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Small Kitchen layout help

Posted by 1by1 (My Page) on
Wed, Sep 4, 13 at 16:44

We are redoing our kitchen and are more design than practical oriented. We are installing the Ikea Abstrak (glossy white) cabinets. Appliances are 30" Liebherr fridge, 24" Miele steam/convection, Fisher and Paykel dishwasher drawers and a 30" Miele induction cooktop. We are thinking small footprint with clean lines. For a hood, I am fabricating a simple box around a 30" Kobe insert. I know that I need and want a 36" hood but after a week of debate, my DW still thinks it is too big.
Option 1: If I keep the cooktop and sink on separate walls, there appears to be more space for cooking and what not. However, we currently have almost this same configuration and the space next to the sink above the dishwasher is never utilized. This layout would also require us to vent out through the roof and we are hoping to put small chotskyies on top of the hood box.
Option 2: Put the sink and cooktop on the same wall. This would require moving the window but that would be a plus because it would enhance the view. We could also vent straight out the wall rather than going up to the ceiling. This layout would create a larger counter space "landing zone" on one wall.
Attached are some renderings of the two options. Everything is not perfectly to scale as there are limitations with the online tool but it is pretty close. Looking for advice as to pros and cons of doing this.


 photo seperate_zpscd1aface.png
 photo seperate3d_zps59552202.png

 photo together_zps94e966c4.png
 photo together3d_zps5599c1ba.png


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Small Kitchen layout help

Are you having upper cabinets on the sink wall at all? If you aren't, then why not enlarge your window on that wall to enhance the view? It feels like you'd have no room to move with the stove and sink together on that wall. And then the DWD between them, too? Question: why no corner cabinet left of the sink? Seem to be giving up a nice chunk of counter space in a small kitchen?


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RE: Small Kitchen layout help

I have to run, but: I'd move the window JUST to get the better view. Having the stove right next to the scullery would drive me crazy, but you don't want to copy a layout that wasted counter for you before, so keep trying out answers.

I have your stove hood--designed by me in a no doubt more traditional style, but very similar. The bottom of the hood sticks out as far as it needs to, then steps back on front and both sides to form a level display shelf for "chotskyies," 7-1/2 inches deep on the front, 2 inches on each side. Could have been deeper on the sides, but I felt the shallower boxed in flu that runs to the ceiling needed the width. My stove is 36" wide, the lower hood box 42", and I wouldn't want it an inch narrower. It's just minimum width to look right now, IMO. Although my lower shelf area is painted wood, the flue box is painted drywall, like the walls elsewhere, which makes a nice serene flow that would lend itself very nicely to a modern look.

My DIL LOVES the Abstrak cabinets, our son is coming around, and I like them a lot too,. Great choice. :)


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RE: Small Kitchen layout help

The layout isn't very clear about some of the details...is that a 33" doorway b/w the DW and the tall cabs? Is it the only doorway to that room?

Are those other doorways flanking the cooktop in the first layout? If so, it looks like your cabinets run into the doorway openings.... Are they the only doorways to the rooms?

Is there a doorway in the "right" wall? If so, is it the only doorway into the room?

Could you post a layout with the doorways and windows (if more than just over the sink) clearly marked? Also, tell us if there's an actual door, the door's swing, and where the doorway leads to.

If I had to choose b/w the two, I'd take the second but I'd switch the range and sink so the range would be closer to the additional counterspace and give a bit more separation b/w the Cleanup Zone and Prep & Cooking Zones.

A layout of the full first floor (or whatever floor the kitchen is on) would be helpful as well.

Here is a link that might be useful: New To Kitchens? Posting Pics? Read Me!


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RE: Small Kitchen layout help

I like this kitchen...would something like this work? The window and hood look very modern, but I'm not an expert :)

Here is a link that might be useful: Link to kitchen


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RE: Small Kitchen layout help

Thanks for input so far:
buehl, I will answer your post first because I did not describe the layout. The room has no doors only openings and is almost completely open on one side. I will post a pic with openings marked.

deedles, we are having no upper cabinets we have a run of cabinets on the wall with the fridge that are going floor to ceiling. Left of the sink and stove would be about 6 inches of cabinet but you are next to an opening not a wall and roughly 30 inches of counter between the two.

rosie,I will have my DW read your post about the hood dimensions. I personally am 100% on board with having a hood actually work the way it was intended by having proper size and depth.

buehl, I posted a layout with doorway specs. I should have done that initially. If I switch the sink and cooktop I might have to put the window on the other side or the sink would face a wall. I am not sure if code in LA allows a window over an induction top. The window in the center (option 1) is where it currently is and unless I move it neither sink nor cooktop would have a view.

lavender_lass, we think the kitchen would work it has a similar feel to our other rooms.


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RE: Small Kitchen layout help

My apologies, the original plans did not have the names on the location of the appliances. Here are the revised.
 photo option1_zps53513b58.jpg

 photo option2_zps291aeac7.jpg


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RE: Small Kitchen layout help

double post

This post was edited by 1by1 on Thu, Sep 5, 13 at 2:55


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RE: Small Kitchen layout help

in the home,from the hallway, can't you explore making access to laundry room as well route traffic to living room with a turn in the hall,or something. that way you could close the laundry opening from kitchen,making an L with the 2 counter runs,at least.


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RE: Small Kitchen layout help

Would sink and DW fit between the two openings on the bottom wall?

Sink would face a wall, but if you have window and cooktop as in option 2, prep area would face the window. Top of DW can be used as a landing space for fridge and oven.


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RE: Small Kitchen layout help

Do you have a rough layout of the first floor - it doesn't have to be fancy or even exactly to-scale...we just need to see all the rooms and doorways and how they relate to each other and the kitchen.


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RE: Small Kitchen layout help

Relocate the door to the laundry/pantry and turn the corner with a corner cabinet. That will give you a lot more room between the sink and range, which is the busiest spot in any kitchen.


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RE: Small Kitchen layout help

I like the ones that have the sink and cooktop on the same wall.

I would be extremely tempted to make the cabinets on the 56ish" wall a cart instead. I'd be rotate it during big preps so I had access to a larger counter.

Another way of accomplishing the same thing would be a cart of just the counter or maybe even arranging something like a 12" deli board as backsplash that dropped down when the entire countertop was pulled forward 12".


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RE: Small Kitchen layout help

I had the same idea as live_wire_oak. If you can access the laundry/pantry from the hall, that would make a big difference in your small kitchen with many doors.


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RE: Small Kitchen layout help

I'm afraid I don't agree with your DH at all about the size of the hood, either from a functional or an aesthetic perspective. I have a 30" induction cooktop, and it sits in a 36" cab with a 36" hood above it. Since you need to have a couple of inches on the side of the cooktop, won't yours be in a cab larger than 30", also? So wouldn't a 36" hood look better over the cooktop space? I think a 30" hood will look skimpy. I understand 30" hoods over 30" wide ranges, but cooktops are different. And you know a 36" hood will be more effective. Just have to convince DH. Or make him promise to wash the walls and ceiling!


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RE: Small Kitchen layout help

herbflavor, unfortunately our 1920's little spanish house does not offer the space to reroute the laundry opening because it has daily traffic to an exterior door out to the side yard and studio. I posted the floor plan showing the house layout.

sena01, I really like your mock up drawing- it looks so nice! Your idea of moving the sink to the 56" wall is very intriguing and we are now exploring that possibility. I think it gives that space more purpose. We will do some life size cardboard mock ups and see how the space operates.

buehl, Good idea. Layout posted below and it is not 100% accurate but you can get the general feel of the space.

live_wire_oak, unfortunately we can't give up that access to the side yard/studio, but I definitely agree we need to come up with more space btwn sink and range.

bmorepanic, We are also leaning that way. The cart idea sounds great. My DW likes that flexibility and a 12inch fold down shelf on the 56 inch wall would really open up the space when needed.

lisa_a, I wish that area was bigger that way we could have more options. All the doorways are definitely challenging.

Ginny20, I agree completely but it is DW not DH who wants the smaller hood & unfortunately, I am the one who does the cleaning :(


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RE: Small Kitchen layout help

I completely understand not wanting to lose side yard/studio access. But I see other possibilities that might gain you a less chopped-up kitchen space.

Is it possible to move the breakfast nook entry towards the LR? If so, then you could do LWO's plan, just reversed. You'll likely need to split up the pantry/fridge/steam convection oven run up with 2 of those items on the bottom wall and the final item to the right of the nook doorway.

What is that rectangular space next to the w/d on your plan? Is the laundry/pantry/w/d and rectangular area all one space? If so, could you move the doorway to that area towards the LR? You'd preserve the side yard/studio access but gain room for a L-layout.

Another idea: Can you add a door to the breakfast nook so that you can access the side yard/studio from that room instead of the laundry/pantry room? If that works, then can you move the doorway to the pantry/laundry room to the hallway?

I don't know if any of these ideas are in the realm of possibilities but thought I'd throw them out there. Best to look at it from all sides before plunking down money on a remodel.


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RE: Small Kitchen layout help

Insomnia is keeping me up so I'm dreaming my way through houzz.com, waiting for the Sandman to come. I came across a kitchen I've seen before and admired (it's been featured in at least one magazine, too) and thought of your home.

Would it be possible to incorporate the laundry/pantry area into the kitchen to create a larger space altogether? That's what Shelly Amoroso of Amoroso Designs, SF, did for her own kitchen.

This is the whole, gorgeous space:

This is a close-up of the end wall:

And this is what is hiding behind the doors:

Yep, there is a washer and dryer in that polished kitchen. Could you do the same? Just a thought.


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RE: Small Kitchen layout help

If it's possible to tear down the wall b/w the nook and kitchen, having an L kitchen with dining table b/w long leg of L and LR may work for you.

Tall appliances+cab (maybe a narrower one+ a narrow base cab), corner sink (?), trash, DW, cab, cooktop, cab, and tall or medium height cab.

 photo smallampnook1.jpg

And another one

 photo smallampnook2.jpg


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RE: Small Kitchen layout help

for the "little Spanish house" I would place the washer dryer in the master bath-there is an empty rectangle to work with over in that area.,,or perhaps the second bedroom bath...then bring the whole pantry and washer/dryer area INTO the kitchen plan,keeping the exterior door.Make the breakfast "nook" the one main dining area by opening it to living room.


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RE: Small Kitchen layout help

Oh, I LOVE old Spanish bungalows, and certainly whatever makes it special should be preserved.

Herbflavor's general idea does look interesting. Also, that larger bedroom is larger than the active living area, and its top wall backs to a plumbed room. That also might be a place for the laundry.

I have no idea what spaces and walls are too charming to destroy, but I would absolutely be looking for a way to adjust square footage so that important areas that need more have it.

I also live with the results of making some secondary areas small in order to have larger ones, or just one, elsewhere. Even one spacious-feeling area will make a whole house feel larger, even the small rooms.

Also, must the route in from the studio take one through a laundry, or would through another room, like a breakfast nook, do? Seems like fixing a very inadequate kitchen space would be high priority.


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RE: Small Kitchen layout help

Have you already purchased the appliances? I'm asking b/c a range is much more space efficient than a cooktop + one or more wall ovens.

Even installing a wall oven below a cooktop (or below the counter elsewhere) is not as user-friendly as a range b/c the wall oven is then quite a bit lower to the floor than the oven in a range.


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RE: Small Kitchen layout help

Oh, wow, all along here I was mistaken in assuming that the OP was going to have a range plus a secondary oven in place of a MW. I didn't realize that the OP was going with a cook top and a wall oven.

1x1, Buehl is correct; a range is definitely more efficient for a small kitchen. That said, if you've already bought the appliances or are dead set on your choices, the next best option is to put the oven below the range, IMO, even though that puts the oven lower than an oven in a conventional range. Why? Because then any plan that gives you counter around your cook top also gives you landing space for oven items, freeing you from needing to make sure you have landing space elsewhere in your kitchen.

Here's a lay-out with either a range or an oven below the cook top, doors and windows as they currently exist.

 photo GW1by1A-1.jpg

The gold rectangles are upper cabinets. The white boxes are tall items (fridge, pantry cabs).

Your kitchen is small and challenging so you'll have to make concessions, no matter what. This plan has the fridge next to the breakfast nook doorway. It's not a large opening, either, so when the fridge is open, the doorway will be blocked. However, because it is up against the doorway and the adjacent wall is only 25 9/16" deep, the door can swing open without getting hung up on an adjacent wall, plus it's convenient to cook and table. (I'm assuming that the 30" Liebherr you chose is a built-in counter depth fridge.)

The big plus of this plan is that you have loads more counter around your range/cooktop & oven than either of your plans gave you. You even have room to put the oven below the counter next to the cook top, which would put the oven as high as possible below counter.

The tall cabinets on the bottom wall are pantry cabinets, floor to ceiling storage.


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RE: Small Kitchen layout help

"...even though that puts the oven lower than an oven in a conventional range..."

I guess this is where I, personally, disagree. We originally considered an under counter oven, but when our KD showed us how low the oven was - it was an instant non-starter! The handle of the oven door almost touched the floor! No way!

But, we're a relatively tall family (ranging from 5'10" to 6'6"), so that definitely had an impact on our decision (plus, we plan to "age in place" and an oven that low would have become an issue over time.)

My recommendation to anyone considering an under counter oven is to find a showroom (or somewhere) to see it in-person and to try it out - that's what decided us - seeing & experiencing it in person. It may or may not work for you and your family....but check b/f you commit to one.

Ditto for a standard MW mounted in an alcove under the counter.


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RE: Small Kitchen layout help

It wouldn't be my choice either - and I'm a heck of a lot shorter than you - but given the small space and not knowing whether the OP has already purchased the appliances, I put it out there as an option anyway.

However, the OP may not be able to put the oven below the cook top because IKEA cabs may not allow that type of install. They have a 24" wide cab for under counter oven installation but not a cab for under counter oven install under a cook top. But there is room in my plan to install an oven below counter next to the cook top.

I checked and the plan I drew up works with the IKEA cabs the OP wants to use.

1x1 - are you still out there?


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RE: Small Kitchen layout help

Is the problem with the 36" hood an aesthetic thing? What about something like the attached? It's smallish biggish and you can still put your Abstrak box around it at 30" (you do have to be sure you don't end up with something weird, obviously) with the edges peeking out the sides. But the front is only sticking out when you use it. With no wall cabinets, you're gonna be getting sticky with only a 30" hood. (I put this in my last kitchen and it works well.)

I hope you will panel that dish drawer!

I do understand the sleek appeal of cooktop vs range, but do look at the ranges and see if any are sexy enough.

Here is a link that might be useful: http://appliances.monogram.com/ApplProducts/ZV800SJSS


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RE: Small Kitchen layout help

Wow, thank you for all the responses! Sorry we have been a bit distracted with redoing our roof (upgraded to cool roof), installed 2 bathroom vents & and a tubular skylight in master closet. It’s been a tough week! Now that we are back on kitchen duty, we have been hard at work attempting the different ideas & mockups. All the posts from everyone have helped open our minds to exploring many possibilities that we did not see before.


Lisa_a:
Breakfast nook is actually being used by DW as her office & she would be sad to lose it. So we entertained rerouting the laundry/pantry/w/d access to the hallway & moving the side yard access to the kitchen to get the L-layout.

 photo door-near-knook_zps851e87e5.jpg

Then further reconfigured that with a french door giving us a galley kitchen layout similar to your posting of Shelly Amoroso’s design. We liked this & gave it lots of thought, but realized that the galley kitchen does not provide a open/social gathering space.

 photo galley_zps82eb1eab.jpg

 photo galley-3D_zps5e2d8ede.jpg

Based on everyones feedback and after trying out all sorts of options:
We are still leaning towards using the space as is and not moving walls and windows. The pantry as a separate room works for us with w/d and a tall 24 inch cab that holds my Miele espresso maker (very important for me to function). We revised our original "option 2" layout with the suggestion of putting the sink in the prep/landing zone, by adding a smaller prep sink. Then rotated that to function more like a little island. It might be weird but we like the idea of having a small area for prep that faces the living room as we spend most of our time there and might extend the counter top for seating. We also might open up the wall to the living room by an additional 18” so the entire west wall of the kitchen is open. Like this:

 photo prep-sink_zps58e18564.jpg

 photo prep-sink-3d_zpsf1bf0e87.jpg


Sena01:
My DH really likes your mock ups, what program is that? Also, We can’t give up the nook(office) for the nice layout you did because we have the original windows at front & side of house that gives our Spanish house it’s character.

Herbflavor:
That empty rectangle is the master bedroom closet, so we won’t be able to put the d/w there. Although we entertained putting the d/w in the second bedroom closet that get’s little use.

Rosie:
We totally adore our Spanish bungalow and try to preserve as much of its character where we can. That’s why we can’t give up the nook(office) due to the charming old windows.

Buehl:
We have not purchased appliances yet, but we want to go with the induction stovetop & only a 24” steam/convection oven. We actually started the design with a freestanding Bertazzoni. I agree that the oven below stovetop would be too low to the ground & resolve to putting our oven in the tall cabinets.

Fori:
We looked into many undermount pullout hoods and although aesthetically pleasing, the functionality was not as effective based on posts here that I have read. I am also very particular about noise and having a cone shape for fumes to collect. My thought s are that if I have to sacrifice size, I want to compensate with function.

This post was edited by 1by1 on Mon, Sep 9, 13 at 3:22


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RE: Small Kitchen layout help

If you go with the prep sink idea I think you should move it closer to the hall door, and move the fridge closer to nook door.

With a folding edge you can increase your prep space when needed.

I have Home Designer Suite that I started using when I renovated my kitchen a few years ago )unfortunately before I discovered this forum).

Here is a link that might be useful: Folding Edge


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RE: Small Kitchen layout help

I've never seen a bad review of a pullout hood but I've seen plenty of an undersized one. :)


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RE: Small Kitchen layout help

sena01, I like the folding edge counter thanks for that and pulling the prep area forward is a good idea.

fori, Do you have a pullout hood? If so, which one and how well does it function compared to a wall mount?


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RE: Small Kitchen layout help

Frankly, I prefer the L lay-out you proposed but I understand not wanting to go to the trouble and expense of moving doors and windows.

IMO, I think the prep sink in your latest plan is redundant since the main sink is right across the aisle, just a step or two away. What you need is more counter space. IMO, of course. I also think your counter space is too chopped up in your latest plan. You have little bits here and there and not really a decent amount of room in one space. That's the main reason why I think you should ditch the prep sink.

I'd also move the oven cab to the left end, keeping the tall items all together. I think you'll find the 24" opening claustrophobic and not nearly as useful as it would be if it was at the end of the run. It also would make the doorway to the breakfast nook feel less crowded.

If you add a pop-up counter to the peninsula and lay it out just right, you might end up with a long span of counter from wall to wall. It would block kitchen access completely but if it's just the two of you and it's not a permanent thing, that might not be an issue.

I'd also add a seating overhang (LR side) with stools that push completely under the overhang when not in use. This would give you a bit of seating for company, plus a bit more counter space.

Are you planning on staying in this house for a long time? I ask because if not, you may want to consider an induction range or at least a 27" or 30" wall oven so that future buyers don't walk in and think "Oh, we'll have to redo the kitchen" because it only has a 24" oven and reduce their offer accordingly.

btw, I wasn't suggesting that your wife give up her office (the breakfast nook). I was simply asking if a window in that room could be swapped out for a door but perhaps I didn't make that clear. I'm assuming that it's only you and your wife in the home so there wouldn't be a huge amount of traffic going through the room.


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RE: Small Kitchen layout help

This may seem a little late, but until the kitchen's finished everything's still open:

As one with a set-in stovetop and a separate below-counter oven I just want to offer that I find it very space-efficient. The stove-top saved critical depth inches as it sets entirely within a standard counter, instead of sticking out and requiring additional aisle width and door clearances.

Detaching the 30" oven from the 36" stove allowed me to manipulate cabinets to divide what would have been 6 (six!) lost inches between a wider drawer stack and wider corner door. (It's not a space issue, but I love not working in front of a hot oven.)

Yes, it sits lower than most range ovens, but that's an ergonomics issue, not a space efficiency issue -- an important point in a kitchen this small.

BTW, regarding ergonomics, at a too-sedentary 62 with a collapsed disk, occasional twinges in one leg and foot to remind me of it, and previous severe sciatica, after 3 years I have not once had a problem arise because the oven is set lower and wouldn't hesitate to do it again. This could be an important factor for people with significant, permanent physical limitations that can't be "fixed" simply by strengthening weak back muscles and improving bad posture, however.


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RE: Small Kitchen layout help

Is your washer and dryer a stackable? I have an idea but I need to know what you have before I propose it to make sure it's possible for you.

Looking at your drawing, I'm presuming that if you incorporate the laundry/pantry space into the kitchen, you gain 4'11". Is that correct? How do you use this space, other than for laundry and side yard access? What else is stored in this space?


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RE: Small Kitchen layout help

Lisa, don't leave us hanging ! Show us anyway !!!


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RE: Small Kitchen layout help

lisa_a,
I like the idea of a pop up counter and seating. We are planing to stay here a long time, we have land (a rarity in LA) to build for growth and LOVE our neighborhood. So no resale concerns. We just want a kitchen that is more us. I included some pics of our current kitchen from when we bought the house. We initially upgraded all the appliances from the ones in the picture 31cu ft. LG, GE Cafe range and BOSH dishwasher thinking that it would change the space. We also got rid of the micro/hood combination.

 photo ScreenShot2013-09-10at41027PM_zps563b6708.png

 photo ScreenShot2013-09-10at41109PM_zpsd06b733a.png


rosie, everything is still pretty open and thanks for the input. Sorry to hear about your back that must be challenging at times. We are only going with a 24" steam /convection oven based on our needs and uses. The thought is that we just pull from a standing height because of how frequently we plan on using it. I am also planing on having drawers underneath the cooktop so really no wasted space.

lisa_a,
Yes the washer and dyer are currently stacked. Here is an updated layout showing the area of the small pantry. I have not had time to implement your other ideas.

 photo kitchen-wpantry_zps0ddea08f.jpg


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RE: Small Kitchen layout help

Here's what I came up with today:

 photo GW1x1B-1.jpg

This is closer to what I had in mind when I suggested incorporating the laundry/pantry area into the kitchen ala the inspiration pic I posted above of a peek-a-boo W/D next to a fridge.

This plan has no corner cabs, lots of counter area and room for more than 1 cook to work comfortably, plus adequate aisles. You keep side yard access and a separate breakfast nook/office. Plus you get an island with a prep sink (this location make sense since the island becomes a barrier island between fridge and cook top). The steam oven is next to the cook top, left or right, your choice.

I checked and the sizes I listed for cabs are IKEA sizes (rounded up in all cases, too hard for me to write 23.875 with a mouse).

I don't know where your current exterior door is so that may need to move. The window is smaller to allow for more cab storage but that can be changed. (Oops, I forgot to check upper cab sizes, too). You can add more light to the kitchen with a door with a glass top half.

I don't know what model W/D you have, whether it's closer to the one posted in the pic above or closer to a full-size W/D. If the latter, then this plan may not work because it might be too deep to allow for sufficient aisle room, plus you'll need to check if a deeper cab affects fridge door swing.

Anyhoo, here is what is possible if you add the pantry/laundry room space to the kitchen.


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RE: Small Kitchen layout help

One more thought. Hard to figure the scale on these Ikea drawings, so the peninsula might need to scootch up a smidge. Easy access to the sink for the coffee station and laundry too.


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RE: Small Kitchen layout help

And as a gally. You could even put a wall cabinet with appliance garage below next to the pantry to integrate those cabinets.


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RE: Small Kitchen layout help

lisa_a, We like the big kitchen feel. One of the challenges is that we do not want any upper cabs, which is why we have the wall of 88 high cabs with the fridge. However with this layout, we will reconsider. Our space is a little tighter than your drawing in terms of the cabinet run on the sink wall. Here is my ikea version of it. Aside from the wall, we would have to move the side door in order to fit the W/D along that wall. The W/D model are Kenmore Elite and have a depth of about 32 (with venting in back). The separate run of sink, prep sink and stove top are nice. The window above the door is now on our wish list :)

 photo ScreenShot2013-09-10at93548PM_zps5ff77c5c.png

 photo ScreenShot2013-09-10at94018PM_zpsbda86b30.png

williamsem, both of the layouts would work w/o having to move the door. The galley going in the opposite direction is interesting and now something we are considering. I am not sure about the open W/D but they are white and very nice looking, just wondering if that would pull from the minimal clean lines we are going for.


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RE: Small Kitchen layout help

I have nothing new to suggest of my own. I like both Willamsen's and lisa_a's layouts.

I think the sink can be arranged to be used from both sides of the peninsula in Williamsen's layout. So, an alternative can be to have DW outside the peninsula (at the place marked pantry) with plate/glass storage and maybe part of pantry could still be there.

With lisa_a's layout maybe an island w/o sink can be considered.


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RE: Small Kitchen layout help

Here's a tweak to your above plan, just giving you more ideas to consider.

 photo GW1x1B-1-1.png

I shifted the island towards the sink, reducing the 41" aisle to 36", removed the prep sink, replaced it with a 24" cab for storage and replaced the other cab with seating overhang for 2 stools. You mentioned wanting a place for company so here's one way to do that. One of you could sit and visit while the other preps, too. The stool I would suggest would be something like I linked to below, backless and fairly small footprint. IKEA has something like it as well.

You mentioned that your property has room to expand your home. If there's a chance that you will add on and that you might create a dedicated laundry room at that time, it might be a good idea to purchase a 30" wide pantry cab to replace the W/D in your kitchen at a later date. That way you won't have to worry whether the line you're purchasing will still be available or that the color will still match.

I just googled IKEA Abstrakt. I'm surprised that you're choosing a very sleek, modern cabinetry line for your Spanish Colonial home. Are you intending to remove the cabinetry in the breakfast nook (which I absolutely love) and changing the overall flavor of the home? If not, I think your kitchen will seem out of place. Have you considered a modern twist on cottage to blend the old and the new? That would give you the clean aesthetic you like while acknowledging your home's architecture.


The white uppers provide storage but seem to fade into the background (walls and backsplash would need to stay white, too). The dark cabs ground the space and give a nod to tradition. But the overall vibe is contemporary.


This kitchen mixes traditional with modern twists: the stainless steel shelves blending with the hood, decorative elements are white and stainless but the rough-hewn table softens the modern edges.


This kitchen is IKEA, with sleek Abstrakt uppers and (now discontinued) IKEA pine doors. IMO, it's a good mix of modern and traditional.

Another interpretation is to make your sink wall all windows, no shelves or uppers on that wall - perhaps tile the whole wall? - but add uppers around the cook top. The room will seem large and have a modern flair but will also offer additional storage. It will also help balance out the visual weight of the opposite wall. You may not need the storage now but if you intend to stay put and add on to your home, the kitchen should reflect the scale and needs of a larger home.

Here is a link that might be useful: Pottery Barn Tibetan Barstool

This post was edited by lisa_a on Wed, Sep 11, 13 at 14:58


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RE: Small Kitchen layout help

I've been spending more time than I ought to perusing through houzz.com - I'm intrigued by the idea of mixing modern with Spanish Bungalow - when I really should be doing other chores (can you say procrastination?). Most of the Abstrakt kitchens I found were very modern, most of the Spanish Bungalow kitchens I found weren't. I'd love to know more about your vision for your kitchen.

In the meantime, I thought this one kitchen I found might serve as inspiration for you.

The cabinetry isn't as sleekly modern as Abstrakt but the floor is stunning (definitely more interesting than your existing vinyl floor) and something like it might tie modern to Spanish Bungalow. The last pic from this kitchen shows a "wall of tall" with mostly bare walls in the main part of the kitchen, just as you're planning.


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1by1- Your current kitchen and dining room are pretty! I really like the sink area, the corner cabinets and the windows :)


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lisa_a,
I really like the open feel of your designs and the future forward 30” cab for the WD is a good idea. However, one of the challenges that I see with the proposed designs is that part of hallway would be open to the kitchen. Here is your pic with the hall wall mock up. If we remove part of the hall wall the kitchen would protrude into the hall about 56” and be right next to the bathroom door. Ideally I would like to keep the hall run and maintain at least visually a separation from the kitchen and bathroom.

 photo hall-bath_zps1c339fa9.jpg

We love the juxtaposition of Spanish and modern. We have a lot of the pics you posted in our inspiration folder. As to how we are going to make this work in the kitchen? That’s the difficult and fun part. One of our ideas is to pull the wall down cosmetically to the 88’ high cabs. This will give the built in look incorporating the old and new, similar to the last Jessica Helgerson interior pic with the wall of cabs with the fridge. We like the built-ins in the breakfast nook however they are not practical from a functional perspective and limit the walls in both directions so they will be repurposed during this process.

lavender_lass, our current kitchen is cute but the cabinets are custom made and have super small openings making it difficult to organize and accommodate almost everything.


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What if you kept the 'hall wall' and left two or three inches sticking out past the cabinet? That would give you room for the stools and still have a little privacy for the bathroom.


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I thought about that but then kitchen would then be open into a good portion the opposite hall wall which indents for the hall opening. The opening also looks like it ties in structurally to a load bearing wall (things are never easy in these old houses).


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Hmmmm.....

I have an idea that might address your concern about the hallway wall. Let me noodle on it and draw it up for you. I'll post it tomorrow.

Funny that you would have come across the same photos I found at houzz.


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The idea came together more quickly than I expected so here it is:

 photo GW1x1C.jpg

This plan keeps the hallway wall at full length. Even if it is a load bearing wall, you should be able to add a header and doors for the W/D closet. Looking at this now, I may have underestimated the W/D closet width. It might need to go wider but that's doable. The fridge panel (they have backs, right?) would be exposed a bit more and you'd need to downsize from a 30" cab next to the fridge to a 24" cab but those are minor adjustments.

If you can, make the W/D closet door a pocket door, going into the bathroom wall. Too bad there's not enough wall behind the fridge to put the pocket door there (you can build a fatter wall to house electrical and water lines for fridge, plus pocket door structure, you've got the aisle clearance in front of the fridge). You need the width of the door plus 1".

I'm assuming that the Liebherr fridge you're getting is a built-in and the wall next to it won't affect door swing. If it's an issue, get a left hand swing door (hinges on left) so that you can open the fridge without it binding on the wall. This isn't as convenient as a right hand swing door because the door will block the closest landing space but you could also use the counter across the aisle.

This plan gains you an additional 15" pantry cab. That's 62.75" of cab pantry storage, not too shabby!

This plan also gives you ample aisles to move about the kitchen.

The wall between fridge and W/D closet is a skinny 2x4 wall. What this means is that the 2x4 studs are turned perpendicular to normal placement, gaining you 2" of width.

The skinny white rectangle behind the cab next to the fridge is counter. I figured having the counter line up with the hallway wall would look more finished. You can build a dummy box to fill the void and finish it off with a panels so that the overhang is the same 1.5" as elsewhere.


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llisa_a,
We would appreciate that. For me, Houzz is both a blessing and a curse. How may different ways can one spell o-v-e-r-l-o-a-d? :) I need to clarify that we came across a lot of similar pics you posted (not all the same ones). Your post of the mediterranean kitchen by Jessica Heigerson was new to me and inspired me to go back on the site. I posted some of my latest favs from there. Just to catch up on your earlier comments/questions...Our style & vision for the kitchen is mid century modern with Spanish (just as you suggested). The 1st pic is kinda our living room feel minus the brick. We like to collect/add some art elements. We're going with Abstrakt for the clean modern lines and also easy clean up. However, like you pointed out, we are worried that too much abstrakt might make it too sleek & definitely need something rustic to soften the modern edges. Our dining table is concrete. We like/need a "wall of tall" for the clean line & storage capacity. A little sit down/prep is necessary as the stool from the office always find its way in the kitchen as the DW likes to sit while prepping.

 photo ScreenShot2013-09-12at92448PM_zps718d51cf.png

 photo ScreenShot2013-09-12at92416PM_zps7f31b7ae.png


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lisa_a, sorry that our reply is out of order, you were faster than us and we must have crossed paths while responding to your pervious post.


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Wow, this floor plan is really going in a good direction! lisa_a, you are kickin' butt on this thing. Love the W/D turned to the hall.


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lisa_a, sorry that our reply is out of order, you were faster than us and we must have crossed paths while responding to your pervious post.


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RE: Small Kitchen layout help

Sleeping on the idea was a good idea. Here's what I came up with just now.

 photo GW1x1C-1a.jpg

I reduced the depth of the W/D closet to match the depth of your current machines plus venting. I also increased its width for door framing (gives you 6" more than W/D width).

I then created a false wall (the white center is a void) to bump the fridge closer to the sink run - still leaving a 42" aisle - which means that the front of the fridge box is even with the wall so no more worries about door swing, no matter which side the hinge is on, no matter whether it's a built-in or free-standing. You'll have plenty of room to open the door to pull out drawers.

I shrank the cab next to the sink from 30" to 24" to keep a decent aisle between peninsula and cook top run. Bumping the fridge towards the sink run gains a 15.5" seating overhang, room for one stool. You could also ditch the 24" cab in favor of open seating and have room for 2, one on the end, one on the LR side. I forgot to add the dimension for clearance from peninsula counter diagonally to hallway entry corner. It's 50", more than enough for seating clearance. I also figured the clearance from center of seating (12" from corner) to hallway corner: 44, the recommended clearance for an aisle to walk behind seated diners.

Even though this plan keeps the hallway wall, I think your kitchen will still seem more open than it does currently, because you're losing the wall between kitchen and laundry/pantry. Also, having the pantry cabs - a whole wall of sleekness - tucked out of the way a bit might help soften the modern vibe.

That 4.75 niche on the pantry wall is left over space (if I did my math correctly, that is) that you could use for a skinny wine rack like this (but full height):

Love the inspiration photos you posted. btw, I can tell you're a west coaster and a night owl like me, judging by the time you posted. I'm up the coast from you in Portland.

Deedles, you crack me up! I told hubby "hey, someone on GW said that I'm kicking butt! In a good way!" Thanks!

This post was edited by lisa_a on Fri, Sep 13, 13 at 17:17


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lisa_a, you are awesome :)

This post was edited by 1by1 on Fri, Sep 13, 13 at 15:56


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What a great way to end the week. I'm told I kick butt and I'm awesome! ;-)

Happy Friday, 1x1!


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I think you also...rock! :)


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I like it! I'd use that little spacer wall as a shallow utility closet, or put in a folding ironing board and laundry supplies.


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I was thinking canned food storage/pantry, in the little spacer. Just the right size for tomato sauce, soups, etc. that always get lost, behind everything else :)


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RE: Small Kitchen layout help

This is such a great thread. I have basically nothing to contribute. I just think it represents the best of GW. And, Lisa, those floors are so great - along with your brainstorming to help the OP!


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Thanks so much to everybody for helping us get to this point. As a next step we will be talking to a structural engineer as we like to be DIYers as much as possible. We will report back with the findings.


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Good luck! Keep us posted.

(Thanks, LL and Steph. Good idea to use that spacer wall next to the W/D as a shallow closet, williamsem. I had that drawn up in one of my ideas but it never made it to the finished drawing.)


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