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I have a pantry suggestion... Ventilate!

Posted by sharb (My Page) on
Tue, Oct 30, 07 at 14:17

We learn so much AFTER the remodel is completed.

My pantry suggestion, after living with my new pantry for almost a year now, is to ventilate your pantry. My foods are picking up odors from the pantry and I hate the taste. Even a fairly new box of cereal takes on this taste. I'm going to have to get someone out here to help me remedy this.

Another suggestion while I'm at it.. I would put all electrical switches in the kitchen/dining area grouped in one spot. I suggested this during construction and was told that would not be most efficient.. I should not have listened. I would like to stand in one spot and regulate the lighting from there. Why walk around the room searching for switches?

Just thought I would pass along a couple of things that irritate me so that I might be able to help someone else.

SharB


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: I have a pantry suggestion... Ventilate!

I am having a similar issue with my pull out pantry as well. it has a very musty smell- I've thrown out bread from the smell. I have taken to leaving the doors open during the day to "air it out"...Would love to hear other suggestions.


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RE: I have a pantry suggestion... Ventilate!

I'm confused. Why would it be any different than food you may keep in a standard kitchen cabinet?


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RE: I have a pantry suggestion... Ventilate!

Years ago I remember a kitchen design book, written in the UK I think, that advised having fresh air come in through the bottom of the pantry & flow through to the kitchen & beyond. Sounds like a great idea in a more temperate climate, but I can't imagine it working in the US.


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RE: I have a pantry suggestion... Ventilate!

I don't know why my new pantry is picking up so many odors. We have lived in this house since 1972, with a much smaller (not walk in) pantry. My foods did not pick up odors, but we live close to the beach and my cereals and crackers would get damp. So, when doing this remodel and now a walk in pantry, I asked them to insulate the whole pantry, hoping to keep my cereals and crackers more crisp.

My thought is that my new pantry is just too air tight. The door on the old pantry barely closed, it always had ventilation.

I'm hoping maybe the air conditioning company can help me.


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RE: I have a pantry suggestion... Ventilate!

what's causing the odors? I guess I figure my pantry is for dry, packaged goods, which I doubt will create problems. Fruits and meats go in the refrigerator a fruit bowl. Breads in a bread box. Certainly no longer term storage.


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RE: I have a pantry suggestion... Ventilate!

I have a feeling you're right about making it too airtight. Is it on an outside wall, by any chance?

We added a large walk-in closet in our reno and the HVAC guy advised putting a vent in there. I'm glad we listened.


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RE: I have a pantry suggestion... Ventilate!

food themselves can give off odors. After all, they are in a constant state of decay; we just usually eat them before it's at all noticeable.

Even crackers can do so.

Ditto plastic bags, dogfood, etc.

Plus, w/ new construction, there may be off-gassing issues that hadn't occurred before.


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Natal, you were smart...

Natal, I think you are right and I wish someone would have picked up on this when we were working on the remodel. It is not on an outside wall, it backs up to the garage.

I do not store potatoes, vegetables, breads, fruits, etc., in my pantry.

It gives a bowl of cereal a musty, stale taste... Even a new box of cereal.

I not only had the pantry insulated, but then added a good quality beadboard on the walls!!

SharB


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RE: I have a pantry suggestion... Ventilate!

Our old bungalow had the floor of one cabinet vented (punched-metal screen) to the crawl space to keep it cooler than the house, and the upper panel of the under-sink cabinet had the same screen to help it stay dry. They both worked nicely, and I seriously considered venting a drawer to our current unheated basement, something we can do if we ever feel we need to. Shar, if you don't run your cars in the garage and don't heat it, venting your pantry to it might be a nice passive and green solution to your problemm.

BTW, we grouped most central switches for three levels by the juncture of the stairs up and down in the dining room--Grand Central for the house. It's not the most beautiful thing in the world, and not what I wanted in a public room, but I was forced to it belatedly by imagining just where we were going to be traipsing to find them if they weren't there. Thank goodness I tried that walking around in that imaginary already-moved-in thing when the framing went up; the little side hall by the front door where I wanted to hide part of them would have been horrible. My husband and son were the electricians and there was some grumbling at running extra wire over to the stairs and then trying to stuff it all between one set of studs, but they did it.


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RE: I have a pantry suggestion... Ventilate!

Thanks for posting this - we are planning a large pantry and I never thought about adding ventilation there.

I do have an idea for your light switch problem: look into the Insteon switches/dimmers available from www.smarthome.com. I am using them in my current home, and they can give you complete control of multiple lights (including preprogrammed "scenes") from a single location using the "KeypadLinc". Wiring them is no different than a standard switch/dimmer. Works great for me....


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RE: I have a pantry suggestion... Ventilate!

Above it says, "if you don't run your cars in the garage and don't heat it, venting your pantry to it might be a nice passive and green solution to your problem," which sounds like a great idea, but is against building codes everywhere I've heard.

Most places, if it's really a garage, even if you're not currently using it for cars, you aren't allowed to have an opening between it and the house. The exception is a two-hour fire door (one which will keep back fire for two hours). It's something you'd have to fix if you ever sold the house. If everyone forgets and it's not noticed it could lead to tragedy.

BTW, I've gotten similar staling with sealed crackers and pasta stored on my countertop in a big, airy kitchen (currently lacking cupboards). I don't know why so I'm eager to hear if you find a cure :)


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RE: I have a pantry suggestion... Ventilate!

This post makes me glad that I've decided to keep a window in the plan for my pantry. I considered removing it to gain more storage. Thanks for the post.


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RE: I have a pantry suggestion... Ventilate!

Is there any paint, stain or varnish inside the pantry? When we painted our cabinet shelves, I had to throw out all my cereals, crackers, etc. because they picked up the taste. I lined the shelves with crumpled newspaper and left the doors open to air out and that did the trick (sorry, don't remember how long I left the newspapers in there, 5-6 days?) -- my crackers and soup were fine after that.


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RE: I have a pantry suggestion... Ventilate!

Yes I read that the pantry AND the Walk in Closet should be ventilated.
If a Walk in pantry is open, no door. Do you think It still needs Ventilation?


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Photo of my pantry.

Here is a photo of my pantry. It was completed almost a year ago. Yes, it was painted, but we didn't put anything in it for maybe a month after it was painted.
Image and video hosting by TinyPic

I have more items in the pantry than did when this photo was taken, but it is just more of the same stuff.

I think it is just a musty, stale smell from lack of air circulation.


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RE: I have a pantry suggestion... Ventilate!

If you put an ac vent in there you need a return path of some sort too for the air to circulate. How much of a gap do you have under the door. It might be enough if not shaving some off the bottom of the door shouldn't be too bad. The AC should help with humidity.

As for the smell. Do you by any chance have shelves or anything in there made of MDF or particle board. For some reason those materials tend to soak in smells more than wood. However wood will too to some extent. Paint should seal, but with MDF and particle board I've had the experience that it still picked up smells.


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RE: I have a pantry suggestion... Ventilate!

I put in swinging "saloon" doors to the pantry- no odor problems, and I keep rearely used serving pieces on the high shelves.


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RE: I have a pantry suggestion... Ventilate!

Pllog, I was the clever "garage" person. Good point about fire codes, and good for pointing it out. As an alternative to venting to a nice cool basement it seemed questionable anyway but I was carried away with looking for a nice passive method.


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RE: I have a pantry suggestion... Ventilate!

Really interesting about the pantry. Our house which was built in 1924 had a pantry with ventilation screens on the top and bottom. I never really understood why until this post!

Our electrician did include a wall with switches (upon entering from the outside driveway) that covered all bases. We do have switches in several other areas that handle one or two areas alone, but I do think it was well planned to have that one wall cover everything.


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RE: I have a pantry suggestion... Ventilate!

Sharb, that has to be the classiest pantry I've ever seen ... crown, corbels, AND a chandelier, lol! Good job!!!


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RE: I have a pantry suggestion... Ventilate!

Natal, thank you very much. I love my pantry, other than the smell.

Julier1234, I'm wondering if just putting two ventilation screens in my pantry would work?

Isn't it too bad that we don't think about some of these problems while the job is being done. It would have been so easy to put in screens during the construction.

Thanks all for the suggestions.


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RE: I have a pantry suggestion... Ventilate!

Sharb, have you tried placing some charcoal in there to absorb the odors? Just a few briquettes in a bowl might do the trick.


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RE: I have a pantry suggestion... Ventilate!

I wonder if some modification of the door could be done to let air pass through when the door is closed.

Ventilation is particularly important when the pantry has appliances in it. Ours has a chest freezer and we always leave the sliding door ajar. Ours is in a secondary hallway so we don't mind leaving it open. We have thought about replacing the door with a louvered slider or putting a grill in the existing door near the top and bottom. But it isn't very high on the priority list since leaving the door ajar works.


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RE: I have a pantry suggestion... Ventilate!

Natal, I will definitely try the charcoal. That would be an easy fix.

Cloud, I don't think I can modify the door. I love the glass in the door and to do anyting different would mean a new door.

If the charcoal doesn't work, I will look into the venting. (I do keep the door open quite often.)

SharB

Image and video hosting by TinyPic


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RE: I have a pantry suggestion... Ventilate!

Sharb,

I love your shelving for your pantry--are you liking it? Do you mind posting where you bought it and how deep the shelves are?


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RE: I have a pantry suggestion... Ventilate!

Sharb, any luck with fixing your odor/taste problem?

We will be putting in a corner walk-in pantry soon and I would love to know how to fix it early on...Thanks!

BTW...I showed DH your pantry a while ago and told him THIS is what I want my pantry to look like! (Except the door...I need a door that will hide clutter 'cause I know my family and it will be cluttered eventually!)

Is your door 24" wide?

TIA


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RE: I have a pantry suggestion... Ventilate!

I'd suggest getting airtight storage containers for your dry goods to keep the odors out and to keep them fresher. I use the Tupperware Modular Mates and they work amazingly well. With the labels you can get for them, it makes finding things really easy, too. I also like how quick it is to check what I am getting low on when I'm making my grocery list.


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RE: I have a pantry suggestion... Ventilate!

I read somewhere that scattering (unused) tea bags around can help with off-gassing.


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RE: I have a pantry suggestion... Ventilate!

This is such a practical suggestion! I wish I had thought of this. Our pantry will be a butler's pantry of sorts with microwave, small sink, toaster oven, countertop work space, etc. Now I'm worried about heat and odor building up in there :(


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RE: I have a pantry suggestion... Ventilate!

Sharb: what is the paint color on your beadboard (and is it the same color on the kitchen walls?). I love it! I'm looking for a soft, soothing yellow...

My 1929 kitchen has a "cooler cabinet" with vents in the back (it is on an outside wall). But previous owners sealed the back--to stop drafts I guess. I hope to reopen it someday.

Francy


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RE: I have a pantry suggestion... Ventilate!

Nancy, My shelving was made by the carpenter. Just decide depth of shelving and add corbels and a moulding piece at the edge. Makes it look more permanent than just plain shelving. Most of the shelves are 12" and the bottom shelf is 14". The sizes are working fine for me. I don't think I would change it in any way.

Buehl, I love the glass in my pantry door. When planning my kitchen, I told the KD that my pantry would end up messy. Her comment was "It's a pantry, let it look like a pantry".. So, I went with the glass in the door. It is antique glass, so is not perfectly clear. When I turn the light off, you really don't see that much in there.. But, I do like the light on.

I've never heard of the tea bag solution before..

Pegkip, if you are going to put a microwave and toaster in your pantry, I would definitly ventilate. I keep my toaster in my pantry and we use it maybe 2 or 3 times a week, but I notice the smell lingers for a long time after. If my children were still home and it was being used more often, I would have to keep the toaster in the kitchen.

Bayareafrancy, the paint color on the walls of the pantry is Desert Tan by Benjamin Moore. If you look it up on the BM website, it does not look yellow at all, but in person is quite yellow. I used Rich Cream on the kitchen walls and wanted a little more color in the pantry. The rich cream is quite yellow also, which can be a surprise... It doesn't look that yellow on the card. It worked well with my cabinets and I couldn't decide on a contrasting color, but I can see myself changing the wall color in the kitchen in the future when I think of a contrasting color that would look good with the cabinets. It was just too big of a decision for me at the time, so I went "safe". Also, if I change the kitchen color, that means the LR, hall, upstairs, etc., etc., woule be changed too.

I love my pantry and the only thing I would do different, if I could, is make it bigger. But, I can't. I store my large pots and kitchen appliances in there, which take up quite a bit of space.

SharB


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RE: I have a pantry suggestion... Ventilate!

What about changing your door--top half glass, bottom half louvered? Then you'd see the chandelier and the beadboard but also have some ventilation at the bottom.


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RE: I have a pantry suggestion... Ventilate!

The door to my walk-in pantry has a very large decorative mesh panel in the center. Looks like this, but the openings are a little smaller. I can put a linen panel behind it if I don't want to see through it.

It allows air circulation into the pantry. I haven't noticed any issues with odor building up (but then my kids are in and out of the pantry a million times a day!).

Here is a link that might be useful: mesh


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RE: I have a pantry suggestion... Ventilate!

Maydl and Sharon,
If I were starting over, I would definitely do something like the mesh, what a great idea. My door is 24" wide, was special order, took awhile to get what I wanted, had to special order the glass, etc. I am hesitant to give up on it until I have tried other remedies for the ventilation.

I am very sensitive (allergic) to many smells. I've been sick since October and completely lost my voice. The doctors are not sure what is going on, but one idea is allergies. I worry that it is one of the new materials used in my house.. Such as the hardwood floors. Hardwood is supposed to be a remedy to allergies, but the day the new wood was delivered I knew it was a problem, but thought the finishes would take care of it. I'm fine at night, in the bedroom with the door closed. The bedroom has the old carpet... With being sick, I haven't spent time on fixing the pantry problem.

SharB


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pantry issues

I'm so sorry to hear you've been having allergy issues. Ugh. The wood itself was bothering you? I wonder if there could be mold on some of the wood. Such a shame!

My contractor made my door for me--where your door has the glass and wood rails, mine has all mesh. If worse came to worse, you could remove just a few glass panels, like some others have said. this way you wouldn't lose all your glass.

I hope you figure out the source of your illness very soon!


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RE: I have a pantry suggestion... Ventilate!

I agree with sharon. The bottom two glass panels could be replaced with something attractive but ventilated--maybe even lace, if that goes with your decor. You'd end up seeing all the pretty stuff, but not the bottom shelf or the floor.

Hope you feel better soon.


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RE: I have a pantry suggestion... Ventilate!

We have radiant heat and we did not put any coils in the pantry area so it stays very cool in our walk in pantry and I think that keeps the odors down. However I do keep cereals in a cupboard in the kitchen.


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RE: I have a pantry suggestion... Ventilate!

I think it would help if the pantry was cool. We live in So. Cal. and my pantry is never cool.. That may contribute to the problem.

It had not dawned on me to replace one of the lower glass panels with something, like the decorative mesh. That is a great idea. I was thinking I would have to replace the whole door..

Thanks for the get well wishes.

SharB


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RE: I have a pantry suggestion... Ventilate!

SharB, some woods do cause respiratory and/or dermatitis issues. I don't know if hickory or pecan are one of these, but it might be something to investigate. These problems may only be generated when installing or finishing (dust), I don't know if there are longer-lasting issues as well. Unfortunately, I don't know more than just the fact that some woods are a problem. I found some info on one site, but unfortunately your wood was not listed.

Does your allergist have any information on the various wood species and allergies?

I hope you find out what's causing your problems soon!

Here is a link that might be useful: List of all Wood Flooring International species


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RE: I have a pantry suggestion... Ventilate!

If replacing a glass panel in the door with a grill doesn't work for you, it looks like it might be possible to put a vent in the side wall to the left of the door.


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RE: I have a pantry suggestion... Ventilate!

"I am very sensitive (allergic) to many smells. I've been sick since October and completely lost my voice. The doctors are not sure what is going on, but one idea is allergies. I worry that it is one of the new materials used in my house.. Such as the hardwood floors."

Sharb, Sounds like off gassing. After we moved into our new house (with all hardwoods, not a single piece of carpet) I had a sore throat and stuffy nose (and sometimes a headache) every minute I was in the house (and worse upon wakening in the morning) for probably six months. It was the off gassing of the floor finish, the cabinets, etc. It went away eventually. Others on "Building a Home" had the same issue.


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Thank you..

Thanks to eveyone for your suggestions.

Especially a thank you to Sue36. It's good to hear that someone else had something like this and it eventually goes away. I too am very sensitive to smells. This seemed to get worse when we turned off our air conditioning.


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RE: I have a pantry suggestion... Ventilate!

Our pantry is much wider...there has never been an odor from day one (new construction, which also would have had off-gassing)

I'm wondering if size might be the problem, as the top of our basement stairway did have a stale odor for quite some time....just in the top area where six steps lead down to a landing, then a left turn down to the basement (the basement has zero odor..and is finished).
The stairway area is an enlcosed space, right off of the kitchen...I always thought that food smells were somehow getting trapped in that area...creating the ever present stale odor...
I solved it by putting two boxes of baking soda in the area...one right inside the door..one on the landing for a few months.
No smell since...hope this also works for you.


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RE: I have a pantry suggestion... Ventilate!

Bumping ... to keep this from dropping off the forum.


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RE: I have a pantry suggestion... Ventilate!

bump again to keep from dropping off


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RE: I have a pantry suggestion... Ventilate!

Beautiful Pantry! Our granddaughter would love being in there playing 'store'.
You all have such great input. Your experiences help bring clarity to what I really want versus what others think I should want!
Thank you!


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RE: I have a pantry suggestion... Ventilate!

I suppose all the original contributors have moved on, but this is very interesting to me.

My kitchen renovation is about to be finished (one more week, I hope). As part of the project we enclosed my open pantry to give it more shelf space and a door so I could close it off (no way it's going to look like Sharb's pantry!) . Funny thing is, even though we hired a GC to do the work and a kitchen designer, I'm the only one that seemed concerned about ventilation. The original pantry was about 6' X 4' with an open doorway on one end and a pair of louvered doors on the other (a pass-thru into the living room!). We removed the louvered doors and closed off that wall and are installing a door on the open end. I'm the one who said - "maybe the louver doors were there for ventilation" and suggested we might need a louvered door. KD was going to go with a regular wood door. My DH agreed and the Project manager seemed fine with it. I mentioned ventilation and everyone was like "oh, yeah, good idea". Maybe I have the wrong company doing my kitchen...


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RE: I have a pantry suggestion... Ventilate!

Bump for interest!


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RE: I have a pantry suggestion... Ventilate!

Sharb your pantry is beautiful. This is very good advice for those doing construction.

Does anyone know why kitchen cabinets would not have this same problem? I'm planning on putting pantry shelves in a nearby closet. Has anyone else used a regular closet like this without problems?


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RE: I have a pantry suggestion... Ventilate!

bumping this up to see if anyone from the original post can share a follow-up.

We have a 9'x9'10" pantry in our new house. It doesn't have any ventilation, but I will be bringing it up with our GC tomorrow. We will have a freezer and appliance shelf in there as well. We are using all no and low VOC woods and supplies, so off-gassing from construction materials should be an non-issue. I also keep all my bulk foods in sealed containers (glass and non-BPA plastic), so that should help as well.

Still, I'd like to hear what other possible long term issues and solutions others have had.


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RE: I have a pantry suggestion... Ventilate!

I'm also having pantry odor issues. We are thinking it is coming from our Tupperware that I've had from the 1970 - 1980 era. We first noticed it from crackers that were stored in the Tupperware cracker storage container, we set it outside (in the winter) to "air it out", but the smell never did go away, so we pitched the container. Later other packaged foods started picking the odor. The smell doesn't get into all packaged foods, just certain ones. A couple of weeks ago I took all food that wasn't in cans out and put it in cupboards. Before we suspected the Tupperware I took the rest of my Tupperware out of the cabinet and stuck it in the pantry. Put the food in the cabinets and a few days ago I discovered that some of the food I'd put in cabinet (where the Tupperware had been) was now permeated with the smell! I do have a newer Tupperware bread container that seems to be fine. The pantry is small and the door only 18" wide, so we are probably going to have to buy a set of louvred doors and only use one section, unless someone has a better idea! Right now I have bowls of charcoal and boxes of baking soda in the pantry and on the shelves of the one cabinet. The food is in a NEW plastic tub under the kitchen table.

We aren't sure if it's the paint, the older Tupperware or something else. Would welcome any advice, with food prices on the rise I don't want to throw any more of it out!


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RE: I have a pantry suggestion... Ventilate!

This the reason I am so obsessed w/being on Gardenweb EVERYDAY. I learn such valuable things from you all, that I would have never have thought about!Interesting comments about
off-gassing and wood dust !

Sharb, I am sorry you are having respiratory/allergy problems. I hope you are well again soon. Your pantry is fabulous and I would love to see how you decide to ventilate. I like that mesh idea for the bottom - that would look really good too.
Best.


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RE: I have a pantry suggestion... Ventilate!

What a great thread! I did a search for gardenweb pantry light and now I realize I need to think about ventilation! Just in time before making more build decisions. Maybe I will use folding louvered doors for my pantry--can fold out of the way most of the time but allow ventilation when I close them. Still have to decide on a light style...preferably something unbreakable since we plan to store coolers on the top shelves.


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RE: I have a pantry suggestion... Ventilate!

As a cabinet maker, this is a first I have ever heard of such a thing.

My best guess, without being there in front of the pantry, would be that it has something to do with the interior finishes or the plywood used for the case.

Almost all of my sheet goods for the cabinet comes pre-finished from the mill with a conversion varnish over veneer core Maple that has a soy based adhesive. A very green product with zero formaldehyde and off-gassing.

The veneer is Maple, but the core is Poplar. Other parts of the country get a different core with the exact product I get. Mid-west gets an aspen core, west coast gets a doug fir core. I have had the pleasure on one job where I used the fir core and the smell was much different than I was used to. Definitely a different smell.

Once the cabinet gets assembled and the doors are on, one can definitely smell a little bit of the wood core for a day or two. After that, I have not ever noticed anything.

If you have cabinetry that is particle board core or MDF core, then it definitely puts off more smell to it.

And to really throw a wrench into it, if you have cabinetry that the manufacturer used panels from outside the US (think China), I would be highly suspect of what it off-gassing in that cabinet.

I have a site visit to a kitchen I did 2 years ago tomorrow, I will make sure I ask her if she has had any issues with confinement smells. I opened a few of the pantry doors and didn't smell a thing, so I never thought much of it.

I would think that there is a possibility that the finish might have something to do with it as well. If the panels were not sealed properly, the odors most definitely can seep through the finish.


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RE: I have a pantry suggestion... Ventilate!

Interesting - our old pantry is our new pantry but the big difference is the HVAC doesn't go upstairs near the pantry anymore - so the pantry is considerably cooler than in the past - I can now store onions and potatoes in the dark pantry without them growing or smelling in a week or 2. I just have to check them episodically...

I also used to have a regular door - but now have a pocket door which probably is not as air tight.

The think I like the most - a motion sensor light!


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RE: I have a pantry suggestion... Ventilate!

Thank you so much for posting this sharb! I am planning on building a walk-in pantry into my new kitchen and am grateful for this information.

Can you pls share the dimensions of your pantry?
Is this your main storage area or do you also have alot of cabinets?


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RE: I have a pantry suggestion... Ventilate!

I can not imagine your problem. I have a big bad non walk-in pantry, and there is nothing! It's so full, I get on my knees to see what's in there.

Something else is wrong. Mine is a simple big cabinet full of stuff, but it doesn't smell!

Yours is new? And it smells?

Something dead is probably stuck between the studs.

Good luck!

Suzi


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RE: I have a pantry suggestion... Ventilate!

Original poster sent email. I get it. This is NOT a pantry! It's a sub kitchen, and if there is a chandelier, a toaster, and any other kind of appliance with no ventilation, yep! It will smell.

Most of us just have food pantries. We store boxed and canned goods there, and we have no running appliances.

A pantry doesn't need ventilation unless you put electrical or gas stuff in there, and why would you do that?

Suzi


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RE: I have a pantry suggestion... Ventilate!

It's not new--SharB's pantry is over 5 years old. :)


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RE: I have a pantry suggestion... Ventilate!

Built my pantry 27 years ago with three 1-1/2" screened holes through the floor near the back. We have a raised foundation floor, so the small amount of fresh air that enters is just enough to keep things cool and fresh.


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RE: I have a pantry suggestion... Ventilate!

I get it.

Nope.


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RE: I have a pantry suggestion... Ventilate!

So much information ~ so interesting!

Bumping ... to keep this from dropping off the forum.


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RE: I have a pantry suggestion... Ventilate!

Did she ever get the problem cleared up?

This is a good thread to have bumped up. Ventilation is something to think about. i've seen several pantries on here with windows - maybe that's why.

My pantry is 4' wide x about 22" deep and as of now it's doorless. I had the sliding doors removed and planned to replace them with some decent doors. Haven't done that yet but I'm sure nothing I have put on will make it air tight anyway.

I like the idea of the punched tin in the doors tho and will keep that in mind when replacing the doors.

I have had a problem with crackers in a plastic cracker container - I think it is a lock'n lock brand. My sister also had crackers go back at her house and they weren't in a LL container, so I'm thinking more it was the waxed paper sleeves they were in. The crackers were old anyway - probably a year or close to it. I'm buying smaller boxes these days since I just don't go thru them like I did in years past.

I think I'll pull that container out again and put a 'sleeve' of crackers in it and see how it is in a few months.


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