I think your 42" aisles on the long legs are too narrow, by at least 6", preferably 8-9". Having the aisles that narrow in a deep U-shaped layout like you have will create problems whenever the fridge or DW doors are open. I don;t know about you, but I pretty frequently need to stand in front of my fridge with the door wide open and noodle about what to make for supper.

Also you mentioned a handicapped relative. A wheelchair needs a lot of room to roll around..

Otherwise it seems to me you have good functional flow from storage to prep to cooking to plating.

Just not enough room for an island that big in your space. U-shaped kitchens are great, but when you're going to plunk a huge island in the middle they can get too spread out for efficient working. Either make your island smaller, or move the working zones closer together with a different plan. Otherwise you've just got this big barrier to easy, efficient work flow.
In a pantry that large I think I would put a small sink. Useful to have in your storage space..

I would also reject a design that didn;t have direct access from the pantry into the workzone. Walking out of the U, around the corner and through the doorway to fetch stuff would drive me insane!. You could put a doorway into the pantry along the fridge wall, at the the point where the counter turns the corner. (This would eliminate one of your blind corner areas, too.) As i think about it, with a direct-to-pantry-from-workzone doorway I think that you could avoid having to widen your aisles to maximum I suggested above. You could go with just 6" more on each side. The extra entrance via the pantry would remove some of the trapped-space in the workzone as it is presently drawn. You needn't have a really wide doorway in this postion, as long as you keep the one you have already drawn and it is normally wide.
HTH

L.

..

Thanks lireo! Great input. Increase aisle size, decrease island width. Yes to both. I forgot about the dishwasher being open and absolutely I putter with my fridge doors open all the time. I'm not sure I can imagine how to do a pantry entry without losing my baking center in the corner though?...but I'll sketch it out and see if I can picture it better.

Regarding the island's size...make sure you can at least reach the middle of the island for cleaning it. An 8'x8' island would be impossible for most people to clean. You would need to have at least a 4' reach to clean the middle of the island. If you're tall and/or have very long arms and can reach 4' (48"), then it might work for you - but you may be the only one who can clean it! :-)

Porch - make sure the porch is a minimum of 8' deep everywhere. Architects/ builders like to show 4' and 6' porches b/c they're cheaper to build and most people don't realize until it's too late that the porch is too shallow. However, to be usable as more than just "for show", a porch should be at least 8' deep. I can't tell from your pics how deep the porch is at it's shallowest, so I thought I'd say something just in case...

Which brings up another point - none of your layouts have measurements. Please see the Layout Help FAQ for information on what should be included in the layout picture to get the most/best responses.

Here is a link that might be useful: FAQ: How do I ask for Layout Help and what information should I include?

Baking Center...if you want the perimeter to be your Baking Center, consider deeper counters on that side. Rolling out dough, etc. works better with deeper counters. I would think the island would be better for that reason. You could still store supplies on the perimeter (or in the island drawers), but having a deeper work space is very nice for a Baking Center! (I roll out dough on my peninsula for that reason.)

Buehl... Thanks for the tip on the porches. I'm pretty sure that one is 8 feet deep, but you are right, I want to eat out there so need space for tables and chairs. We have 2 other porches that I will take a look at as well. It's funny how I'll read all these great posts about things like porch depth and that knowledge just goes out the window when I'm reviewing my own plans. ;/

I hear you on the island size and shape. I think we will make it a bit narrower to increase the aisle size? It is a shape I am familiar with and love love love for various reasons. It's a "very useful engine" as my kids would say. I do have to climb up to clean it. That's okay! :)

As for the layouts... it is a very early preliminary plan, but it does have some measurements (unless you are looking at a different picture?): the kitchen size, pantry size are there... and the island size is still somewhat in flux so is not marked yet. Did you mean something else, like counter depth? I think once I confirm the basic placement of appliances our designer will give me more detailed measurements. The range will be about 55", the frig. around 48", and I'm not sure about the sink yet. I'm debating 36 vs 40 inch (which I found a better deal on actually, but I'm worried it will mess with basic cabinet sizes on that side of the room).

I apologize if I jumped the gun and posted to early. I couldn't help myself. And I can change some of the measurements at this stage too... since its a new build. Like the baking center counter width! I never would have thought of that. I do like an island for rolling, but I like marble even better so that is a brilliant idea! (and the island will be butcher block... I can't even imagine the cost of marble on that island, but I'm sure it would give my husband a heart attack ;))

Here is a photo of the entire first floor for some context (the best version I have for the next few days unfortunately) and a link to a bigger version on flickr. The garage will be detached with a covered breezeway to the left of the kitchen.

Here is a link that might be useful: first floor plan

I was looking for things like overall width/depth, the widths/lengths of each window/wall/doorway and the distances b/w each window/wall/doorway.

However, if it's flexible, then the ballpark measurements are fine. When things cannot be changed or you need to work within a set footprint, that's when "exact" measurements are the most important.

You didn't "jump the gun", it's good to get general comments like you've been getting here to start.

I looked at the other pics for the house (and got a kick out of the little pieces of paper covering what I assume are your children's names (XXX's Bedroom, for example). :-)

RE losing the "baking center".

You have what looks like 6 -7 feet on the left of the range, (without a measured drawing it's hard to tell). You can easily have an ample baking center just along that stretch of the range wall.

Put the doorway on what is the upper (as you look at drawing you posted) part of the fridge wall, leaving the counter to just continue into the pantry wall, w/o turning the corner.

You'd still have plunk space beside (on right as you stand in front of) the fridge.

Or since you're building from scratch consider not having a wall between the pantry and the kitchen bisecting the counter to the left of the stove from the counter under the window in the pantry. (Keep the wall behind the fridge and it's plunk counter.)

That would give you:

a) functionally another window in your kitchen (the pantry one), and,

b) a longer clear span for your
"baking area".

Although something like this would expose the shelves and contents of the pantry a bit more to working end of the kitchen, you could have the "pretty" pantry section in this area, (canisters, pretty accessories, etc.) and organize things so that the more mundane storage (bags of dog food and cases of bottled water) are not visible from the kitchen.

HTH

L.

RE losing the "baking center".

You have what looks like 6 -7 feet on the left of the range, (without a measured drawing it's hard to tell). You can easily have an ample baking center just along that stretch of the range wall.

Put the doorway on what is the upper (as you look at drawing you posted) part of the fridge wall, leaving the counter to just continue into the pantry wall, w/o turning the corner.

You'd still have plunk space beside (on right as you stand in front of) the fridge.

Or since you're building from scratch consider not having a wall between the pantry and the kitchen bisecting the counter to the left of the stove from the counter under the window in the pantry. (Keep the wall behind the fridge and it's plunk counter.)

That would give you:

a) functionally another window in your kitchen (the pantry one), and,

b) a longer clear span for your
"baking area".

Although something like this would expose the shelves and contents of the pantry a bit more to working end of the kitchen, you could have the "pretty" pantry section in this area, (canisters, pretty accessories, etc.) and organize things so that the more mundane storage (bags of dog food and cases of bottled water) are not visible from the kitchen.

HTH

L.

Were this my kitchen, I'd definitely have direct access to the pantry. The fewer steps the better. Can you move the fridge closer to the range, and put a door to the pantry where the fridge is now? I'd put the prep sink either in the corner or under the window to the left of the range. Corners are so wasted, and that would use that space efficiently.

So, you'd have, from left to right, doorway to pantry, then fridge, then landing space next to the fridge, then the sink, then prep space, then the range. You can shrink the island and still have plenty of room for seating, food prep, schoolwork, etc.

I would not want to have to walk all the way around the island to go from fridge to main sink. If you move the fridge closer to the range, and shrink the island a little bit, you will have easier access to the fridge.

I think I'd also move the sink closer to the range. It looks like you have plenty of prep space between sink and range -- too much to be efficient, so you'll always be taking extra steps. Be careful about wanting to center things! Efficiency is far more important.

It looks like a great design, a very functional kitchen. I love the windows flanking the range and am envious of the big pantry. It's all going to work very well with a few tweaks.

One thing to remember: If this is your forever house, be sure that you make it as easy as possible for yourself. You may have a lot of energy now, but as you get older, you will be annoyed by things that don't bother you now. For example, having to climb up on the island to clean the center of it would drive me insane, even though when I was younger, it would not have bothered me. Ditto walking around corners to get to the fridge/range/sink. I want them all within reach and easily accessible. Extra steps mean extra time, and I have precious little of that.

L - I really like your plan and I don't think I'd lose much counter space at all. My family takes up so much counter space for each "job" and I kind of wanted my baking center away from the other zones a bit... but I think that can be accomplished with an "open" pantry design like you mentioned.

Baltomom: I like your pantry access idea as well. It was actually the first way I drew up my plan (I think I saw it in Laura12's plans and loved the secret cabinet doors) My only problem with it is I feel pretty strongly about having the frig. on the edge of the kitchen and far far away from the range. That way the many children and other relatives (often 15+ in the kitchen area, and not just on holidays) who are always digging through there or getting ice don't get in my way when I'm cooking up dinner on the gas range and chopping with a knife. With my own children - I can train them to stay back from the range... but others people's children? Not likely in an afternoon's visit. :) I've had too many close calls! So I want them on the perimeter. There are some major drawbacks with this goal though, as you mentioned. I did think the smaller sink would be used to wash fruits and veggies and anything prep related.. its a job I usually have the kids do anyway at this stage. The main sink would be mainly cleanup (and hiding all my dirty pans until after the meal) and would be coming from a dining area usually and not the fridge.

Good point about walking around to the pantry. It is closer to the garage entry so good for dropping off groceries... but that happens twice a week, not every day. I'm very protective of my counter space but it looks like I need to find another way to access the pantry. Another window in the kitchen would be a huge plus in my book!

I think I made myself sound younger than I am... with the climbing on the island comment! ;/ I've had islands that size and found them exceptionally useful for large crowds, but I was younger and I really want to be here with grandchildren driving their hot wheels down the halls in 10 years. Can I clean it with a swifter? (I'm not kidding!) How wide do you think I can keep it and still make it manageable? 6 or 7?

Off to sketch pantry ideas. Thanks so much!

Setup some boxes or other surface 36" high. Then reach over without straining to discover your maximum reach and measure the distance b/w the edge of the surface and your farthest reach (but don't strain!).

Double this measurement and that's the deepest or widest you can go. Only one direction has to be that distance. So, if you can easily reach 30", that means your island can either be no deeper than 60" or no wider than 60". The other direction can be 8' if you want it to be!

(That means, for example, the island be be either 96"x60" or 60"x 96")

I still like the banquette...and I don't know if you need such a big island. This gives you light and access to the back patio...or maybe make that area your sunroom :)
{{gwi:1493855}}From Kitchen plans

LL: I still like the banquette too. Your banquette better than the original one though because I still get my kitchen in the backyard with eastern light. And your deck access is great too.

There are 2 things though: With an L shaped kitchen, the appliances are much closer together. I think with a smaller family and fewer little ones running around it wouldn't be such a big deal. But it would be hard to have someone getting ice from the fridge, someone baking muffins, someone cooking up the onions on the range, someone chopping up the fruit, and someone washing the potatoes all the same time without really getting in the way, you know? It's a great layout for 1 cook, and much more efficient for 1 cook I agree. But with so many mouths to feed and so often, I need help in the kitchen just to get the food out hot, and separation of the range from the fridge and sink areas is key for my own sanity. I've been having nightmares of tipped boiling pots since I got pregnant with my firstborn. ;) Especially when multiple large families come over. Plus I would lose alot of cabinet space. My current kitchen has the same amount as the L shape and half my stuff is in storage still and I miss it! My cooking is way less creative and alot less fun without all my tools. I can't think of a kitchen shape that would have more storage space and give me that separation than a large long U. Can you think of anything else besides an L shape? Do you like the idea of the pantry extending on the eastern wall instead of the hall entrance?

I also have some really large men in my family (and growing boys) who just don't fit well in booths like that and don't like to be confined. So that limits its function a bit. A bench on one side doesn't feel quite as confining, like in the hearth room nook. Plus I can take away the table and it can be used as more seating for football games!

And that lovely sunroom and clutter room is awesome still. The sunroom in that location is a hard sell financially because it is not "already" in the footprint of the house and under the porch roof (but I will be inquiring further with the builder to confirm), and hubby wants the laundry tucked away with doors for sure. Maybe if we build again with fewer site restrictions I'll pull out these ideas again!

Hi redheadeddaughter! I haven't read all of the responses above, but just wanted to share my kitchen as it is a very similar layout. I originally did not have direct access to the pantry in our preliminary plan, but after posting on these forums and getting great feedback, I changed it around and have never looked back!! It is so wonderful having the pantry right off the prep space. Good luck and happy planning!! Your house in general looks like it will be amazing!!

Here is a link that might be useful: my kitchen

Hello aokat! Thank yo so much for sharing. I love your kitchen and have it save as a favorite. I love every detail you have! Down to the windsor chairs. I think you see alot of your kitchen in mine because its partly inspired by yours! I'm almost convinced on the pantry. ;)

OK...after a marathon design session, here's what I came up with!

It reworks the Kitchen, Pantry, Mudroom, and Laundry Room.

(You will have click/select it to see it bigger and to read it, sorry - it's too big!)

Well Buehl, who are you exactly? The kitchen angel?!!! So many great ideas here. I can't believe how much time and knowledge you have shared with me in doing this... I can only imagine the marathon was a very very long one. Wish I could see you in person and give you a hug. Truly. I meet with the designer again tom., off to print this off and prepare.

Zone map:

Thank you for the compliment!

BTW...I wanted to point out the 30" deep counters on the range run - lots of space for rolling out dough, etc. 30" deep and over 7 feet wide/long! Enough room for rolling dough and the pans/cookie sheets that go with it!

This is an amazing plan you have going! (Wishing I could figure out how to plunk it into my house, along with all of those book nooks.--We homeschool, too. : ))

Your plan reminds me somewhat of Chinese Grandma's kitchen. She has some neat features, so you might want to check it out if you haven't already. Note that there are 2 parts to her reveal on her blog. I'm linking you to part one.

Here is a link that might be useful: Chinese Grandma's Dream Kitchen

buehl... just wanted to say that the 30" back counter is going in the plans today! That is brilliant for alot of reasons, as you mentioned, but also for safety when little ones, or distracted mamas, walk by and bump the cookie sheets right off the counter! So thanks for that! Also I'm bumping the sink cabinet out a little bit, but leaving the DW counter runs 24", to create a little space behind the sink as you showed. It's not quite as good as en entire bumpout, but it will give me a little space for plants and a cake stand with my dish soaps towards the back. Still working on the rest (I ran out of energy about 1am last night and decided to buy some more time), but those 2 are for sure in the plans.

laughable! I love your internet name. I'm so glad you like it. I've been gathering ideas here for a while, so really it's a hodge podge of great ideas from other people. Lot's of homeschoolers on these boards too! Thanks for a link to that beautiful kitchen...

Buehl- It looks fantastic! Having the door to the pantry is wonderful...easy access to everything and doesn't seem so tight in the back (stove area) when kids are in fridge and (hopefully) helping with dishes :)

How did the meeting with the designer go?

Mom and Dad and dog deserve cubbies in the mudroom! DH and I use the hooks and boot trays way more than the closet.

If you look closely, there are 2 additional cubbies (total of 5) - so, yes, there is one each for mom & dad. Generally, kids need more room b/c of school backpacks, etc. You need to also keep in mind that kids won't be kids for long and before you turn around twice, they're out the door! So then there will be 5 cubbies for mom & dad!

Cubbies are great, but I think we will have one long bench and hooks instead. I've never had a "mud room" drop space before, so any size will be a welcome one. Even though we homeschool we have multiple activities and coop classes throughout the week that require backpacks and books and art supplies... so it will be quite a treat. But I do need to think about the pets for sure...

Oh, good, I didn't see the other cubbies, thanks! We don't have cubbies, just hooks and boot trays; and with crossover seasons multiple jackets/sweaters/etc.

My guys always just carried their backpacks upstairs, since it had all their "stuff" and before dear old mom could look at the homework...of course, the lunch boxes didn't come down till the next day, or later...:[

Buehl: It went well. Short though. I made good notes and put stickies on everything. And my 18 month old dropped little gorilla munchies all over his nice forest green carpet and I proceeded to mush it in while trying to pick it up!

We want him to focus on the elevations this week, so we may not see any floorplan updates for a bit. I've already sent him another change since then... I wanted to increase the depth of the hearth room dining nook to the size of a twin bed mattress. :) I read that here today and immediately thought of a bunch of great uses for that. but an extra spot to sleep without adding a ton of square footage is a huge bonus! I don't know if it will be as big as the one LL had in mind though, we will see.

LOL! That's bigger than I drew...mine was just for seating. But, I think that's an excellent idea. I've seen something like that in one of Sarah Susanka's books...very pretty and so functional.

You can put deep bolsters along the back, for comfortable seating and then move them, when you want to use it for a sleeping area. If you have storage underneath, you can even keep the pillows and blankets right there. Great space for kids to curl up, too :)

LL- oh no, bigger, really?! I can just imagine curling up with a book on a rainy day and watching my kitchen garden get watered. My poor designer. One day he hears we want to cut, the next I'm adding space in my pantry and window seats everywhere (I think I also might have asked him for another one in the master bedroom...). Oh and we are def. keeping the book nook. That's my favorite too. Thanks for the note btw! :)