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How do you shove 65'' of @#$% into 5' of cabinets?

Posted by marcolo (My Page) on
Mon, Oct 15, 12 at 21:16

On top of a spice drawer or whatnot, here's what I have to find room for in a 5-foot run in my new layout:

With thin foam boards separating each item, the tall left stack is 27", the middle stack is 18" and the third stack is 20" tall.

All three are roughly 15" wide and will fit 24" deep or less.

One of these frypans is 13" in diameter and 23" long with handle.

I may replace some of these aging beasts when the kitchen is done but the volume will probably stay similar. Before I measured I was hoping to do something like this:

However, that would require a full 36" cabinet with no drawers. And that's with undercounting the space required, because you obviously need air between shelves to slide things in. I also have to fit in a spice drawer, Cuisinart storage, and probably a few other major things on the same cabinet run, too.

An alternative is this configuration:

Or drawers:

There's also weird stuff like this:

But my question isn't really about who loves their drawers. What I really need is help with geometry. How can I get all this stuff into the minimum space? I've treated everything the same but there are a few things like cookie sheets I don't mind stacking. Plus frying and saute pans could be treated differently from baking dishes. But I still need to preserve as much room as possible in this 5' cabinet run.

Anybody like problem sets?


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: How do you shove 65'' of @#$% into 5' of cabinets?

We divided the cabinet above the refrigerator into slots and got a lot of those items, (cookie sheets, roasting pans, cutting boards, wok, etc) put away, and we are storing other bake ware in drawers. We were surprised how much storage we gained, in a kitchen we didn't expand.

Good luck!


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RE: How do you shove 65'' of @#$% into 5' of cabinets?

Can it be a tall cabinet or do you need uppers/lowers/counter?


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RE: How do you shove 65'' of @#$% into 5' of cabinets?

Dumb question. What are all those foam boards? Purpose? Do you really need them? I have a bunch of bunt, springform, and tart pans that fit into a much smaller space than your right-hand stack.


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RE: How do you shove 65'' of @#$% into 5' of cabinets?

The foam boards are just to keep all the pans from nesting into each other, because I don't want to store them nested. They are a substitute for shelves or dividers, minus the air space because I can't get my cookware to levitate.

This has to fit in less than 5' undercab, no uppers and no over the fridge storage. Except for maybe the Christmas pudding mold I haven't used since 1986.


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RE: How do you shove 65'' of @#$% into 5' of cabinets?

I was kind of coveting that pudding mold, which I would not use either.

Are you sure you can't stick some over the fridge? You're having a fridge aren't you?


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RE: How do you shove 65'' of @#$% into 5' of cabinets?

Off the top of my head: Use drawers with dividers much like your first "drawers" picture. Then plan to put two frying pans in each bin. One goes in the rear, with the concave part facing left, and handle coming forward. The other goes in the front, with the concave part facing right, and the handle pointing backwards.

Toe-kick drawer could hold the flatter things (cutting boards, cookie sheet).


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RE: How do you shove 65'' of @#$% into 5' of cabinets?

Oh, I just saw your message about no nesting... well, here is how I did it with my baking pans anyway. This is a 36" drawer with one longitudinal divider and one short cross piece propping up the springform pans. None of this is used daily so it doesn't bother me that the pieces don't have dedicated slots. The fact that they are mostly leaning up instead of lying flat (as in the former kitchen) makes it infinitely easier to get to what I need.

Contents: 2 springform pans, 5 pie plates, 3 Pyrex dishes (one rectangular, two square), 2 loaf pans, 2 tube pans (straight sides), 1 bundt pan (fluted), 3 cake pans, one 12-count and two 6-count muffin tins, one mini muffin tin, 3 big rectangular metal pans (one with a drip rack and lid), 1 square brownie pan, and 1 ceramic bird that is supposed to be stuck in a pie to let steam out, which somebody gave me but I have never used.

I do use all this stuff (except the bird), just not every day or even every week.

My skillets and pots are in the lazy susan corner cab next to the range. My cookie sheets, pizza pan, splatter screen etc are in the warming drawer of my range (hey, the old range just had a normal drawer so that was where they lived before). I need to move all those up to the over-fridge cabinet if I can shift DH's giant box of light bulbs (seriously, it's huge) somewhere else.

If you used some sort of flexible divider like cloth or paper towels in between, would you be willing to nest? I presume you want to avoid scratches.


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RE: How do you shove 65'' of @#$% into 5' of cabinets?

Cab over the fridge is tiny. There's only 13" between the 80" tall fridge and 93" ceiling. Cabinets are inset, so they're not going to leave tons of usable room up there.

The mold in the picture is a Bundt cake pan. Makes spectacular cakes with only a sprinkling of confectioners'. The plum pudding mold, not pictured, is built for steaming and has more buckles and latches than a chastity belt. Very British.

So I did some inaccurate math.

If I copy the second picture I get a total of 72" of linear space, but I have to subtract an unknown amount for dividers and frame.

If I combine the first and second pictures, I get a fraction more--75". This makes the left 21" vertical storage as in picture 2 above. Then the last 15" can be horizontal, as in picture 2. Some of that extra will be eaten up by more interior framing so it's a wash at best. However, I think fry pans and saute pans are easier to handle laying flat, no?

Kills me to use so much space so inflexibly.

And my Cuisinart! And my splatter guards! And my colanders!


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RE: How do you shove 65'' of @#$% into 5' of cabinets?

FYI:there is a knape and vogt slide out pot grid for the top portion of a tall pantry cabinet. Grid system with hooks for hanging the handled pieces-similar to the pot racks that hang from ceilings but it is mounted to the top of tall pantry cabinet-top section only-so the remainder of the pantry cabinet can be used for other things. Can't recall if you have such a cabinet-perhaps it can be fitted into a lower-you just need something to attach the slides to at the top,it appears. I was looking at it as I have a pantry I'll be retrofitting,it looks very compact and sturdy and I like the hook format-colanders and other stuff too...I did remove a pot rack from the kitchen ceiling as the dangling of pots out in the open isn't my favorite-but behind a cabinet is a different matter.


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RE: How do you shove 65'' of @#$% into 5' of cabinets?

Without doing all the math-in general
Frameless cabsibottom 12" rev-a-shelf tray dividers space 2-4" variable', then full depth shelf, 4.5" space then rollout, then drawer. This is THE densest base cabinet storage possible and what you have there suits it.

Large fry can fit in top drawer of frameless drawer-note cake pans and such work in 13" deep wall cabs.

Only caveat- when I do this I always make sure it is a singgle door or RO is a pain.

Once you do the math might mix in drawer base for part of the run- 2 drawer with rollout in one or 3 drawer- best if you can alter face or specify rails.


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RE: How do you shove 65'' of @#$% into 5' of cabinets?

I was just gonna say toekicks. 60" of toekick should hold a few of those things. Add the over fridge cab divider thingee like felixnot has and some vertical dividers on the bottom shelf of a cab or cabs(or big divided drawer/s) and then open shelf above for cuisinart, etc. Shouldn't you have room for a 4" drawer on top then for spices, etc?


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RE: How do you shove 65'' of @#$% into 5' of cabinets?

I like the second choice...nic storage. I just saved that to my file.

Can you hang a few things up or otherwise display them? That Christmas pudding mold is cool and would look great in my kitchen, if you decide you don't want/have room for it :)


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RE: How do you shove 65'' of @#$% into 5' of cabinets?

What I hate is stacked horizontal nesting. Drives me insane. Thinks scratch, I have to take out six things to get one.

I don't so much mind the front of Northcarolina's drawer, with pans nested vertically like files in a drawer.

IRL I will nest some cake pans because I don't bake every day. But that stands in for the extra 6" inches of interior space that always seems to disappear just because.


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RE: How do you shove 65'' of @#$% into 5' of cabinets?

In my last kitchen I had a pot rack that hung from the ceiling. I know many people despise these, but I sooo miss it. I loved just reaching up and grabbing what I needed and it left so much space for the more awkward pots and pans in the cabinets. If you don't hate them do you have a spot for that? Even on a wall?


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RE: How do you shove 65'' of @#$% into 5' of cabinets?

I had the same frustrating problem and no amount of calculation could make it work for me. I bought some wire shelving from Costco, placed it in my garage and that is where I now store kitchen items that I do not use on a regular basis. Not my ideal plan, but works.

Good luck!


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RE: How do you shove 65'' of @#$% into 5' of cabinets?

No Kobuyashi Maru maneuvers, unfortunately. This run is where all this detritus needs to find a home.

Can anybody else join northcarolina in showing me a lot of junk in a drawer or lower cabinet? Maybe it will give me a better sense of how much I really need. Do two of those drawers equal the storage of my pic #2 above? That still wouldn't allow a top drawer, would it?

BTW use that pie bird. They're cute.

Oh, and yes, anything remotely attractive can go into my glass uppers. That doesn't encompass much bakeware, unfortunately.

I'm not even asking where to put my 36 x 24" pasta board. Yet.


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RE: How do you shove 65'' of @#$% into 5' of cabinets?

I would try using a 2 drawer stack that is maybe 36 inches? You would have to try this out to see how long. Anyway, one drawer with the front to back narrow slot dividers and set the frying pans and other pans in that drawer, you can alternate the fry pans like Angie_DIY suggested. The other drawer would hold everything else in the picture and set up would be like Northcarolina's drawer, you can put all the spingforms and such across one row and everything else standing accross the front.

That's my best guess. Thanks for posting all those great pics! And for proving to DH I'm not the only one likely to be drawing interior drawer space squares to try out, or stacking items to figure out how to store them :-)


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RE: How do you shove 65'' of @#$% into 5' of cabinets?

I don't like the cabinets with horizontal shelves one bit. Not too crazy about the wire dividers either. I like the drawer solution with dividers but to optimize space, I would suggest thinner dividers that you can configure and install using the Lee Valley divider installers. For similarly shaped items like cookie sheets, I don't mind nesting but prefer to use one of those quilted pads in between or thin cork mats from Ikea or just buy in sheets and cut. This is totally one of those TKO discussions I would dare not bring up in front of non-TKO friends.

Here is a link that might be useful: Lee valley dividers.


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RE: How do you shove 65'' of @#$% into 5' of cabinets?

Well, you could add an upper if you want to spread things out and keep the skillets/pans separate from the baking sheets/supplies:

Ala this:

Photobucket

PS - Marcolo please check out my new thread called "Spinning". I did my homework and could really use your feedback.


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RE: How do you shove 65'' of @#$% into 5' of cabinets?

jakuvall, I'm totally not following. Can you point me to a pic? These are framed inset, btw. If it matters they are also continuous face frame, all one piece, not boxes.

williamsem, how tall would the drawers have to be for a two-drawer stack?

And if I devote all this drawerage to the clanking bakeware and fry pans, whither my Cuisinart? It's 14" tall if I store it all assembled, which would be lovely, but I'm not dedicating a whole cabinet to it. My plan was a ROTS, but then I've got no more drawers in that area. Maybe I don't need them?


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RE: How do you shove 65'' of @#$% into 5' of cabinets?

I don't suppose you could have deeper cabinets could you?


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RE: How do you shove 65'' of @#$% into 5' of cabinets?

It's too bad you don't like pot racks.


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RE: How do you shove 65'' of @#$% into 5' of cabinets?

Can anybody else join northcarolina in showing me a lot of junk in a drawer or lower cabinet? Maybe it will give me a better sense of how much I really need.

Why not get a cardboard box the size of a drawer, and play with filling it with your actual stuff? May be very instructive.


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RE: How do you shove 65'' of @#$% into 5' of cabinets?

Marcolo I will tell you that although my drawer that you have pictured above is a very large drawer, some of my largest fry pans simply will not fit. There are two issues- one pan is too tall and one pan, with handle, is too long to go in the drawer. So, be sure you plan accordingly if you do a drawer like that. I barely have any pans and I can't make all of mine work, so I don't think I would do the drawers like mine for your vast collection of stuff unless you can devote a lot of width and depth. Also, I wouldn't put cookie sheets in there either, they'd fall back and forth.

Sorry, no ideas on what to do, just sharing what doesn't work that well for me.


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RE: How do you shove 65'' of @#$% into 5' of cabinets?

I'm not trying to be an a$$, but with so much to store and limited space within your kitchen to do so, somethings got to give. You don't like nesting. You may be forced to go there with your storage constraints. I don't prfefer nesting, although that's the only way to get a cake, pie, bread, tart, springform, etc pan collection like mine to fit in my kitchen along with the zillions of gadgets, mutiple sets of china/dinnerware, and dozens of serving pieces. The trick is to not nest six deep. I don't use these pans everyday so it's not that much annoyance to get what I need from the drawer. Pots and pots, on the other hand are used daily so stacking them more than two high is a major pita.

My large fp (I have a large and a small) is a honkin commercial beast standing 15.5" tall. I have to store it with the top off next to the base.

Tonight is my last night of after-surgery Vicodin. Promise I'll be nicer tomorrow. ;)


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RE: How do you shove 65'' of @#$% into 5' of cabinets?

Um, not sure! I'm much better at ideas then reality sometimes. I would guess you would need 12 inches or so interior space in each. How big are those fry pans? I know for the cabinet line I plan on using a 3 drawer stack gets me one ~3.5 inch interior height drawer and 2 x ~9 inch interior height drawers. So a 2 drawer stack should be larger than 9 inches for sure. Can you ask your cabinet rep how big their two drawer stack drawers are? I would think they would be deep enough. Might need to play with some cardboard "drawers" to see if it would work with your cabinet line specs.


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RE: How do you shove 65'' of @#$% into 5' of cabinets?

Here is pic
Photobucket
This is frameless.
Since you have inset, hope you have flexibility with the brand your using.
This would only solve a part of your problem. Items in RO are stacked, less used stuff, put your roasing pan on shelf, cookie sheets are stacked, saute is not

pot drawer
Second pic- LOW 5 1/4" high dividers- fry pans tilted to clear drawer (NO nesting except pasta set)

For inset side-
mount glides in top drawers to gain height and use them for large fry pans >11" or sauteuse., I have done 3 drawer base with no stile between 2nd and 3rd drawers, prefer how it looks next to cabs with doors and gains more drawer height.
Can you alter the rail height-even saving 1/4" can help in top and bottom rail but adds cost and have to do all cabs if you do that.
Combine cabinets using common stiles to save space- whatever you end up with should be configured as one big cabinet.


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RE: How do you shove 65'' of @#$% into 5' of cabinets?

Did not do the math here- 3 drawer width is sort of a minimum I use, then just guessed the rest. Just demonstrates inset options.
Photobucket

Now I have to get back to work :)


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RE: How do you shove 65'' of @#$% into 5' of cabinets?

Does this help? The interior of this drawer is 30"W x 14 1/4" H x 20 1/8"D. I bought a frying pan insert from rev-a-shelf. It took a long time playing with my largest frying pan to get the exact dimensions I would need to accommodate it in this configuration.

Photobucket

Photobucket
Photobucket
Another drawer with NO insert:
Photobucket


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RE: How do you shove 65'' of @#$% into 5' of cabinets?

Ack. It just occurred to me that when I redo my kitchen, I'm going to have find drawers for all the cast iron stuff I hung on my cabinets to be cheesy! It's actually quite convenient. I'm thinking pullout pegboard for skillets.

Speaking of skillets, where are your saucepans and stuff going? Or, lids? Can the skillets live there with the other stovetop items?

But like Breezy says, something needs to change if your new kitchen won't hold all your crap. Maybe inset cabinetry isn't a good choice. Maybe the layout isn't as complete as you'd thought. You don't want to be tight on space while it's still on paper!


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RE: How do you shove 65'' of @#$% into 5' of cabinets?

I hate crowded drawers and cabinets, especially for things I use all the time.

Sort your stuff into what is used all the time and what is used infrequently.

The pots and pans we use all the time are very accessible, close to the stove and not at all crowded. The rest are a bit more crowded and less conveniently stored.

I have the baking pans and sheets and racks I use all the time near my baking center. The rest of it, which is used infrequently is a bit more crowded together and in a less convenient spot.

I have my spices I use all the time in my prep space. I have the other spices alphabetically in my pantry.


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RE: How do you shove 65'' of @#$% into 5' of cabinets?

garage sale?


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RE: How do you shove 65'' of @#$% into 5' of cabinets?

It's interesting to hear that drawers aren't the be-all and end-all, though I'm still considering them.

No garage sale for these babies, unless they're replaced with new. I don't really think I have an unusual number of pans at all--I've just stacked them so they can be seen all at once. Some can be nested IRL but not the frypans and not the ceramics. Plus an Aga Legacy takes a LOT of smaller roasting pans in its tall oven, so those need to be at the ready.

I've got to play with some of the ideas here. jakuvall gives some cool ways to avoid the inset issue with the fake drawers. I'll look at that.


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RE: How do you shove 65'' of @#$% into 5' of cabinets?

"The foam boards are just to keep all the pans from nesting into each other, because I don't want to store them nested."

Then you get to waste space you apparently are now complaining you do not have.


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RE: How do you shove 65'' of @#$% into 5' of cabinets?

On the nesting topic, are they not to be nested because it makes them harder to get at or because they might scratch each other? If it's the latter, something flexible (felt, cork sheets, dish towels, etc.) will allow for safe nesting. If it's the former, that's the penalty you take for doing a faux-20s kitchen and it's a reasonable sacrifice for a nice kitchen when you only victimize infrequently used items.


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RE: How do you shove 65'' of @#$% into 5' of cabinets?

Marcolo, I have no real advice for how to get that in a 5' space but, what you have is exactly the problem that faced us when doing the layout for our kitchen. I have lots of bakeware (none that I am willing to part with) and if I did traditional cabinets and a normal layout, not enough space for them and all my smaller appliances like blender, ice cream maker, food processor, bread maker, hand mixer, pressure canner, etc...

What helped me was laying it all out in a big room (HUGE PITA but very helpful), I separated EVERYTHING into batches or sections of how I would want it in the kitchen and measured the smallest dimensions I would comfortably be able to stack or nest it to, then padded the numbers slightly assuming I was not done buying new kitchen gadgets or upgrading something or other. Most was pretty easy, cookie sheets together, large appliances by themselves, casserole dishes together, and so on. The problem in the end was the same as you, at some point the math just doesn't work out.

My solution will probably not work for you, but at some point you need to start either making concessions, or thinking much further outside of the box than you are. We decided to not do cabinets with counter on one side of our kitchen and instead do an island that some (most) would not do (small kitchen). We are doing a built in the entire length of the wall, floor to ceiling. It was either this or store my kitchen stuff in the garage, and well, I don't have a garage ;-(


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RE: How do you shove 65'' of @#$% into 5' of cabinets?

OK, perspective: those squares on the floor are 12 x 12. Nest a few of the items, store the bundt pan elsewhere and pretty soon it all fits into a 36" cabinet as is. I'm just looking for the most efficient way to do it, so I don't have to take up a full 36" with something inflexible.

My issue with nesting is both scratching and access--both. I already use towels between nonstick frypans but they always seem to wander off. And those pans in particular are a bear to pull out if they're nested because they're heavy and give you only one place to hold them all up, meaning the handle. But I don't mind nesting cookie sheets or jelly roll pans or whatnot.

Pots and saucepans will go into a corner susan, which I am happy with. Hopefully some small appliances will fit there as well, though I still don't know what to do with the Cuisinart. I need room for that, and colanders and whatnot, which is why I hope to squeeze the baking pans and frypans down a little in space.


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RE: How do you shove 65'' of @#$% into 5' of cabinets?

I haven't read all the responses yet, but has anybody suggested moving to the suburbs? Because that's where the big kitchens are.

But seriously, compromise is the way to happiness. Nest what you can handle being nested. Ditch the oysterboard and use cut out circles of shelf liner to cushion between pots and pans (the towels wandered off because they were inadvertently used as . . . towels). Store the veryveryveryseldomused item elsewhere -- maybe not even in the kitchen.

You can do this!


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RE: How do you shove 65'' of @#$% into 5' of cabinets?

/shrug

Try the organizing forum. They'll tell you to throw away half of it but after they get that out of their systems yo might get some nuggets.

So the overall layout is set in stone? I'm thinkin' it needs more work. It doesn't do what it needs to do.


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RE: How do you shove 65'' of @#$% into 5' of cabinets?

I had originally planned to store sauce pots and sauce pans in a corner susan as well. I was surprised when the cabinets were installed recently and the opening size of the corner susan made it very inconvenient to put in and take out large items like pots. I had never had inset cabinets before, so I think in my head I was expecting the same size opening I had with my frameless cabs in the last house. Something to consider if you haven't had an inset corner susan before. I ended up having to tilt stuff on its side to be careful not to bang up the frame, which became so annoying that I reorganized to avoid having big things in the susan.


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RE: How do you shove 65'' of @#$% into 5' of cabinets?

I have a pie-cut lazy susan now, the kind with the door attached that you just push in. Those are always inset by default. I love storing pots there. What size is your susan?


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RE: How do you shove 65'' of @#$% into 5' of cabinets?

i guess not


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RE: How do you shove 65'' of @#$% into 5' of cabinets?

I don't know your layout, but do you have a wall where you can do a Julia Child-esque peg board?


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RE: How do you shove 65'' of @#$% into 5' of cabinets?

Actually, annsch, it shows that frying pans can go lengthwise, but not width wise, so yes it does help.

I have little to no open wall space in the kitchen, shannonplus2.

I do think some combo of drawers and tray storage can fix me up.


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RE: How do you shove 65'' of @#$% into 5' of cabinets?

maybe use those toekick drawers?


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RE: How do you shove 65'' of @#$% into 5' of cabinets?

I have a 36" drawer stack for pots/pans and another 20" drawer for baking tins.


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RE: How do you shove 65'' of @#$% into 5' of cabinets?

And the drawer with baking tins, etc. There are currently 17 items in the drawer and at least 2-3 more in the DW. Best thing in my kitchen so far. Well, maybe that is an exaggeration.


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RE: How do you shove 65'' of @#$% into 5' of cabinets?

Don't know if this is helpful as it seems you don't like pot racks. HOWEVER. To help with the storage issue in our 11x14 kitchen, DH is going to build a between the studs area approx 20" wide x 7' tall next to the stove with a kind of 'ladder' setup to hang some of my pots and pans. I just couldn't find enough cab space for them, either. I don't mind having them out though. Well, it's probably not between the studs, it'll be bigger than the studs are wide but you get the gist.


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RE: How do you shove 65'' of @#$% into 5' of cabinets?

Put the Bundt pan in the cabinet over the fridge. They are terrible space hogs; it sounds like the fridge cab will be big enough, and seriously, how often do you make bundt cakes?

Seriously consider whether replacing some of your cookware (say buying skillets with shorter handles) will solve some of your problems.


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RE: How do you shove 65'' of @#$% into 5' of cabinets?

motherof3sons, how wide is that drawer? Seems to hold an awful lot but it looks accessible.


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RE: How do you shove 65'' of @#$% into 5' of cabinets?

I want to point out (in case it isn't obvious in the photos) that motherof3sons' drawer is deeper than mine. Mine is the standard Ikea "deep drawer" and my biggest pans won't fit in it if they are straight vertical. They have to be tilted over a bit, which means the number I can fit is limited compared to hers. If you're getting custom cabs then no problem. :)

My lazy susan cabinet is 36", if that helps, with solid shelves fitted with no-pole susans instead of the Ikea standard ones. The door is the kind with hinges. I'm able to get large things in and out without trouble (meaning the big slow cooker, the 7-qt dutch oven, and the 12-qt stock pot) but yes, it would be easier to lift them straight up from a drawer if I had one big enough. I keep the appliances that are short enough in another 36" deep drawer: the food processor, electric grill, toaster when I get tired of looking at its white plastic awesomeness, hand mixer, etc.

My wrists are getting tired of using the hand mixer for stiff cookie dough, so I probably need a stand mixer. I have NO idea where it's going to go. I am not looking at the pretty ones that look impressive sitting on the countertop (leaning toward a Bosch -- more white plastic).


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RE: How do you shove 65'' of @#$% into 5' of cabinets?

Marcolo, my vertical storage looks like Jakuvall's, with thin bent metal dividers and is very efficient.

What I was going to suggest, though, is redefining perfect storage. Instead of all this stuff together, how about refusing to have anything in your central work area that you don't use "all the time" (with special exceptions of course)? This philosophy allows me to put my 14" fry pan, wok, various baking items on the far side of the kitchen "where they belong," i.e., not crowding my busy work area, serene in the knowledge that all is right in the kitchen. :)


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RE: How do you shove 65'' of @#$% into 5' of cabinets?

Marcolo - The "box" is 13.5" wide and 21" deep. I thought it was much wider, but the tape measure does not lie.


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RE: How do you shove 65'' of @#$% into 5' of cabinets?

For colanders--have you seen the kind that squish pretty much flat? We've had one for a year, holds its shape for pouring large quantities of pasta & water into it, works fine in the dishwasher, yet squashes flat for storage.


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RE: How do you shove 65'' of @#$% into 5' of cabinets?

Mine is a 36 inch susan...maybe if I had lived with it for a while I would've gotten used to it, but I tend to fly around the kitchen and don't like having to be careful. I also got what they call a super susan, which has solid shelves and a lipped, wooden tray that rotates on top of each shelf. The extra wood for the shelf/tray/lip eats up a few precious inches. I can't even fit a cereal box in mine standing right-side-up. She is impressively sturdy but that's her best feature.


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RE: How do you shove 65'' of @#$% into 5' of cabinets?

I remember going through this several months ago. Here's what I did, maybe it will help you or others. The difference for me, though, was that some of my cabinet sizes were set due to other objects (stove, doors, etc.), whereas you can divide up your 5 feet run in different ways.

First, think of how you'd store these items in an ideal world, regardless of space. Door with horizontal shelves or vertical dividers or both, or drawers (some with and/or without dividers)? What "layout" is preferred for certain items?

Second, group items that you'd like to store in a particular "layout" together. How many "layout areas" do you need? And how much space do you need within that area? Something that might help is to literally use a section of counter, your current cabinet space, or get some different sized cardboard boxes, and pretend you have a door or drawer box. Measure it out, and determine how much space do you need -- vertically and horizontally -- for a particular layout area.

Third, find out some approximate dimensions for your cabinet type. How deep are the boxes? How much is lost due to a drawer, a divider? For example, my cabinetmaker wanted the vertical dividers to be thicker than the removeable pot dividers that I'm placing in a drawer box.

In my case, I wanted -->

1) Tall vertical dividers in a door box (a space like photo #3, but without the horizontal divider) to store: large baking sheets/trays, pizza peel, cutting boards less used, roasting pan.

2) Shallow drawers to store: bunt, tart and cake pans, pie plates. I could lay these items out four square and did not need a deep drawer box for these. Also, I was OK with some nesting here, just not too much.

3) Short vertical dividers in a tall drawer box (from the outside, it looks like two drawers -- but inside, it's similar to photo #5) to store: fry and cast iron pans, pan lids. I did not want any nesting here (other than some pan lids). In this case, remember, the drawer box can be made shorter if you allow the pans' handles to tilt diagonally vs. straight-up vertically as in the photo. When looking down on the drawer box, you also can have some dividers run horizontally, some vertically to accommodate larger and smaller fry pans/lids. I made my divider one piece so I can pull it out and re-design/replace it if necessary without affecting the drawer.

4) I thought of doing a combo door box that contained both vertical and horizontal dividers. But I nixed this because I thought items I would store in the horizontal dividers would get lost in the depth.

I put together a detailed Excel spreadsheet that shows what I have in each of my drawer/door boxes, and I'd be happy to share this (with my cabinet plans) with anyone interested if you're not bored enough already :-)

Good luck. And don't forget to re-check all of your measurements (using the interior useable space) once you have your plans and know what you're storing where.


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RE: How do you shove 65'' of @#$% into 5' of cabinets?

Just a thought on appliances-- the cabinet above our vent has the vent pipe going through the middle, leaving a tall narrow space on either side, exactly the height of a coffeemaker, blender, or Cuisinart (we rotate these through).


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RE: How do you shove 65'' of @#$% into 5' of cabinets?

Wow! Lot to put into a small space. A few items will be hard to fit - I just couldn't fit my pizza spatula into any lower cabinet - but it found a home above my stove.
I went mostly horizontal - I also don't like having to lift pans to get to other pans - although, I have a few larger ones that wouldn't go horizontal. I did use my corner cab for a couple really large pans - either width or height.

Most of my pots are in this drawer - 36 inches wide. There is a second drawer below with other pans and misc items including my blender, mini chop, hard boiled egg cooker, etc. My food processor is in a slightly taller drawer across the way.
Photobucket

Baking dishes are in 30 inch cabinets - the insulated pans are too tall to go sideways - but with my new oven, I can probably replace them with standard pans
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Cutting boards line up in my itty bitty cabinet - I was going to swap out for 2 drawers but then figured out how much more this holds and is easy to grab one. The lower two shelves hold my sink basket (just couldn't let it live in the sink) and my slicer that I hardly ever think to use.
Photobucket

My large pots live in the corner with the super susan - my most used items are front and to the left - I only have to open the first part of the door to grab - these larger items require me to open the entire door and spin.
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I think vertical will give you more storage and easier to snag items- I like your little grid cabinet. In any case, you will need to stack a few items together to get everything into your space!

Good luck!!!


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RE: How do you shove 65'' of @#$% into 5' of cabinets?

What do we think of this?
From the corner on the left to the range on the right:

Each square is 3". The fuzzy dotted lines on the right are my attempt to "hide" the fact that the vertical/horizontal storage cabinet doesn't have drawers.

I'd like these shelves and dividers to be as adjustable as possible.


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RE: How do you shove 65'' of @#$% into 5' of cabinets?

M, I keep wanting to contribute, but all that goes through my head is this:


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RE: How do you shove 65'' of @#$% into 5' of cabinets?

For the flexibility part of the program... could you have the horizontal shelf area drilled on the sides so you could use those little metal shelf clips? Then you could vary the heights of the spaces as your needs change. Our 50 years old upper cabs have that and it's nice to be able to move the shelves, rather than having fixed shelves. (Or are all uppers made like that?)


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RE: How do you shove 65'' of @#$% into 5' of cabinets?

Agreed, deedles. I'd like everything adjustable if possible.

circus, good to know I can get good at math in about a thousand years.


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RE: How do you shove 65'' of @#$% into 5' of cabinets?

For your susan, don't forget Bellsmom's awesome retrofit of HUGE tracts of land, I mean, tracts of lazy susan storage space without the center spindle. If you were to use adjustable shelving as deedles suggests with the lazy susans attached, you could vary the height of the susan-shelves as you need. However, then you'd have to be clever with also having the attached fronts be adjustable too, which I can't come up with off the top of my head.

Also, I store my nonstick pans on a vinyl-coated plate stack thing:
Photobucket
I can put away the 10" and 12" pans without pulling out the ROS since the handles are long enough.

Since I had an extra plate stack thing, I used to vertically store the three sets of plates for my Cuisinart Griddler:
Photobucket

hth


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RE: How do you shove 65'' of @#$% into 5' of cabinets?

Skipped over some of the replies, so maybe this was mentioned, but don't write off that space above the fridge. It may not be tall, but it is probably large enough to put many of the baking pans in, especially on their side. Most will be less than 12 inches on one side or in diameter. You can get a lot of those baking pans into that space and focus on using the base for your pans, skillets and larger items. That might free up the narrower cabinet for the processor and some other goodies. Use all the space. Take the odd spots and figure out what will fit.


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RE: How do you shove 65'' of @#$% into 5' of cabinets?

Are you still having an island? Is there any space to have a shelf on one end for the cuisinart? I thought at one point there was discussion of cook book shelves in the island.

How big is that cuisinart, anyway? We talking food processor or something else?


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RE: How do you shove 65'' of @#$% into 5' of cabinets?

HUGE tracts of land

((cough cough, 1975, cough cough))

How do you adjust a super susan? You crawl into the cabinet and raise it up on your back like an Ayn Rand character?

I'm sure something will go above the fridge. But if I have only 13" max to play with for crown and cabinet frame it won't be much. Maybe it's a good place for my binders full of women.

The Cuisinart is 14" tall if you store it with the bowl on, which I have never done but would like to do. When it's kept in pieces, digging up all the plastic parts and blades inevitably turns into a Lucy skit with slasher overtones.


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RE: How do you shove 65'' of @#$% into 5' of cabinets?

"How do you adjust a super susan?"

Bellsmom used the adjustable shelves that came with her cabinet to put the round susan on, with a bearing ring of course, and then adjusted the shelves with the track (or however her cabs adjust) to suit her contents. A link to her thread with lots of cool pics is below and she explains it far better than I. It seems like it would make alot more of the blind corner cab useful, which is one way to fit that extra 5" of stuff.

Still trying to think of how the corner-shaped door/drawer fronts can be attached like you want them and yet be adjustable...

Or have you thought any more about the Korner King like mrsjoe installed? Though it looks like it has the same problem of a separate door to open, which you don't like.
Here's the thread link:
http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/kitchbath/msg0714535912541.html

Here is a link that might be useful: Bellsmom's susan retrofit thread


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RE: How do you shove 65'' of @#$% into 5' of cabinets?

And here I didn't believe this migraine could get any worse . . .


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RE: How do you shove 65'' of @#$% into 5' of cabinets?

Sorry no solution here, but find the discussion useful because I didn't know there were so many options. And as i add it to things to think about for my remodel, maybe I was better off NOT knowing! I'm a nester out of necessity, but hope their is a better solution for me too.

Think I'm most curious about now is a2Gemini why the heck so many cutting boards? Do I see 10 of them??


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RE: How do you shove 65'' of @#$% into 5' of cabinets?

Island.
Busted!
Ok-little ones for fast jobs
Raw Meat board
Veggie board
2 bread boards- had one and found a beautiful one on sale that I couldn't resist.
Then our beautiful wedding gift cutting board-so pretty it is hard to use.
A couple of test versions to see if I like them.
Roasting board
And my special surprise - a matching cheese board present from Cambria.

I guess I better not show the over fridge picture - snagged the built in cutting board from old kitchen and DH giant board...

Didn't realize I was getting carried away til you pointed it out.

Sorry to high jack a bit of fun!


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RE: How do you shove 65'' of @#$% into 5' of cabinets?

Funny Gemini. Was hoping you didn't take offense. Just had to know what I was missing in the world of cutting boards. Thanks for being a sport....and lets see that over fridge selection?
Cambria? As in CA? I have a cheese board from there too!


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RE: How do you shove 65'' of @#$% into 5' of cabinets?

Cr*p. Now I remembered I need to find a place for two pasta-rolling boards. One is 24 x 36, the one I inherited from my mom is smaller. And what about the 3' long rolling pin? I used to store it the old fashioned way, hanging from a cup hook in the end. No place to do that in the new space. Perhaps a hole in the floor? LOL.


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RE: How do you shove 65'' of @#$% into 5' of cabinets?

Marcolo - back on topic - sorry
My rolling pins are not that long - I might have to ogle for your rolling pin and pasta boards. -
24x36 - now that is a tough one based on only 13inches above the fridge.
How about a hall closet?
So, I guess the highjack helped you remember other items - I kept finding more things that I missed also - but since I can take out and put in dividers -it all works - except for that giant rolling pin.

When we were married - one of our friends gave us a 3 foot Bam Bam bat (plastic), so I could use it to get DH attention - fortunately, I haven't needed it - but we still have it standing in a Bedroom corner.

Hang in there - it will all come together.

On your one plan - is the total opening for the corner 12 inches or is that just one side - I think 12 inches is a bit small.


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RE: How do you shove 65'' of @#$% into 5' of cabinets?

A THREE FOOT rolling pin?

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RE: How do you shove 65'' of @#$% into 5' of cabinets?

The rolling pin is for pasta. It's really useful at that length. Normally it takes no space at all because it's standing up. It's in the basement now but I hate keeping kitchen things down there, and the garage is freestanding.

OMG! My apron! I'm almost hoping my fridge will require a filler at this point. A towering roll-out would solve lots of problems even though it would mess up the symmetry.


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RE: How do you shove 65'' of @#$% into 5' of cabinets?

LOL
We added a giant pull out next to the fridge!
But no more cutting boards lurking.
Would you believe sports food and some tall bottles (use your imagination in what lives in tall bottles).
Aprons in a 14 inch narrow drawer with pit holders and lee valley inserts dividing the drawer and space for the apple corer, egg slicer etc.

Too bad you are not in the area or I could give you a tour de kitchen :-)

You will find space for all

Impressed that you make your own pasta- haven't tackled that yet.
Wow!


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RE: How do you shove 65'' of @#$% into 5' of cabinets?

The best solutions depend one's unique circumstances, but, for me, by far the most efficient storage I hit on are the two three foot pot rack bookshelves mounted side by side high as a single unit on a plain wall with a passage way too narrow to allow cabinets. On the other side of the wall is a pantry, so I couldn't recess into it. And I couldn't stand 8 feet of wall that served no purpose.

Don't think it will work for you, but here is where my iron skillets (the biggest are a 12'' diameter round one and the 16'' long fish fryer), big (as huge) mauviel copper skillets, stew pans, and sauce pans live. The big copper skillet slightly to the right of center is 22'' long counting handle and 11'' wide. Plus the unit houses six shelf feet of cookbooks.

Photobucket

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All those pots and pans would have taken up way more than a 36'' drawer cabinet. And every one of them is immediately accessible without opening a door or pulling out a drawer or stacking and unstacking.

I am not sure where your design has taken you lately, but I can't help wondering if there is not some AHA! solution that, like these racks, will invent storage space for you.

And an aside--are you SURE your cabinets are being built with drawers that are full depth? I was shocked to learn that most (including mine, darn it) drawers are inches shorter than their boxes. Usually 20'' deep in 24'' deep boxes. Shelves, on the other hand, do extend the full depth.


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RE: How do you shove 65'' of @#$% into 5' of cabinets?

I use paper plates between the few items I nest.

Glass cabs? Think again. You got caught up. Keep all your stuff and ditch the glass or ditch some stuff.

I have 3 toekick drawers. Each of the toekicks is part of the large 3rd drawer. Ayr Custom Cab co. did mine, just like loves2cook4six-there is a clipping in this thread of her upper with pans lined up hanging-and the Ayr Cab. watermark.

I am sorry no pics.

I have 10 x 18 kitchen. No cd fridge for me as I need the space and have my fridge recessed. Gained 3 inches. My full fridge is 34 1/4 deep and has 25 c. f. French doors. Cabs built around unit and it looks built in. I guess it is but I didn't have to buy a cd or built in fridge.

northcarolina and gemini have nailed the solution.

I am all about function and storage and modern.


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RE: How do you shove 65'' of @#$% into 5' of cabinets?

Marcolo, I can't remember why you're anti-potrack. Too OCD? We don't have one set up yet in the new kitchen and already it's a pain in the neck to have to fetch pots from drawers or shelves rather than just swing them down to the stove. So I'm speaking from Pure Function here -- do consider a pot rack.


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RE: How do you shove 65'' of @#$% into 5' of cabinets?

Another vote in favor of potracks here:

I guess you can tell how I deal with storage issues.


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RE: How do you shove 65'' of @#$% into 5' of cabinets?

Although I have nothing of use to add to the discussion, I can't believe I'm the only one that caught this in Marcolo's post at 15:14 :

"I'm sure something will go above the fridge. But if I have only 13" max to play with for crown and cabinet frame it won't be much. Maybe it's a good place for my binders full of women."

;-) Yes, a good belly laugh and tea everywhere.


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Maximizing space over fridge--just an idea

This might work:

IF you can make the cab over the fridge frameless (by cheating as someone showed previously and making the rails and side trim part of the doors?), slots like those used for vertical dividers in pot drawers could be cut into the sides and back at 1'' intervals.

Then 1/2'' adjustable shelves (save an inch or more by not using 3/4'' shelving which you won't need for light objects stored flat on shelves that are supported on 3 sides) can be used. Place the shelves close together and slide in the big cutting board, cookie sheets, and anything else flat and large. Because this cabinet will probably be 24'' deep, most of the shelves will take two or three items side by side. Stack the cutting boards and cookie sheets two high when possible. You will want maybe 1 1/2'' to 2'' between shelves.

I think you could have at least four 1/2'' shelves and the bottom for a total of 5 narrow storage spaces in a 13'' high cab.

If you can't make this a frameless box, you can still use four or five shelves and a conventional system of shelf supports, but you probably won't be able to remove the shelves from the cabinet or add new ones.

Advantages of this are obvious.
Disadvantage is that an item stuffed to the back will be a PIA to retrieve in that narrow spacing. I think I would give up 1/2'' of vertical storage and line the shelves with Cushy Cupboard shelf liner, cut into two pieces on each shelf. With this particular shelf liner, if something gets pushed back, you can easily pull the liner forward to access the item, then slide the liner back into place.


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RE: How do you shove 65'' of @#$% into 5' of cabinets?

My aprons are folded in a pile in the same drawer with the piles of clean dish towels.

Can you hang the rolling pin in a nearby closet, or do you need it at hand because you make homemade macaroni all the time? If the latter, where in Boston do you live? Homemade macaroni is worth a six-hour drive. I'll bring the wine!

Binders full of women - LOL!


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I just realized I am assuming. . . .

I just realized that I am assuming the cabinet over the fridge will fit the footprint of the fridge. That it will be as deep as the fridge, not 13'' or 15'' deep like wall cabs usually are.

If that isn't the plan, I strongly recommend that you consider it.
FWIW, Here is mine, which is designed to solve a different problem. A pull out tray to allow side and front access, 28'' deep, 18'' high, 36'' wide. I store big stock pots and such up here.
Photobucket

With the pull out tray, I can reach almost everything except the back center without a step stool.


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RE: How do you shove 65'' of @#$% into 5' of cabinets?

a2gemini--Prep junk will live in the island, so I think I'm OK there.

Bellsmom (first comment)--My cabs are custom, so yes, I will spec them with full-depth drawers.

westsider40--I first had all glass uppers starting in 1995 and love them. There's a lot of kitchen junk I don't mind seeing at all. It's a kitchen. But I should ask whether at least some of the toekicks can be incorporated into the bottom drawers. Might be tricky with partial inset lipped overlay drawers.

circus and kitchen detective--No room for potracks, even if I didn't detest them.

Bellsmom (2)--Actually the entire fridge wall will be frameless except for the over-the-fridge cabs, which are indeed full depth. But that's a very interesting idea--make them fake inset. It's certainly possible.

Ginny, "homemade macaroni?" That's what we called it growing up! "Pasta" was for yuppies unless it was part of the actual Italian name for something, like pasta al pesto. Where are you? I grew up in Upstate NY.

Bellsmom (again)--how cool?

OK, I haven't had any direct comments on my graph paper drawing above. Seems like it would work, no?

BTW, because my drawers are partial inset lipped overlay, they aren't even as roomy as inset. So in cabinets where the drawer width has to be on the narrow side I may actually be much better off going with ROTs. I've had ROTs before and don't mind them.


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RE: How do you shove 65'' of @#$% into 5' of cabinets?

Well, I prefer reaching up to reaching down, but I'll support your ROTS choice because I dislike bending over and lifting weighty objects from drawers more than I dislike bending from the knees to accomplish the same goal. However, I seem to be in the minority on that one. Have you tried both motions to see which is more comfortable for you. (Please, no jokes here. I am serious.)

Question: Not sure what you mean by "lipped." Have you a photo?


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RE: How do you shove 65'' of @#$% into 5' of cabinets?

This is from Bay Area Francy's kitchen:

I'm having knobs, not latches, and there are some other differences--I'll try to avoid stiles between cabs where possible, and I'll have toekicks. But regardless, that's a partial lipped overlay drawer. It's what would've been in my house when it was built.

In my case, the edges of the drawers line up with the cabinets below. That means the actual drawer opening has to squeeze in just a little to make room for that overlay.


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RE: How do you shove 65'' of @#$% into 5' of cabinets?

I'm in Rochester. Where did you grow up?

Did you call it "sauce" or "gravy?" I'm half Sicilian and half mainland, and we always call it sauce. But apparently "gravy" is common around here.

Do you actually roll out and cut linguine by hand? Do you drape it over racks to dry, or cook it fresh? I cheat. I have a 1980s Takka electric pasta machine that mixes and extrudes the dough, which I cook fresh. I keep it in the basement, along with the pizzelle iron, because I only use it a few times a year.

I keep more commonly used small appliances, like the food processor, blender, mandolin, and french press on a pull-out shelf in a lower cab. I find it easier to get them in and out than in a drawer. I do nest things like pie plates, 9x13 pans, and mixing bowls in drawers. I also nest skillets with thin bubble wrap between them. I don't find it bothersome, and I managed to get a lot of stuff into my smallish kitchen.

I keep cake and muffin pans, racks, and the onion and potato bins on shelves in the broom closet around the corner. Do you have a closet you could use for overflow?


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RE: How do you shove 65'' of @#$% into 5' of cabinets?

"Pasta" was for yuppies unless it was part of the actual Italian name

Oh, gosh! I forgot about that. Yes, "pasta" was a foreign, yuppie term for us back in the day!

I am not Italian, but there were plenty in the 'hood. My best friend's family (and most other Italians near us, I think) were from Naples. They said "noodles and gravy." In my family, we did not have a generic name for pasta, but just said whatever the particular noodle was, like ziti or linguine, or whatever. If FORCED to have a generic term (as when, say, discussing a hypothetical dinner menu), we imitated our neighbors and said "noodles," but we knew it was an affectation for us. Interesting memories, thanks!


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RE: How do you shove 65'' of @#$% into 5' of cabinets?

1) East Side.
2) Sauce--gravy is what you put on meat.
3) 1/4 Sicilian, 3/4 mainland.
4) Yes, by hand. The machine is down in the basement somewhere. I'm a little faster by hand than the machine. I'm not anywhere near as good as my mom, but still good enough to laugh at all the long threads on Chowhound where non-Italians examine YouTube videos of grandmas in action and then pontificate on what the right motion is. (They're always wrong.)
5) I drape it over broomsticks. Dry it a little bit but then cook it fresh.

No closet available, unfortunately.


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RE: How do you shove 65'' of @#$% into 5' of cabinets?

Oh, got it. The ones I grew up with. Never knew that that's what they were called. (You found someone to do continuous face frames? Zowie!)


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RE: How do you shove 65'' of @#$% into 5' of cabinets?

You are actually from Rochester, or Rahch'ster, as we natives pronounce it? I live in Brighton now, but I grew up in Pittsford. My parents grew up near Clifford and Goodman when it was an Italian section.

And yes, gravy goes on meat. Angie may be right - maybe it's a "napolitan" expression. I'm not napolitan.


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RE: How do you shove 65'' of @#$% into 5' of cabinets?

My parents grew up near Clifford and Goodman when it was an Italian section.

I went to St. Philip's.

Anyway, do I have to pay people to get comments on my little drawing???


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RE: How do you shove 65'' of @#$% into 5' of cabinets?

Marcoloo - I thought pasta grew on trees! Just kidding but one of DHs favorite pictures is harvesting the pasta from the tree. I think it was an old advertisement.
In any case, I think you have lots of ideas to fit all of your stuff!
Kitchendetective - Zowie? One of my favorite words on GW!

Gravy goes on meat - Sauce on pasta (but no one called it pasta)!

Island - I can take the ribbing! - but the count is off - there is another one that belongs in there for a total of 11!


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RE: How do you shove 65'' of @#$% into 5' of cabinets?

Hi Marcolo. I have full overlay. My toekick drawers ARE part of the bottom drawer. Mine are just like the toekick drawer of loves2cook4six. I really really wish I knew how to post pics but as of now I don't. My cabs look like inset but they are full overlay. I have the same cabmaker as loves, Ayr.

My priority was as much storage as possible, easy to clean, and modern. Uncluttered, no decor, highly functional. I pivot in my new kitchen.

For example, I have my cutting boards in a flip up garage next to my sink so they are at arm's length. Vertical, not in an upper or lower. In that same garage are my coffeemaker, coffeemaking supplies (bag of coffee, filters, measure, creamer, water pitcher, stirrers), bagel guillotine, small food processor, and blender. The garage is 17+inches deep.

A utensil holder with 6 pairs of scissors, stirrers, and pens sits on the counter.
You cook a lot and I cook very little now but I could cook and even cater in my kitchen, easily.


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RE: How do you shove 65'' of @#$% into 5' of cabinets?

Re: your drawing, doesn't take full advantage of the cabinet depth. Too much of what is pictured is less than 15" deep.
Combined cab, 22-23" opening door and drawer to left with dividers and rollout for large trays and large fry and sauteuse, 33" opening 3 drawer base. You can get all the smaller (up to 11") fry pans in paired by tilting them slightly. Move saucepans out of susan and into drawers (up to 4qt ones) now put vertical plate racks in susan for the smaller cake and tart pans AND have the height set to take your cuisinart.


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RE: How do you shove 65'' of @#$% into 5' of cabinets?

Re: your drawing, doesn't take full advantage of the cabinet depth. Too much of what is pictured is less than 15" deep.
Combined cab, 22-23" opening door and drawer to left with dividers and rollout for large trays and large fry and sauteuse, 33" opening 3 drawer base. You can get all the smaller (up to 11") fry pans in paired by tilting them slightly. Move saucepans out of susan and into drawers (up to 4qt ones) now put vertical plate racks in susan for the smaller cake and tart pans AND have the height set to take your cuisinart.


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RE: How do you shove 65'' of @#$% into 5' of cabinets?

Re: your drawing, doesn't take full advantage of the cabinet depth. Too much of what is pictured is less than 15" deep.
Combined cab, 22-23" opening door and drawer to left with dividers and rollout for large trays and large fry and sauteuse, 33" opening 3 drawer base. You can get all the smaller (up to 11") fry pans in paired by tilting them slightly. Move saucepans out of susan and into drawers (up to 4qt ones) now put vertical plate racks in susan for the smaller cake and tart pans AND have the height set to take your cuisinart.


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RE: How do you shove 65'' of @#$% into 5' of cabinets?

About the diagram: do the dotted lines indicate anything about the space available or is all the space indicated in the vertical and horizontal space available for use? In other words do the dotted lines indicate trim that will interrupt the spaces? Also please describe the 12-inch Susan. I planned to do a matrix of spaces to utensils but my nearly total lack of sensation function may be getting in the way of understanding your rendering.

I did get as far as this:
Stack 1: about 11 pieces, with a need for a combined space 15 inches wide, 24 inches deep, and 27 inches high
Stack 2: about 10 pieces, with a need for a combined space 15X24X18
Stack 3: about 10 pieces, with a need for a combined space of 15X24X20
Also need room for 36X24 pasta board (and one smaller board) and for 36 inch rolling pin

That means a total of 34 pieces (19 in vertical and horizontal storage) much of remainder in pull outs and Susan. Remember to account for loss of space to dividers. Even more is lost for drawers and pull outs. The pull outs and drawer make sense to me - nice space for deeper, round or odd shaped things like your bunt pans but I don't understand the 12-inch Susan. I would think more vertical or horizontal space would get you more useful storage.

Seems the toe kick drawers could be sized to fit the pasta boards (one 36 inch+ drawer). Perhaps the rolling pin would fit on the diagonal in a second toe kick drawer.

I am enjoying seeing your progress.


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RE: How do you shove 65'' of @#$% into 5' of cabinets?

Comments on your graph paper drawing:
-looks like a nice mix of vertical and horizontal storage
-I don't understand the dotted line overlay, is that supposed to be one 36 inch door with panels to make it look like separate spaces? Seems like it would be inconvenient
-if you don't plan on leaving it as open storage, maybe make the top row all the way accross two sections of horizontal storage side by side and then the whole bottom half can be vertical storage slots. Then you can make the top a false door panel with a flip down hinge for access and the bottom a drawer from that flips down or is the from for a pull out with the slots.

Nice to see so many real upstaters here! I'm from the Albany area, so unless it's north of about Hudson it's not upstate. Then there's most of the rest of the state that's upstate, then way up north is the North Country.


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RE: How do you shove 65'' of @#$% into 5' of cabinets?

Anyway, do I have to pay people to get comments on my little drawing???

Well, I am entertaining offers... what figure you got in mind? ;-)

Okay, here is your drawing. I think it may help if you talked us through it a little more. What are you planning to put where?

I am not sure I follow what the dotted lines signify. Will these be truly open, or will there be faux drawer and cabinet fronts on the dotted lines to hide the shelves?

I suppose the vertical storage is pretty obvious -- anything that looks roughly like a cutting board or cookie sheet goes there. What goes in the horizontal? One skillet per cubbyhole? What goes in the ROTS?


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RE: How do you shove 65'' of @#$% into 5' of cabinets?

jakuvall, your posts are as densely packed as your cabinet designs! I'll have to think about this a bit more. Most of my pans seem narrow enough to fit into the slots I've drawn but I'm going to think about the setup you recommend. I'm trying to get general ideas in place for the architect's drawings and then it's on to the cabinetmaker. I just want to nail down my options first. Will circle back after more thinking.

orcasgramma, you bring up the same points as a couple other folks so I'll clarify.

The 12" susan: The left side of my sketch hits a corner. A 36" corner lazy susan cabinet projects 12" down the inside of each cabinet run, and that's what I've drawn. There's a corresponding 12" on the perpendicular run that's also part of the susan. So that 12" represents lots of storage.

As far as the dotted lines: I don't really know what I lose to trim. Remember these are custom continuous face frame--not separate boxes. So I lose less between cabinets than boxes would take. Yes, some of the trim space would be lost but I don't know how much. I just sketched that in there as a reminder to consider.

Yup, the toe kick is where the pasta board might go, if it's long enough. I don't think it can really go under the susan, though.

williamsen, yes, that would have to be two doors, not one big one.

Angie, I love the idea of frying pans on horizontal shelves, and that's what most of those would be for. I could stack 2 if need be for the smaller ones. A lid or two would also fit (I keep pot lids right on the pots in the susan). Those shelves should adjust. The horizontal dividers should also be adjustable, and that's where I put baking pans and cutting boards. The ROTs is for the Cuisinart and other oddly-sized junk. Or whatever. My one big worry with this scheme is lack of flexibility.

My sister suggests throwing all my pots and pans in a box along with a few ideas, bringing them to the cabinet maker and saying, make them fit! But I don't want something overcustomized to what I currently have now.


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RE: How do you shove 65'' of @#$% into 5' of cabinets?

Yeah. I commented on your drawing re: flexible shelves. Where's the cash?

How does one have fake inset? Also, toe kick incorporated into bottom drawer sounds interesting!


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RE: How do you shove 65'' of @#$% into 5' of cabinets?

the benches in the seating nook could probably get fitted with drawers that open out into kitchen for things not needed on a regular basis, if needed.Use flush mounted finger pulls or the like and they'll not look awkward with handles.


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RE: How do you shove 65'' of @#$% into 5' of cabinets?

No salad spinner spot?


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RE: How do you shove 65'' of @#$% into 5' of cabinets?

Yeah, the salad spinner is tough. Mine is in a deep drawer opposite the sink that also holds a large salad bowl and assorted other too-big-for-elsewhere stuff.

I love herb's idea for drawers in the benches. Great for cake pans. Easier to access than lifting the seat and reaching in.

You went to St. Philip Neri? My parents were married at St. Philip Neri Church, and my siblings and I were all baptized there. It was my grandparents' parish.


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RE: How do you shove 65'' of @#$% into 5' of cabinets?

Ginny, I'm not for sharing names on the Interwebs, but I think it's pretty much impossible that our families don't know each other. We were on Clifford. My aunt lived next to the convent.

My original plan called for bench storage, but the niche is too cramped for easy access, and morgue drawers will make the seats uncomfortable. Hard to explain but we tried all this out and it's not going to work right.

I rarely use the salad spinner anymore. I buy pre-washed and just decided to ignore the multiple times I've bitten into broken pieces of farm equipment.


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RE: How do you shove 65'' of @#$% into 5' of cabinets?

If Orcasgramma's counting is close, your plan is looking pretty promising. Your drawing has 12 vertical slots and 7 horizontal. I count about 11 things that look like they belong in vertical storage, and about 5 skillets/pans. The latter go in horizontal storage, as can some other things. If needed, you should be able to double up some of the vertical things and some of the horizontal things. The other items seem appropriate for the susan (perhaps with some of the dreaded nesting).

Looks pretty promising!


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RE: How do you shove 65'' of @#$% into 5' of cabinets?

marcolo, I understand completely. What a small world, and how funny that we figured it out because of what may be an Upstate colloquialism. Enjoy your homemade macaroni!


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RE: How do you shove 65'' of @#$% into 5' of cabinets?

I don't have any comments on your drawing, but I do have a couple other thoughts.
1. The rolling pin: Could it be suspended on a pair of coat hooks above a doorway or window like this quick sketch:(Now, I've tried to readjust this in photobucket at least 3 or 4 times. It's not cooperating. Hopefully you're on a laptop and can turn your screen so it's the right way. Sorry :/)rollingpinsketch I think this could be great on display and it would be easier than using up your cupboard space trying to store it. It makes a big statement about who you are and your heritage. : )
2. Don't underestimate the storage space over your fridge. I have 14 1/2" of height in the interior of this cupboard in my current kitchen. Now, I'm a nester, but a lot fits in this area.Photobucket
3. If it was me, I might be eyeballing the top shelf of the coat closet in the hall to house a box of kitchen items that I only needed a few times a year. Then I'd have more space for the stuff I used all the time in the kitchen.
4. This might be to kitchy, but how about keeping the cuisinart on the counter with a parrot print fabric cover? (or maybe not!) I think I'd put it into an appliance garage that doesn't look like one if I could. I don't like pulling my food processor in and out, but if it could live on the counter without looking like clutter, I'd use it more often.

I've copied a lot of the pictures posted on this thread, there's great storage ideas here.

Best wishes on your kitchen project.


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No constructive suggestions; a request for when you have time

Marcolo
I am astonished that it is better for you not to use the area under the benches for some kind of storage. That's a lot of cubic feet under there.

I am not doubting your decision, but trying to understand it.

I know you are swamped with planning and decisions now, and this is OT. But when you have time, please explain why ''morgue drawers'' aren't a good choice. I have no place to use them, but I have recommended them to friends. Why do they make for uncomfortable seating? Can that be avoided somehow?

And, FWIW, I am really enjoying following the evolution of your kitchen. What a joy it will be when you actually have all those new surfaces to stroke, those new drawers and shelves to organize, those new serendipities to discover.


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RE: How do you shove 65'' of @#$% into 5' of cabinets?

I love the rolling pin holder. Clever, accessible, and even has self- defense applications. Seriously, I think it's a great idea.


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Can you use the space between your susans and the cab walls.

Another off-the-wall idea:
I have a thread about this somewhere but can't find it. So, 3 quick pics:
I used to have a vertical tray storage cab beside my supersusan.
Here is what was in it (except for the dog)
Photobucket

Now, thanks to GW, those trays and stuff are stored in the existing waste 1 1/2'' space between the susans and the cab walls and under the super susan. All immediately accessible and nothing is stacked. The susans rotate as freely as they ever did.
Here the boards, trays, grill, and pans are pulled forward so you can see them. (the cab to the left is the old vertical tray storage.)
Photobucket

And, in the ''found'' space where the vertical tray storage used to be, there are now four full-depth pull-out trays that store numerous small sauce bowls, egg cups, individual syrup pitchers, ceramic platters,--a ton of little ''stuff'' that is now easily accessible also.
Photobucket

Don't know if your susans will fit all the way to the cabinet wall or not. But you only need 1 1/2 inches or less to slide in a tray or thin cutting board and most susans seem to have at least that much clearance on the sides.

If you find the idea acceptable, it would be easy to plan to have the space there.


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RE: How do you shove 65'' of @#$% into 5' of cabinets?

Now that is very clever, Bellsmom. And I am glad to see that I am not the only one with battle scarred cookie sheets. I have some very old ones that bake great cookies but aren't so good looking any more...


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RE: How do you shove 65'' of @#$% into 5' of cabinets?

Love all that storage, Bellsmom. I think morgue drawers aren't good because you can't tuck your feet back under the seat. There is a poorly designed restaurant near me (absolutely not a thing to mitigate noise from echoing around) that has booths with bench seats and while the underside might have a bit of a slant it isn't enough so there is a thumping noise every time someone tries to tuck their feet back and they thwack against the plywood.


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65" of storage

onedogedie

Thanks. I bet foot clearance is the problem. Can morgue drawers be wedge-shaped on one side? Or be made a few inches narrower than the top of the bench? Even losing 1/3 of the space would still make the drawers worth it, I should think.

Interesting. How much of a difference in width is needed between the top and bottom of a bench for comfortable seating, I wonder.

Ah, the things we learn on GW! But probably best to let the morgue drawer topic die lest I stand accused of hijacking Marcolo's kitchen thread.


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RE: How do you shove 65'' of @#$% into 5' of cabinets?

Ginny--Were you baptized in the new church or the old church? I remember when the old church burned.

Laughable--the rolling pin idea is genius. I can actually use that to display my mom's rolling pin that I inherited, and then hang the long one along the door next to it!

And the Cuisinart cozy? DOUBLE GENIUS. That can be my backup plan.

Bellsmom--yes, morgue drawers lose you foot space. In a more open banquette that's fine, but in mine I think I'll need the room. Plus my benches are going to look like traditional breakfast nook benches, so the drawers would be tough to integrate. Otherwise they're a great idea. And I'll be sure to check out spare room in the susan.


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Rolling pins

Oh, the idea of Mom's rolling pin displayed over the door and the long one hanging nearby makes me smile. Or stack them above the door, the used one and the treasured one united by proximity, the lower one taken down and used periodically, the upper one smiled at.
I love family pieces in the kitchen, love using them, seeing them, remembering them.
Seeing mom's rolling pin displayed over the door will make you smile every time you see it.
Somehow, more than any other room in the our house, the kitchen is about family history. Wish I could figure out how to work my father's miter box into the display!


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RE: How do you shove 65'' of @#$% into 5' of cabinets?

Old church. I was 10 when the church burned. Poor Father Weinmann.

The Rolling Pin Solution (sounds like an episode of Big Bang Theory)is perfect.


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RE: How do you shove 65'' of @#$% into 5' of cabinets?

Mama_goose actually has that rolling pin thing...

Here is a link that might be useful: rolling pin


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RE: How do you shove 65'' of @#$% into 5' of cabinets?

That's perfect. Since it's my mom's rolling pin up there, on the doorway to the DR, I can also depend on it to dispatch any unwanted guests.

Ginny: Yes, his clothes were always threadbare. Never paid any attention to himself, always worrying about other people. And poor Sister Lillian Marie. I can picture her. I was in first grade. I guess the parish closed about ten years ago.

Back to the cabinet:

So I freaked out the staff at Williams Sonoma today by asking to borrow a tape measure and then measuring their displays. It was too hard to really judge what will fit, though. I'm going to have to go to the cab guy on this. If anybody can think of a completely different configuration from what I posted, let me know.


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RE: How do you shove 65'' of @#$% into 5' of cabinets?

I find it's (very slightly) less disturbing to store staff if you bring your own tape measure. Lowes sells little ones on a key chain that are I think 8 or 10 feet.

Saw this on Amazon last night and thought of you! I don't want to think about what that says about my current social life...

Here is a link that might be useful: Extra tray storage!


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RE: How do you shove 65'' of @#$% into 5' of cabinets?

I'm not convinced you a taking advantage of the full depth of the cabinet. What about two full height pull outs, one would have a board running front to back at the top with hooks for the frying pans to hang from as well as a shallow box at the bottom to line up all those smaller round items stacked on the right in your original pic. The other one would have a traditional tray storage rack on the bottom that pulls out, and in the cabinet space at the top maybe two or three shallow shelves that would be accessible when open. This would allow you to store the trays two deep for the ones that are small enough and still be able to see them all at a glance.


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