I also wanted to say I know its not large but is it functional? I am not sure how we could make it any larger. We wanted to keep the house under 2000 sq feet and it is 2170.
We are also on a budget so I know the larger it is the more cabinets/$

Overall I like it but I wonder if the layout is ok? Our current tiny kitchen is open to the living room and I like that. I like that the sink faces the living room so I can watch tv as I'm doing dishes. See the kids at the table as I'm cooking.

Here are a few photos of the model to give you a better idea

how do you add more than one photo?

another

We would also have 9 ft ceilings. These are 8 feet so I think I could get taller cabinets on the side with the stove?

It's pretty bad, actually. Everyone comes right through the prep space to access the fridge. The prep space is right on top of the cleanup zone, so you can't have two people working in there at all. It's barely a one cook kitchen, and then only if you erect razor wire to keep people out while you are in there. It can probably be made better by getting rid of those awkward angles that eat up space and cost you usefullness. But, it will depend on where that sidewall and post might be. You'd need an actual overhead layout with dimensions to be able to do any tweaks.

The overhead layout with dimensions is in the first post. Wouldn't you want the prep space by the cleanup zone? So as your washing veggies you can go right to chopping them? Couldn't one person be prepping to the left of the sink and one to the right? I'm just trying to understand so I get a better idea. I thought about making it a square island to face out to the living room but it just seemed off center.

Sorry but I agree with greendesigns. Keep in mind that most stock home plans have terrible kitchen designs.

Have you read the new to kitchens thread? Not the sticky note but the one posted by buehl? I attached the link. There is so much info there it will take some time to read but well worth your time.

Here is a link that might be useful: new to kitchens

It's a cute layout, but one thing that's not good is the builder moved the dishwasher from the original layout. See how you'd bump your leg, when you open the dishwasher...if you're standing in front of the sink? And even if you moved it to the plan area, you would likely end up with dirty dishes in your main prep area.

I've walked through similar kitchens (when looking for my mom's home) and they seem great, until you start thinking about cooking. Hot pasta from the stove to the sink, dodging kids wanting to grab something to drink from the dining area. Cutting up veggies on the counter, while someone is trying to do dishes and dumping soap (or worse) on your veggies in the other sink. This might not happen, but if you have 'help' it can...

I think this kitchen would work in an existing home, but since you're building a new one, why not make it as pleasant and functional as possible? Have you considered making the fridge, range and sink dishwasher into an L-shape? You would still stand at the sink and look at the dining room, but you'd have continuous counter top from the sink to the range.

Then, you could add an island (with prep sink?) opposite the range/fridge wall and have a great place for stools on two sides. This would give you informal seating for visitors as well as 'helpers' and still keep people out of your main work area. The peninsula would encourage people to go around the island to access pantry and fridge.....hopefully :)

The kitchen has pretty marginal working counter space despite being not-tiny. The fridge, for instance, isn't particularly close to the sink, and many things need a pit-stop at the sink before crossing over to the stove for cooking. You'll be doing a lot of walking in the kitchen design.

There aren't too many fans here for diagonallly-placed sinks since that makes opening the DW while at the sink a PITA. Even having it slightly away from the sink, as shown, creates problems since that means there's more chance for drips going from one to the other. If most of the people in your family are right handed, the DW should be to the left of the sink. Maybe you're all lefties?

Some people don't like to have the sink mess so visible to counter- sitters, even if the raised bar does screen the mess from other parts of the living space.

The pantry is well-placed, but dinky compared to the space alloted to the laundry.

And to my eye, a kitchen w/o any windows is a sad affair. Sometimes it's the only solution, but it isn't optimal. When working in the kitchen you are 15-20 feet from the nearest window.

And speaking of windows, have you considered the front facade?

The fenestration pattern is not well-balanced across the front despite the strong rhythmic pattern of the porch's supporting columns.

Plus you're wasting all those windows on service spaces, not public rooms (while the other areas are starved for light.)

You've got a first-floor, front porch window over a toilet. Windows over toilets usually are heavily blocaded because users don't like to be seen around a toilet. The W/D have an out-of-pattern double window over them. In a service room there's no benefit to the added cost of a double window and I would only have one to complete a pattern established eleswhere. And your walk-in closet, which should be dark to avoid risk of fading clothes has nearly as many windows as your bedroom and the same number as you have in your much larger living room. Front facade, first floor windows are very strong design elements and having them scattered willy-nilly and devoted to service rooms is a huge waste of potential.

And notwithstanding the fact that even your toilet has a window of its own, your huge combined kitchen, living room, dining room space - some would argue the most important space in your whole house - is inserted so deep within the mass of the house you will have dark rooms needing a great deal of artificial light every day, all day.

If you haven't yet committed to this plan may I suggest a resource? The book, A Pattern Language by Christopher Alexander is extremely useful in describing what makes houses really work well and be exceptionally nice spaces to live in. Your public library can get you a copy, or you can order one on-line. It offers insights into space planning issues from community-sized problems down to plannng a sleeping room. No glossy pictures, just well-researched and described principles of best-for-human use design.

Aside from the window issue the main problem with this house plan is that it is driven by the currrent fad for combining all public rooms into one cavernous interior space. Although I am definitely in the minority, I think these up-scaled, peasant-hovel designs will become dated when the realities of living in them become more well known. Humans once lived in undivided spaces, but they invented walls for very well-founded reasons.

Finally, I don't know where you live, but having a double-height living room will add considerably to your heating costs. The double-height rooms add a lot of the cost of the building because you are forgoing valuable interior sq. footage. Have you looked at a model with this feature in exactly the same proportions? Where you have open spaces with differing ceiling heights it can make the lower-height ones feel kind of compressed, sort of squashed-down in comparison -especially when the height differential is so dramatic, almost 2 to 1 - even if the lower-ceilinged spaces would otherwise be fine height-wise.

HTH

L.

We have looked at layouts for over 6 months. I have looked on Frank Betz and Don Gardener as well as my builders website. They all have something wrong with them. I am about at my wits end.

We want to keep the house as close to 2000 sq feet as possible. I need 3 bedrooms and 2 1/2 baths. I don't need a dining room but if there is one its fine. I want a separate laundry room with a mudroom that I don't have to walk over from the garage. I actually want the laundry away from the bedrooms so I don't hear the dryer going at night if I throw a load in before bed. I don't feel like its asking for a lot but it so hard to find a good layout that has windows were I want them and no windows in the closets. I'm about to give up.

L wouldn't you want the dishwasher to your right? I cant imagine rinsing a dish and putting it to my left (I am right handed). So I think I would like it to the right of the sink.

I thought a good design was to have everything in a triangle?? Stove, sink, fridge.

L we are not building the living room with 17ft ceilings. It will be 9 feet with a bonus room above.
Would the kitchen be better in a G shape? with only one way into the kitchen?

Agree with the assessment that this is a poor plan.

When you're sorting through other people's idea of a round peg to fit into your square hole, you're imprisoned by their ideas of "round", which could be an ellipse, or even star shaped. And it never approaches a square peg for that square hole. A good architect can actually save you money and frustration by designing something that suits your lot, your family, and your use pattern. Find someone local whom you click with and get them to design that square peg for that square hole.

RE dishwasher placement - Rest assured that you will quickly get used to dishwasher to left or right of sink. As others have noted, the most important considerations for dishwasher placement are:
1) Doesn't interfere with primary prep (space between prep sink & range).
2) Doesn't interfere with traffic.
3) Within a step of glasswear and plate storage to facilitate unloading.

Gingerjenny-you've already gotten such insightful information about this kitchen plan. All I could add is that in the home I grew up in, the sink was across the kitchen from the stove. I happened to come running through one day as my mom was crossing the kitchen with a pot of boiling hot water headed for the sink , I ran into her and she accidentally spilled it down my arm. Of course she was devistated that she had burned me and my dad moved the stove that weekend. I always cringe when I see kitchen plans like that. To me that is a serious safety issue especially with kids in the house. Good luck in your search for the perfect plan for your family. I am sure you will find it.

GingerJenny,

Here's why a right-handed person needs the DW on the left:

Righties do their manipulation with their dominant hand while holding the item in their left. Think about how you scrape a dish - which hand holds it and which hand has the scraper?

If the DW is on the left the item can just be slotted in without having to change the item from one hand to another.

if you need to move something already in the DW to make room for the new dish, you will do the moving and fitting with your dominant hand while holding the waiting item in your other hand.

If the DW is on your right you have to keep switching the items from hand to hand or twist across your body to slot them in.

When I first read this, I thought it was wrong. But I had my DH videotape me while I washed dishes and put them in the drainer (I don't use a DW). And sure enough, if the drainer is on the left, it's much more efficient . It works the same way when loading a DW.

It's true you will get used to what ever you have, but why not have it on the best side from the ergonomic point of view?

The work triangle for a kitchen is still a good idea, but modern kitchen shapes have changed the rules. Since your kitchen has a major circulation aisle running through it the triangle becomes a problem. A more modern planning tool is to think in terms of work zones.

This particular house plan is really cave-like. It wastes precious exterior walls on service areas. And because the garage eats up so much space against the living area you have very few windows. A better design would be to have one where the garage's shortest wall is the common one with the house.

I agree with you about the placement of the laundry. I have mine far away from the bedrooms, mostly because I like to be able to carry my laundry out to hang it on the line.

HTH

L.

I have had this kitchen layout (and pretty close home plan) in the past. I agree with others here. Having the stove this far away and across from the sink means you are CONSTANTLY walking back and forth with hot stuff...collision potential is pretty high.

The other thing that I didn't see mentioned was I did not like having the kitchen open up to the living room. I couldn't wash dishes without interrupting the person in the living room, nor could I just "leave" dishes and enjoy the party because the smell of the dishes wafted over everyone :(

I raised 3 kids with a pass-through galley kitchen where fridge and stove were on one wall, sink on the opposite wall...never had collisions or accidents taking hot stuff from stove to sink....never even thought about it. Also, i am a leftie and have lived for 30 years with DW on the right.....and the sink/DW area is also the prep area...not a big deal....you finish all the prepping then open the DW for cleanup. Isn't that how most people work? I used to hate my galley which I considered way too small for the size of the house, but I am appreciating it more after being in houses with islands that to me are just barriers you have to walk around. Am also happy Lirio mentioned the possible demise of open-concept. I also used to lament my house with it's individual "boxes" but also appreciate the "closed-off" house more after being in houses where the guys are trying to watch the game and the women are chatting and both groups are telling each other to keep it down as the sound on the TV goes up, up, up. Yes, I would probably change a few things if I were building a kitchen today--like not having my fridge against a wall and making it a little bigger with more counter space, but even if the OP left the kitchen as is and moved in, she would get used to it in no time. To me the center aisle looks wide enough to have a few people in there at the same time. Someone COULD be at the sink doing dishes, while someone else is a few feet over prepping, while a 3rd person is grabbing something from the fridge they accessed from either entryway. I don't think the plan is THAT bad. And everyone's idea of the perfect kitchen/house layout is different.

Sure, you can get used to almost any bad design because humans are adaptable creatures. We'll "make do". In a new build though, there is absolutely NO reason to "settle" for a bad kitchen layout. Make no mistake, the kitchen shown is a bad layout. Several people can NOT work in that kitchen at the same time if built as shown. It's not set up for it.

Today's kitchen doesn't have a single cook shut away from the action like a scullery maid. It needs to work well for multiple people performing different tasks at once. Putting your prep space on top of the DW means you work alone, and in a series of sequential tasks rather than in partnership and simultaneous tasking mode. It's 1950's thinking applied to a 2013 kitchen, with zero benefit of the many time motion studies and ergonomic principles that guide today's (good) kitchen layouts. The fact that you see so many awful kitchens in builder's plans just means that builders care more about how something looks than how it works.

Holly and Green---I love learning from you and the other KD's on here! We always see on this site kitchen plans people post then everyone chimes in on how it should be swtichted around...which is great...but it seems like no one ends up with the perfect kitchen.

My question is....what would an absolute perfect kitchen look like from the KD's perspective? Can you post a layout? (Im not talking cabinets, flooring, etccc...just layout).

And, is there really such a thing (beyond the triangle)....since everyone uses their kitchen differently?

Thanks...would really love to see what would be considered the perfect layout.

This is almost exactly what my brother and sis-in-law have in central Michigan, in a one-story so no two level ceiling in the FM. They have 6 kids, and although they don't cook gourmet, they do cook at home and eat at home every day. They have food allergies and special needs, and they live literally in the middle of nowhere, so there aren't a lot of options for eating out.
The kitchen functions for them because there is so much room that whoever is working at the sink is out of the path of those running/walking through to get to refrig. They like the open plan because they're always in family space. With 6 kids if the kitchen were closed off mom would always be separate from the rest of family activities. They do have a finished lower level which accomodates games, football TV, and general rough housing.
I've cooked in that kitchen. It's not optimal. But it works for them and their family. What doesn't work so well for them is that in their house the eating area is too tight. Every single meal they have to pull the big table away from the glass door wall to get everyone around the table. Make sure that your plan allows seating room. It's easy to stage a small table in a model and make it look okay, but check your measurements and clearances.
Having the sink in that curved island, with a high shelf on the outside allows friends or family to sit on the family room side and talk with whomever is working in the kitchen.
Probably not a popular answer here, but figure out what your own family needs are, your own budget restrictions, how much time you spend in the kitchen and what type of cooking you do.
And make sure that however your DW opens it doesn't block that Very Narrow opening into the kitchen space from the table seating area. It's already a traffic jam.

Joanie- Excellent question, but I think we should start a new thread :)

Ginger- Okay, this is just me...but if I really liked this layout and wanted to adapt it to how I cook...this is what I would do.

I'd move the door to the garage into the laundry room and put the microwave where the door is. That would make a little snack area off to one side, by the fridge and pantry.

Then, I'd swap the sink and range (this won't be popular...LOL) so I could see out while I cook. Then I'd put the dishwasher between the sink and fridge with the trash on the other side of the sink, by the table.

Finally, I'd put a prep sink where they show a dishwasher on the plan...to the right of the range. This would give me prep space while I cook and hopefully be large enough to drain some pasta.

As for the range on island...one of those glass hoods would work great and I'd move people to the table, if I planned to fry chicken. Otherwise, I spend a lot more time stirring sauces then I do washing dishes...so I'd rather stand at the stove and be able to prep right there, than have my back to everyone, while I work on the other side of the kitchen.

This would also give you a great place to store all your dishes, without dripping everything from the dishwasher to the upper cabinets :)

This post was edited by lavender_lass on Thu, Oct 31, 13 at 21:11

We're right-handed and our DW is on the right...it's not an issue at all. I've had it both ways and I can honestly say it makes no difference whatsoever which side the DW is on. As GauchoGordo1993 mentioned, you adapt very quickly to whatever side it's on - regardless of "handedness"...and you only have to "adapt" if it's different than what you had before - just like anything else. S/he is also right about what the important things are.

Would you consider swapping kitchen with the DR?

Pantry would be not so near, but you can have a narrow pantry cab in the kitchen. Fridge can be accessible without anyone interrupting you. You can have a closet for coats where you have the fridge in the original layout.

Sena I would consider that actually. I am really discouraged actually. I thought the layout was fine but maybe could use some tweaking and feel like its just trash now.

I originally wanted more of an L shaped kitchen with an island but I didn't see how it could work in this house.

I'm making the laundry room into a mud room so thats where I will hang coats.

I really don't want to enter through the laundry room if it involves walking over baskets. thats one think I liked about the plan was the laundry room was to the side.

Wow, I am really surprised. I think the bones of the layout are quite good!!

I would change the island to be more of a rectangle, possibly doing seating on two sides like oldbattobe's because you have the space for it! That would narrow up the distance between your range and prep area, not give you so much dead floor space, and make a really great island gathering area.

Then I would put the dishwasher on the left side of the island, with most daily dishes behind it to the right of the range for ease of setting the table and ease of after-meal cleanup.

I actually really like that the fridge and pantry are on the same side of the kitchen as each other, and a straight shot from the living area. To me, that's a huge advantage because when fridge and pantry are on opposite sides of your prep zone that's when you get people walking through it all the time. At least that's what I always found! I guess people's mileage vaires. Drove me batty to have DH making a snack and then darting through my prep area for jam for his toast, or cream for his coffee, or mayo for a sandwich. The best thing I ever did was get the fridge and pantry together (and I have some extra plateware and cutlery near the pantry as well).

Theoretically it's true that family might be all sitting at the table while you're prepping, but that doesn't usually happen with me... I plate our meals and we eat together so I'd personally be more concerned about snackers and drink-getters coming from the living room than I would be from the kitchen table. But in the end, only you will best know how the kitchen would function for your family. I just thought I'd put my two cents in to say this kitchen would work pretty well for me with just the change to the island.

Good luck.

Two things caught my eye here. Hanging televisions over fireplaces is not a great idea for three reasons: the heat can be damaging to the components, you're locked into a particular size TV, and - most importantly to me - it's an awful ergonomic set-up: you want TVs to be closer to eye level, rather than needing to incline your neck up. If you planned to put the TV on the long wall without windows, and changed the semi-hexagon sink wall into an L, you could still face the television from one half of the L, but it would eliminate the conflict between shins and dishwasher door. It would also gain you some storage space and would probably be less expensive to build.

Have you tried laying out how you would use the cabinets? I noticed that, on the end closest to the dining room, there's only one solid cabinet; the other one (flanking the range) is glass. Where would you keep your dishes? Consider the location of your dishes relative to your work triangle, the boiling pasta problem, and asking one of your children to set the table. If you can visit the model, walk through prepping, cooking, serving, and cleaning up a typical meal in the ways that you typically prep (mise en place versus as-you-need-it, etc.), and see how it works for you.

This post was edited by Artichokey on Sun, Nov 3, 13 at 9:07

I have friends whose home has a similar kitchen layout and there is lots of room inside it for 3 or 4 of us ladies helping to set-up or clean up when our church fellowship group (20 or so people, including kids) meets there for Bible study and meals. The large snack bar wrapping around the sink area works great to allow lots of people to communicate with the cook, but keep out of her hair. It also doubles as a serving "buffet" of sorts. Also, with the wide sink area, the diagonal relationship to the dishwasher isn't as much a problem as the typical snug, stuck-in-a tight- corner sink/dishwasher.

I like having a sink area like that which can overlook both the dining and family room areas. The refrigerator is a bit far from the dining area, though I can see why it is placed where it is so as not to block the light and view into the dining room (if it was at the other end.)

Please don't swap the kitchen with the dining area---the dining area would have no windows !!!Yikes. It is more acceptable for an open kitchen not to have windows as it is getting lots of borrowed light and view.

As others have said--the window placement and room layout of the overall house is far from ideal, though.
All the windows across the front would have to be small due to the nature of what is underneath them, and none of the regular living spaces has a view to the front. You only have utilitarian- type rooms across the front.( And the windows where you have them in the walk-in closet either limit the rod space or mean you have hangers across the windows!) If your lot size allows, could you rework the plan and put the laundry between the kitchen and garage and let the kitchen have a window to the front? Then you would have a view to both the front yard and the back yard from that space. I do realize that would entail some serious reworking of your plan, however. I am not sure how committed you already are to this overall plan.

I've also seen family rooms like yours with just two small windows on either side of the fireplace and the rooms just seem to "scream" for more light and view. Having a fireplace on the window wall usually works best if the long dimension of the family room is parallel with the window wall, allowing for larger windows. I know that would require serious reworking of your plan (again-sorry) if you changed the orientation of the family room to accommodate more windows, but perhaps it would also solve some of the other issues (if your lot can accommodate a wider overall plan.)You could also move the fireplace to the side wall, but I know that the venting of the fireplace gets more expensive. In either case, make sure you do a furniture layout on your plan before you finalize the family room--you may discover that the size and layout of your kitchen island may need to change in order to best accommodate your family room furniture layout. You may also want to plan an alternative, optional arrangement for that tv in case you decide after awhile that you don't like it above the fireplace. (I hate watching it above the fireplace at my friend's house, but they like it because they are usually standing up in the kitchen watching it. They also have a separate media room---maybe because they wanted a more comfortable arrangement?)
I don't mean to discourage you, but as a former architect, I just want to point out some things for you to consider that you might not have thought about. Good design usually takes countless hours (really, days and days) of thought, trial and error, and "massaging" and tweaking. Don't give up--keep looking around and/or reworking until you get the best plan for the situation, budget, lot constraints, etc. I hope you end up with a plan that you are totally happy with.

(Also, a 4' porch is really tight--if you can possibly add a few feet or more, you will be able to enjoy it so much more!)
HTH.

Been thinking about all these suggestions for a while...still waiting on our current home to sell. Do you think there is enough space to make the current island just a rectangle or a small L design. I think that would solve the dishwasher problem. In my current home the stove is far away from the sink and this doesn't bother me at all. I really don't want to switch floor plans because i cant find anything I like better.