With thin foam boards separating each item, the tall left stack is 27", the middle stack is 18" and the third stack is 20" tall.

All three are roughly 15" wide and will fit 24" deep or less.

One of these frypans is 13" in diameter and 23" long with handle.

I may replace some of these aging beasts when the kitchen is done but the volume will probably stay similar. Before I measured I was hoping to do something like this:

However, that would require a full 36" cabinet with no drawers. And that's with undercounting the space required, because you obviously need air between shelves to slide things in. I also have to fit in a spice drawer, Cuisinart storage, and probably a few other major things on the same cabinet run, too.

An alternative is this configuration:

Or drawers:

There's also weird stuff like this:

But my question isn't really about who loves their drawers. What I really need is help with geometry. How can I get all this stuff into the minimum space? I've treated everything the same but there are a few things like cookie sheets I don't mind stacking. Plus frying and saute pans could be treated differently from baking dishes. But I still need to preserve as much room as possible in this 5' cabinet run.

Anybody like problem sets?

Good luck!

This has to fit in less than 5' undercab, no uppers and no over the fridge storage. Except for maybe the Christmas pudding mold I haven't used since 1986.

Are you sure you can't stick some over the fridge? You're having a fridge aren't you?

Toe-kick drawer could hold the flatter things (cutting boards, cookie sheet).

Contents: 2 springform pans, 5 pie plates, 3 Pyrex dishes (one rectangular, two square), 2 loaf pans, 2 tube pans (straight sides), 1 bundt pan (fluted), 3 cake pans, one 12-count and two 6-count muffin tins, one mini muffin tin, 3 big rectangular metal pans (one with a drip rack and lid), 1 square brownie pan, and 1 ceramic bird that is supposed to be stuck in a pie to let steam out, which somebody gave me but I have never used.

I do use all this stuff (except the bird), just not every day or even every week.

My skillets and pots are in the lazy susan corner cab next to the range. My cookie sheets, pizza pan, splatter screen etc are in the warming drawer of my range (hey, the old range just had a normal drawer so that was where they lived before). I need to move all those up to the over-fridge cabinet if I can shift DH's giant box of light bulbs (seriously, it's huge) somewhere else.

If you used some sort of flexible divider like cloth or paper towels in between, would you be willing to nest? I presume you want to avoid scratches.

The mold in the picture is a Bundt cake pan. Makes spectacular cakes with only a sprinkling of confectioners'. The plum pudding mold, not pictured, is built for steaming and has more buckles and latches than a chastity belt. Very British.

So I did some inaccurate math.

If I copy the second picture I get a total of 72" of linear space, but I have to subtract an unknown amount for dividers and frame.

If I combine the first and second pictures, I get a fraction more--75". This makes the left 21" vertical storage as in picture 2 above. Then the last 15" can be horizontal, as in picture 2. Some of that extra will be eaten up by more interior framing so it's a wash at best. However, I think fry pans and saute pans are easier to handle laying flat, no?

Kills me to use so much space so inflexibly.

And my Cuisinart! And my splatter guards! And my colanders!

Large fry can fit in top drawer of frameless drawer-note cake pans and such work in 13" deep wall cabs.

Only caveat- when I do this I always make sure it is a singgle door or RO is a pain.

Once you do the math might mix in drawer base for part of the run- 2 drawer with rollout in one or 3 drawer- best if you can alter face or specify rails.

Can you hang a few things up or otherwise display them? That Christmas pudding mold is cool and would look great in my kitchen, if you decide you don't want/have room for it :)

I don't so much mind the front of Northcarolina's drawer, with pans nested vertically like files in a drawer.

IRL I will nest some cake pans because I don't bake every day. But that stands in for the extra 6" inches of interior space that always seems to disappear just because.

Good luck!

Can anybody else join northcarolina in showing me a lot of junk in a drawer or lower cabinet? Maybe it will give me a better sense of how much I really need. Do two of those drawers equal the storage of my pic #2 above? That still wouldn't allow a top drawer, would it?

BTW use that pie bird. They're cute.

Oh, and yes, anything remotely attractive can go into my glass uppers. That doesn't encompass much bakeware, unfortunately.

I'm not even asking where to put my 36 x 24" pasta board. Yet.

That's my best guess. Thanks for posting all those great pics! And for proving to DH I'm not the only one likely to be drawing interior drawer space squares to try out, or stacking items to figure out how to store them :-)

Ala this:

PS - Marcolo please check out my new thread called "Spinning". I did my homework and could really use your feedback.

williamsem, how tall would the drawers have to be for a two-drawer stack?

And if I devote all this drawerage to the clanking bakeware and fry pans, whither my Cuisinart? It's 14" tall if I store it all assembled, which would be lovely, but I'm not dedicating a whole cabinet to it. My plan was a ROTS, but then I've got no more drawers in that area. Maybe I don't need them?

Why not get a cardboard box the size of a drawer, and play with filling it with your actual stuff? May be very instructive.

Sorry, no ideas on what to do, just sharing what doesn't work that well for me.

My large fp (I have a large and a small) is a honkin commercial beast standing 15.5" tall. I have to store it with the top off next to the base.

Tonight is my last night of after-surgery Vicodin. Promise I'll be nicer tomorrow. ;)

Second pic- LOW 5 1/4" high dividers- fry pans tilted to clear drawer (NO nesting except pasta set)

For inset side-
mount glides in top drawers to gain height and use them for large fry pans >11" or sauteuse., I have done 3 drawer base with no stile between 2nd and 3rd drawers, prefer how it looks next to cabs with doors and gains more drawer height.
Can you alter the rail height-even saving 1/4" can help in top and bottom rail but adds cost and have to do all cabs if you do that.
Combine cabinets using common stiles to save space- whatever you end up with should be configured as one big cabinet.

Now I have to get back to work :)

Another drawer with NO insert:

Speaking of skillets, where are your saucepans and stuff going? Or, lids? Can the skillets live there with the other stovetop items?

But like Breezy says, something needs to change if your new kitchen won't hold all your crap. Maybe inset cabinetry isn't a good choice. Maybe the layout isn't as complete as you'd thought. You don't want to be tight on space while it's still on paper!

Sort your stuff into what is used all the time and what is used infrequently.

The pots and pans we use all the time are very accessible, close to the stove and not at all crowded. The rest are a bit more crowded and less conveniently stored.

I have the baking pans and sheets and racks I use all the time near my baking center. The rest of it, which is used infrequently is a bit more crowded together and in a less convenient spot.

I have my spices I use all the time in my prep space. I have the other spices alphabetically in my pantry.

No garage sale for these babies, unless they're replaced with new. I don't really think I have an unusual number of pans at all--I've just stacked them so they can be seen all at once. Some can be nested IRL but not the frypans and not the ceramics. Plus an Aga Legacy takes a LOT of smaller roasting pans in its tall oven, so those need to be at the ready.

I've got to play with some of the ideas here. jakuvall gives some cool ways to avoid the inset issue with the fake drawers. I'll look at that.

Then you get to waste space you apparently are now complaining you do not have.

What helped me was laying it all out in a big room (HUGE PITA but very helpful), I separated EVERYTHING into batches or sections of how I would want it in the kitchen and measured the smallest dimensions I would comfortably be able to stack or nest it to, then padded the numbers slightly assuming I was not done buying new kitchen gadgets or upgrading something or other. Most was pretty easy, cookie sheets together, large appliances by themselves, casserole dishes together, and so on. The problem in the end was the same as you, at some point the math just doesn't work out.

My solution will probably not work for you, but at some point you need to start either making concessions, or thinking much further outside of the box than you are. We decided to not do cabinets with counter on one side of our kitchen and instead do an island that some (most) would not do (small kitchen). We are doing a built in the entire length of the wall, floor to ceiling. It was either this or store my kitchen stuff in the garage, and well, I don't have a garage ;-(

My issue with nesting is both scratching and access--both. I already use towels between nonstick frypans but they always seem to wander off. And those pans in particular are a bear to pull out if they're nested because they're heavy and give you only one place to hold them all up, meaning the handle. But I don't mind nesting cookie sheets or jelly roll pans or whatnot.

Pots and saucepans will go into a corner susan, which I am happy with. Hopefully some small appliances will fit there as well, though I still don't know what to do with the Cuisinart. I need room for that, and colanders and whatnot, which is why I hope to squeeze the baking pans and frypans down a little in space.

But seriously, compromise is the way to happiness. Nest what you can handle being nested. Ditch the oysterboard and use cut out circles of shelf liner to cushion between pots and pans (the towels wandered off because they were inadvertently used as . . . towels). Store the veryveryveryseldomused item elsewhere -- maybe not even in the kitchen.

You can do this!

Try the organizing forum. They'll tell you to throw away half of it but after they get that out of their systems yo might get some nuggets.

So the overall layout is set in stone? I'm thinkin' it needs more work. It doesn't do what it needs to do.

I have little to no open wall space in the kitchen, shannonplus2.

I do think some combo of drawers and tray storage can fix me up.

Seriously consider whether replacing some of your cookware (say buying skillets with shorter handles) will solve some of your problems.

My lazy susan cabinet is 36", if that helps, with solid shelves fitted with no-pole susans instead of the Ikea standard ones. The door is the kind with hinges. I'm able to get large things in and out without trouble (meaning the big slow cooker, the 7-qt dutch oven, and the 12-qt stock pot) but yes, it would be easier to lift them straight up from a drawer if I had one big enough. I keep the appliances that are short enough in another 36" deep drawer: the food processor, electric grill, toaster when I get tired of looking at its white plastic awesomeness, hand mixer, etc.

My wrists are getting tired of using the hand mixer for stiff cookie dough, so I probably need a stand mixer. I have NO idea where it's going to go. I am not looking at the pretty ones that look impressive sitting on the countertop (leaning toward a Bosch -- more white plastic).

What I was going to suggest, though, is redefining perfect storage. Instead of all this stuff together, how about refusing to have anything in your central work area that you don't use "all the time" (with special exceptions of course)? This philosophy allows me to put my 14" fry pan, wok, various baking items on the far side of the kitchen "where they belong," i.e., not crowding my busy work area, serene in the knowledge that all is right in the kitchen. :)

First, think of how you'd store these items in an ideal world, regardless of space. Door with horizontal shelves or vertical dividers or both, or drawers (some with and/or without dividers)? What "layout" is preferred for certain items?

Second, group items that you'd like to store in a particular "layout" together. How many "layout areas" do you need? And how much space do you need within that area? Something that might help is to literally use a section of counter, your current cabinet space, or get some different sized cardboard boxes, and pretend you have a door or drawer box. Measure it out, and determine how much space do you need -- vertically and horizontally -- for a particular layout area.

Third, find out some approximate dimensions for your cabinet type. How deep are the boxes? How much is lost due to a drawer, a divider? For example, my cabinetmaker wanted the vertical dividers to be thicker than the removeable pot dividers that I'm placing in a drawer box.

In my case, I wanted -->

1) Tall vertical dividers in a door box (a space like photo #3, but without the horizontal divider) to store: large baking sheets/trays, pizza peel, cutting boards less used, roasting pan.

2) Shallow drawers to store: bunt, tart and cake pans, pie plates. I could lay these items out four square and did not need a deep drawer box for these. Also, I was OK with some nesting here, just not too much.

3) Short vertical dividers in a tall drawer box (from the outside, it looks like two drawers -- but inside, it's similar to photo #5) to store: fry and cast iron pans, pan lids. I did not want any nesting here (other than some pan lids). In this case, remember, the drawer box can be made shorter if you allow the pans' handles to tilt diagonally vs. straight-up vertically as in the photo. When looking down on the drawer box, you also can have some dividers run horizontally, some vertically to accommodate larger and smaller fry pans/lids. I made my divider one piece so I can pull it out and re-design/replace it if necessary without affecting the drawer.

4) I thought of doing a combo door box that contained both vertical and horizontal dividers. But I nixed this because I thought items I would store in the horizontal dividers would get lost in the depth.

I put together a detailed Excel spreadsheet that shows what I have in each of my drawer/door boxes, and I'd be happy to share this (with my cabinet plans) with anyone interested if you're not bored enough already :-)

Good luck. And don't forget to re-check all of your measurements (using the interior useable space) once you have your plans and know what you're storing where.

Most of my pots are in this drawer - 36 inches wide. There is a second drawer below with other pans and misc items including my blender, mini chop, hard boiled egg cooker, etc. My food processor is in a slightly taller drawer across the way.

Baking dishes are in 30 inch cabinets - the insulated pans are too tall to go sideways - but with my new oven, I can probably replace them with standard pans

Cutting boards line up in my itty bitty cabinet - I was going to swap out for 2 drawers but then figured out how much more this holds and is easy to grab one. The lower two shelves hold my sink basket (just couldn't let it live in the sink) and my slicer that I hardly ever think to use.

My large pots live in the corner with the super susan - my most used items are front and to the left - I only have to open the first part of the door to grab - these larger items require me to open the entire door and spin.

I think vertical will give you more storage and easier to snag items- I like your little grid cabinet. In any case, you will need to stack a few items together to get everything into your space!

Good luck!!!

I'd like these shelves and dividers to be as adjustable as possible.

circus, good to know I can get good at math in about a thousand years.

Also, I store my nonstick pans on a vinyl-coated plate stack thing:

I can put away the 10" and 12" pans without pulling out the ROS since the handles are long enough.

Since I had an extra plate stack thing, I used to vertically store the three sets of plates for my Cuisinart Griddler:

hth

How big is that cuisinart, anyway? We talking food processor or something else?

((cough cough, 1975, cough cough))

How do you adjust a super susan? You crawl into the cabinet and raise it up on your back like an Ayn Rand character?

I'm sure something will go above the fridge. But if I have only 13" max to play with for crown and cabinet frame it won't be much. Maybe it's a good place for my binders full of women.

The Cuisinart is 14" tall if you store it with the bowl on, which I have never done but would like to do. When it's kept in pieces, digging up all the plastic parts and blades inevitably turns into a Lucy skit with slasher overtones.

Bellsmom used the adjustable shelves that came with her cabinet to put the round susan on, with a bearing ring of course, and then adjusted the shelves with the track (or however her cabs adjust) to suit her contents. A link to her thread with lots of cool pics is below and she explains it far better than I. It seems like it would make alot more of the blind corner cab useful, which is one way to fit that extra 5" of stuff.

Still trying to think of how the corner-shaped door/drawer fronts can be attached like you want them and yet be adjustable...

Or have you thought any more about the Korner King like mrsjoe installed? Though it looks like it has the same problem of a separate door to open, which you don't like.
Here's the thread link:
http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/kitchbath/msg0714535912541.html

Think I'm most curious about now is a2Gemini why the heck so many cutting boards? Do I see 10 of them??

I guess I better not show the over fridge picture - snagged the built in cutting board from old kitchen and DH giant board...

Didn't realize I was getting carried away til you pointed it out.

Sorry to high jack a bit of fun!

When we were married - one of our friends gave us a 3 foot Bam Bam bat (plastic), so I could use it to get DH attention - fortunately, I haven't needed it - but we still have it standing in a Bedroom corner.

Hang in there - it will all come together.

On your one plan - is the total opening for the corner 12 inches or is that just one side - I think 12 inches is a bit small.

OMG! My apron! I'm almost hoping my fridge will require a filler at this point. A towering roll-out would solve lots of problems even though it would mess up the symmetry.

Too bad you are not in the area or I could give you a tour de kitchen :-)

You will find space for all

Impressed that you make your own pasta- haven't tackled that yet.
Wow!

Don't think it will work for you, but here is where my iron skillets (the biggest are a 12'' diameter round one and the 16'' long fish fryer), big (as huge) mauviel copper skillets, stew pans, and sauce pans live. The big copper skillet slightly to the right of center is 22'' long counting handle and 11'' wide. Plus the unit houses six shelf feet of cookbooks.

All those pots and pans would have taken up way more than a 36'' drawer cabinet. And every one of them is immediately accessible without opening a door or pulling out a drawer or stacking and unstacking.

I am not sure where your design has taken you lately, but I can't help wondering if there is not some AHA! solution that, like these racks, will invent storage space for you.

And an aside--are you SURE your cabinets are being built with drawers that are full depth? I was shocked to learn that most (including mine, darn it) drawers are inches shorter than their boxes. Usually 20'' deep in 24'' deep boxes. Shelves, on the other hand, do extend the full depth.

Glass cabs? Think again. You got caught up. Keep all your stuff and ditch the glass or ditch some stuff.

I have 3 toekick drawers. Each of the toekicks is part of the large 3rd drawer. Ayr Custom Cab co. did mine, just like loves2cook4six-there is a clipping in this thread of her upper with pans lined up hanging-and the Ayr Cab. watermark.

I am sorry no pics.

I have 10 x 18 kitchen. No cd fridge for me as I need the space and have my fridge recessed. Gained 3 inches. My full fridge is 34 1/4 deep and has 25 c. f. French doors. Cabs built around unit and it looks built in. I guess it is but I didn't have to buy a cd or built in fridge.

northcarolina and gemini have nailed the solution.

I am all about function and storage and modern.

I guess you can tell how I deal with storage issues.

"I'm sure something will go above the fridge. But if I have only 13" max to play with for crown and cabinet frame it won't be much. Maybe it's a good place for my binders full of women."

;-) Yes, a good belly laugh and tea everywhere.

IF you can make the cab over the fridge frameless (by cheating as someone showed previously and making the rails and side trim part of the doors?), slots like those used for vertical dividers in pot drawers could be cut into the sides and back at 1'' intervals.

Then 1/2'' adjustable shelves (save an inch or more by not using 3/4'' shelving which you won't need for light objects stored flat on shelves that are supported on 3 sides) can be used. Place the shelves close together and slide in the big cutting board, cookie sheets, and anything else flat and large. Because this cabinet will probably be 24'' deep, most of the shelves will take two or three items side by side. Stack the cutting boards and cookie sheets two high when possible. You will want maybe 1 1/2'' to 2'' between shelves.

I think you could have at least four 1/2'' shelves and the bottom for a total of 5 narrow storage spaces in a 13'' high cab.

If you can't make this a frameless box, you can still use four or five shelves and a conventional system of shelf supports, but you probably won't be able to remove the shelves from the cabinet or add new ones.

Advantages of this are obvious.
Disadvantage is that an item stuffed to the back will be a PIA to retrieve in that narrow spacing. I think I would give up 1/2'' of vertical storage and line the shelves with Cushy Cupboard shelf liner, cut into two pieces on each shelf. With this particular shelf liner, if something gets pushed back, you can easily pull the liner forward to access the item, then slide the liner back into place.

Can you hang the rolling pin in a nearby closet, or do you need it at hand because you make homemade macaroni all the time? If the latter, where in Boston do you live? Homemade macaroni is worth a six-hour drive. I'll bring the wine!

Binders full of women - LOL!

If that isn't the plan, I strongly recommend that you consider it.
FWIW, Here is mine, which is designed to solve a different problem. A pull out tray to allow side and front access, 28'' deep, 18'' high, 36'' wide. I store big stock pots and such up here.

With the pull out tray, I can reach almost everything except the back center without a step stool.

Bellsmom (first comment)--My cabs are custom, so yes, I will spec them with full-depth drawers.

westsider40--I first had all glass uppers starting in 1995 and love them. There's a lot of kitchen junk I don't mind seeing at all. It's a kitchen. But I should ask whether at least some of the toekicks can be incorporated into the bottom drawers. Might be tricky with partial inset lipped overlay drawers.

circus and kitchen detective--No room for potracks, even if I didn't detest them.

Bellsmom (2)--Actually the entire fridge wall will be frameless except for the over-the-fridge cabs, which are indeed full depth. But that's a very interesting idea--make them fake inset. It's certainly possible.

Ginny, "homemade macaroni?" That's what we called it growing up! "Pasta" was for yuppies unless it was part of the actual Italian name for something, like pasta al pesto. Where are you? I grew up in Upstate NY.

Bellsmom (again)--how cool?

OK, I haven't had any direct comments on my graph paper drawing above. Seems like it would work, no?

BTW, because my drawers are partial inset lipped overlay, they aren't even as roomy as inset. So in cabinets where the drawer width has to be on the narrow side I may actually be much better off going with ROTs. I've had ROTs before and don't mind them.

Question: Not sure what you mean by "lipped." Have you a photo?

I'm having knobs, not latches, and there are some other differences--I'll try to avoid stiles between cabs where possible, and I'll have toekicks. But regardless, that's a partial lipped overlay drawer. It's what would've been in my house when it was built.

In my case, the edges of the drawers line up with the cabinets below. That means the actual drawer opening has to squeeze in just a little to make room for that overlay.

Did you call it "sauce" or "gravy?" I'm half Sicilian and half mainland, and we always call it sauce. But apparently "gravy" is common around here.

Do you actually roll out and cut linguine by hand? Do you drape it over racks to dry, or cook it fresh? I cheat. I have a 1980s Takka electric pasta machine that mixes and extrudes the dough, which I cook fresh. I keep it in the basement, along with the pizzelle iron, because I only use it a few times a year.

I keep more commonly used small appliances, like the food processor, blender, mandolin, and french press on a pull-out shelf in a lower cab. I find it easier to get them in and out than in a drawer. I do nest things like pie plates, 9x13 pans, and mixing bowls in drawers. I also nest skillets with thin bubble wrap between them. I don't find it bothersome, and I managed to get a lot of stuff into my smallish kitchen.

I keep cake and muffin pans, racks, and the onion and potato bins on shelves in the broom closet around the corner. Do you have a closet you could use for overflow?

Oh, gosh! I forgot about that. Yes, "pasta" was a foreign, yuppie term for us back in the day!

I am not Italian, but there were plenty in the 'hood. My best friend's family (and most other Italians near us, I think) were from Naples. They said "noodles and gravy." In my family, we did not have a generic name for pasta, but just said whatever the particular noodle was, like ziti or linguine, or whatever. If FORCED to have a generic term (as when, say, discussing a hypothetical dinner menu), we imitated our neighbors and said "noodles," but we knew it was an affectation for us. Interesting memories, thanks!

No closet available, unfortunately.

And yes, gravy goes on meat. Angie may be right - maybe it's a "napolitan" expression. I'm not napolitan.

I went to St. Philip's.

Anyway, do I have to pay people to get comments on my little drawing???

Gravy goes on meat - Sauce on pasta (but no one called it pasta)!

Island - I can take the ribbing! - but the count is off - there is another one that belongs in there for a total of 11!

My priority was as much storage as possible, easy to clean, and modern. Uncluttered, no decor, highly functional. I pivot in my new kitchen.

For example, I have my cutting boards in a flip up garage next to my sink so they are at arm's length. Vertical, not in an upper or lower. In that same garage are my coffeemaker, coffeemaking supplies (bag of coffee, filters, measure, creamer, water pitcher, stirrers), bagel guillotine, small food processor, and blender. The garage is 17+inches deep.

A utensil holder with 6 pairs of scissors, stirrers, and pens sits on the counter.
You cook a lot and I cook very little now but I could cook and even cater in my kitchen, easily.

I did get as far as this:
Stack 1: about 11 pieces, with a need for a combined space 15 inches wide, 24 inches deep, and 27 inches high
Stack 2: about 10 pieces, with a need for a combined space 15X24X18
Stack 3: about 10 pieces, with a need for a combined space of 15X24X20
Also need room for 36X24 pasta board (and one smaller board) and for 36 inch rolling pin

That means a total of 34 pieces (19 in vertical and horizontal storage) much of remainder in pull outs and Susan. Remember to account for loss of space to dividers. Even more is lost for drawers and pull outs. The pull outs and drawer make sense to me - nice space for deeper, round or odd shaped things like your bunt pans but I don't understand the 12-inch Susan. I would think more vertical or horizontal space would get you more useful storage.

Seems the toe kick drawers could be sized to fit the pasta boards (one 36 inch+ drawer). Perhaps the rolling pin would fit on the diagonal in a second toe kick drawer.

I am enjoying seeing your progress.

Nice to see so many real upstaters here! I'm from the Albany area, so unless it's north of about Hudson it's not upstate. Then there's most of the rest of the state that's upstate, then way up north is the North Country.

Well, I am entertaining offers... what figure you got in mind? ;-)

Okay, here is your drawing. I think it may help if you talked us through it a little more. What are you planning to put where?

I am not sure I follow what the dotted lines signify. Will these be truly open, or will there be faux drawer and cabinet fronts on the dotted lines to hide the shelves?

I suppose the vertical storage is pretty obvious -- anything that looks roughly like a cutting board or cookie sheet goes there. What goes in the horizontal? One skillet per cubbyhole? What goes in the ROTS?

orcasgramma, you bring up the same points as a couple other folks so I'll clarify.

The 12" susan: The left side of my sketch hits a corner. A 36" corner lazy susan cabinet projects 12" down the inside of each cabinet run, and that's what I've drawn. There's a corresponding 12" on the perpendicular run that's also part of the susan. So that 12" represents lots of storage.

As far as the dotted lines: I don't really know what I lose to trim. Remember these are custom continuous face frame--not separate boxes. So I lose less between cabinets than boxes would take. Yes, some of the trim space would be lost but I don't know how much. I just sketched that in there as a reminder to consider.

Yup, the toe kick is where the pasta board might go, if it's long enough. I don't think it can really go under the susan, though.

williamsen, yes, that would have to be two doors, not one big one.

Angie, I love the idea of frying pans on horizontal shelves, and that's what most of those would be for. I could stack 2 if need be for the smaller ones. A lid or two would also fit (I keep pot lids right on the pots in the susan). Those shelves should adjust. The horizontal dividers should also be adjustable, and that's where I put baking pans and cutting boards. The ROTs is for the Cuisinart and other oddly-sized junk. Or whatever. My one big worry with this scheme is lack of flexibility.

My sister suggests throwing all my pots and pans in a box along with a few ideas, bringing them to the cabinet maker and saying, make them fit! But I don't want something overcustomized to what I currently have now.

How does one have fake inset? Also, toe kick incorporated into bottom drawer sounds interesting!

I love herb's idea for drawers in the benches. Great for cake pans. Easier to access than lifting the seat and reaching in.

You went to St. Philip Neri? My parents were married at St. Philip Neri Church, and my siblings and I were all baptized there. It was my grandparents' parish.

My original plan called for bench storage, but the niche is too cramped for easy access, and morgue drawers will make the seats uncomfortable. Hard to explain but we tried all this out and it's not going to work right.

I rarely use the salad spinner anymore. I buy pre-washed and just decided to ignore the multiple times I've bitten into broken pieces of farm equipment.

Looks pretty promising!

I've copied a lot of the pictures posted on this thread, there's great storage ideas here.

Best wishes on your kitchen project.

I am not doubting your decision, but trying to understand it.

I know you are swamped with planning and decisions now, and this is OT. But when you have time, please explain why ''morgue drawers'' aren't a good choice. I have no place to use them, but I have recommended them to friends. Why do they make for uncomfortable seating? Can that be avoided somehow?

And, FWIW, I am really enjoying following the evolution of your kitchen. What a joy it will be when you actually have all those new surfaces to stroke, those new drawers and shelves to organize, those new serendipities to discover.

Now, thanks to GW, those trays and stuff are stored in the existing waste 1 1/2'' space between the susans and the cab walls and under the super susan. All immediately accessible and nothing is stacked. The susans rotate as freely as they ever did.
Here the boards, trays, grill, and pans are pulled forward so you can see them. (the cab to the left is the old vertical tray storage.)

And, in the ''found'' space where the vertical tray storage used to be, there are now four full-depth pull-out trays that store numerous small sauce bowls, egg cups, individual syrup pitchers, ceramic platters,--a ton of little ''stuff'' that is now easily accessible also.

Don't know if your susans will fit all the way to the cabinet wall or not. But you only need 1 1/2 inches or less to slide in a tray or thin cutting board and most susans seem to have at least that much clearance on the sides.

If you find the idea acceptable, it would be easy to plan to have the space there.

Thanks. I bet foot clearance is the problem. Can morgue drawers be wedge-shaped on one side? Or be made a few inches narrower than the top of the bench? Even losing 1/3 of the space would still make the drawers worth it, I should think.

Interesting. How much of a difference in width is needed between the top and bottom of a bench for comfortable seating, I wonder.

Ah, the things we learn on GW! But probably best to let the morgue drawer topic die lest I stand accused of hijacking Marcolo's kitchen thread.

Laughable--the rolling pin idea is genius. I can actually use that to display my mom's rolling pin that I inherited, and then hang the long one along the door next to it!

And the Cuisinart cozy? DOUBLE GENIUS. That can be my backup plan.

Bellsmom--yes, morgue drawers lose you foot space. In a more open banquette that's fine, but in mine I think I'll need the room. Plus my benches are going to look like traditional breakfast nook benches, so the drawers would be tough to integrate. Otherwise they're a great idea. And I'll be sure to check out spare room in the susan.

The Rolling Pin Solution (sounds like an episode of Big Bang Theory)is perfect.

Ginny: Yes, his clothes were always threadbare. Never paid any attention to himself, always worrying about other people. And poor Sister Lillian Marie. I can picture her. I was in first grade. I guess the parish closed about ten years ago.

Back to the cabinet:

So I freaked out the staff at Williams Sonoma today by asking to borrow a tape measure and then measuring their displays. It was too hard to really judge what will fit, though. I'm going to have to go to the cab guy on this. If anybody can think of a completely different configuration from what I posted, let me know.

Saw this on Amazon last night and thought of you! I don't want to think about what that says about my current social life...