Shop Products
Houzz Logo Print
julie1973_gw

Please help with center island seating/decision to add support

julie1973
9 years ago

Hi! I am about to place my cabinet order and I am waffling over the seating decision for my center island. My layout currently has seating for 4 at the island. 3 on one side and 1 on the end. The island is 72"x38". The overhang on the seating sides is 12". We are a family of 4 and there is also kitchen table that can seat 4. I really wanted 4 seats at the island BUT I also really prefer the look of an island without the overhang at the end for that one seat.nand that's what you see when you walk into the kitchen. So, I am contemplating removing that end seat and only seating 3 at the island. Essentially that would put form over function. The 4 seats at the island would definitely get used, especially when we have company. I can foresee breakfasts where the first ones down in the am are sitting at the island and then the last one down will be stuck at the table. But I SO prefer the look of the finished end of the island without that overhang on the end, and I don't think I can fit legs to give it a more finished look . What do you think - leave it as is, remove the end seat, or add legs/corbels? BTW - the rendering isn't accurate with respect to the lights, direction and color of the floor boards and the direction of the wood planks on the island.

Comments (22)

  • GreenDesigns
    9 years ago

    You need to post dimensions. As posted, it doesn't appear to have the room needed for seating at all. The island also appears to block the main work path in the kitchen as well.

    Will the fridge fit on the end of the sink wall towards the viewer? And then eliminate the cabinetry or make shallower on that wall for more room to sit? The island could then become more table like and function better, if it's one of the primary driving forces of the remodel.

  • julie1973
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    The aisles on either side of the island are 54" so there is enough room to walk around and there is 52" aisle between the range and the end of the island. The island does not extend to where the fridge is - the fridge has the open 52" aisle in front of it - straight shot across to the sink wall.

  • Chris Payne
    9 years ago

    What about making a box around the end seat? "Cascading" the island overhang down so that the sides of that seat area are enclosed? It wouldn't look so much like an island overhang then...

    The sides could be of the same white material as the cabinets, or the wood of the countertop, or something else altogether.

  • julie1973
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Unkinected, thank you. I too am having trouble picturing what you suggest. I think it is going to interfere with the seating at the long end.

    Sjhockeyfan - you like it better without the overhang - would you sacrifice the seat?? Or would you try adding legs and an apron?

  • kksmama
    9 years ago

    I prefer seating on two sides and form over function, so I was all set to say you should keep the end seat...until I saw the picture. Could you reconfigure the island like this?

    [Traditional Kitchen[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/traditional-kitchen-ideas-phbr1-bp~t_709~s_2107) by Falls Church Kitchen & Bath Designers Cameo Kitchens, Inc. or this?

    [Craftsman Kitchen[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/craftsman-kitchen-ideas-phbr1-bp~t_709~s_2116) by Austin Architects & Building Designers Cornerstone Architects

  • sjhockeyfan325
    9 years ago

    I've never had island seating that was used for anything other than "perching", but I think your post about everyone playing "musical chairs" and fighting for the last available seat at the island might lead to some serious discord in your house! I'd try to add legs and maybe an apron.

  • julie1973
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Ok. I think I'm gonna try to add legs! Thanks guys! Kksmama - I like really like those, but it looks like they require an island that is wider than mine, as they both show 2 seats at the end. My kitchen is not wide enough to make the island any wider without losing the entire wall of cabinets including the fridge behind it! Does anyone have an island that is less than 40" wide with legs that they can share a picture of?

  • kksmama
    9 years ago

    Please consider posting dimensions, I think a different island configuration might better suit your family and that giving up some aisle width might be an acceptable trade-off. If you are living in the space now, consider mocking it up with cardboard boxes and tape.

  • julie1973
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Thanks for the suggestion, but I'm afraid we're too far along to change anything. The width of the kitchen is 16'. The aisle dimensions are included in my second post above. Anyway, I think I'm going with legs. Here's the latest drawing. Any glaring issues before I sign off on this? :)

  • Gooster
    9 years ago

    As you know, the problem is not with the short end but with the long end. 72 inches long makes it very tight in the corner where the two stools will share knee space.

    I would suggest planning a larger overhang, like 15 to 18", as 12" is shallow for a counter height. This will also help increase the space in the tight corner. Adding six inches to the length makes the island 78 inches long and provides some "knee space" relief in the tight corner. In addition, taking at least three inches more on the width will help with the "foot/knee" overlap in the corners (even the, the person on the end will have to sit off-centered) while making the main run more comfortable. You have the width on either side to do this.

  • sjhockeyfan325
    9 years ago

    It looks so much better with the legs!

  • julie1973
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Thanks Gooster! That's an easy fix. I'm meeting with the KD on Saturday so I'll discuss this with him. I think the width will be easier to adjust since I don't really want to make it much longer and thus overhang into the "aisle" in front of the patio door. But I could probably add a couple of inches in length without getting in the doorway.

  • julie1973
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    thanks SJhockeyfan! I think so too!

  • kksmama
    9 years ago

    Yes, that looks a lot better. Your aisles are generous and so you could add island width, and maybe still add depth to the sink run by setting the cabinets off the wall. It is going to be a lovely kitchen!

  • isabel98
    9 years ago

    I have this exact arrangement and it works great. the end seat is the fought over seat and there are no issues with shared knee space. having more than 3 stools lined up to an island isn't that functional...it's like a bar. had I been smart I would have put on on the other side of the end stool as well.

  • julie1973
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Thanks isabel98! That helps me because I don't know that I can change anything as I have reached my cabinet budget max and am hoping to,place the order by Monday! I am meeting with the KD tomorrow and they are coming Tuesday to knock down walls!

  • Buehl
    9 years ago

    Just an FYI...if you keep the island dimensions as-is and add legs, you'll be very tight on space for the 3 seats on the long side. You need 24" per seat - possibly a bit more to be able to maneuver in/out of the seats around the legs (you can't use the end "space" to slip into the two end seats b/c the legs will be in the way).

    With a 72" long island, you have just enough room for 3 seats. With legs, you need to either add length to the island equal to the widths of the legs (3" wide?), or reduce seating to 2.

    For the seat on the short end, you should have enough room but be aware that, as someone else mentioned, that seat will be off-center b/c of the overhang - at least when someone is sitting there. If no one is sitting at that seat and the one around the corner, then you can center that end stool (to help with your form over function sensibilities in this case).

    Island depth of 41.5":
    1.5" overhang + 24" deep cabs + 1" decorative panel + 15" overhang

    For cabinets, if the 57" width of cabinets are already ordered and cannot be changed, then you'll have an 18.9" overhang for that seat on the short end - very comfortable for an adult or teenager! The 15" overhang on the long side will be fine for children and anyone under 6'2" or so (speaking from experience!)


    This will reduce your aisle to 51.5" behind the island - which will probably be OK most of the time. The only time it would an issue is if someone is trying to work at the counter behind the island while others are seated along the long end of the aisle.

    If you can do it, I'd move the island closer to the sink wall be 6" (for a 48" aisle) and add those 6" to the back aisle (51.5" + 6" = 57.5").


    One question - are your aisle measurements cabinet-to-cabinet or counter edge-to-counter edge?

    If the aisles are measured cabinet-to-cabinet, then your aisles are actually not as wide as stated. Assuming the standard 1.5" counter overhang in front of the cabinets (protects the drawer fronts & doors as well as the drawer pulls/knobs from spills and bumping), then you need to account for the extra 1.5":

    Sink aisle:
    1.5" overhang in front of sink run + 51" aisle + 1.5" overhang in front of island (aisle width: 54" - 1.5" - 1.5" = 51")

    You then have 3" instead of 6" to add to the back aisle if you can move your island and reduce the sink/island aisle to 48".

    Aisle behind island (MW aisle):
    52.5" aisle + 1.5" overhang in front of counter run with MW. (aisle width: 54" - 1.5" = 52.5)"

    If you add the 3" from the sink aisle, then the aisle b/w the island and the MW run will be 52.5" + 3" = 55.5"


    [Edited for for those annoying typos!]

    This post was edited by buehl on Sat, Oct 4, 14 at 5:36

  • gabytx12
    9 years ago

    Buehl- great layout. We are just trying to configure our island now. Right now we have 78 inches for our island, but I really want a 4th seat, and I do not like the counter seating only, the short end seat would work for us.

    Only question is, hubby is 6'4", so could I make the short end seat more that 15.9 overhang and still use 3" legs, or would it need more support on that end? Will 18" be enough and how with that change the dimensions to the entire countertop.

    thanks,

  • Buehl
    9 years ago

    For a tall person (or someone with long legs), 18" would be MUCH better!

    Note that a 15" overhang for counter-height seating is the minimum recommended by the National Kitchen & Bath Association. If you have anyone taller than average or with long legs, then a deeper overhang is a great idea.

    My DH is 6'5" and finds even a 15" overhang to be too shallow - ditto for my 6'6" son! If I had it to do over, I would have an 18" or maybe even 21" overhang. (We have friends with a 12" overhang and even I find it very uncomfortable to sit at for more than a few minutes at a time - my DH and DS never sit at their counter!)


    Regarding support - consult your designer or fabricator about support. For a general rule of thumb, use the "6 & 10 Rule"

    • For 3cm stone: any overhang > 10" will need a corbel or other support. How much?
      Overhang inches - 10" = # inches for support

    For 2cm stone: any overhang > 6" will need a corbel or other support. How much?
    Overhang inches - 6" = # inches for support
    ....with a corbel or support every 30" of unsupported overhang

    If you don't want corbels or legs, consider the "CounterBalance" system instead.

    Thread: Kevin - 'remember the 6 & 10 rule'

    Thread: granite fabrication questions..what do you think!

  • PRO
    Joseph Corlett, LLC
    9 years ago

    gabytx12:

    The best and most expensive way to accomplish your goals is custom steel fabrication and installation. This requires coordination between possibly your framer, electrician, cabinet installer, steel fabricator/installer, granite fabricator and/or supplier. Everyone has to know what the other guy is planning to do.

  • szruns
    9 years ago

    FWIW, I have three overhang issues on two peninsulas (two kitchens -- one a mini kitchen in the in law suite) and one island, ranging from 15-18 inches deep. For support, we used custom fabricated L brackets that the carpenters installed against the cabinets (in one case inside the cabinet, and in the other two, outside the cabinet as those cabinet backs will be covered in bead board, so they can cover the brackets with the bead board. These are insanely strong brackets. My builder said you could use them to hang a tractor off a wall, lol. They seemed like a simple solution, but not sure where/how they got them fabricated. They are about 10 inches in each dimension (ending about 4 inches from counter edge), about 2 inches wide, and about 1/4 inch thick. No idea on cost. We spray painted them a matching color before installation, but you'll never see them unless you crawl under the overhang. The paint was mostly to make sure the iron didn't rust and rub off on anyone's pants if they were wiggly under there. :)