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teamj_gw

Large Kitchen with Two Islands � Part 2

teamj
10 years ago

This is part 2 of a previous thread:

http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/kitchbath/msg092329583243.html

To recap, Cabinets will be off-white, glazed, shaker door, transitional styling. Countertops will be gray or off white. Ceilings are 12�. Looks are the primary goal for this kitchen, but we do also cook.

I am hoping to finalize my layout and did receive tons of advice on the other thread, however I have firmed up many parameters so I thought a new clean thread would be best.

Many people suggested swapping the range and refrigerator, and/or moving the refrigerator to the pantry, and/or moving the cleanup sink to the exterior wall, however, IMHO, doing these create new issues and tradeoffs, so I have decided that:

1. The range will stay on its current wall, exactly where it is. I have no problem reconfiguring the cabinetry around the fridge, but do want to maintain the symmetrical look
2. The refrigerator will stay on its current wall, but it can move anywhere on this wall
3. Sinks will remain in the island(s)
4. We really like the dual island layout. Doing a L-shaped island is out, we don't like the looks, and a single island would just be too large.

I did incorporate many suggestions in this revised layout:

1. Cleanup sink and dishwashers moved to second island suggested by lisa_a
2. Slightly wider aisles suggested by Susan Serra (tivoli_rose)
3. Reduced depth base cabinets on range wall suggested by sena01
4. Live_wire_oak suggested the original layout wouldn�t for a couple of cooks on a quick meal or a team of caterers, but I think the new layout does define the work zones more clearly, and allow for multiple cooks. Herbflavor also agreed zones needled help.
5. More prep space as suggested by remodelfla and lisa_a
6. Lisa_a suggested we don't have the wall cabinets flanking range go all the way down to counter to counter space and a landing zone for plates going to dining room. We kept them to the counter, but pulled them back each side to give more counter space in that area.
7. Drop microwave to 24" and added prep tool storage suggested by breezygirl


Known Issues:

1. We will still have to traverse aisles from the range. I think we can live with this

2. Construction of second island.

a. Fitting the shelf of the stages sink above the second dishwasher and all into a 33" base. I should be able to cut the sides of the base to fit the large bowl, and lower the dishwasher feet so the shelf can fit above the dishwasher. I did see this on another thread.

b. Building enough structure to support the countertop with only a single base cabinet. I should be able to use a sheet of plywood across the back, connected to panels on the end to make sort of an interior H-beam.

3. Ducks in a row seating, not the best


Specific questions:

1. On the refrigerator wall, We were thinking maintaining the built in look would be best, but then we would have to use 24" deep wall cabinets on the left and right, either leaving nowhere for our blender and toaster oven, or a too deep appliance garage. Not sure what to do on this wall, or with the 2 appliances (They-re used often)

2. Where can we still cooking oils and spices? Maybe some kind of stainless rack on the range wall, but not sure if that will take away from the look of the glass tile.

3. Where to stick cookbooks. I was thinking just in one of the wall cabinets, but we were hoping to have a cubby hole somewhere, but maybe it would just be more messy looking than it would be worth

4. Any cabinet type, size or location changes or cabinet accessories anyone can recommend?

5. Will the 21" deep base cabinets on the range wall look odd?

6. Will diners at the bar have enough depth without their drinks falling in the sink?

7. Do the trash bins look like they are in good locations?

8. Any other thoughts?

Thank you for every comment, every suggestion, every criticism or complement. We truly appreciate everyone here.

Comments (103)

  • _sophiewheeler
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    The ELEPHANT is that you won't swap the range to the other wall to be parallel to the islands so you can USE those islands for workspace. Or else turn the islands to be parallel to the range location that you seem determined to keep. All of the other tweakery doesn't address that major issue that is keeping the entire design from being functional. That prep sink in the corner keeps you in the corner like you've got a time out and are being punished. In that giant kitchen, that's where you're going to be spending 80% of your time. Do you REALLY want to keep your back to everyone like that?

    Your priority seems to be keeping that range wall intact at the price of overall functionality. You need to examine what that is doing to the design. And for what? That's not a view that you will get but infrequently. The main view that you will spend the most time looking at is from across the family room. And since you are so visually focused, that would seem to be the more logical place for the central focus of the kitchen. Why do you feel it should be the secondary focal area?

  • kitchendetective
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Momto4kids used to post here and has a two-island kitchen posted in the Finished Kitchens Blog. She is very happy with her two island setup. Maybe a look at her layout will help. I haven't read your entire thread, so forgive me if this has been mentioned before.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Not sure how much of this is still accessible

  • rococogurl
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I don't entirely agree with holly about placement. But I do feel that an acceptable layout could be worked out.

    However, this kitchen has occupied the better part of two threads now and there is still no functional plan. I don't understand that process. One suggestion gets made and the entire kitchen shifts but with no regard to what will fit or what won't or what will function well or not.

    Likewise, comments/questions intended to be helpful go unresponded to.

    If there is no time limit for actually building this and the goal is to have only what you want regardless of how it will function then proceed apace.

    If the goal is to have a kitchen that multiple posters here who don't know you, don't care what you build, and don't have any stake in this at all except to be good and knowledgeable sounding boards are all saying the kitchen is a hot mess over and over, then the calling is to either decide on your own or actually listen and respond to what folks here are suggesting, one change at a time. Because from the small amount of what I've seen on this thread that's not what's happening.

    Perhaps it might an architect or kitchen designer were engaged to sit down and cut through the gordion knot of the layout, then sign off on it.

    No one can make that decision for you.

  • GreenDesigns
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    The original builder's home plan with the awkward angles was better than the two island version that you seem determined to keep. The" temple to fire" focal point from the home's hall entry IS a nice focal point. But, it shouldn't strangle the development of a better floor plan that could be had. And, it's doing just that.

  • akrogirl
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    We also have a two island kitchen, albeit a somewhat smaller version than the OP's. and, yes, the stove is on the same wall as the fridge and the main sink is where the OP has her range. Hollysprings, based on my limited experience with my own set-up, I feel that you are 100% correct - either the stove has to move or the islands need to rotate 90 degrees.

  • teamj
    Original Author
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Holly,

    I would gladly slay the elephant and move the range, but that causes some new issues; the cleanup sink would then go where the range is and look out into a tiny transom window, then the bulky fridge would either be stuck in the corner or too close to the living room. So weighing EVERYTHING, the range seems best suited where it is.

    And I agree, the more I look at the sink in the corner, the more it does feel like a time out.

    Roco,

    Believe me, I am considering carefully every piece of advice given here. I am not taking anything lightly, just when I try to implement things, new problems arise. For example the sink in the corner was supposed to be a solution. Now I revised the layout to have that, and it now seems (from advice of other posters) that facing the sink into the corner isn’t such a great solution after all. Yes I have to make the final decision, but it isn’t so cut and dry to sort the advice and figure out what works and what doesn't.

    Green,

    Did you have any idea of a better floor plan? Especially keeping the range where it is?

    Akrogirl,

    The islands cannot rotate 90 degrees unless they are a lot skinnier. To fit 2 islands with decent aisles would require them reduced to about 26” deep, and the second island would no longer support seatings.

  • sena01
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Would below layout solve some of the problems?

    Total depth of islands increased by 2", but offset by 2" decrease in aisle b/w two islands.

    Cleanup sink close to the range. I couldn't decide where you'd prefer the MW, so indicated alternatives where I thought it could go.

  • teamj
    Original Author
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Sena,

    Thank you again for your input, you have been EXTREMELY helpful.

    Both sinks in the first island is how I started the original thread!!! Nobody seemed to like it, although you have much more prep space on the fridge side of that island than I had originally.

    Also, I really like the side seat on the second island.

    I am ok with 2 different size islands as well, I think I am going to experiment with some variants.

    Also, assuming I can figure out the sinks and islands, no one commented on the thought of dropping the counter height to 33" somewhere along the run between the fridge and corner to avoid having a countertop seam.

  • teamj
    Original Author
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Something like this...

  • sena01
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Both sinks in the first island is how I started the original thread!!! Nobody seemed to like it

    I can only speak for myself. It wasn’t the number of sinks on one island that I disliked. What I didn't (and still don't) like, is to have island(s) running vertical to the range, and horizontal to the fridge wall. Both the range and the hood are wide, so I think wider side of the islands should be in front of it, not two narrow rows. And the fridge is long, but only the top part of it will be visible when you have the long side of the islands in front of the fridge. Both the range and fridge walls look fabulous when you look at them separately, but with the islands in front of them, the way they are placed now, all the charm is gone imo. So, although I have no expertise in this area, I think you should reconsider your decisions no. 1 and 2 indicated at the beginning of this tread

  • lavender_lass
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I think if you mock up your kitchen layout, you'll see what we're all talking about....as far as the island sink. Try walking around and 'preparing' a meal or two. Does it work or is it very awkward?

    If you still like it, then you know it's right for you :)

  • lafdr
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Ack, my computer reposted when I hit the back arrows, even though I never hit submit. So I deleted the duplicate.
    Lafdr

    This post was edited by lafdr on Sun, Oct 20, 13 at 0:40

  • teamj
    Original Author
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Lavender, I have mocked it up and it is starting to feel right. I think there may still be a few minor tradeoffs and construction challenges, but this seems to be the best layout, considering all factors.

    Lafdr, thank you for the advice. I think I will use some of those tips.

    This layout makes 2 work triangles, the second for kids / snacks with easy access to the microwave, but not moving the microwave too far from the chef. Prep sink at the end of the island makes for easy reach from the range, and leaving maximum prep space on the main island.

    This post was edited by teamj on Thu, Oct 24, 13 at 6:20

  • teamj
    Original Author
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Revised Range Wall

  • GreenDesigns
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    You still have about 18" of actual prep space next to the prep sink. You won't prep on the long side of the island and then walk around the corner to cook. You'll prep across from the range. The islands still run the wrong way for actual usability. And the cleanup sink has no landing space on one side.

    If you want to make an island the prep space, it needs to run lengthwise to the range wall. And that's why you're having so much trouble with the double island concept. The length of the islands is oriented towards the fridge, not the cooking zone.

    What about putting the fridge on the range wall all the way down to the left, sorta in the passageway between the DR and kitchen. That's part of the run that won't really be seen from the doorway anyway, which seems to be lost in your elevation views. You NEED to view this in a perspective view, not in elevations. The whole look of the design and it's symmetry isn't seen in real life like you envision it in the elevations. Elevations aren't real views that are ever seen. Perspectives are.

  • aokat15
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hi again teamj - I think Green is right on in that elevations don't show you what the space will really look like with the islands in front of the walls. So some of what you are focusing on for aesthetics you will lose in the actual space. For example, wanting the Pro48 to be a focal point on the back wall - you will not see all of it's beauty from the other side of the room.

    I know this has already been suggested, but I think you should reconsider moving the fridge to where you currently have the pantry. You have plenty of options for other pantry storage. In fact I think making the first island bigger and having pantry storage as well as dish storage behind the clean-up sink on the back wall would be great (and you could make look fabulous with the cabinetry details). You could perhaps go back to your sink back-to-back first plan here if you wanted another sink in this bigger island. But - first, if you need/want a second sink, think about the sizes you need. You having been drawing in large sinks... I have a 30 inch farmhouse sink and it's huge - I don't know if you need a 42 inch cleanup sink and huge prep sink. Anyway, something in terms of the size of islands and moving the fridge would be more like this:

  • GreenDesigns
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    This aligns the range with the islands better, and turns the islands for better work flow.

  • teamj
    Original Author
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Aokat,

    Hi again!

    I am having a hard time reading the text on your revised drawing. What does it say on the wall cabinets flanking the range?

    Green,

    Turning the islands would not leave enough room for aisles. Even if both islands were only 30” deep, I would have to make the 2 aisles about 36” wide. And the range has to be centered on the top wall, as there is a transom window in the countertop area that I would like centered above the range.

  • teamj
    Original Author
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    By the way, this is the how the standard kitchen plan looks, this is before. However, the builder is widening our plan 3', between the range and pantry. We are also extending a few feet longer on the range wall.

    You can see the transom window here

  • aokat15
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hit teamj - I just used an old layout of yours from above to edit so I didn't write anything in there... It was whatever you had noted at the time.

  • GreenDesigns
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    You mean the backsplash window in the pic above? I kept picturing an actual transom above the cabinets.

    First point. It's not centered in the pic of the original kitchen.

    Second point. Behind the range, it will both need to be tempered glass and have at least 6" of clearance to it from the cooking surface. In other words, the range (and hood) will need to be pulled forward, increasing the expense and difficulty of the installation.

    I'd skip doing the transom window entirely if that backsplash window is what you're talking about there. It doesn't add anything to the mix, and is making things more difficult to design around.

  • springroz
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I agree with Green, I do not care for the backsplash window, especially off center like that.....

    Even adding 3 feet, the two islands look cramped to me, I don't care what is in style, cramming stuff in for the sake of having "it" is never a good plan.

    Nancy

  • lavender_lass
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I still don't understand why you can't put a real window there...and the sink. Why is this builder such a tyrant about the windows? There's a window right next to it....and I would never have a dark kitchen, when there's an outside wall right there.

    Just my two cents...sorry if I sound grumpy, I think it's time for my tea/caffeine :)

  • ControlfreakECS
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I am guessing that the issue here is that this is a planned community and the builder is going for a specific look among all the houses from the outside. Personally, I would never agree to build in a situation like that, but what's done is done as far as that goes. And I don't know why a sink with cabs above it can't go on a wall with a backsplash window like that. *sigh* Seems almost crazy that we spent 2 threads arguing about an inaccurately defined window. LOL!

    What exactly do you NOT like about the standard build kitchen? When you say you are gaining 3 ft, do you mean that if you kept it exactly as above, the walkway from what looks like the DR to whatever is behind the peninsula would be 3 ft. wider? Why are you gaining those 3 ft, exactly? Is all of this because you want to fill that vacant space?

    What is on that wall to the right in the photo? Are those french doors to the entry hall? You say there is a pantry there? None of your drawings really include that wall, so I had assumed it is essentially open. Perhaps the behemoth fridge could go along there somewhere? Would that spark some new layout ideas?

    The original layout is actually pretty functional for a builder designed kitchen. You go from fridge to prep sink to cooking zone. The perspective is a little warped, but it seems the island has decent prep space as well as at least a couple feet on either side of the cooktop. Plus, the area between clean-up sink and cooktop makes an excellent secondary prep zone, although they would have a distance and an island barrier to the fridge. I'm not a huge fan of clean-up in front of stools, but other than that, it looks pretty good.

  • _sophiewheeler
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Just move the darn range to the wall backing up to the dining room. The "transom" window will be off center appearing no matter what you do because the cabinets on that "fridge" wall will hide the left part of the back wall no matter what you do.That makes the whole look off centered because you aren't taking that into account. If you want the window "centered" visually, it needs to move to the right in your plan, and since you say that can't be altered, (WHY??) it would be better to eliminate entirely since you've based your design off of a false symmetry.

    I'm with LL on this though. Put the sink on that wall with a normal window. Go back to the architectural review board of whatever HOA you are dealing with to get that done if you have to. It will be worth it for the better workflow and the LIGHT that this kitchen is missing. You might as well have it be a total interior room rather than occupy a choice exterior wall. There's no point in having it on an exterior wall unless you use that to your advantage by getting a window there.

  • teamj
    Original Author
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Lavender, thank you for the 2 cents! But no matter how much I gripe the window is staying as is.

    Control, about the planned community....exactly correct.

    Our home will be modified slightly from the picture in these ways:

    A. The kitchen shown is 15' from the window wall to the pantry. Ours will be 18'.

    B. Our "backsplash" window will be moved from where it is in the picture to 8'5" from the fridge wall (to the window centerline)

    And, yes, those doors just visible at the right of the picture are to the pantry. I am open to putting the fridge there, but I don't see what that would add?

    Holly, I wish I could convince them to modify the window, but the point is moot. There is zero chance of them approving this, so I need to work with what I have. As for light, there is plenty of glass in the family room and breakfast area, just not in the kitchen proper.

  • _sophiewheeler
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Then just give up and do the plan the builder had. It's FAR better than the wonky double island plans.

  • ControlfreakECS
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Do you have any type of overhead plan that reflects what the builder designed? Maybe that will help us help you modify that into something you want and like. Was it in the first thread? It's impossible to tell from the image island size, aisle widths and length of peninsula, etc. Like I said, the one planned seems pretty functional, but maybe our perception is wrong. It is making me wonder why you have put yourself through all of this and I also wonder if you have started to lose sight of that as well.

  • ControlfreakECS
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    found it, let's start over and modify this plan. It is complicated by the extra 3 ft not being shown on here. but I think we can try. The island in this overhead is woefully inadequate for prep, on that I think we can all agree.

  • rococogurl
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    It's difficult for me to imagine that this floor plan is the same as the sketch with the two islands, which had multiple entrances.

    @cf -- are you sure?

    If so, this is a piece of cake. Focal point big sink under that window where the range is planned, extend the island and the rest falls into place.

  • ControlfreakECS
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    They added an extra door to the dining room (in above, that would be lower right corner), removed peninsula, and I believe the kitchen is enlarged to 16.5' x 18'.

    Moving sink to window wall is apparently off the table and no matter how much better this kitchen would function if they did that, it will not be considered. But, IMO, turning the islands so they are parallel rather then perpendicular to the range should be strongly considered, as Green Designs showed above. It would even match better with the OP's primary inspiration pictures in the first thread.

  • rococogurl
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    As we all know, every kitchen space has its own limitations -- even those deemed ideal.

    When I first saw the plan I thought the kitchen was about 28 x 30 -- which is how it is scaled. It could work at that scale but not well at 18 x 18. Ten pounds don't go into a five pound bag.

    But even if someone wants to make that error, in the sketches shown repeatedly, sightlines are off, walls unbalanced, proportions disregarded and those issues never get addressed.

    If the sink cannot be on the window wall then that element needs to be dealt with properly -- which is not by working a window into a range guard space. Especially not an MCM horizontal window, off center, framed by two chests-on-chests which will make it all even more exaggerated plus an inspiration picture that indicates elaborate cabinetry details.

    Also, the builder's floorplan shows the kitchen/family room wall at 42" high with "raised countertop"-- i.e. open to the family room mostly and a place for stool seating on the f.r. side. In that case, two islands seems bizarre. If the wall is full height then there is one sole sliver of natural light in the weirdest possible place.

    In 10 years I've not seen a plan occupy the lengths of two kitchen forum threads with contributions from dozens of posters and remain in this groundhog day mode.

    This plan and the sketches the OP keeps changing and posting doesn't seem to correspond. I think this is way beyond rotating. This needs a reboot, a set of priorities and some common sense about the amount of space.

    This post was edited by rococogurl on Sat, Oct 26, 13 at 12:58

  • _sophiewheeler
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "This plan and the sketches the OP keeps changing and posting doesn't seem to correspond. I think this is way beyond rotating. This needs a reboot, a set of priorities and some common sense about the amount of space."

    Could not agree more!

    I think it's time for some on site paid professional advice. We're not getting enough information here from the OP to really help at all. I am retired, and only have to take jobs that I want to that are fun. I also play on this forum for fun, and this project has quit being fun.

    I don't care for the pulling nails dribble of pertinent info. There has never been an accurate layout of the altered space posted with the final actual dimensions. There's no sense of proportion or even any actual overriding design here other than a rigid attachment to misplaced symmetry that only works on paper. Enough good advice has been given and ignored for me to see the writing on the wall here. Good luck with the project.

  • teamj
    Original Author
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Holly,

    "Then just give up and do the plan the builder had. It's FAR better than the wonky double island plans."

    I never give up. That just not how i'm built. I will find a way, either with the help I am getting here from everyone or some other way...

    Controlfreakecs,

    "They added an extra door to the dining room (in above, that would be lower right corner), removed peninsula, and I believe the kitchen is enlarged to 16.5' x 18'."

    EXACTLY, however the extra door is optional.

    "Moving sink to window wall is apparently off the table and no matter how much better this kitchen would function if they did that, it will not be considered."

    Not that it won't be considered, it just can't be considered because the community will not allow the modification of that window.

    "But, IMO, turning the islands so they are parallel rather then perpendicular to the range should be strongly considered, as Green Designs showed above."

    The issue with this is 2 islands won't fit that way, and 1 island in the space would likely be too large.

  • beasty
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I think you need to back away from the floorplans and drawings and think about what you really want from the kitchen, and what your constraints are, and then come back to it. I think that would help clarify your thinking -- it's so easy to get caught up in the details and carry-on effects of changes that you lose sight of the overall project.

    For example, you state that moving the sink to the window wall can't be considered because the community won't let the window be modified. But I don't see why not being able to modify the window means the sink can't go under the window. There must be some other reason you think it won't work -- what is it and how important is it to you? Maybe trying listing your needs and wants and prioritizing them. Similarly, are 2 islands a necessity or a strong preference? Where does functionality rank? On this point, it sounds like you and your wife do cook, so I would urge you not to discount the hassle of dealing with a kitchen that will drive you or your wife crazy or cause you stress if you have kids -- picture carrying a hot pot of pasta water across the kitchen to drain it while a 3 year old darts through your cooking zone in order to get from the family room to the dining room.

    Once you have your priorities listed, then maybe turn back to a floorplan that includes only the structural elements that can't move and start from there.

    Or you could just hire a professional and save yourself some stress...

  • sena01
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I know you don't want this, but just to show how it might look here are 2 renderings.

    Next to wine is an utc fridge and coffee above it. MW is next to fridge, sinks are on the islands.

  • teamj
    Original Author
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    SENA,

    I do like your new idea. I had not considered moving the range while leaving the sinks in the islands. One of the reasons I never wanted to move the range is I didn't think the cleanup sink would look right under that thin window. This fixes that issue.

    Also this arrangement allows the islands to be about 6" longer and still maintain a good aisle width between the window wall and the islands.

    I am going to explore this idea further.

    This post was edited by teamj on Sun, Oct 27, 13 at 7:37

  • lavender_lass
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I don't have time to sketch this out...but Sena's response (nice drawing) gave me an idea.

    I'd put the range back on the 'window' wall, with a pantry on each side, where OP had the original shallow cabinets.

    The main sink, dishwasher and trash would go between the doorways to the dining room, with glass uppers above.

    These two walls will be your focal points, from the nook and family room, so I would want my 'nicest' views into these areas. The fridge, coffee station, breakfast etc. would go on the wall opposite the 'window' since personally, I don't like to stare at the fridge.

    Then, I'd TURN the island 90 degrees, so that the prep sink is opposite the range wall and put stools on two sides. This would give you a view out both window walls in the nook, family room while you prep...and it would make a lot more sense. Two islands look like too many barriers, IMHO.

    That's my last idea...I'm off to garden and wish OP best of luck on his kitchen :)

  • aokat15
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hi again teamj - I went back to your first thread. This was your option 5:

    I'm wondering about revisiting this but keeping the fridge on the left wall, as you have preferred and one large island with the clean-up sink in the island. I think you should play around with that a bit. Also, a small point on this option 5 - if you get custom cabinetry, then the drawers and bases in the island can be deeper than 24" so some of the black "dead space" would be utilized.

  • lavender_lass
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    See, I like that a lot better, but I'd have pantries on each end of the range counter, with the fridge on the 'back' wall, by the nook. If you have room, you can even put a third sink by the coffee station...since you want to glam it up a bit. Maybe really cool faucets on each sink and make them a nice feature.

    That big island will be so much more functional than two small ones...maybe white leather stools with chrome and the white leather back straps? Just my two cents :)

  • teamj
    Original Author
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Here is a perspective of one of the layouts. After seeing this I think the kitchen may look and possibly perform better by keeping that doorway in the corner closed.

    And I do like a few of the concepts we have played around with here but I think I am going to seek some professional advice in the coming weeks to see which tradeoffs make the most sense, If I can find the right local professional...

  • sena01
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I just noticed the wall next to the fridge. Make sure that you can open the fridge door, remove shelves, drwers etc.. I don't know about subzero you're planning to get, but I had to pull my fridge to clean, with a filler of 4". Some professionals unfortunately miss that point.

  • teamj
    Original Author
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    For anyone is following this thread, here are the latest revisions.

    1. All base cabinets pulled 1" from the wall to increase the counter depth and partially flush in the large range and fridge.

    2. Designated snack/beverage area with easy access to trash / sink / UTC fridge / microwave / coffee maker.

    3. Large prep sink now close to range and plenty of counter space and storage close by.

    4. Decent aisle widths.

    For anyone who hasn't followed this thread, no I can not move the range!

    This post was edited by teamj on Tue, Jan 28, 14 at 21:29

  • lavender_lass
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I like it! :)

  • teamj
    Original Author
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Fridge wall

  • bmorepanic
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Small technical note - if you pull the wall cabinets out an inch, fillers in corners or blind corner cabinets can become challenging to figure out as both runs need to now be an inch shorter.

    Also, remember to leave a little slack because your walls will not be square, level or straight - and I do mean little, like 1-1.5".

    Personal opinion is that it would be just fine to break the line in the uppers and just use single doors over the refrigerator. Why? Visually, the cabinet depth is already changing and it's a big box anyway with the side panels. Also, because you won't be able to open those upper doors except with a ladder. With taller doors, you might be able to reach more stuff before pulling out the ladder. I have bakeware stored on the cabinet floor with trays on a fixed shelf above with tray dividers. I can reach both things without a ladder because I only need to grab a bottom corner to slide out trays.

  • teamj
    Original Author
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    bmorepanic,

    Thank you for the single door over the fridge idea, I think we might look into that.

    Here is the range wall view.

  • sena01
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I like it, too.

    Nearly in all my kitchens I had uppers above the sink and had no problem. I now have 13,5" deep ones, 20" above the counter.

    As to the cab above the fridge, though I know noting about cabinet building, I guess the it can be a single door that look like 2 from the outside, if that makes sense.

  • rococogurl
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    There cannot be an 18-wide trash bin under a 45-inch Kohler stages sink. It won't fit. I stated that before.

    That sink needs to move down to make space for the bin or the bin could go next to the fridge. I'd move the sink down.

    The same issue exists near the secondary sink. The trash bin needs to be near that sink not on the other island IMO.

    There is still insufficient perimeter counter space. But if you're willing to sacrifice that with adjustments on the trash bins it's a more functional plan now.

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