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lookintomyeyes83

Help - no better than my apartment!

lookintomyeyes83
9 years ago

I'm in love with our current house plan (a giant rectangle with a kitchen in the lower-left corner), but once i allowed for a giant front kitchen window, I've realized that the kitchen really isn't any better than my current tiny apartment kitchen!

Any suggestions? Is it possible to make it functional?
Im struggling with options because:
- we're building with ICF so Im trying to limit random bumpouts (also because I'm not a fan of a million gables\hips jutting out)
- we would prefer to use accesible cabinets, which will further reduce storage
- we NEED the full size fridge, and full size freezer. We live outside the city, garden, and grocery shop once every 2 weeks. So the freezer si always full. We have a full size one in our apartment next to the fridge, and I couldnt' live without it.

Note: the entry foyer is to your right, and the dining room to the top.

Comments (44)

  • _sophiewheeler
    9 years ago

    Why is there so much wasted space on the ginormous entry? All of the rest of the rooms are bordering on the too small a dcould use that space more productively Like the DR. It's way too skinny in proportion for such a long length. The LR and kitchen are both cozy because of the closed in space. An open plan would allow them to feel more expansive. Or more actual square footage. Some space planning conundrums can only be solved with more room.

    To make the kitchen work harder, you would need more space to make it larger, and add in a secondary source of water in the right location. Right now, it's a good size for one butt, except that the island is in the way of everything. It's a barrier, not a real aid to anything.

    The whole plan needs reworking.

  • Jillius
    9 years ago

    I would do this:

    1) I closed the entrance from the foyer for two reasons.

    a) It's unusual to see the kitchen first thing when you walk in a house -- usually people prefer that rooms that stay more presentable to be the first impression.

    b) This gave you a big wide opening to your kitchen. We also have a u-shaped kitchen like this with a very wide opening on one side like that, and it's so nice. It's completely impossible for a person or door or anything to block anyone else entering/exiting the kitchen. It also makes the kitchen feel enormous and spacious and easy.

    2) I widened your window so that the wall cabinets would naturally die into the corner instead of turning it. When you have a little bit of wall on either side of the window the way you had it, it causes a very common problem, which is that it looks weird if your uppers don't turn the corner, but it also looks weird if they do because you can only fit a corner cabinet and nothing next to it to it. Corner cabinets that do not have at least one normal cabinet on either side look really odd.

    The way I have it, you have a more dramatic window and an obvious, natural way end to your upper cabinets.

    3) I moved the stove down so you have more counter space between the sink and cook top. This is usually everybody's favorite prep spot, so it's where you want as much counter as possible.

    4) I stole some space from the foyer so the counter with the fridge can be extra-deep. That's already going to be a big appliance for a small space -- you don't want it to feel like it's looming/encroaching.

    This post was edited by Jillius on Tue, Oct 21, 14 at 22:39

  • lookintomyeyes83
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Hollysprings - thats not a island, its just a fluourescent light. Sorry, my bad!

  • lookintomyeyes83
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Jillius - i hadnt thought of closing off the kitchen from the front door, but you're right - we don't *need* guests to see it, so that might be a workable option!

    I'll give it a try - though I'd probably still want to add a door of some sort (even if its a pocket one) to close off the space... hubby and I REALLY hate open-concept, which is why the house has alot of walls. ;)

  • ci_lantro
    9 years ago

    Humongrous entry and no coat closet.

    Refrig & Freezer in kitchen...+1. But no pantry???

    The dining room? I had one that was 9' wide & it made me crazy because it wasn't wide enough. Mine had a huge window in it and it still felt claustrophobic. Yours is only 9" wider and no window. It's way out of proportion, width to length. And, are you sure it's 9'9" wide? It looks like it is the same width as the entry--8'4". I suspect an error in the dimensions of either the entry or the dining room.

    Oh, and what is all the white area over the cooker? Some kind of cooking niche? If so, you can recover some more functional space with a less ambitious design.

  • Jillius
    9 years ago

    I would make sure that pocket door can be opened very wide, otherwise you'd lose the functional benefit of how easily people can pass each other. The fridge opens into the doorway, and there'd be a person standing in front of it when the door is open, so you want enough room that someone else can still walk by even that kind of obstruction.

    If the one doorway I left gets too small, you'll really miss the second doorway I got rid of (for someone to use when the other doorway is blocked).

    May I ask what the objection is to open-concept? I'd not even consider what I suggested to be open concept, so it'd help if you defined what you don't like a little more.

  • funkycamper
    9 years ago

    I love the changes Jillius made. It makes for much better use of space and a nicer flow.

    And I agree that the dining room is too narrow to be comfortable for seating. Seriously too narrow. Most designers recommend an absolute minimum of 24" from the edge of the table to the wall to allow for someone to slide back a chair and get in/out comfortably. If someone may need to walk behind the chair, an absolute minimum of 36" from table to wall is recommended. Note: those are absolute minimums. If you plan to put a typical 44-46" wide table there, you do barely have the minimum but it won't be comfortable for entertaining.

    We also depend on a freezer but we keep it in the garage. Is there any reason why you need it in the kitchen?

  • sheloveslayouts
    9 years ago

    I rather like your floor plan, however, I'd remove the wall between the dining room and living room for easier access around the dining table. I like a separated kitchen, and if you're bringing groceries in from the front door, the kitchen entryway off the foyer makes sense. I'm also find of kitchens at the front right now because we have a great view out the back that I wanted for the living space and kitchen-in-front floor plan examples are hard to find.

    Our house has similar square footage in the kitchen/living/dining. Its a 3 bed, 2 bath and only 1200 square feet as well as a true rectangle. Is this house around 1200? The double front doors seem silly to me and those I know who have had them, hate them. Maybe its always been on your wish list, but that foyer area could probably be made more efficient without those double doors.

    This looks like a cool project to me. I'll be following along.

  • blfenton
    9 years ago

    No opinion on the floorplan right now (it's late and I have too many questions) but I just want to say that my DR is 9'9" X 16' with sliding glass doors at one end and a side entrance at the other end from the kitchen and it doesn't look out of proportion nor is it awkward too use. Just an opinion.

  • Jillius
    9 years ago

    I only just noticed this -- is that an island underneath all the blue text? I would eliminate the island. It will only get in the way and make things feel cramped.

  • lookintomyeyes83
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Lots of replies, thank you all!

    - The interior finished-wall-to-finished-wall is 9'9 in the width, and 16'4 in the length. Id had 10ft width and then squished it slightly, but could easily put it back to 10', or possibly a bit more. We prefer smaller sized chairs (reg 'dining' chairs, none of those huge sofa-style ones.)
    Based on the 4' table + 3ft on each side, it is/was designed to 10 ft.

    The kitchen is in the front of the house to take advantage of the morning sun.

    - The north wall of the dining room is a large bank of windows (not a door!), (oriented roughly SW) to take advantage of the beautiful setting sun as dinner parties wind to a close.

    - there is a coat closet just to the right (~5ft) of the entry, near a set of stairs.

    - As for the dislike of open concept - my husband and I are very messy in the kitchen, and we generally have an everybody-in, or everybody-out desire for guests in the kitchen. Typically tho, its for dinner parties and gingerbread house decorating, so the dining room is used more than the kitchen. In general, we also tend to have alot of 'stuff' that we like to have on display on the walls (incl cabinets), and open concept destroys that opportunity for us. I'm also a very light sleeper and wake easily - walls help reduce that somewhat.

    As for the needing the freezer in the kitchen - we use it for EVERY meal, quite literally. And to store frozen dinners we grab for lunch, etc. The little freezer above a reg freezer would never do! And I'd hate to have to ditch into another space to grab something every morning before work. My parents had their freezer in the basement and i hated it with a passion, heh!

    no island in the middle (hate those things as well, i tend to bump into them taking imaginary shortcuts) - that's just a fluourscent light.

    - the long wall adj to the dining/living room is there because we have two tapestries we own we wish to display in the dining room - one is 7' long x 4ft deep, the other is 4ft wide x 2.5ft deep.

    Hope that clarifies/explains, keep the comments coming :)

  • ci_lantro
    9 years ago

    A galley kitchen in the dining room space?

  • lookintomyeyes83
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    I'm also curious why the foyer is deemed 'large'?
    My apartment has a 6ft square landing space when I enter it, and trust me, when I have 4-6 friends all standing in that space and chatting for an hour, it's not huge!
    (Guests always hover/linger before leaving, we're huge talkers ;) )

    Oh, I'll also note for others: this is our forever home. It is largely designed for wheelchair accessibility, but we adknowledge the dining room table will be replaced when that becomes necessary. (Similarly, the coffee table in the living room will be removed. We intend to still have side tables next to that 7ft long Victorian couch tho.)

  • lookintomyeyes83
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    For Hollysprings, I should probably also add that the 'living room' is more of a formal parlor. The actual entertaining space is down a large set of stairs to the right of the entry. :)

  • scrappy25
    9 years ago

    The U idea and closing off the one door with a wide door to the DR is brilliant.

    If that living room is a parlor and you are going to entertain elsewhere, definitely consider widening that dining room and taking space from the parlor; that is your only eating area that you will be using every day and if you are planning accessibility, the 36 inches behind the seated diner is rough.

    See NKBA guidelines below.
    from http://starcraftcustombuilders.com/kitchen.design.rules.htm
    Rule 8

    Note that restaurant guidelines use 36 inches for a seated wheelchair in a booth so based on the above you would need at least 4 more inches (40 inches) on each sideof the table for a person "sliding by" a seated wheelchair user, but that would be a squeeze.

    This post was edited by scrappy25 on Wed, Oct 22, 14 at 8:58

  • practigal
    9 years ago

    I have a 10 foot wide dining room and it is a really tight space. When entertaining people do love to crowd together in small spaces (which would explain why people end up crowding your entryway) but it is inconvenient too. You may want to consider opening up the dining living room space so that you have a separate area for a buffet so that dishes can be laid out and guests can serve themselves, which they will be unable to do when everyone is sitting at a table with that little space around it. You will either need to prepare each plate individually in the kitchen and serve the plates from the kitchen or serve everything family-style and you will have to a do a lot more running back and forth to the kitchen because the guests won't be able to leave their seats without some inconvenience. You could still have the sofa and chairs in that space, but furniture placement would be more forgiving. Also you may want to flip the living and dining space, that reduces the guests view into the kitchen area and if the TV were in the living space it would allow the person in the kitchen to watch that while there's a big game on. Do you really need a room that you are already referring to as the "formal parlor"? We had one of those when I was a child, and it was a huge waste of space. If you are intending to make this house truly wheelchair accessible what will you do with the stairs - is there enough space in their current location to install an elevator later?

  • lookintomyeyes83
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    @Practigal - there is an elevator designed into the floor plan, so the stairs will be OK. We really wanted a 'descend into the dungeon rec space' of our Castlehaus.
    The parlor will be well-used for 'tea dates' with friends, without any tvs or such things for distractions, while the downtstairs will be used for movies, dance parties, crafting, game nights, etc. So two very different use for the spaces.

    Is a 4ft table not large enough for serving dishes in the middle, that a buffet must be required?
    If a table is 4ft wide, and plates are 12" diameter, that is 2 ft in the middle of the table, which I would consider plenty for placing serving dishes, no?

    Our home will be 100% pet and children-free, (yes we are DINKs) except on rare occasions where people bring their children, so I'm not designing my home for gross-informality. If necessary, children will go play in athe basement craft room, that is meant to be 'easily replaceable if damaged'

    I get what people are saying about being concerned 3ft between edge of table and wall is too small though, so I think I'll set up my current dining table 3ft from the wall tonight and see how it affects mobility.

  • nancyjwb
    9 years ago

    I like your plan and I can totally agree with wanting a kitchen window facing east! Love that morning sun and evening shade! I agree with opening up your living room and dining room, but only you know what will work the best for you and your lifestyle. Enjoy the process, looks like fun!:)

  • bpath
    9 years ago

    I imagine you'll use the parlor a lot. So nice to have a quiet spot for reading or writing or visiting next the the kitchen, but out of view:)

    We have a 13'- wide dining room, and 40" from the table edge to a buffet. I wouldn't want less than 40" for that. Without a buffet , which gives a little elbow room, I'd certainly want 44" to a solid wall. Especially if there's a tapestry people don't want to brush against.

    The nice thing about a buffet is, even if you have the serving bowls on the table, it's nice to shift them to the buffet when they're empty; the next wine bottle is at the ready; the water jug doesn't take up visual height on the table; lighting on the side allows you to dim the chandelier and still have consistent lighting; and dessert plates and utensils are at the ready.

    Loving the east light in the kitchen. Loving a big dining room window, BUT, the afternoon light can be intense and you'll want to close the curtains. Consider window film to lessen the heat an UV. We did this in a west-facing living room and it made a big difference: I no longer had to draw the curtains in the afternoon.

    Where is your pantry for non-perishables?

  • lookintomyeyes83
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    @bpathome - I actually have a small library with a door (to be either glass or wrought iron) that will house my large book collection, and my desk for quiet contemplation!

    Hubby and I are torn on the buffet - he's not a fan of them or the space they take up...but even if we forgo the buffet, increasing the dining room from table-to-wall distance from 2'6 to 3'6 wouldn't be terribly difficult.

    A friend send me a link that shows where sun will hit your house depending on lat/long, and time of year and day...I will try that I think to see how badly the evening sun will affect us - we're not true-west, so hopefully it's not terrible, but knowing about the window film is a good option!

    For a pantry, I'd love either a pullout pantry, or stacked a tall stack of drawers, with some cabs above - I hate rooting in deep cupboards to find the cans! It doesn't/shouldn't be huge though - DH already gets annoyed I buy 'enough food for the apocalypse' and it goes bad before we use it up. We use our freezer MUCH more than canned/dry goods. I don't eat peanut butter, or cereal, and pastas are easily re-bought every 2 weeks when grocery shopping. Any pantry will likely be overwhelmed with the baking supplies that drive my DH nuts, lol.

  • funkycamper
    9 years ago

    Our dining room table is 45" wide so just 3" narrower than what you're planning on and for just a small dinner party, 4-6 people, putting all the food in the middle of the table usually works fine. But if I'm serving more people and, thus, putting in more leaves (I have 4 leaves and can seat up to 12), there isn't enough room for all the food on the table. Since I do have a buffet, I use that as bpathome described. I also bought a nice serving trolley that folds up for easy storage when not needed which I will also set near me when entertaining large groups. If you don't want a buffet, maybe something like that would help.

    Do you have a large selection of serving bowls/trays and dishes? Do you have enough room to store them in your kitchen if you're not going to have a buffet, hutch or some other place to store them?

    My dining room is 12 feet wide and my buffet, along one wall, is 18" deep, making my space for dining and walking around 10.5" and I think it's way too narrow. We're doing the opposite of you and tearing down walls to make an open concept which will allow me to move my buffet and have the entire 12 feet for just the table/chairs and I am so happy to have more space. I'm sure I'll be using that serving trolley more now.

    While the current width works, it is crowded and anybody with mobility issues can have a really hard time with it so we have to ensure that they are seated in specific chairs to allow them more space to maneuver. It works but it's not super comfortable. I would definitely take from the formal parlor and widen the dining room.

    Regarding window film: I've read that some of them, especially the cheaper ones, can cause thermopane windows to get too hot and cause problems with the seal. I'm no expert on this but you might want to explore this issue further to make sure you're not doing something that will damage your windows.

    If you are concerned about a messy kitchen intruding on your dining experience, you might consider something like curtain panels or shoji doors which can close off your kitchen without being intrusive into the space. Or nice sliders. Maybe something with frosted glass windows which will allow some light between the two spaces?

    If you really need the freezer in the kitchen, maybe a smaller one with a bigger one in your garage/basement/wherever? So you only need to transfer items every few days and not for each meal? This would give you more storage space in the kitchen itself. Maybe even allow room for that pantry for baking supplies.

  • lookintomyeyes83
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    funkycamper - thank you for the comments about your similar space - its good to have comments about 'actual use and feel'.

    Our house will have an old-world French and/or Victorian feel, and we were hoping to do very fancy paneling on the walls, floor, and ceiling (as I learned carpentry from my dad and think it will be fun to make), so door style is a huge consideration for us.
    I may be able to live with a 4ft wide opening tho - wide enough for a person+ a bit more, but not open to the entire kitchen.

    I really do need the full upright freezer tho - just the thought of having to 'transfer' things drives me batty. I love to bake, but only bake rarely (in order to keep my waistline from ever-expanding, heh), so I'd rather have to run to a pantry then to a freezer.

  • lookintomyeyes83
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Update: went home and measured - I actually currently have 3'2" (recommended minimum to access chairs plus allow for passage behind the chairs.)
    This actually feels quite 'right' to me.

    If i do want to walk by the right side to get to the kitchen, i could understand possibly going up 3'6 (minimum) to allow for serving from behind the chair. I still don't want a buffer, so i dont need to allow room to open the china cabinet drawers, etc.

    That puts the dining room at a width of 46" + 3'2" + 3'6" = 126", or 10.5ft.
    I think i can take that space out of the parlor and still be happy with it. :)

    Still taking comments/suggestions for kitchen layout tho!

    So for a 46" wide table,

  • Jillius
    9 years ago

    I don't think your entry is comically massive or anything, but I do think any space you could spare from it would be better allotted to the kitchen. The wider you can make the sink wall, the more usable counter space you'd have (especially nice to have in the prep space between the sink and stove). That wall also has all the windows, so it's the nicest part of the kitchen to work at and provides the most light. Basically, the wider it is, the better.

    Also, the larger you can make all of the kitchen, the less massive/intrusive the very large fridge and pantry would feel.

    So while you are measuring, I'd determine what the minimum size is that you'd be okay with the entry's being, and then make it that.

    For more or better suggestions, you'd need to show us the whole floor's plan.

  • lavender_lass
    9 years ago

    Naween- Can you post the entire plan? I am curious to see more details, especially after the 'parti' we talked about, on the Building a Home forum.

    Your kitchen is on the small side, but I wonder if it really fits your overall theme. Are you using any details to make it feel more 'castle' like?

    I also wonder what's behind the dining room? Is it the view to the back? Would it be possible to move the dining room to the front (off the entry) and push the kitchen to the back?

    While east light is great in a kitchen, it would also be nice for breakfast dining. And...it might be nice to have a 'buter's pantry' between the two spaces, if there's room. Just a few ideas :)

  • carsonheim
    9 years ago

    I quite like what Jillius did.

    Separate question: why a giant fluorescent light? Surely you can find something more attractive at a decent price point...

  • brightm
    9 years ago

    I'd love to get that link for the sun rise/set thing. I could google, but...

    Not much to add to what others have said. My first instincts were what others said: large entry stealing space from more productive areas, wouldn't want entry into kitchen from foyer, depending on whether that's also the family entry or just a guest entry.

  • lookintomyeyes83
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    caronheim - In general, I'm not a fan of pot lights. I love the brightness of fluorescents in my current kitchen, though I'd consider an LED or incandescent fixture IFF (and only if!) it was bright enough to really let me see. Under cab lighting works, but having to turn it off/on always annoys me. I love how bright my apartment kitchen is with the big fluoro light, so thats why I put it in for now. I'd be open to suggestions tho, as long as its 'old school victorian', bright as he**, and not modern.
    (yes i know its weird id say nonmodern and then accept a flouro...but its my pref for that room.)

    Cal_quail - its just a guest entry. Tho when i have friends over, its often 4+ at a time, and we do tend to linger in that space for half an hour or more before peeps finally leave.

    Lavendar Lass - ill post it in the home forum...if i can write up the 'prework' piece so people can better understand our parti.

  • scrappy25
    9 years ago

    When I posted one of my earlier layouts I was advised strongly that if I was carrying food past the seated diners, that I would need 60 inches minimum for elbow space since the elbow width would be wider than a normal walk through width. I was angling for 48 inches at that time which is more than your current allotment of 42 inches. I guess you really have to mock it up with a wall and chairs and see how it feels, trays and plates in hand. Best wishes and kudos to you for knowing what you like.

  • scrappy25
    9 years ago

    What about two 2.5 foot sliding pocket doors for your opening to the kitchen? You could close off the whole thing if you'd like then, or keep the opening anywhere between 2.5- 5 feet. You'd have to be creative with the light switches though unless you use one of the wireless switches mounted on the wall just inside the door opening.

  • lookintomyeyes83
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Scrappy - pocket doors might be ideal. I'd could put lightswitches on both the entrance to the dining room (as I'd need to pass through there if I did the U-shaped dining room) and in the kitchen.
    Food for thought...

  • lavender_lass
    9 years ago

    Just a quick sketch. Add a few feet to side and back of house...and move dining room to front, off the entry. This would be more fitting with your home style and give you space for a butler's pantry. Just a few ideas. I'll also post on Building a Home forum :)
    {{gwi:1502027}}From Kitchen plans

  • practigal
    9 years ago

    Yes the dining room absolutely fits at 10'5" but the space behind the chairs is "slide behind" space, meaning that a person faces one direction (the table) and steps sideways along the table as they pass, not "walk behind" space meaning that the person faces the direction they are walking. Walk behind space is much easier for a person with mobility issues and absolutely necessary if you have help you want to work the table.

  • lookintomyeyes83
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    practigal - yes, I was thinking typical 46" table + 38" slide behind + 42" serve from behind = 10'6"

    Could possibly bump it to 11 to ensure full walk-behind on the one side of the dining table.

    This post was edited by Naween on Sat, Oct 25, 14 at 15:47

  • leealison
    9 years ago

    You can get good lighting by using recessed cans. I think a large fluorescent fixture would be a big mistake in your beautiful new home.

  • mrspete
    9 years ago

    To steal another poster's word, I don't think the entry is "comically" large -- but it is large in comparison to the other rooms. Thinking about the whole-house plan on the other page, I hadn't realized the rooms were this small.

    I agree that the dining room is minimal in width. You might consider a built-in banquette on one side instead of chairs. This isn't ideal for such a long room, but those things are massive space savers!

    Another off-beat idea: Instead of one huge table, how about multiple small tables? I'm thinking of perhaps 3-4 small rectangular tables . . . and for every day you could have just one . . . but for parties you could bring out just two, allowing space in between for movement . . . or you could bring out all of them for the set-up you're discussing right now. You'd need table cloths, of course.

    Of course, the real issue isn't whether you can seat people in this space -- you can. The real issue is whether those people are comfortable in the process of being seated. Are the first people to be seated "stuck" because of the chairs around them?

    I also agree with the poster who asked about HOW you'll serve food. For example, I'd say that in my current kitchen (which is not optimal) we always do self-serve buffets: I put out the main dishes on my peninsula, place drinks on another spot in the kitchen, and use the breakfast table for desserts. A better set-up for serving is one of our future kitchen goals. Regardless of how you plan to serve guests, you ought to think through where you'll place things -- and don't forget dirty dishes.

    You mentioned serving "family style" from the middle of the table. Eh, that's easier with a round table than a long, rectangular table.

    Things I'd consider:

    Could you incorporate some type of multi-purpose furniture in the living room /formal parlor . . . furniture that could double as perhaps a place for desserts or drinks during parties? The first thing that comes to my mind is a drop-leaf table, which could sit behind a sofa everyday . . . but could fold out to serve for parties.

    I do like the butler's pantry concept. For example, it could allow you to plate salads . . . and then they're ready to pass down the table.

    Well, I thought I had more ideas than two. I guess I didn't.

    Another vote against the fluorescent light. We had one in a rental house in which I lived years ago, and -- yeah -- it puts out some serious light, but it was very ugly and today would be considered outdated. Your kitchen will be visible from your very-important dining room. Your choices aren't fluorescent lights or pot lights -- other options do exist. Most importantly, consider the function of that light: You're going to be standing in the kitchen facing the wall . . . and if your main light is a big ceiling light behind you, your shadow is falling on your work. In this kitchen, undercabinet lighting is essential. You can also use pendants...

  • raee_gw zone 5b-6a Ohio
    9 years ago

    RE lights: having gone from fluorescent to LED I would assure you that the light is much better with the LEDs. You can use LED bulbs in a "Victorian" looking fixture of your choice, you aren't limited to cans.

    Are you limited in the size of your lot, that you can't make the house footprint a foot or so bigger on the dining/kitchen side?

  • lookintomyeyes83
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    I was discussing our kitchen layout with hubby and he made a good comment I have to agree with, as a reason not to swap the kitchen and dining room - it will make bringing in groceries more difficult (have to meander through living or dining), and will be more awkward if we want to cook appetizers upstairs, then bring them down to the basement entertaining area.

    So I guess I need to think harder about if it needs to be larger...stay tuned!
    So...I think the kitchen needs to stay where it is.

  • lavender_lass
    9 years ago

    One other idea to keep kitchen in the front. This brings in more light (windows on two sides) and gives you a great dish cabinet by the dining room....and a prep area under the window.
    {{gwi:1502035}}From Kitchen plans

  • Jillius
    9 years ago

    Just a general suggestion -- the curved wall around the staircase. I can't picture how that would look, but I am positive it will be interesting and cool. However, it is quite an anomaly compared to the 90 degree angles everywhere else in the house.

    I would suggest putting some thought to where else in the house you could add some more dramatic curves. Dome a ceiling or arched doors/doorways or arched/round windows or a curved wall or whatever. It would only make the house cooler, and it'd make the original curve around the stairs less of an oddity and more like a natural part of the house.

    Also, if you are thinking Victorian, adding a bay window to the long dining room wall would give you that extra bit of walk space you need, plus it would be pretty and really make them room light and bright and architecturally special. Or a curved wall of windows if you want a curve.

  • S D
    9 years ago

    Hi I enjoy reading the ideas expressed here. I think this is a great forum with lots of generous people. One day I will be asking for your advice too. I am chiming in because the layout of my first floor is similar as far as the position of the kitchen, living and dining room. Except that my entry way is opposite the dining room. My area for these rooms is 26x26. The kitchen is 13â W x 19â L, foyer 4â 9â wide at the narrowest.

    The front of my house faces south. I have a large picture window in front which is the location my kitchen table.

    There is limited, but adequate amounts of cabinets (IâÂÂve learn to live with it).

    Because we were planning to attach a garage later, I didnâÂÂt position my sink on the east wall as in your plans. My stove is positioned there instead. When I remodel I will add a window on that wall even if it means giving up precious cabinet space.

    Lavender_Lass' layout that includes a window on the adjacent wall, I think is a great idea for the additional natural light and the view.

    What I like about having the kitchen is front is convenience when bringing in groceries as well as the activity that I can view during the day, people walking their dogs etc. The back of the house is peaceful. I love reading in my living room. Because of the limited area (12 X 24) I opted for not having a wall betw. the living room and dining room. I have French doors on the north wall of my dining room. As pretty as it is, functionally, a slider would have worked better, giving me more clearance when exiting to the patio.

    I was adamant abt. a closed foyer after living in an apartment in which we would shutter when anyone entered during the winter. I wish my foyer was wide enough to have a sidelight on each side of the entry door. Instead, there is an closet that extends to the entry to the stairs leading to the lower level.

    The kitchen location is something IâÂÂve never regretted. My house is a pretty standard footprint in this neighborhood, we swapped the living room with the kitchen. When I visited homes that kept the original plan, I had the feeling of dead space in the living room. Positioning a full size couch would face it toward the hallway or opposite the large picture window. The way my house is situated that would not have felt private. Come to think of it, I should have not had a large picture window but two separate ones, but we didnâÂÂt think through the swap well enough.

  • lookintomyeyes83
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Thank you for the reply Suz45 - it makes me happy to hear about your enjoyment of a similar kitchen. :)

  • CEFreeman
    9 years ago

    I have absolutely nothing of value to offer, but I wanted to vote for pocket doors. I have 15 of them. You gain 9 sf in a room if the door doesn't swing. You can make them as narrow as 24" and as wide as 42". After that, the recommendation is 2 doors, because of the weight sliding them.

    They're actually easier to install than regular doors. I'm telling 'ya, that if I can do it, don't let some "pro" charge you more for them. I didn't use the kits, just the hardware from Johnson Hardware.

    Also, given your décor preferences, start cruising reuse and architectural salvage centers for doors. You can make any door into a pocket door. The wheels come with the Johnson Hardware kits.

    I chose the 5 or 6 horizontal panel doors. The French doors I chose, are exterior doors because they are thicker (1.75" usually) and have a nicer feel. I used them on the MBR and Den. And the best: My French doors were $25 each. The 5 to 6 panel doors were usually oak and $10 (on sale) to $30 (cherry).

    If you like character, this is a great way to go. With your décor, pocket doors are a natural.

    I also think the entry is unnecessarily large, unless you're doing a foyer with doors. Put the space in the rooms where you'll actually be spending time. Not just passing through or standing until someone leaves.

    Oh - and I don't like open concept, either and it's not in keeping with your chosen style. I'm a pig. You have a purpose.

    Either way, sounds like you've got a handle on it. It also, actually, doesn't sound like you're looking for suggestions, but rather someone to confirm what you've already decided to do. Which is what you need to do: What you want.

  • lookintomyeyes83
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    CEFFreeman, thanks for the comments!
    I will definitely consider using pocket doors, though we may just convert them to doorways instead (we keep flipflopping between the two - would you still prefer pocket doors over a doorway?)

    I've got a map of all the architectural salvage places in town...I don't have anyplace to store my findings atm, but will shortly!

    I did post an update to my kitchen (and overall houseplan), which did include reducing the entry doors. if you care to add more comments, they would be welcome :)

    http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/build/msg1000031723167.html?95