas.

    From Kitchen plans

    This post was edited by lavender_lass on Thu, Nov 13, 14 at 22:04

  • marcolo
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    The corner range is redonk. How are you even going to vent that thing? Are you going to have a 42 inch canopy peeking out around the corner of the wall?

    Let's assume you keep the island with cleanup sink more or less where it is in your last posting. Put the range on the center of the back wall, just a little bit to the right of where your dishwasher is now. Put the prep sink where the range is in the diagram, across from the fridge.

    Now, you'll be able to take food from the fridge put it down behind you, and prep between sink and range. The range is furthest away from kitchen intruders, so they can not get hurt or interfere with you while you're frying something or taking something out of the oven, while the sinks and the fridge are handy for snackers and dish scrubbers.

  • ControlfreakECS
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I have to agree with Marcolo. I don't understand the purpose or benefit of having the range where you keep showing it. The back wall really is the best place. I'd probably even put a small beverage fridge and the microwave in the coffee bar/snack zone to further keep people from needing to cross the clean-up zone to get to the main fridge.

  • marcolo
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    On top of which, it's one thing to have a 15" minimum counterspace on the side of a range for emergencies. But in that room, the skinny slice of 15" will read as the front of the counter to everybody but the cook. Look for lots of people to belly up to the bar, lean over with their face and hair in the hobs, toss keys and drinks and dirty napkins onto the counter, and generally set themselves up for a major Darwin moment.

  • lavender_lass
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I'm not really sure what you can and cannot do, so I'm just going to ask...can you move the kitchen to the other side, where the family room is now? I didn't suggest this before because budget and other factors are always limiting what's possible...but if you could, would that be something you would like to try on paper?

    What's outside that wall? Would you like a better view? Since you're taking out the fireplace, could the main cook wall be on that side, with view from range out the windows? Maybe clean up sink under one and prep space under the other?

    Marcolo showed a picture a while back (didn't save it, sorry) of an island with two burners, as well as a prep sink. I thought this was a great idea, so if one is stirring sauces, it's still easy to converse with everyone at the island and beyond. But when frying chicken or other messy jobs, the range is not so close to seating. Just a few ideas :)

  • tracie.erin
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Here is a rough idea (in red) for you. I prefer the range against a wall and would simply hang a mirror over it so you can see behind you - or do a sheet of mirror glass as a backsplash behind the range only- but if you really don't like it, you can always put the range in the island instead and just center a very VERY large, double bowl sink on the top cabinet run. In that case, however, you will need to think about venting an island hood as well as deepening the island for safety purposes. And, you would be prepping with your back to everyone.

    From your pictures, it looks like this works with the soffit, too; it will simply overhang the fridge/oven wall as it currently in your pics. You can disguise that, if you like, with molding that matches the cabinetry.

  • Robin Morris
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thank you so much everyone who replied… You are all awesome for taking the time to give me feedback!

    @lavender_lass - Wow, moving to the kitchen to the other side may be the right idea (although the view is of a fence with some plants). However, all the plumbing is on the complete other side of the house (and as I mentioned earlier, there is only a 6 inch inaccessible crawl space under the area of the house that is carpeted in the pictures). I have absolutely no clue how much it would cost to run plumbing… Could anyone on the forum tell me if that would be thousands or tens of thousands? I am in the bay area, so everything is super expensive.
    We have what sounds like large budget for this project (~120-140k), but we do expect to spend most of that on structural. If the kitchen makes more sense on the other side of the house, and it is not budget breaking, I would love to do it…

    @tracie.erin - Thanks for the suggestion, but I do not think that kitchen would not be big enough for us… We have way too many gadgets and countertop appliances for that layout, but it is an interesting thought.

    @marcolo and controlfreakecs - I put the range there because I spend most of my time at the stove. If the range is on the back wall far away from everything, that is where I will be all the time not talking to any of my guests. If you look at where the range is currently in the kitchen (see the OP), there is 0 counter space to the left of the stove…. now that is ridiculous for sure! 15 inches is actually an improvement. Currently, even the zero clearance has only been a problem when I leave pan handles sticking out and then bump them. We don’t have the kind of guests that would have trouble dealing with only a 15 inch clearance.
    Also, I figured that if people can put ranges on an island, I could have it sticking out 12”. I think it could be vented either through the wall or the ceiling, and I was planning to get a custom wood hood that would fit the space and be a focal point (it would be one of the splurge items in the kitchen).
    Would it really be that bad where I have it?

    That all being said, I do not love the range where I put it, but it gives me the most functional work triangle I can come up with in the awkward space I have. I am very open to moving the range, but not to the back wall as I know that will make me very unhappy. Since I spend most of my time prepping and cooking, I prefer to keep the prepping a cooking areas towards the seating and put the clean up in the back (also it makes a sink full of dishes less conspicuous).

    So I have been thinking about places I could put the stove, and I came up with 3 more possible layouts:

    plan b - In this I moved the range to the other wall. I am not sure where hubby will put his espresso machine. I will have my back to company at the range, but at least I won’t be far away. I also tried a different shaped island at the suggestion of someone on houzz, but I think that it will be hard to talk to guests with that shape (but it is sort of cool).

    plan c - This is the same as plan a (my original idea), but with the range completely on the wall;
    I think the stove and the sink may be too close though… thoughts (the dishwasher is to the right of the sink)?

    plan d - The fridge is a bit far from everything, and I wish the space was utilized better.

    So far I still believe my original layout has the best flow/work triangle, but I will go with a different layout if no one thinks it is a good layout. Tonight I will work up a layout with the kitchen on the other side of the house as lavender_lass suggested.

    Btw, the designer came back with a plan that is my first layout:

    I think my designer and my hubby are just going to go with what ever I say… this makes me nervous as I don’t have a lot of confidence, and I’m terrified of making a costly mistake. You all are the only good source of feedback I have, so please keep the ideas and feedback (positive or negative) coming! I wish I could make you all dinner or cookies or something (if you live nearby I’d be happy to)!

    Thanks so very much,
    Robin

    This post was edited by robinlmorris on Fri, Nov 14, 14 at 21:05

  • aokat15
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hi Robin - It looks like you have a good amount of space to work with and I know you said that you don't want to add on or change any exterior walls due to structural issues, however - can I be devil's advocate for a moment and just suggest that you THINK about a small addition in the top left corner of the kitchen? Here is my thinking: you are going to be spending a lot of money on this remodel already and you said this is your forever home... so, personally, I would like to explore all of my options and draw up the dream renovated space and see how much more expensive that would be before deciding to spend 120k+ on perhaps an awkward layout just to work within the existing walls. Then, compare the costs and see if it makes sense and gets you enough benefit to consider the addition. I think for the size of kitchen you want and the entertaining feel, I think the walls of that area are tough to work around. Anyway, here is a quick mock-up but it may be something to think about...?

    This post was edited by aokat15 on Fri, Nov 14, 14 at 20:53

  • sena01
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    A variation of your plan d.

    Edit: It may be better to move the prep sink closer to the fridge side, Can be trash, sink and then cabs.

    I'm not sure about the pink boxes in the designers layout. I assumed they are beams or something like that.

    I moved the fridge closer to the range and island. I have a shallow tall cab next to fridge facing the dining room. It can be for brooms or cookbooks or china, etc. There can be a MW shelf next to fridge or you can have the MW in the island. I reduced the size of the deck door and have the cleanup sink, DW at the back wall. Bar area, wall oven and shallow pantry cabs are at the long wall. Added an UTC fridge in the bar area.

    This post was edited by sena01 on Sat, Nov 15, 14 at 5:47

  • Robin Morris
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    @ aokat15- Thanks, but we really don’t want to add on… it would be way too expensive where we live. Besides, we have enough living space… 1900 square feet for 2 people is a ton of space. We just need to find a way to use it effectively.

    @sena01 - Thanks for the idea, but I showed DH the alternate plans today, and he is not a fan of plan d… so I think that one is out. I like how you have cabinets of varying depth... I want to incorporate that into a design somehow. Also I love your modeling tool! Sketchup is cumbersome.

    So I did a plan with the kitchen on the other side of the house (at lavendar_lass's suggestion), and DH and I are starting to think that putting the kitchen on the other side of the house is the way to go (assuming it is feasible and not exuberantly expensive).
    Here is layout with the kitchen on the other side:

    There are skylights over most of where I have the kitchen, so there will be lots of natural light (see the skylights in my OP). The living room and dining room seem to fit perfectly into the current awkward kitchen space leaving me a blank slate for the kitchen. It also will save us the hassle/cost of adding another door (and stairs down), and we would be changing less windows.

    Being that it is a large blank slate, I am not sure about the placement of anything… the possibilities seem endless.
    DH said he would really like an island where 3-4 people could sit and one one side and 2 on the other, that is why I did the island like that.
    What do you all think about moving the kitchen to the other side? How should I lay it out (feedback on my attempt)?

    Thanks again!
    Robin

  • aokat15
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hi Robin - I completely understand! I was just thinking that if you were going to look into the cost of moving the whole kitchen it may be in the same ballpark as the small addition, but you definitely do have a lot of space to work with already so I hope moving the kitchen will make this all work!

    Some thoughts on your new floorplan - the scale of some of the spaces seems out of proportion... the kitchen and office/guest bedroom are so large compared to the cramped dining and living space and then there are some wasted areas in between. What would you think about making your current kitchen or the space you now have drawn as your TV area as the bedroom/office? You then have the bathroom in the utility room right next to it. Then use that large room with the fireplace as the family room? Something kind of like this:

    Again just some thoughts... Happy planning!

    This post was edited by aokat15 on Sun, Nov 16, 14 at 10:34

  • sjhockeyfan325
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    The one thing I'd definitely get rid of in the latest design is the little peninsula attached to the island. It doesn't see to serve any function other than to make it certain the person closest to that peninsula would be locked in and uncomfortable at the island.

    How wide is the island? It looks disproportionately wide to me.

  • Karenseb
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    You could try your stove top on a peninsula. You would definitely be part of the action and you could have upper cabinets on the sink wall to the right for baking supplies.

  • speaktodeek
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Wow Karen, that's a super interesting idea. She does want external venting, so perhaps tweak it where the cooktop is switched with the sink position, approximately. This would entail adjusting that window on the left hand corner of the sink so the cooktop could be placed along that wall. (Not a corner location for the cooktop, but sort of centered along that left wall.)

    What I really like about this layout is that it gives her the big entertaining counter for all the friends to gather at, while retaining a nice view from the sink out that patio door (assuming now the sink is where your cooktop is shown and she retains the original plan of a slider/french door straight on from that view. She would also get that wall of bay windows view as well from that sink position.

    This post was edited by beautybutdebtfree on Sun, Nov 16, 14 at 14:47

  • GauchoGordo1993
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I like that layout overall, but one concern I'd have is inconvenient dishwasher unload, esp. for glassware. So I suggest you think that use case through.

  • speaktodeek
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Lots of folks are using dish and glass drawers now. That is one solution.

  • GauchoGordo1993
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    We put plates and bowls in large drawers beside the DW and like it. Decided not to put glassware in drawers, but I know some folks like that. But assuming you're OK with drawers or wall cabs for everything, where would DW and everyday dishes go in this layout, and how obstructive and/or inconvenient would it be to load & unload DW?

    When I did our kitchen layout a couple years ago, I found DW placement to be the most difficult piece of the puzzle. Several candidate layouts were rejected only because DW load/unload obstructed prep or required too much schlepping to stowe everyday dishes.

    Anyhow, I suggest you at least include the DW in sketches.

  • marcolo
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Locate a cleanup sink on the back or side wall, and put the dishwasher there. Otherwise that sink will become a detritus magnet.

    Also don't make people pass by the oven to get to the fridge.

  • Robin Morris
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I am hosting a dinner party tonight (wish I had any of these layouts over mine for all this cooking), so my response will be typed quickly (sorry if there is rambling or errors)...
    @aokat15 - Would moving the kitchen really be that expensive? An addition here is really pricey.. Because of all walls we are removing and retrofitting, we will have to have to do foundation work and have the whole back of the house torn up.... Would running the plumbing and electric really be that $$$? As to using that front room as a living room, I really want the living room open to the kitchen. There is no sun light in that front room because the window is facing north west (the corner window that you put in the closet is facing south at our lovely persimmon TV). I also want the room set up primarily to watch TV (and a TV over the fireplace is too high). I do plan on using that room as a living room (sofa bed)/guest room/office, so I will have couches in there too.

    @beautybutdebtfree and Karenseb - That is a nice layout, but i don't love that I can't see my guests from the stove. I also don't like the flow... I think running back and forth from
    outside to the kitchen will be not fun (dodging the island and guests). I had an experimental layout like that at one point, but ruled it out for those reasons.

    @sjhockeyfan - you are totally right... that is what you get when you create layouts at 1:30am... I am working on a layout with the peninsula gone... will post it tonight. The island is 67" wide: enough for 2 counter chairs one direction and a chair from the other direction. The room is so big that I would like to use the space (as long as I can reach to the center, so max 6 feet). DH is thinking maybe bar height seating would be better ... he may be right...

    Anyway, we are really getting excited about moving the kitchen to the other side of the house... so I am going to focus on layouts over there. Thanks a ton!

    Robin

  • lyfia
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I have to say of all the versions aokat's seems to me to have some really good possibilities as it has much less awkward things about it overall. You could update it to be more open between kitchen and living room. The cost could be high though depending on how far you have to run the plumbing to be able to drain it.

    I can understand wanting good light, but you mentioned it being for TV watching and with that I would want something where the sun wouldn't interfere with that. Nice light in the office would be something I'd rather have.

  • Robin Morris
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    @lyfia - I played around with that idea, but there is no place to put the TV in that room if I opened up that wall because the 3 other walls have either a door, giant window, or giant fireplace. Also, then I only have one wall to use in the kitchen, so there are too few cabinets without that wall there.

    I have no idea how much it would cost to move the kitchen... Not sure how to find out either... I wish I had a ball park... I have no idea if it would be 5k, 10k or 50k... I would guess I need about 50 feet of plumbing.

    Here is a better layout than the one earlier..
    I may decide to flip the living room and the dining room.

    Thanks,
    Robin

  • aokat15
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Robin - do you need to add a full bath if you have one down the other hall by the laundry room?

    Also, can a TV be put over the fireplace? Or in a large built-in next to the fireplace (you could have them made to have a desk on one side and the TV stored on the other).

    How do you feel about the fireplace not being centered in the room? If you add the bath it seems a little funny to me with the hallway to the kitchen and then the fireplace off center.

  • aokat15
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Ok - here is another thought... what about putting the dining room in front of the house with a butler's pantry (could also be a coffee area?) in between and move the office to it's own area with maybe french doors? Something like this:

    If you don't need a full bath, here is an option that adds a walk-in pantry:


    I still think that you really need to be careful of your proportions in whatever layout you go with. I love a large kitchen, but still pay a lot of attention to the function and flow of your other spaces and make sure they aren't sacrificed for a few extra feet in the kitchen. For example - I took the last layout and just moved the refrigerator wall over a few feet and made the island a little bit smaller. Still a massive island and kitchen, but maybe this is a little better in terms of allocating the space.

    Also, back to the bathroom - adding a bathroom is expensive. I would definitely explore updating the one you have on that floor before adding a second one. Those $$ could be better spent elsewhere.

    This post was edited by aokat15 on Mon, Nov 17, 14 at 9:44

  • atmoscat
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    It might be worthwhile to find a GC to give you a ballpark idea of the costs to move the kitchen to the front of the house vs. to bump out that corner in the back so you can go with aokat's plan with the kitchen in the back. It seems like they might be quite comparable.

    The kitchen in the back looks like a better use of space. The space is deeper, so the island fits in the kitchen area rather than sticking out in front of the bay window. That way, you can still put the dining area in front of the bay. The back space also has fewer doors to deal with.

    On your current plan, would it be possible to expand the bathroom in the back? The new bathroom placement is pretty awkward. If you keep it there, at least have that bathroom open to the hallway rather than that tight passageway.

  • Robin Morris
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks for the help!
    So I am not a big fan of walls... my ideal house would be one big room with 3 bedrooms either upstairs or off to the side. I would not want the dining room walled off from the kitchen... I know some people prefer it that way.
    Regardless, my designer said (in an email) that he thinks moving the kitchen would be prohibitively expensive, so it sounds like it will not matter... I don't understand plumbing well enough to understand why.... I am definitely disappointed.

    Bumping out the wall would likely be too expensive too and mean loosing valuable garden space, so not a great option either.
    @atmoscat- the house layouts I am posting are from the left side of the house... the bay window is in the back of the house... but I see how it could be confusing from what I posted.

    Actually think I am going to go back and entertain beautybutdebtfree's idea of having the stove at an angle... I think our roof line would cover it and may not be nearly as expensive as moving the kitchen or doing a bump out....

    As to the bathroom... there is no way to make the existing downstairs bathroom not suck. The ceiling is only 81" and the shower is 30"x30"... none of that is fixable. As our parents age, I would really like to have a guest bedroom and full bathroom downstairs. And now that our siblings and friends are having babies, I'd like a bath for bathing kids that is not ours... Where I put it is the only place I could think to put it. I placed it open to the room that would be the occasional guest bedroom as I thought it would be inconvenient to have it open to the hallway, but I am not sure; I guess I don't consider 6.5' a tight passageway. Also, adding the bathroom is likely a later project, but I wanted to get the plans for it now in case we can get it done in our budget (and so it is considered in the current work).

    The only thing I am sure of is that I am unsure of everything!

    Thank you all for your time, patience, and help... it is very much appreciated. This stuff is so hard.

    Robin

    This post was edited by robinlmorris on Tue, Nov 18, 14 at 3:32

  • tracie.erin
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I do like the corner range idea beautybutdebtfree came up with.

    Also, re mine - you have *plenty* of room in the Pantry for some more counter for your gadgets. Maybe along the left wall, and the top left half of the top wall under the existing windows? Putting those in there would make things less cluttered in the main area, too. But I understand if it's just not your cup of tea :)

  • lyfia
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    So if you are getting another bath then how about knocking out the existing bathroom and claiming that space into the kitchen. Would make it wide enough to actually have an island in the current kitchen space and not make it so far removed.

    I would consider if you need the exterior side door into the utility room or if you could move it into the garage instead. Then you could maybe improve on the existing bath by claiming some of the space from the utility room, or claim the space for the kitchen.

  • Robin Morris
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    So I came up with every layout I could think of.. so many weird ones with different walls removed, whole rooms swapped, etc… (many taken/inspired by the great ideas on this forum); I was up to layout L! Then I took a break from the laying out for a few days and slept on it for a while :)

    DH and I looked at all the layouts, but kept coming back to my original layout (plan a, the one with the stove sticking out) as it will be the cheapest (no moving plumbing far) and is more functional (for cooking) than all of the other layouts...
    Finally I had an idea to make the stove work: a build a wall and hide it with a full height cabinet. The stove will stick out 9" from the original wall (I had 12” in the original plans) and we can build the new wall out 12”. This will make the hood completely on the wall and give me 18” counter to the left of the stove. On the other side of the new wall we can build a buffet looking bar thing like:

    [

    [(https://www.houzz.com/photos/beach-residence-traditional-kitchen-jacksonville-phvw-vp~2613057)

    [Traditional Kitchen[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/traditional-kitchen-ideas-phbr1-bp~t_709~s_2107) by Jacksonville Interior Designers & Decorators Studio M Interior Design, Inc.

    Here is what it looks like in my 3d modeling tool (ignore the colors and specific cabinets as sketch up doesn’t have a lot of models/textures to choose from; it is only good for spacial planning)


    Here is the layout as it stands now; I am still unsure of a lot of things like the exact size/location of the windows, where to put the fridge, the island shape, and how to put in doors to the living room/guest room.

    The island shape is supposed to look like this (but sketch up is a b**ch with curves):

    I am also considering this island shape:

    Thanks for all the help… all the ideas forced me to think outside of the box and led me to be more creative. And now I know I have considered every possible configuration for our downstairs :)
    Not sure if I should start another thread to figure out my remaining questions (fridge placement is a big one). Any opinions? You folks have been great!

    Oh, and to respond to lyfia, the bathroom ceiling is lower than the kitchen, so we can’t extend into it. We’d like that new bathroom because DH’s best friend is 6’4 and the current guest bathroom’s shower is too small for him to stand in… He is coming next week and will have to share the master bath.

    Thanks,
    Robin

  • ControlfreakECS
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Ok, so I can see why this works best for you.

    The little things: why is the trash between sink and DW? I would put the trash on the other side of the sink. I know that means the sink will be off center from the window, but it will actually make it more centered on the wall, which I think will look fine and also provide a better secondary prep space between that sink and the stove. Plus, loading a DW over a trash can sounds like a PITA. Also, with island so far from cleanup, you'll want another trash in the prep zone, so find a spot on the island.

    I'd definitely move the prep sink away from the center. Toward the coffee bar seems to make the most sense to me, so it can be used in that area. I also like the rectangular shape better if you really want seating for 5, they just fit better and it encroaches less on your living space.

    I'd also switch fridge and ovens. I'd want the ovens more on the interior of the cooking space and the fridges closer to landing space on the island. I have a peninsula/primary prep located behind my fridge and I basically pivot when taking things out and set them right down, it works great.

  • practigal
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I really like your initial layout. The only thing that I would do would be to extend the wall so that the stove and hood have a back all the way across. You will lose a little bit of counterspace and a little bit of cabinet space but I think it would be well worth it. You might want to extend the landing area to the left of the stove.

    What is behind the refrigerator wall? Can that room become a large walk-in pantry for you?

    If one of the reasons you were attracted to this house/kitchen was having the windows in the corner, I would stick with that otherwise I would give serious consideration to centering both the window and the kitchen sink.

    I would put the trash under the area between the sink and the stove as this will be your main prep area.

  • Robin Morris
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    @controlfreaksecs - I should have mentioned not to look at the black and white layout other than for the island shape. If you look at my layout and the two 3d images, I do not have the trash bin between the dishwasher and the sink… I agree that it is bad idea. My designer put it there; he is clearly not a KD. Also there is no room for a trash bin there unless I do a blind corner cabinet like he did (and I hate those). I am planning on finding a place for a trash center on the island and maybe keeping a small trash can under the clean up sink as well. So IOW, I agree with you completely :)

    As for the prep sink… thanks for bringing this up… I am very torn about where to put it. I agree with you that over by the wet/coffee bar makes a lot of sense, but then marcolo is going to jump on this thread and tell me I am not paying attention and that it is Ice, Water, Stone, Fire and not Ice, Stone, Water, Fire and tell me to move the prep sink over towards the fridge :)
    I am paying attention, but I am not sure that if it would be a big deal to have to walk by my prep area to get to the prep sink, and it sure would be nice to have a sink near the bar area. I put it in the center as a compromise, but I am not sure I like it there. Opinions?

    Yeah... the rectangular island may be nicer (It is almost large enough to sit 6). My concern is that the rectangle island gives me less of a walk way between the dining room table and the island to get to the door to the outside.

    So should I put the wall oven, then the pantry in the middle, and then the fridge? It would certainly be nice to have the island right behind the fridge for landing, but I worry that it would be hard to get to the main part of kitchen if someone is in the fridge. We do want a french door fridge, so maybe it won’t be too obtrusive. The space between the island and wall is 78”, so 33-35” deep french door fridge with doors open… wonder how much that will stick out.

    Super thanks controlfreaksecs… You addressed so many things I’ve been wondering about. It is great to have other’s opinions to consider.

    @practigal - In the layout I posted last night I have the wall extended behind the range and hood… did you mean extend it further? Also, I do have the sink centered under the window in my last layout… centering the window on the wall will not gain me symmetry because there is a soffit (my second floor) slicking out of the right wall. The area behind the pantry is the hallway that leads to my awkward bathroom, laundry room/pantry, and garage.
    Once I get that new bathroom downstairs, I hope to make the weirdo bathroom part of the existing laundry room/pantry. That is how it was in the original house… the last owner added the bathroom.

    I think I have too many layouts on this thread…. it is getting confusing. Maybe I'll start a new thread this weekend to help me with the last few details of the floorplan… Thanks a ton!

    Robin

  • practigal
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I like your most recent layout, I see now that you have added the "fake wall" and moved the sink. I also see that you're referencing that funny area in the back- pantry- hallway- bathroom....have you considered putting a doorway through and making a walk-in pantry? The logical place for such a doorway would be the current fridge wall. By completing the kitchen first and then dealing with that space later you are foreclosing certain possibilities. (I recognize there is only so much renovating that a person can do at one time but I just wanted to make sure you have thought through that you are making commitments as to the use of both the kitchen area and that space).

  • Robin Morris
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I see your point practigal...
    What I will actually do with that bathroom is not something I've thought too much about. So at your suggestion I thought more about it :)
    And I realized that making it a pantry for food would not really be useful to us. We eat mostly meat and fresh veggies; we don't really use many canned goods or pantry items. Currently, I only have some cans of tomatoes and a bag or two of rice in our laundry room pantry (there is room for a ton more). We should probably make it a wine cellar someday (we have over 100 bottles in our growing collection).

    Thanks for making me think!
    Happy Thanksgiving