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Help Marcolo lay out his cabinets, please!

Posted by marcolo (My Page) on
Fri, Sep 14, 12 at 18:25

OK, I've made it this far. Wanna help me figure out what to put where?

What can't move:
- Walls, windows or doors
- Sink, range, fridge or DW (it can scootch but not move)

What I'd like to fit in here:

- The island is a bear; I wasn't prepared to have one and hadn't thought about it much. I am getting an 18" round prep sink. I also want at least 1, preferably 2, places to sit. We can cheat on clearances and overhangs a little bit because these seats are not for dining. They are for me to work at on occasion, and mostly to keep people out of my hair while cooking.
- I generally prefer lazy susan corners but I'm not going to wreck everything else to get one
- Given the shortness of the sink run I may put trash under one side of the sink
- I don't need a gargantuan sink. I'm considering the larger Riverby, which I think is 33" (I can check)

The one dimension I see missing is the aisle between the island and fridge. It's 47".

You know I want my fair share of gadgetry.

Any ideas?


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Help Marcolo lay out his cabinets, please!

I think I would actually put the trash on the island next to the prep sink, as prepping tends to generate the most refuse. A small secondary trash could go under the cleanup sink, but the usefulness of it will depend on where you see yourself eating primarily and how you handle waste from that. If you use a garbage disposal or compost a lot of food waste, then it's probably not needed. For larger gatherings where you eat in the DR, it's a straight shot past the island trash to scrape and then dump in the main sink until someone can put them in the DW.

It's not clear how much space you have between the range and the "dead" cabinet, but two pantry pullouts on each side of the range would be a good look visually as well as house oils and spices. Or one pull out and one tray base would look visually similar. Depends on what you have more of that needs a home.

If you do a lot of baking, I can see the area to the right of the range becoming a dedicated spot for that, and you could possibly even use a lower height counter to assist you with that. Again, not sure where the shallow cabinet stops, but you could do a mixer lift cabinet for one of the bases if it won't be at home on the counter.

For things like a coffee maker and toaster, I'd put them on the counter to the left of the main sink, close to the nook. Possibly disguise them with a solid door appliance garage that either slides back or lifts up. It could create a hutch type look with glass above and even be disguised to look like drawers if you did a lift up door.

To further keep people out of your hot zone when cooking, you could take that shallow top drawer and make it a pull out cutting board. That would block traffic from the dining room, but block your access to the baking supplies if you did the baking area. Another use for that area to the right could be for liquor storage and I don't think that the pull out cutting board would block access to the prep/bar sink if it were that round sink that you want and was directly on the corner as a diagonal.


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RE: Help Marcolo lay out his cabinets, please!

Awesome ideas.

I think I would actually put the trash on the island next to the prep sink

Could I finagle a trash pullout to open toward the main sink run? This way one trash would be usable for both prep and cleanup--just shove it down the counter.

It's not clear how much space you have between the range and the "dead" cabinet, but two pantry pullouts

Good thought. The amount of space isn't clear to us, either, the way the cabs are built now, so we'll need to determine it at demo.

To further keep people out of your hot zone when cooking, you could take that shallow top drawer and make it a pull out cutting board.

Excellent. I literally was contemplating hooks for a velvet rope. I'm not kidding. I have the rope. Sort of that, "Heh. Heh. You're so funny. Heh. Um. You're serious aren't you? I'm backing up now. I'm backing up now." The cutting board is less insane and I could still get a utensil drawer under it.

That upper cab by the DR will be used for barware at least. It's visible from the front door and has to be modestly presentable as well as handy for cocktails.


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RE: Help Marcolo lay out his cabinets, please!

All I hear in my head when I look at other people's floorplans is that "wah-wah-wah" of Charlie Brown's teacher.

I have nothing to offer other than I'm happy to see the arched dining nook area!


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RE: Help Marcolo lay out his cabinets, please!

Can the range scootch a bit left so it is symmetrical between those windows? I do like the layout !

What are your trash/compost/recycling requirements? I ended up putting the main trash and recycles next to the prep sink. Each sink has a compost bucket underneath. That works well for us. We only generate one bag a week of landfill trash (family of four) so I think if i had to do over and it were possible, the 50/50 split between trash and recycles would be like 25/75 or 35/65. With just a tiny landfill trash (like they put on my office waste basket to comply with SF law).


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RE: Help Marcolo lay out his cabinets, please!

My 2 cents Marcolo..

I love the overall balance in the kitchen..

I like the prep sink location.. You can rinse, chop, swivel and toss into the pan.. Trash in this location would be handy..

I would consider moving the pantry to the DW run in the corner near the arched opening to mud room.. Would be handy to come in and unload all the stuff.. If you do this and scootch the fride to the corner where you show the pantry, you can potentially do a counter that is open to both the dining room and kitchen.. A wide arch that spans this counter and the entry would be nicer than the door and give you a very useful landing zone near the dining table. Even if this dual sided opening is not possible, I would still ove the pantry and make this a counter to provide you a landing zone near the breakfast nook.. Would be a nice place for snac/ coffee station as well.

I love your breakfast nook as it seem that people will be able to see the other person naturally across the table I think. What is the light situation here.. Perhaps the corner near the back porch could have a window? It looks like a spot you would hang out a lot. If you are use commenting on clowns on the GW kitchen forum with a cup of coffee and someone rings the doorbell, it would be convenient to check through the window..

Gadgetry what do you wish to have. It would be good to know as the layout decisions are considered.


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RE: Help Marcolo lay out his cabinets, please!

Marcolo, I am terrible at layout so can't advise you. I just had to post on this thread to tell you I laughed out loud at your velvet rope comment. I soo wish! I then immediately thought of Johnliu's superb thread "The Maginot Line....". (I'm on my iphone, so can't link it)


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RE: Help Marcolo lay out his cabinets, please!

Does a microwave have a designated cabinet or location? Not seeing one...


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RE: Help Marcolo lay out his cabinets, please!

The breakfast nook looks like it is in a very interior space (far from light and windows). Wouldn't you like to be looking out a window when you are at the table? Or at least be in a well-lit area?

I don't like it that my kitchen table is in the darkest part of my kitchen.


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RE: Help Marcolo lay out his cabinets, please!

Herbflavor-- that is exactly what I remembered too:)

Here is a link that might be useful: Johnliu's Maginot line thread.. Cooking is sometimes like war


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RE: Help Marcolo lay out his cabinets, please!

It looks wonderful! The mudroom is a great feature and it ties in so well, with the banquette :)

But, I don't think you should put seating on the baquette side of the island. Instead, I'd have glass cabinets, with dishes. That would be much nicer to look at (from the banquette) than the back of the stools.

Can you make the island a bit shorter and have room for a stool at each end? It would work, if you moved the prep sink over just a bit...and made more space between the island and main sink.

To keep the scale, I would have the island about the same size as the banquette...otherwise, it seems like the banquette is too small. But, maybe that's just me. Something like this?

From Cottage house plans


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RE: Help Marcolo lay out his cabinets, please!

What is a dead cab?


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RE: Help Marcolo lay out his cabinets, please!

Marcolo wrote:

"I was literally thinking of a velvet rope..."

That made me laugh!

There used to be (in the 70's, I think) a TV sitcom that partly took place in a hospital or clinic waiting room. And one of the characters was always ordering people to stand "back of the white line".

It became a watch word in our household and my new kitchen floor plan has a white line designed into the floor treatment - two of them actually. After 32 years of marriage, my DH is well trained, but we have also schooled successive generations of pets to stay "back of the white line" to keep them clear of the working zone. (Sometimes, in some kitchens, it has just been a band of white duct tape serving the purpose.) Now we're stuck with it.

L.


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RE: Help Marcolo lay out his cabinets, please!

Could I finagle a trash pullout to open toward the main sink run? This way one trash would be usable for both prep and cleanup--just shove it down the counter.

Our island trash pulls out toward our main sink, as you're proposing in this question. It serves us well for both cooking/prep and cleanup. I thought maybe I'd need a trash under the prep sink, which is on the opposite corner (same end) of the island, but it's not necessary.

I love this layout.


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RE: Help Marcolo lay out his cabinets, please!

Are the grey walls structural?

Not crazy about the pantry and fridge being different depths, unless you flank the fridge w 2 pantries. But weren't you going for an icebox look?

I also like landing space and trash right next to my fridge. Easier to unload groceries with landing space. And, sadly, we try to eat a lot of fresh produce and that means we throw a lot out. It's handy to open the fridge door and be able to just toss stuff in the trash.

Can you put interior windows on either side of the banquette, to add light?

I really like the range flanked by windows and the way it lines up pretty well as a focal point when you are sitting at the banquette.

The island looks too wide to me. Also, I am a bit anti-island. I am not crazy about an island in what already has some retro nods .... arch, nook. I'd rather see a table, on wheels. I am also not sure why someone would sit there, when the nook is so close. Nook seems much more pleasant for a guest to converse with you while you cook. I suppose I also hate sitting on mean little stools.


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RE: Help Marcolo lay out his cabinets, please!

Thoughts: I'm not sure I'd want the prep sink abutting a corner of the island. I guess this way you can get help prepping from someone out of your way, but while I've found I like to prep on the left side of the prep sink vs. the right, I also like to have some space on the right side when my left side is full. Sometimes DS sits there and we play scrabble while I prep/cook.

Island venting - we put our bow vent in an (I still think this is incredibly clever but of course we haven't gone through plumbing inspection yet) adjacent cabinet :).

Our island sink is in a 36" cabinet and we have 3 trash pullouts, 1 trash, 1 plastic and other recycling, and 1 paper. I love the setup.

Where are your cookbooks going? How about a bookshelf and a chair at the end of the island? And where have you planned to put the parrot?


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RE: Help Marcolo lay out his cabinets, please!

I'd probably leave traditional depth bases and counters at big sink[top] end of kitchen. That will change the scale and allow the island to remain as is,without changing its dimension.It's a large island-it is an "island"kitchen, so may as well give it it's due. Need the 4 or 6 inches given back to walking area at the top. All functions will work better[walking through/prep/cleanup/visuals] with that change I think. The other option-to scale some inches off island is
a possibility,but with beautiful chunky top and the material choices you'll pick i think the island as is has it's good points.People will want to hang there more than you realize.I'd aim for overhang with even more than 2 stools of a style that can be pushed under of course. Maybe the table top in the breakfast nook
could be downsized-a petite look there could be actually more interesting-doesn't have to be tiny,but scale it back
and showcase the benches/cushions/walls-when you get to it-decorative and fun.The people positioned at island can glance out windows,or around range mantle,or over at delightful nook.Counterpoints.


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RE: Help Marcolo lay out his cabinets, please!

OK, let me catch up.

Marcydc--I'm going to ask about the range being off-center. Hope it's not due to a post or something. These are the plans from the estimating set, so the next step is to address the details. We just went to single-stream recycling, so now we need a place for one larger recycling bin rather than several smaller ones.

lalitha & donaleen--There will be plenty of light in the nook. The partition walls also have arched openings in them.

herbflavor--I'm trying to figure out where to hide the MW. Back of the island toward the range? Seems like a lot of stuff wants to be on that corner. I've been trying to find photos that combine MWs with a pullout pantry, but no luck yet. Anybody find some, let me know!

lavender, I think the bottom is the likeliest candidate for seating. Not sure I'd want someone sitting in that aisle at the top, though.

linelle, long story but that cab houses the basement walkout. Just think of it as an unopenable large box sitting under the window. It leaves enough room for a top drawer, and maybe for an extremely shallow-depth cab (like to hang potholders or something), but that's all.

liriodendron, maybe I should do a police line in my Marmo.

rhome410, I thought you had that setup. I need to find a picture of beagle's two-way trash opening. That might be handy.

ntnrdredux, the gray walls are mostly the new construction. The pantry and fridge will NOT be different depths--not sure why she drew them that way. The island is there for pure function--I need the sink. Also I was considering putting an under-counter wall oven there, because the range I'm considering has small ovens. But that may not happen now. I'm hoping to make it at least LOOK like a table.

Old bat2be (great name)--what did you mean about the bow vent? I'm not sure I follow? Cookbooks are in my sunroom for now. That's OK but I would like to add a few shelves in the kitchen.


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RE: Help Marcolo lay out his cabinets, please!

It's fantastic, Marcolo. I'm so glad you were able to keep that wonderful nook. At least some guests will be easy to keep out of the way.

Have you chosen your 1 or 2 stools yet? I'd think that would be the next step for island layout. The right size and shape to disappear tidily under your island in minimal space.

The only suggestion I mined from my own simple kitchen won't work for you but I value it too much to just blow off--vertical storage at your island prep station for some great DW-safe cutting boards, wood or whatever. Fantastic for pivoting the veggies into the saute pan and then continuing briskly on to sink and DW. :)


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RE: Help Marcolo lay out his cabinets, please!

I'm not sure why you'd put chairs/stools at the island right in front of the seating at the nook? (As you know I abominate island seating, though, so my sciatica may be squawking here.) For guests, I just can't see people negotiating leggy stools when there are comfortable bench seats 2 feet away. Alternately, they pack up two deep on stools AND nook and increase your claustrophobic sense of being in a packed auditorium as you cook. For your own bean-shelling needs, wouldn't a stool be better positioned at the end of the island with the prep sink in front of it and pullout trash beneath/next to it?

I'd want more space on the side of the prep sink, so things don't careen off the edge. In my experience with my prep sink (as a right-handed cook), I want unruly unwashed rutabegas piled on the left and washed ones neatly stacked on a cutting board to the right. As you have it now you will have to stack half the items behind the faucet wherever you are standing; not ideal.

More space between prep sink and edge of island also means more space to plunk items as you pull them out of/put them in to the fridge - nearby landing space is at a premium with this fridge position.

The benefit of a round prep sink is that you can put your prep sink faucet on the back inside corner for full use of the sink from both island edges.

--> Will you still be doing a long shallow shelf above the counter, under the upper cabinetry, for mise storage?


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RE: Help Marcolo lay out his cabinets, please!

ooh ooh ooh, a range w small ovens is probably european ... which one!?

The top of your island lines up with the arch, but the bottom is a bit shorter. Maybe make it longer so that you have it as a landing are for things going into or out of the fridge? Which way does the fridge door open?


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RE: Help Marcolo lay out his cabinets, please!

circus, when my sister is here she likes to be right next to me when I cook "so I can talk to him." I mean, she stands right in the prep corner between sink and range! My SIL is even worse, if possible. She likes to harm--um, help--in the kitchen by actually sticking her hands onto my cutting board to push the veg around. Yes, I was tempted. So I think one seat at least could keep them perched out of my way.

I think you're right about more space between sink and edge. That's just a placeholder for now, anyway. How big a landing space would be ideal? Also, what do you mean by "back inside corner?"

mtnredux, I'm hesitant to lengthen the island because that's the one spacious aisle in the whole kitchen. Gives people a place to mill about, no?


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RE: Help Marcolo lay out his cabinets, please!

About your trash; we have 2 trash pull-outs. The one by the prep sink gets 90% of the trash. And as for microwave placement. mine is at waist level in the pantry and I love it there....


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RE: Help Marcolo lay out his cabinets, please!

Looks like a lovely kitchen! I bet those arches will look great. I don't have much to offer, but it looks like the upper in the lower right corner could match the spacing from the window that the one on the other side of the range by adding 3 inches?

Is this what you are looking for?
Photobucket Pictures, Images and Photos


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RE: Help Marcolo lay out his cabinets, please!

What if you made the island narrower?

What if you used a 40x25 white and black enamel table top for part of the island like this
Photobucket

and something else on the sink end, perhaps with an integrated sink? SS, zinc, butcherblock (heh, I guess no integrated sink with that last one).

Perhaps that's too narrow for useful storage in the island, given that there's seating too, but I thought it might be worth contemplation since you're wondering about the island being too big.

hth

Here is a link that might be useful: vintage porcelain enamel table on ebay


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RE: Help Marcolo lay out his cabinets, please!

(For some reason this post has all the sentences very elongated to the sides which is a pain to read so I'm staying out) But

I did see one point - I wouldn't lengthen the island as you already have quite a bit going on at the bottom end of it. You have 2 entrances into it including one from the DR which would involve people carrying things in/out. You also have people coming in/out of your nook going to the fridge, etc and if you lengthen it you could create a pinch point from there.


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RE: Help Marcolo lay out his cabinets, please!

There has been a lot of discussion on various threads on aisle width vs. island size and I will say that my experience with 43 inches cab to cab, 41 counter to counter is it is fine for one, tight for 2, and a big pita for any more. My island cabinet is 28 inches deep with a 31 inch counter and 65/68 inches long, no prep sink but there is room if I had wanted. It is a good size space and I can get a lot done on it. You may want to think a bit more on your dimensions and how you will use the islands vs. how you will operate with the floor space.


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RE: Help Marcolo lay out his cabinets, please!

I had measured and tried out aisle widths but I'll do it again before I order.

The nook table will, I hope, have a porcelain enamel top but it was too much of a PITA to use on the island.

I'm trying to do a full-on first draft of a cab layout now.


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RE: Help Marcolo lay out his cabinets, please!

Here's my first attempt. I already see lots wrong. I just had to work through it to see what would fit where. Island is a big problem and so is the area right by the stove.


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RE: Help Marcolo lay out his cabinets, please!

It looks good, to me! I really like the shelves on the end of the island. Perfect for cookbooks or display and close to the banquette, for looking through recipes :)


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RE: Help Marcolo lay out his cabinets, please!

You really need 9" for a good pantry/spice pullout. A 6" can fit spices, but not some of the larger oil containers. And as good as the LeMans corner unit is, it's still a blind corner and any L shaped corner cabinet will beat it hands down for access, even without a lazy susan. It's great for bulky items like paper towels, pet food, bulk sacks of rice or flour, etc. I'd do the L shaped corner, and then use the other 15" next to the sink for either a 4 drawer stack for towels and other linens or that could be a prime location for a trash and recycling with a foot operated pedal. It's just across from your prep zone and next to the cleanup zone. Most lines offer a 15" two container pull out that would go there. I personally prefer the ones that are top mounted. For the corner, I seem to recall that you do not like lazy susans, but one can hold all manner of small electrics and pots. Or, as mentioned, without the susan, it can hold bulkier items.

Gotta have better numbers on what the exact blockage is to the right of the range to offer more useful advice other than don't get bogged down in symmetry since the island will shield the range view from the counter down. There really isn't any vantage point that you're going to be able to stand and point out that the lowers aren't matchy. As long as you get some form of pleasing symmetry for the uppers around the focal point of the range, whatever else you do will be fine as long as it works.

For the island, I understand wanting a stool so you can sit to prep for some items, but I have to challenge you as to the "need" for a second stool. If there's no stool there then just maybe your sister or other visitors will sit in the nook since it's right there. And, well, since there isn't a place for her to sit at the island, let her stand and become uncomfortable enough to go sit down! :)

I think you mentioned that that end of the kitchen has a bit of a view from the front door or other public space? If so, then a glass fronted bookcase/display case at the end of the island could be a good choice. If not, and you have another place for the cookbooks, I wouldn't add one. I'd want a drawer stack with inserts for all of my prep gadgets on the island. Make your own dividers for the garlic smasher, pastry scraper, pizza cutter, tongs, skim strainer, citrus zester, etc. Think of it like Julia's pegboard, but horizontal instead of vertical. Heck, instead of a wall next to the fridge there, I might think about doing a pegboard organizer as the side refrigerator panel. That could handle a lot of skillets and griddles and other flat cookware.


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RE: Help Marcolo lay out his cabinets, please!

Think of it like Julia's pegboard, but horizontal instead of vertical. Heck, instead of a wall next to the fridge there, I might think about doing a pegboard organizer as the side refrigerator panel. That could handle a lot of skillets and griddles and other flat cookware.

Livewire's comment make me think of one of my favorite Gardenweb kitchens, with its pegboard homage to Julia Child.

Histokitch's pegboard

Histokitch's Thread - oh that hood, those shelves, that light fixture


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RE: Help Marcolo lay out his cabinets, please!

Next to the dw drawer, Instead of a 3 drawer stack, make it 4 drawers . two
pulls. My 36 wide cab is 31 wide inside. Top drawer -2full sets of utensils, knives, gadgets. Second drawer has a n in drawer knife holder for maybe 14 knives and clips, rubber bands , scotch tapes, post its, address book, reamer, etc. Third is for foils , bags, wraps, Fourth is tupperware and mixing bowls. In this stack I have ost all the little stuff.

Remember tohave the lowers made with dividers which are up and down and go sideways or front to back. That way you wont have to nest most stuff, such as bakeware, pots, pans casseroles, IMPORTANT


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Wall cab depths

Are the base cabs along the sink wall 30'' deep? And the cabs along the range wall 24''?

Have you considered 15'' deep wall cabs on the sink wall? And for that matter, on down the range wall as well?


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RE: Help Marcolo lay out his cabinets, please!

What are your plans for the cabinets facing the nook? I keep coming back to them and wondering if they could shrink 3" to give you a little more room behind the range.


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RE: Help Marcolo lay out his cabinets, please!

Did you live with your mock up for awhile? Small kitchens don't have the luxery of wide aisles. Our range aisle is 37" counter edge to edge. I love it It's only a pivot from the island where I do all our prepping. Your measurements appear to be cabinet to cabinet. If you have the usual 1.5" overhang then your range aisle is 36" wide and even smaller with the range handles. Make sure you have enough room to open the oven doors. Is this going to be OK for you?

Where does your single stream recycling go? I wouldn't like people asking me to move so they can throw away their beverage container if it's under the prep sink.

I think the bookcase is a waste in a small kitchen. I would put a 12" cabinet with a door and top drawer next to the prep sink for cutting boards (I have a lot of cutting boards) and move down the 27" stack. Increase the two 24" cabs facing the nook to 30" each. OR you could add a 9" pullout for oils and such and make the 27" stack to 30".

I agree with livewireoak - you don't need symmetry since the island is blocking the view. I wouldn't worry about the cabinet to the right of the range. Make it as small as possible to get as much usuable space from your kitchen.

Finally, plan out where everything will live before you order your cabinets. This will determine if you need a stack of 3 or 4 drawers or a cabinet with a door.


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RE: Help Marcolo lay out his cabinets, please!

Remember to have the lowers made with dividers which are up and down and go sideways or front to back. That way you wont have to nest most stuff, such as bakeware, pots, pans casseroles, IMPORTANT

Westsider -- I'm not sure I understand what you mean. Could you explain or do you have a photo?


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RE: Help Marcolo lay out his cabinets, please!

CP, I'm not Westsider but I believe what is meant are drawer dividers like this Ikea one:
Photobucket

or this Rev a Shelf one:
Photobucket

Westsider, please do correct me if I'm wrong!

hth


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RE: Help Marcolo lay out his cabinets, please!

Marcolo- Do you have an elevation drawing for the banquette area? Are you planning to use arches or more of a 'window' look, for the two openings?

Also, how much room do you think you'll need on the island for prep? It looks like you have about 42" by the sink. Is that enough space? I only ask, because I'm debating about a small prep sink in my island...and I'd have about that much room.


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RE: Help Marcolo lay out his cabinets, please!

Bellsmom--Yes, I'm doing deeper uppers. Good call.

clueless--I'm going to look at the island dimensions again, and see if I can squeeze it just a little bit. Not sure which side needs room more, though.

pam--yeah, I know I need to account for overhangs. Cabs are custom so can be whatever size, within reason. I'd put recycling by the main sink, not the prep area.

The main reason why I thought of the bookshelves, besides useful function, is to balance out the overhang. I don't want this to say "island"--I want it to say '20s worktable. I still can't get a clear picture of the island in my head, because I hadn't planned on having one.

Working on a new cab arrangement, if I ever finish it.


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RE: Help Marcolo lay out his cabinets, please!

lavender, elevations haven't been done yet. Weren't necessary to get bids, but we'll be getting those done as well. Those will be arched openings.

One of the issues with the island is adequate prep space. If I use an 18" sink and also have a 12" overhang there, I'm not sure I've got enough prep space left. Still working on it.


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15'' uppers

Marcolo
I know you prefer attached door susans, but when you have time, take a quick look at a thread I posted on retrofitting susans into a corner cabinet in 15'' uppers. They can be adjusted up and down for maximum storage, minimum waste vertical clearance. Link is below.

I do realize you probably are not planning 15'' uppers around the corner. Don't think it can be made to work if 15'' meets 12''. But maybe worth a quick look anyway. Skim through the verbiage. Pics tell the story.

Sandra

Here is a link that might be useful: Corner susans in 15'' uppers


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RE: Help Marcolo lay out his cabinets, please!

Sandra, I'm not sure whether I'll have a setup like that, but I wanted to tell you, you should seriously look into making and selling those.


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RE: Help Marcolo lay out his cabinets, please!

Marcolo- That's my concern with the island prep sink, too. Not much room left for prep.

Just an idea (may not work for you, at all) but have you ever considered the pantry being to the right of the range (past the dead space) and the fridge moving down, with the prep sink next to it? It would be handy to the fridge and the dining room. Something like this?

From Cottage house plans


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Window

Also, I meant to ask...can you have a slightly larger window, over the main sink? It would look so much brighter, IMHO.

And, if you don't have a sink on the island...you could use more of a freestanding/furniture type of piece, if you like. Maybe something a little more vintage? :)


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RE: Help Marcolo lay out his cabinets, please!

My island top's 59" long, 39" deep. I've never gotten around to putting in the prep sink we plumbed for on the right side of the island from where I prep, so I'm a little limited on speaking from experience; however--I never prep where the sink would go. That end is always unused--except for setting out food at parties. If I need more space than my basic 3+ feet or so, it's usually to the counter behind me next to the stove. Another project and/or cook if needed goes on the counter to the left of the stove, or even the outside of the island at holidays. But main prep never stretches to 59". FWIW. :)


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RE: Help Marcolo lay out his cabinets, please!

Psssst, marcolo

Go to photobucket and resize the pic of the layout in your first post. A little smaller please.
Then posts will stop their maddening slide off the screen to the right.


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RE: Help Marcolo lay out his cabinets, please!

Here's round 2. Still not happy but I'll keep playing.


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RE: Help Marcolo lay out his cabinets, please!

celtic, I've resized that photo four times. The forum doesn't want to cooperate for some reason.


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Re: your corner susan: The devil makes me do it

I know now is not the time to quibble.
And don't hold me to accuracy of the drawing or my numbers below
But
I can't help posting this comparison of the area you can have if you do NOT have an attached door susan in your base cab corner, but instead go with a custom made super susan built to accommodate the asymmetrical cabinet. There is still waste area at the back of the 30'' cabinet, but just compare the size of the susans. I bet you can nearly double the area.

A good cabinet maker should be able to make these susans which, I think are 40'' give or take in diameter!

You don't need to answer this post, but stow it in the back of your mind when you get down to nitty gritty details like this designing your susan.
Photobucket


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RE: Help Marcolo lay out his cabinets, please!

Bellsmom you never cease to amaze me. You are such a helpful contributor to this forum!

Yes, I absolutely have to have that discussion with my cabinet maker and maximize that space. I still have to make a final decision about the 30" cabs--I am not sure how useful they are there. They do allow a continuous countertop line between the mudroom area, which is narrower, and the kitchen, which is wider. And I might be able to get a good shelf back there. But everything has to balance out.

What's killing me now is that I just can't "get" what to do with the island. I know I want a sink, and trash has to be there somewhere, but then I'm stuck.


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Sink in a 30'' deep cab

Thanks for the comment. I frequently feel I am being a PIA, but I tend to just blunder on.

Just thinkin' about your 30'' run. If the drain is in the rear of the sink and could be routed quickly to the back of a 30'' deep by 30'' wide cab, I bet you could have at least 2 30'' drawers of more or less conventional (24'') depth underneath the sink. Might be that the top drawer would have to be shorter and less deep than the bottom one. Worth considering maybe. Can't see why it might not work. A lot better, IMO, than the conventional tangle of storage under a sink. And you'd still have access to the pipes by just pulling out the drawers.

Sandra


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RE: Help Marcolo lay out his cabinets, please!

I'm late to the party, so I'm still reading all of the posts... In regards to the Microwave, how often do you use it? We put ours in a pantry cabinet. It had to be a smaller MW. It's fine for us because we don't seem to use it that much. It wasn't a pullout pantry, but I feel like you could finagle that, I'm just thinking about the cord...


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RE: Help Marcolo lay out his cabinets, please!

The drain will be on the side, rather than the rear--there are fewer options with cast iron sinks. But that should leave 1 side free. I'd rather see cab doors there because I'm doing a vintage look. Great idea, though! Maybe I could do a pullout that's as wide as the free space under the sink?

chris, I use the MW fairly often to reheat and even to cook--heat up broth or melt butter I forgot to soften. I'm assuming the MW would be stationary in the pantry cab with openings above or below.


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Island design ideas

Probably you have seen the ''White Zen Kitchen''.

But take a second look at the design of her island as seen in the 5th (I think) picture. You might be able to adapt some of the ideas here.
You would use different colors and surfaces, of course.
Something like this might give the table look you want.

Here is a link that might be useful: White zen kitchen island


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Correction

It's the FOURTH picture. Wish we could edit a post after it's posted!!


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RE: Help Marcolo lay out his cabinets, please!

Imagine the island is an open table.

Now, where do you want the trash can, for instance? I'd personally put it right under the side of the small sink where you'll be prepping, for most effective sweeping of turnip tops into trash. Many is the time I wished for a second pullout trash under my prep sink in the old kitchen, and I'll be putting one in for sure in the new.


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RE: Help Marcolo lay out his cabinets, please!

Circus, do you mean under the sink but opening down? There will be a GD there, but I suppose a small trash pullout would fit. But I think when I sweep I do it over a counter, not the empty sink hole, no?


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RE: Help Marcolo lay out his cabinets, please!

Just a couple of thoughts on prep sink location and use. I have had two island corner prep sinks, with slightly different configurations due to the constraints of the neighboring cabinets so I wanted to share pros and cons of each.

The first is a 15 inch rohl shaws. There were issues with that corner of the granite (broken) so we used the sink for the corner. The faucet is in the position described above as inside corner and allowed prep from either side. The sink itself was large enough to accomodate my strainer and my smaller soup pot, and the faucet had enough of a hose on it to fill pots from either side while they sat on the counter. The prep with this sink was mostly left to right, rarely used it from the short end of the island. You will also note that it is right next to the main sink, which gave me considerable pause when planning, but we used that little sink a huge amount.
advantium

The second one is in our current place and the reason for the prep sink is more like your current situation: Main sink is just too far from the range. In this one I wanted the large oven (my AGA has four smaller ovens and occasionally I just need/want something bigger) in the end of the island so the prep sink had to share a bit. For this sink, the prep is all Right to left which was initially a little awkward for me, but I don't even think about it now. The sink is the largest I could fit and still have room for the plumbing between it and the oven, and you can see the forest of items that accompany this. There is no way I can use it from both sides, and occasionally still wish (in an "oh well" sort of way, not critical) that I had access to the sink from the end of the island. But I don't. Mostly over that.

Photobucket

So while I think it is possible for the sink to go anywhere on your island, the reasons I chose a corner were so I would have a longer work space run and have the sink as close as possible to the stove. In your plan you could probably move it anywhere on the on the stove side of the island, but I guess if it were me I would consider the corner, with the inside faucet so you can access from the end or shove prepped stuff that way (or vice versa).

I also second the verical cab for cutting boards. I have a pullout cutting board adjacent to my sink but still pull cutting boards out of my vertical storage every time we prep.


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RE: Help Marcolo lay out his cabinets, please!

If you want trash on the island primarily for prep refuse, do you compost and how about a compost drawer like this one from someone's kitchen here (I'm sorry for forgetting who!):
Photobucket
or one like Florantha's which has a pull-out cutting board next to the drawer to sweep into.

If you put these on the end of the island, wouldn't they create an effective 'velvet rope' to interlopers? And doesn't take up as much room as a trash pullout.

Of course, not helpful if you really want a full size trash in the island.

hth


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RE: Help Marcolo lay out his cabinets, please!

M - yes, sorry, I meant a pullout trash to the side of the prep sink, so that you can pull it open and sweep right down into it from the counter that's next to the sink. I'd find that more useful than the position you've given it across from the big sink in your proposal.

Was checking out David T Smith and here is an example of an island that feels more tabley than most:


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RE: Help Marcolo lay out his cabinets, please!

I recall seeing a table-style island in a design mag some years ago. It had a sink, and through some clever bit of carpentry they had run the plumbing inside the legs of the island (or maybe more accurately, they ran the plumbing along side the real legs, then trimmed it out to conceal the plumbing and make it look like a chunkier table leg). Something to consider? Sorry I don't have a pic.


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RE: Help Marcolo lay out his cabinets, please!

OK--Another attempt. Point out whatever you want, but please tell me first if the island makes a lick of sense.

This setup includes one paper towel holder in the island, none on the perimeter. So you have to turn around to grab a P.T. from the cleanup sink, but just scootch down from the prep sink.

That side also includes a drawer opening toward the main sink with wraps, foils, plastics etc. so I can use them while prepping (as I do) and they are also handy for cleanup. The 18" drawer width is fine for that but I don't know what to put below it.

The trash also opens toward the sink. It's an 18" cab. Maybe recycling can go elsewhere or is that big enough?

I've also got to revisit an 18" prep sink. I did a cutout and it looks huge. In the Boston area you aren't allowed to see any sinks in person, unless they're at HD.


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RE: Help Marcolo lay out his cabinets, please!

An 18" prep sink will usually have at least an inch to an inch and a half flange around it, making the interior 15"-16" round. That's what the opening in the counter will be, so it won't take up 18" of counter space.

If you do want the island to look like a table, you can use a shallow tail piece and attach the P trap immediately to it, and then run the Studor vent adjacent and the drain can run down one of the legs and be boxed in to look like a solid piece. It needs an EXPERT plumber and cabinet installer, but that leaves it looking like a console, with a thicker apron. It will give you room for more stools and take away the storage underneath unless you want to do something like a slatted wood base on which you place decorative cannisters or appliances, etc. You see that with very modern kitchens a lot more than you do with traditional ones, so you might check with any local Euro showrooms to see if they have anyone who can pull it off for you.



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RE: Help Marcolo lay out his cabinets, please!

lwo, you're right about the flange. I had a brain cramp when I cut out the sink shape. The interior is only 15"-ish, so undermounted, it should be fine.

I love the look of the really elevated island/tables but need the storage. I may do an extra high toekick, or not. I've also seen people simply use glamor-plated drain pipes and supply lines, like with a console sink, and simply expose them as they go down. It looks good as long as the island is only a bit elevated off the floor.

Is it reasonable to keep towels behind the main sink, so you have to turn around when you wash your hands?


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RE: Help Marcolo lay out his cabinets, please!

Marcolo: I don't think it's insane to have the PT holder where you've got it. But I'd put dishtowels in the 15" cab to the right of the main sink. At least for me, I'm more likely to use PT when cleaning up messes on my prep area and a cloth towel when drying dishes or my hands.

Where are you planning to keep things such as oils, soy sauce, PAM, and the like? I like mine near the range, rather than in a pantry cabinet. And where will stuff like baking powder, dry yeast, extracts, etc. go? You've apparently got some empty drawer space...just wondering if you've accounted for this stuff. Also rolling pins, cookie cutters, pie weights, silicone baking mats, etc.? Maybe in the 18" island stack, under the foil, wraps, etc?


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RE: Help Marcolo lay out his cabinets, please!

I'd start hating having to turn around to get a paper towel, esp if my hands or something was a drippy mess. Can you mount a holder on the inside of your big sink door?

You posed the question a couple times now so it seems that the placement is bugging you.

IMHO. The rest of the layout is looking good!


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RE: Help Marcolo lay out his cabinets, please!

melissastar--yes, that cab is perfect for paper towels. I think wraps and foils, too.

I'm still thinking about oils and such. I am putting food ingredients right in the glass cabs--I like to see them. I hate looking at boxes of prepared food but enjoy seeing canisters of baking powder and boxes of Kosher salt. It's not just a philosophical difference either--ever notice how differently the packages are designed for prepared foods? Big hideous photos of "serving suggestions?"

I might bite the bullet and put extra pt to the right of the sink anyway.

So here was my big revelation: Why can't I have trash pullout that's wider than it is deep? Works much better for my layout.

Here are two new attempts. One is for two island seats, the other for just one. Which is better? Or should the single seat island be at the bottom? If I do it's only a switch of the shallow cabs on the left.

I stuck a trash grommet in there. I think this can work but I need a good, tight-sealing lid that doesn't look ridiculous in a vintage kitchen.


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Random thoughts on Wednesday's island

OOPS. You posted two more drawings while I was working on this. Not sure just what is on them. This is based on the Weds., 21:20 drawing.

I am going to post it anyway, even though it may no longer apply.
Photobucket

Hope there is something useful here.


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RE: Help Marcolo lay out his cabinets, please!

THANK YOU! Good thoughts--I already incorporated some. Like moving the PT.

I think I'll put wraps and foils in that narrow cab next to the cleanup sink. I usually need them either when prepping or during cleanup, so they'll be convenient to that. Yes, they're far from the fridge there but I think it'll be OK.

I keep going back and forth between stool at the end and stool(s) on the side. The aisle is not big enough for a full kitchen stadium-type seating setup, with stools all lined up like an audience; nor do I want that. So the bottom seems sensible for seating, including for prep, as you say. However, that really cramps my prep space on the island.

I sit to prep only when I'm doing something very repetitive (huge bag of fava beans) or when I get really tired after a marathon cooking session and need to sit for a few minutes.


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RE: Help Marcolo lay out his cabinets, please!

I prefer one seat, but I think it should be at the bottom, where there is more aisle space.

I have to admit that I am anti-island, but particularly in a space that is otherwise so retro --- nook, arches, icebox look. So I vote for anything that make it take up less visual space, and looks less modern, eg I would expose the sink plumbing.

BTW, when i designed my kitchen, i opened up every drawer and cabinet of my existing kitchen and photographed it. Then I numbered the photographs and labelled where each would go in my new space. I found that very useful in configuring the space.


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RE: Help Marcolo lay out his cabinets, please!

Do you have to have the sink, on the island? It seems to be taking some of the 'vintage look' away from the kitchen. A smaller prep table would probably be more appropriate, but maybe not as functional.

Did you see any possibility with moving the pantry and having the prep sink by the fridge? Also, I'm still not sure why people can't lean on the table/island or sit at the banquette...isn't that where you want people to sit?


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Island/table

Maybe something like this? Have a smaller work table/island, with a butcher block at one end...with room for a stool to slide under? That would break up the long island, which doesn't seem very vintage, somehow. Maybe that's just me, though.

From Cottage house plans


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RE: Help Marcolo lay out his cabinets, please!

I'm going to put in one more plug for a more vintage-y looking island, seconding Lavender Lass. Then I'll shut up. I know you said you need the storage, but in LWO's 1st pic from Wed at 21:58, it looks like there's a lot of storage in that island with the stacked drawers. Yes, not as much as with full cabinets. But you've seemed a bit ambivalent about the aesthetics of the island and I keep thinking you'd be happier with something that gave the illusion of being unfitted (although unlike Lavender, I'm not bothered by the sink as long as you have legs). Anyway, I'm suggesting you make a complete assessment of your actual storage needs before you reject the idea completely. Even without the island and taking into account the dead cabinet, your kitchen looks to have much more useful storage than mine.


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RE: Help Marcolo lay out his cabinets, please!

cawaps, it's not the total amount of storage, it's getting storage where I need. The problem with LWO's picture is that there's no place for a trash pullout in it. The amount of additional storage that my reno is adding is really not that vast when you focus only on the prep and cooking zones--in fact, due to various geometrical oddities, there are places where I'm losing some.

I could do short legs, and I'll bring that up with the cab maker.

I really don't want to be stuck with only one sink. I'm not worried that my kitchen won't be vintage enough. I'm more worried that the next buyer will think it'll be unrenovated since 1924.


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RE: Help Marcolo lay out his cabinets, please!

Just to demonstrate that fairly elaborate worktables aren't totally foreign to the 1920s--that was the dawn of built-in cabinetry.

And no, I can't find any source for modern swing-out stools. I wouldn't trust the vintage ones, the mod ones are too mod, and it would add a fortune in extra construction for support. Of course I thought about it.


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RE: Help Marcolo lay out his cabinets, please!

For crying out loud what happened to the pic?


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RE: Help Marcolo lay out his cabinets, please!

Wow, clearly before NKBA aisle guidelines had been widely disseminated. : )
Great picture. Does anyone make metal tops?

Hmm, I wasn't thinking of resale value, but surely 90+% would love to see an island with seating and a sink in it. And, of course, form follows function.


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RE: Help Marcolo lay out his cabinets, please!

Was perusing the blog of David T Smith workshops and saw this island. Thought it might give you some more visual fodder. Photobucket


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RE: Help Marcolo lay out his cabinets, please!

I'm wondering if I should model the island's look on the base of a Hoosier cabinet. Although I had been imagining something longer and taller in the leg.


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RE: Help Marcolo lay out his cabinets, please!

Marcolo- Nice pictures!

My Paint skills are not good, but that's supposed to be a prep sink, by the fridge. If you'd prefer it on the island, I'm sure you can find a way to make it look more vintage :)


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RE: Help Marcolo lay out his cabinets, please!

Maybe, instead of replicating the Hoosier's lines, it would be more effective to simply echo the idea with a detail on the sort of island you've had in mind?


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A quick and sloppy PhotoShopped island

This is pretty, but it kept insisting that I keep it symmetrical. The lack of flexibility and efficiency in this doors and drawers arrangement would drive me nuts.
Photobucket
But I can see designing an island with
1. these legs (they are really nice and just shout vintage)
2. a soapstone or leathered or brushed black granite top?
3. these pulls, knobs, and hinges (they, like the legs, are perfect)
4. modified (rounded) shaker doors?
5. maybe slab drawer fronts?
6. would inset doors and drawers work?

Can you make it look good if it is NOT symmetrical?


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RE: Help Marcolo lay out his cabinets, please!

O.M.G. You are awesome, Bellsmom.

While it looks gorgeous as a symmetrical piece, it's very '20s to have a worktable with pretty random drawer and door sizes and placements. They were trying to be all "scientific" and efficient--think of how real Hoosiers were built. So with those legs it could still look terrific without being so mirror perfect. Maybe the front is symmetrical but the other sides are not?

How would I fit seating into something like that? I know everyone wants me to put seating on the end but that really cramps my prep storage and counterspace.

BTW yes, the top will be soapstone or a look-alike. The island will be painted a barn-y red.


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RE: Help Marcolo lay out his cabinets, please!

If you put in seating only for 1 and put it on the end, the sides of the island could look like Bellsmom's pic (the sides of the seating space would be panelled).

If you put the seating on the side, then the side of the island facing the range could look like Bellsmom's pic, but the seating side would have to look more like your pic with the swing-out stool. I think you'd need an extra leg or two on that side (as with the swing out seat pic). I think it would look better with the seat in the middle than at the end, though. Drawers, seat, drawers. You could put the hoosier trim under the drawers, with legs supporting the inside corners, and the seat in-between. The seat would be directly opposite the prep space and range.


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RE: Help Marcolo lay out his cabinets, please!

A little different look, but here is a picture of an island in my inspiration kitchen
from Better Homes and Gardens, Fall 1996.
I love the vintage feel. But it still has a lot of modern function:

Photobucket

I ended up running my island cabinets all the way to the floor because I wanted more storage. But with "feet" and an open toekick area I created a bit of this feel.


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RE: Help Marcolo lay out his cabinets, please!

Yes, francoise, that's a lot of space to sacrifice. Do you have a pic of your own island handy?


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RE: Help Marcolo lay out his cabinets, please!

I can't figure out how to link to the pic in my link below, but look at this 1950 newspaper ad and the Westinghouse Rancho range. It has what looks like a door below the cooktop but it conceals an open space for a basket or stool. If you did the same thing with a pocket door that slid back, and a pull out cutting board above where the drawer was, you'd have your seating area when you needed it, but it could be hidden behind the door and disappear into the island when it was more convenient to not have it.

Here is a link that might be useful: Westinghouse Rancho Range


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RE: folding stool

Oh yeah, if the stool were folding, it wouldn't take up all of the space behind the door, and you'd have room for something else there as well.


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RE: Help Marcolo lay out his cabinets, please!

Not great pictures, but here are a couple of photos of my island:

Photobucket

Photobucket


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RE: Help Marcolo lay out his cabinets, please!

Not great pictures, but here are a couple of photos of my island:

Photobucket

Photobucket


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RE: Help Marcolo lay out his cabinets, please!

Thanks, francoise! Looks great.

I'm seeing that two stools kittie-corner from each other are going to take up a lot of room. Unless I box in the rear corner for usable space. I do want an apron like yours--even thicker, with a narrow drawer in it.

A folding stool and a breadboard is a terrific idea. I need to figure this out.


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RE: Help Marcolo lay out his cabinets, please!

Yes, a drawer in the apron is a great idea. Our apron is just wasted space.


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RE: Help Marcolo lay out his cabinets, please!

What about those little Zen stools? they take up about the least amount of space. (of course a nice old one with patina)

If the seating space is not for you, Id think long and hard about exactly how often you will have a guest who will want to chat with you while you cook, and would not be happy as a clam sitting in the nook with a cup of tea while you do prep.

When we bought our house it had a 19' long kitchen island. The POs had these two little stools, and there was no lip on the countertop. I was surprised that people still sat in these things and thought it was fine. And because the seat is not round, they scoot away so easily....

Here is a link that might be useful: let 'em sit on this


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RE: Help Marcolo lay out his cabinets, please!

Here is a vintage swing-out stool at Urban Remains.

Here is a link that might be useful: reclaimed swing-out stool


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RE: Help Marcolo lay out his cabinets, please!

Those are very space-conscious but I want something that would've been in a dream 1920s kitchen.

Something like this, but painted and with just a tad less turning (though not no turning):

Alternative approach is something like this, in a stool, also red:


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Backside of island

Here's what I might do:
Photobucket

A niche in the back side where a drawer stack could have gone. One drawer at the top, then an opening. Wouldn't have to be deep enough for the stool to totally disappear under. Just knee room so you could get pretty close.


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RE: Help Marcolo lay out his cabinets, please!

Cute! If the island is 6' long, we'd probably have the whole middle third empty, a drawer above, and then two side cupboards also with a drawer above.

I just remembered I do have a pic of an authentic '20s island. I don't think the lower height end would work for me, at least not so big.

A breadboard from the end would be fine for an overhang but I have absolutely no place to store the island otherwise.


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RE: Help Marcolo lay out his cabinets, please!

OMG, that island looks totally OTK. Maybe it IS timeless....

Where do you get these fab photos? And WTH is that contraption under the clock?


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Stool niche width

When I have time, I'll post a pic of what I did for a sitting area for those marathon cutting, chopping chores (like when someone gives me a bushel of corn!). It involves a folding table made out of two exterior rail spindles and a piece of plywood that fits securely across the front of the sink and stores in the pantry when I don't need it. Works well for me.

No way do I think you need 24'' out of your 72'' island for a stool niche. I'd have to mock it up, but 18'' ought to be plenty and 15'' might barely work (you just need room at the bottom for the legs, and with the open area below, you don't need the whole leg spread to fit into the open area. You just need room for the upper 2/3's or so of the stool and, when you are sitting there, your knees. You don't need the kind of space that side-by-side diners need.


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RE: Help Marcolo lay out his cabinets, please!

I think I do need that much, especially if I'm using the surface to work. If it were just for the stool, that'd be one thing, but that's only a 42" aisle on the side so I have to be careful about clearances. Plus, all I'm losing on the side are shallow 12" cabinet space anyway--not that important.

That's my critical choice--whether the stool goes at the end (where it eats into prep space) or along the side (where it eats into the aisle).


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RE: Help Marcolo lay out his cabinets, please!

How about this:

Are you planning on seated prep when lots of people are around, like a casual entertaining thing? Or more just when you are alone, or have just a person or two hanging out just chilling?

With a lot of people around a stool at the end would be out of traffic as well as allow you to converse with people seated at the table. If you are mostly alone for prep, I'd go for on the side since you have more prep space and won't need to be concerned about traffic as much.

Plus since you were not planning on an island at all, this is all kind of bonus prep space. So either way you are getting more prep space than you thought, so go with the placement that works best for when you are seated.

That may not be a helpful train of thought, but eventually someone will say the magic thoughts that resonate with you, and you will achieve decision zen with the answer suddenly clear. It already sounds like a terrific space, and whatever you decide is very likely to make you happier than your are with what's there now.


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RE: Help Marcolo lay out his cabinets, please!

Marcolo, I am late to this party, and still grateful for all the help you've offered on this site. The layout looks really good to me, and the finished kitchen is bound to be a wonderful space. If anything were to change, I would make a plea for a larger prep sink on the island, that could accommodate say, both a colander and an ice baths for shocking parboiled vegetables you've just taken off the range, etc -- maybe a sink that has a cutting board that fits over part of it would mean not having to sacrifice so much work surface, and you still would have more a more functional sink. I too vote for the trash pullout on the island, and a smaller one under the utility sink. If the utility sink drain is offset that becomes really useful space.

And I'm wondering whether your cookbook collection, which in my imagination is prodigious, could migrate from the sunroom and line the breakfast nook as if it were a carrel, since that is the obvious cozy place to settle in with cookbooks and a pot of tea. Or a hip flask of something stronger.

I do think people like to sit at the island, but it is good to be able to push the stools entirely underneath when you're not using them. Especially when the aisles are a little narrow, which in general I consider a good, efficient thing. Your kitchen will be unusually efficient and cozy.

I find the kitchen island forces me to be more disciplined about finishing prep work before starting to cook, which makes the cooking go more smoothly -- no more scorched onions while slivering garlic, etc: the separation between hot and cold work has been helpful.

Love the vintage photographs you've posted. Looking forward to more
Lynn


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RE: Help Marcolo lay out his cabinets, please!

francoise47, where did you get those stools?


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RE: Help Marcolo lay out his cabinets, please!

Hi Linelle,

(Marcolo -- sorry to hijack -- just want to answer Linelle.)

I purchased the stools (pictured above in my kitchen) on the Wayfair website.
They are made (in China) by a company called "American Heritage".
Yes, so it goes in the strange new globalized world.

I bought them in white and painted them a color called "Brinjal"
to pick up some of the colors in my curtains.
They also come in black and dark wood.
They are very sturdy and well made with a nice swivel.
It looks like the price has gone up in the past year.
I think I paid $119 each.

Here is a link that might be useful: American Heritage stool on Wayfair


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RE: Help Marcolo lay out his cabinets, please!

Thanks, all.

I'm going to meet with the architect tomorrow. I don't know if we'll get as far as island layout at this meeting but I do want to discuss the issues that everybody has raised.

I prefer to do serious prep alone. In fact it's going to take some serious getting used to when I face into the room. I like to concentrate and it kinda drives me nuts when people jabber when I'm trying to chiffonade or just plain measure. However, the traffic jam comes when I'm trying to do last-minute prep for a holiday or dinner party--the things you can't do in advance. Maybe the stool on the far side would make people feel like that's their space, and leave me to mine?

Of course, the architect might say, "No stools for you!"

I'd love to put my cookbook collection in the nook but I don't think I'll have room. It's tight in there as it is.


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RE: Help Marcolo lay out his cabinets, please!

Marcolo

Just a suggestion to put the stool on the stove side of the island and move the prep sink closer to it. Then, YOU can sit and guests won't feel like it is THEIR space. It'll be the chef's sitting spot.....although you might feel like a teacher at a desk in front of the classroom.

This has been a terrific thread - so many smart ideas for our own kitchen remodel.


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My solution to stool sitting

Here is one photo and a link to my thread about the thingee if you want more info. Don't think this is what you want, but sometimes odd ideas elicit something that works.
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The folding table sticks out 12'' from the cabinet. The stool is 15'' wide at the base. Both are usually stored elsewhere.
The dog, named Bell because she is dingy, is my all-time funniest beast, an 80 lb. rescue labradoodle that makes me laugh out loud more often than Stephen Colbert. She is permanently stored at my side.
Hope your conference is productive. Is it today?

Sandra

Here is a link that might be useful: Thread on folding work table


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RE: Help Marcolo lay out his cabinets, please!

Marcolo how did it go with the architect?


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RE: Help Marcolo lay out his cabinets, please!

Good but exhausting. We went over everything. Additions make me scatterbrained. I'm halfway through discussing island layout and suddenly I remember to ask if the eave overhang violates the setback.

We squeezed a couple of extra inches of room out of the nook. It really won't seat 4 adults in full comfort but for practical purposes, that's OK. There are only 2 people in the house now, and most people who buy in this 'hood are either childless couples/empty nesters or else families with really young (i.e., short) kids, and the nook will work for them. Anyway, my kitchen is going to be so insane the nook will be the least of it.

She seemed to really like my ideas for the fake-old-fridge and pantry area. And I have to say, I was pretty darn pleased with myself, because it all fit together so well. I'm getting quotes from a metal shop later this week, and I'm hoping not to get what my GC calls "pain in the *(&@ pricing."

In the meanwhile, I'm spending the week surrounded by other contractors repairing a disaster of a project completed a year ago. And another disaster completed two years ago. Really boosts my confidence for the kitchen reno.


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RE: Help Marcolo lay out his cabinets, please!

Hey, Marcolo,

In case you missed my message (which fell off the top almost immediately, I have no idea how this site works), I am going with Dutch Wood cabinets and having them shipped up to the Boston area. I couldn't stomach the prices of local cabinetmakers in the end, so I'm taking the risk. Just wanted to let you know in case you haven't selected a cabinetmaker yet and want to see how my gamble works out.

Sorry to hijack this thread, just wanted to make sure you got the message.


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RE: Help Marcolo lay out his cabinets, please!

That is so not a hijack, soibean. Thank you so much. Please do let me know how Dutch Wood works out for you. I think I've found a cabinetmaker but haven't signed on the dotted line yet.

Who's responsible for measuring?


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RE: Help Marcolo lay out his cabinets, please!

My GC will be responsible for measuring. As it turns out, he prefers to do it that way, so it was not an issue. He spoke to Jason at Dutch Wood directly to satisfy himself on the quality of the cabinets and has given me the thumbs up on working with them.

Sounds like your timeline is pretty close to ours, if you've already selected a cabinetmaker. We are breaking ground in a week, hoping the rain holds off till after the foundation is poured. If all goes well, we'll be done before year end. I will keep you posted on how it goes.


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RE: Help Marcolo lay out his cabinets, please!

It's not your swing out stool, but I thought you might like to see this!

Here is a link that might be useful: New old looking stool


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RE: Help Marcolo lay out his cabinets, please!

Marcolo, I came across this kitchen and it made me think of you.

Here is a link that might be useful: Ashli Mizell Ardmore kitchen


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RE: Help Marcolo lay out his cabinets, please!

Thanks, williamsem, it's on my list now! athomeinva, very cool kitchen. I also spotted a peacock blue couch in there that looks kinda like mine!

It has taken me two full weeks to mark up my notes to send to my cab guy. Hoping to send them off today. Maybe I should wait so I don't give him indigestion during Thanksgiving.


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