oops typo, those fridge drawers should have been $2000.

Rereading Sayde's post made me realize I'm also still missing prices for lighting, 2 garbage disposals, backsplash and refinishing our hardwood floors.

Wow, thanks for the responses.

The window: This is a triple window to replace the triple window we have now. The new window would be altogether about 60 inches high and 98 inches wide. The new one would be longer (come down to the counter) and about 30% wider than the old one. The reason it is so expensive is that it would be custom made to match our old house and the glass would be custom made leaded glass (very simple rectangular panes of regular glass with zinc cames).

The first bid for this window was $16000! (in paint-grade and higher in stainable wood) I got it down by saying: no screens, no storms (my DH will make them) and the windows will be fixed. There is an alternative to do a Marvin window for about $10000. The problem with the Marvin is that it would have to have the flat "storm" glass on the inside so would not look like the other windows -- or so the window guy says. I'm going to see some of the choices on Thursday. But yes, I really choked when I heard those numbers. I guess I will keep poking at it to see how I can get the price down.

The cabinets are also high, especially considering it's a pretty small room. So I will be working this too, both looking at other suppliers and for opportunities to simplify. But I really do like the Crown Point.

The numbers are so daunting especially in view of the fact that they radically violate that 15% guideline about renovations as a percent of house value. Where I live -- well, I don't even think I can bear to tell you what that percentage would be for my little house. But, then again, we're not planning to move.

I appreciate the feedback from everybody. I will keep you all posted.

while crown pointe is lovely cabinetry i have to wonder if it's worth it? my cabinet maker is wonderful and has done some pretty amazing kitchens. he charges a fraction of the cost of CP.

Oh and about the pot rack:

It is a chrome pot rack that has integral pendants. First saw it in AD many years ago, and now in the BHG kitchen and also on the CrownPoint site in the Victorian Kitchens, I think number 2 or 5. So it's been in my "inspiration folder" for many years. With pointers from other helpful posters on this forum, I tracked it to Howard Kaplan who would make it custom. It might be a bit less now as my island and consequently my pot rack will be down-sizing. I need wider aisles.

This pot rack is not something I need ! I have a perfectly good black Enclume pot rack! If I offer it up, then can I have my kitchen? (Who am I talking to???)

I just reread some of the posts in response to mine -- it is so helpful to hear that others are in the same situation. I especially resonated with Beachbum's thoughts about having to decide whether to spend to get what you want or forgo the whole thing. We're in the process of finishing two bathrooms (and for good measure we're swapping out our furnace to switch from oil to gas). About 5 years ago when Unico started offering an AC system that would work in a house with hot water radiators, we did that (after having had no AC for about 25 years). With each improvement, we said " Why did we wait so long???????"

Am I trying to rationalize this humungous expenditure? You betcha!

You might save some money if you switched to a Wolf range instead of a rangetop and separate ovens.
I have the 48" AG Wolf range with 2 ovens in it, and I love it!

Try other window companies- Anderson and Pella. You may get a better price.
Custom windows are always higher than standard sizes.

Other than those suggestions, I'd say your estimate is about right.

Oh, and thank you Erikanh - I forgot about the backsplash when I explained my numbers. That's not been selected or priced out yet either. Please see one of my responses in another thread about wanting to do a thick glass backsplash. (Insert maniacal laugh here.)

sayde -- I want to really thank you for posting this! It's amazing, astonishing how quickly it adds up, right? Even for kitchens like ours which aren't enormous. Yowza!

I think the CP price for inset doesn't seem ridiculous (for inset) -- I mean sure, it's a lot of money but I guess I'm just thinking about what we were hearing inset would cost, and it was not far off from your figure. Our full overlay ended up being just a bit less than your CP quote, and inset is always more expensive. (I'm trying to make you feel better, although I think my words are failing me!)

It's funny, because as I read your list and the price for the window I immediately wondered if it was leaded glass ... because I am / was (waffling) looking at having two small (2' x 3') leaded glass windows made (paint grade interior, vinyl exterior, insulated glass, etc.) and I need to sit down just remembering the quote. Holy cow! But damn, that leaded glass sure is gorgeous! I am not trying to encourage you to spend more money, but I think that's something you'll regret every day if you don't do it "right." Only you will know the correct definition of "right," but that's my two cents!

And I send you a B-I-G fat kiss for the reference to Howard Kaplan! I too have coveted that pot rack and posted pics here and on the Decorating Forum but never got a single response, so gave it up. But I love that pot rack ... it is truly a thing of beauty. (and yes, I am well aware there are some who will castigate me for having emotions about a pot rack but so what) Thank You so much for giving the name Howard Kaplan Designs!

My fingers are crossed for you that it all works out however is best for you. But from the bottom of my heart, I genuinely Thank You for writing this post and sharing with us all how expensive it can be to achieve a thing of function and beauty.

I guess I think if you like your choices you are better off getting it all done at once. It is good to shop around but some things don't seem to vary much, especially high end appliances and special stuff like your window. Whenever we say, "Let's do that part next year", it never happens. We have friends who spent two years remodeling their small kitchen!
We are just getting started on a remodel (kitchen is gutted) and the price keeps rising. We have a medium sized kitchen and a butler's pantry. So far, cabinets are the single largest expense (and the main reason for the remodel).
Custom cabinets: all wood with full extension and soft close and other cool stuff. $41,000.
With plumbing, electrical, floor tile and all the labors...We are looking at over 100K before sales tax. We also replaced some appliances that are not in that budget! If we had known the market was going to tank further, we might have chosen to wait a while. But next year and the year after....etc. we will be enjoying our wonderful kitchen.

As others have said, things add up VERY quickly. We aren't even putting in new floors(only refinishing existing wood floors) and I think I'm close to $60K(can't believe it).

I do think shopping around those cabinets may help you. My kitchen is 18 X 13 with a side area that is 8' long. My cabinetry is costing $18K, with about 1/3 of the cabinets being inset. I don't have any uppers on the 18' wall, but my island is 9'X3.5'. So a decent amount of cabs.

I have/had been scouring craigslist and ebay for appliances and have done very well. I haven't paid "retail" for any appliances. Found a floor model GE Monogram panel ready frig drawers for $900. Purchased both my Blue Star and Thermador Frig/Freezer columns on ebay for a fraction of the retail price. Bought a $1000 Blanco Master Gourmet Faucet faucet for $275 on craigslist. Purchased a 240V advantium on craigslist for $400. Because of this, I have been able to save alot of money. I also would've never been able to afford these appliances had I paid retail.

My point is that if you have some time built in and are willing to do some "work" you can possibly reduce some of the expenses. I would start with getting other quotes for the cabinets as that's where you could possibly save the most.

Good luck! Just remember, we're all right there with you!

I've always loved much of Howard Kaplan's things, both antique and repro (because the repro is done so faithfully to the spirit of the originals). However, I usually see his stuff in pictures of Nantucket beach houses, so I figure why even bother. Anyway, it seems like the light fixture is something that could be put off, or somewhat reproduced. Even using an Enclume or other potrack, Holophane lamps, and your electrician to put them together. No, it's not the same, but what if it saves $1,000, or more, and is true to the spririt of theoriginals? CP cabinets really are wonderful. I cannot recall whether you priced any independent cabinet makers, but you might cut 10 to 20% off that item. I cannot guarantee it, but many posters have been pleasantly surprised by similar approaches. If you go that route, ask to see in home examples of the cabinet makers' work and see if you can supervise or "be present" for wood selection. I do not care what ridiculous COLA experts claim, there is tremendous inflation, and it goes up weekly, actually, daily. Barring a true depression, it's gonna keep happening. I compromised on a lot of items 2 1/2 years ago because I wanted it all done at once and figured (probably correctly) that it was now or never. But I sacrificed the La Cornue, stone hood, and inset cabinets that I really wanted. You know what? I ended up with a kitchen that I love. I only think about the other stuff when I read posters going through the sticker shock and am reminded of my own experience. Also, have you looked into any salvage components? Some posters here have done wonderful, amazing things with some salvaged items! My point is that you can make some sacrifices and still be happy. Oh, about the window--does that include any demolition of the existing window space?

mahlgold, that seems like a fantastic price for cabinets. Are you using a local cabinetmaker? I was anticipating a much lower price from Taylor Made which is a smaller local cabinetmaker compared to Crown Point. Taylor Made's price does include installation, but it's still pretty close to CP's price.

Just curious, what's the story with warranty service when you buy an appliance from ebay?

The cabinets are custom from Adelphi cabinetry. They are not a "local" cabinet maker, they are a national brand. I happened to find(with the help of GW friends) a VERY competitively priced KD. I really lucked out.

With regards to ebay, if it is sold by an authorized dealer, and they state there is a warranty, then so be it. You really have to read each auction individually as some state there is a warranty and some state no warranty. Many times the prices are significantly better because they are not offering a warranty. I guess you'd have to decide if you're willing to take the risk. With the craigslist items, there is obviously no warranty. But, for example, with the advantium, which normally retails for close to $2000, I figured even if I needed a repair I would still(hopefully) be ahead of the game. It's all risk/reward.

mahlgold:

any chance I could luck out with your very competitively priced KD????!!!!

would love any recommendations (I'm in the SF bay area)

I feel your pain. I'm looking at your list. Looks like you should be able to keep the quality, just shop for deals. Another poster mentioned ebay, craigslist. Start stock piling the items in your garage or storage unit. The pot rack is a splurge, just buy it! :0) Question: travertine tile used to be cheap @ HD, like $1 a foot, no ones using that any more? Poor quality? or too porous?

Mahlgold- Are you using Mike from Wholesale Kitchens in Lodi, NJ? I found out about him from GW and have been very pleased. I got custom cabinets for not much more than Kraftmaid.

He is one busy man though!

Thank you, thank you, for both the suggestions and the support!

I have been actively looking at options besides Crown Point:

I'm meeting with someone who reps Candlelight tomorrow.

Last week I met with a KD who reps Signature and Sterling. I liked her quite a lot -- she seemed "real", but when she looked at my drawings she asked me half seriously "Why do you need me," I thought , well, Indeed . . . .

I did talk to a local woodworker/cabinetmaker who does beautiful work and his initial estimate was much higher than Crown Point. But I don't think it was a "rigorous" estimate at all --so I will go back to him.

I had a meeting back in June with a rep for Cabico and O/D and he hasn't even gotten back to me yet. I think that when I talked about wanting to re-use some of the glass, his eyes glazed over and he thought "uh oh she's gonna be trouble, no slam dunk of cabinets here" and so he put me on the bottom of his list.

The Woodmode place -- same story!

I talked to another remodeler who reps a Canadian company named MRS. He came highly recommended by an acquaintance whose kitchen he did. He seemed great and enthusiastic but when he saw my drawings and it became clear that I would be sending them to other people as well, and that there was a good chance but not a 100% certainty that he would get the job, he decided not to invest any time. He offered to work on my stuff on an up-front fee basis only. Bye Bye! (And this is with me doing all the layout and elevations so no drawings were required from him to do an initial estimate.)

Also talked to Kennebec -- they were way more, no surprise there.
And I have yet to talk to the guy who finished the bathroom --he reps Stylecraft and can do some one-off work himself. At least he is a known as far as getting the job done. Also known -- he won't come cheap. I'm kind of saving him for last, ace in the hole?

So with Crown Point, that's 9, though some dead-ended. Between all this, and doing drawings and of course reading books about kitchens and looking at pictures and reading forums, this has become a job and a half. It has been mostly fun as I love design, but now I am getting to the point where I wish it were done and it hasn't even begun!

Have not yet really looked hard for appliances on eBay -- have been reading on the Appliance forum which is filled with posts from people who have had problems with their appliances -- skewed sample, I know -- but it has filled me with dread about straying from the local dealer -- and our local dealers do not carry much of an array. This project has so many unknowns and possibilities for "difficulties" that I felt that in the case of Appliances which seemed to be the most potentially proplematic I should seek safety. Ergo Wolf. If I had not been reading I would probably go with BlueStar -- but if I had not been reading, I would probably not have heard of BlueStar.

Sorry for the long post but it helps me to document for my own sanity that I have been doing some research. Have to say, it has been pretty illuminating.

sayde, what a coincidence, we're both considering Crown Point and Cabico. I also went to a Candlelight showroom, but the guy there tried to steer me from inset cabinets, not sure why. I never went back, but would love to hear your price comparison if you get one.

I'll be very interested to see what the Cabico price comes in at when I finally get it. They have a reputation for being a good value for the quality.

Even though I've never seen Crown Point cabinets in person, I fell in love with their photo gallery a long time ago. So many of their kitchens fit so perfectly with my taste. The kitchens I see in most every other cabinet company's catalogs and websites strike me as cookie-cutter and uninspired.

My original KD who kept giving me designs that looked nothing like the stacks of inspiration photos I supplied her with was also an Adelphi rep. Now that I've come up with my own layout (with loads of help from people here), maybe I'll ask her if she would like to give me an estimate.

I totally sympathize with you starting to feel like you wish it were already over. I assured my DH several months ago that we'd have a new kitchen before the snow flies. Oops.

I think your figures are in line with reality, more so than all of us who said "that'll be 40 grand" LOL (My starting figure). I'm pushing into the second of those six figures, and did get a couple splurges you chose not to get (the Lacanche) but also saved quite a bit by purchasing antique lighting and rehabbing it myself (the fixture I purchased 4 of for $2000 total goes for about $2500 each in antique stores). I tell you that...because if I had to pay retail for my lights, I'd have done so...I adore them, and I have also always loved that potrack/fixture you're in love with...but didn't know where it was from. I will put that in our victorian home :) So I totally get that splurge!

Costs here are so much higher than in the lower 48, but I still think I'd be well over six figures even there to do what I've done here. ANd your cabinets, the bid is about a thousand off of mine :) I think it's fair. (Mine are inset beaded).

It hurts, but it's supposed to be worth it :oP

I would get some more custom quotes. Our custom cabinets are going to be about $6000 less than the quotes I got for semi-custom AND the semi-custom were for overlay and the custom ones are going to be inset. They are only charging us $1000 extra for the inset. Did you say where you live? If you happen to live in our area (SF Bay Area) I could recommend a couple of high quality, reasonably priced cabinet makers.

Same story here. I'm crying as I am writing this!!! I initially thought I could remodel my kitchen for about $50,000. Then, reality set in and it has cost over more than double, probably about 130% of my estimate. My Decora and Bertch Legacy cabinets were $50,000, my appliances were $20,000.

I love my new kitchen so much that I would do it again in a heartbeat.

Jbrodie- would love the names of the cabinet guys in the sf bay area. We are just finalizing layout now but want to start thinking about the cabinets now. We laughed at the first architect who told us that you can't do our size kitchen(15x22) for less than $100,000. Guess who is laughing now?? We are down on the penninsulaa dn would love any leads available.

jbrodie:

Please add me to the list people interested in cab guys (I'm in SJ area). I have a estimate for $40,000 for some cabs I'm not even in love with! Yikes!

Thanks!

Sayde, We have 2 Marvin windows that are 108 inches wide x 57" high. They are the Ultimate Double Hungs, all wood, stainable, with storms to copy the historic outdoor storms, but in reality the storms slide up and down. Each is divided to look like 3 windows. Two and 1/2 yrs ago, our contractor bought these windows and his price to us for these, plus 4 other smaller windows, was $7000. I think you are getting hosed on the window quote.

No, we don't landscape with dirt - old picture.

Here is a link that might be useful:

We had our custom window made by Parrett Windows in Dorchester, WI. Our window is a little smaller than yours (ours is 80" by 52" overall), but it is all mahogany, has two swing-in screens, four storms, and is all restoration glass (except the storm for the stained glass...resto glass didn't come that big) and it came to $7,600 including tax. The stained glass panel was ours and they made the window to accommodate it. In the exterior picture, only the storm for the stained glass is in place. The others are off until we close the casements for the season.

p.s. we have crownpoint cabinets and I LOVE them.

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No matter where you are shopping on the kitchen budget spectrum I think those initial prices are always shocking. I really appreciate the candor about value here as I think it is integral to making informed decisions.

I don't want to start a class war but it is shocking to me that you would even entertain spending that much money on your kitchen. Having said that if you have the resources to do it then why shouldn't you? I hope you can get a bit closer to what you want for less. I'm terrible with names but one of the posters with one of those big budget buster kitchens (which is gorgeous) recently posted that in hindsight she thought she could have settled for less and still been happy. Another poster ran out of money and had to do her flooring in vinyl composition tile and it's gorgeous, someone else who has a beautiful kitchen and ran out of $ ended up with laminate counters she's very happy with. It's possible to compromise and still end up with something great. I'd spring for the window and think about frameless cabinetry myself. I would also look at that 10%-15% of your property value number and use it to set the parameters of your budget - what can you do for that and can you live with those compromises let it out by 5% and see what that makes possible. The "if I get this I can't do that" exercise is usually quite revealing (and the so if I can't do that what are my other options sometimes turn out to be pretty good) and in my opinion is a more useful approach than a I just want it no matter what. You sound pragmatic I'm sure you will be able to find a workable compromise. Good luck!

I have to agree that initial numbers can be shocking. More shocking for DH than me in our case. I had an idea of what to expect. Our kitchen will be 16x22 w/11x10 eating area adjacent. We, too, priced Crown Point b/c I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE, drool, pant, almost hyperventilate, head toward potential orgasm when I see the photos of these cabinets both in Crown Point materials, magazines, and in kitchens of posters here. BUT.....their initial cabinet cost was $103K!!! Then, with offered discount it came down to around $65K. The finish that I wanted helped push that price up - handpainted milk paint. The cabinet design itself was fairly straightforward -- raised panel inset, no beading. Plus, I immediately connected with the designer I worked with and she "got it" right away, whereas other cabinet reps. I talked to would just sort of tilt their head and try to convince me that I would be satisfied with their product - the look, the finish, etc -- wrong.

Bottom line -- we could have stretched and stretched and had my Crown Point cabinets, but it would have compromised other areas of the overall remodel (we are doing work in almost every area of our house). So - I went on the GREAT CABINET QUEST and found a local cabinet company who can deliver what I want for around $45K. I was serious, serious about my cabinets and there was not room for compromise for me on construction and design -- I was clear about what I wanted here. It definitely took some serious research and beating of bushes to find these folks, but now that I have, I couldn't be happier. My cabinets are forever and so this was not an area I was willing to go cheap on -- hopefully this is the last house will live in, so it was important that it be our "forever kitchen". B/c the cabinets will be painted I chose a the less expensive wood -- poplar. I am confident that the construction is sound and the finish will be what I want. I was much more flexible in appliance search for example, as I see these as something that will potentially be replaced at some point -- even if it is 20 years from now. The $$$ saved on the cabinets can now go toward supporting the installation of reclaimed wood floors, some flexiblity in appliance choices (which will come in at about 10K w/some compromise and looking), Marvin windows (which was the only brand that could match our "historic" look), and local soapstone for counters.

So....where there is a will, there is a way, but it does take work and thoughtful negotiation, knowing what REALLY matters to you and, I think, a willingness to "let go" of some things in the process in order to obtain others - the letting go of my Crown Point dream brought some tears, actually. But, the decision is made and I have moved on. I think in order to let go, you have to know your priorities. Me - cabinets, my DH - big screen TV.....go figure. We are finding a way to satisfiy us both in the end and create a home where we will build wonderful memories with our children and hopefully with our children's children when the time comes.

It helps for me to stay focused on the big picture when I get completely neurotic about ONE THING -- it is just part of the whole, I remind myself, and in the end will be wonderful when all of these parts come together. Best of luck -- Alice

Our 350 square foot project included demolition to the studs of our butler's pantry, kitchen, pantry and laundry room. Re-framed several areas, installed two new custom 4' windows, plus new interior and exterior doors. Cabs were locally made and finished on site. Soapstone counters, high end appliances, reproduction lighting. The only thing we saved was the existing subfloor which we refinished as "the" floor. Our KD said she thought it would total to $100K. Ha! Setting aside the replacement of our central heat done at the same time, the final tab will be about 1.6 times her educated guess.

That said, we are very glad we waited long enough to have the resources to do it right. In restoring a gracious old home, certain compromises make sense (e.g., reproduction lighting, opening up the floor plan) and others don't (granite instead of soapstone, vinyl windows instead of custom wood). We advise you to find the perfect GC who in turn will have his/her own cabinetmaker, stone guy etc. on speed dial. Our GC is diligent, cost-conscious and has great esthetic sense. GCs like him do exist; they are busy of course. DW and I would say, compromise where it makes sense--yet defend the integrity of your home. (It's gonna cost ya!)

$100,000 is a lot of money, no question about it. I wouldn't call it a "shocking" amount, however, if it's not going to cause financial strain. A $20,000 reno could mean going heavily into debt for some, while others can afford to spend $100,000 without borrowing any funds.

I'm grateful to sayde for starting this thread, and I'm glad to know I'm not the only one who underestimated the numbers going into their project.

Thanks again for all the responses -- especially the window pictures and price information! I'm going to the window place tomorrow and now feel more certain that I should push to get the cost down. And I will look around for other potential vendors.

Yes it IS shocking what this all costs, and that I am even contemplating spending this much makes me feel awful. I dreaded to share these numbers with you all and it helps enormously to have heard back that so many are experiencing something similar. I would never share these numbers with friends who are not TKO as we all are here on this forum, but OTOH some of these friends spend money in ways that I fail to understand . .

Thanks again for all the support and suggestions!!!! And -- very important -- for letting me know how much you love your kitchens (and that Crown Point cabinets are so nice -- to a person, everyone seems to love them).

Erika, I sent you an email.

Sayde, What part of the country are you located in?

It can be shocking to see how much a kitchen can cost - especially if you want custom cabinets, high end appliances etc. Originally I looked at Crown Point but quickly came to realize it wasn't going to be in the cards. I just didn't want to spend $100k on our kitchen even though we could afford it. With home values plummeting I couldn't justify it but THAT IS JUST ME. I decided I didn't want to spend more than $60k and managed to get a very, very nice kitchen for a little less than that. Obviously, I didn't get CP for that amount or very high end appliances but it is a very nice kitchen nonetheless. I did shop around A LOT. Also, in our final cost of about $53,000 there were construction costs of about $25,000 - we did a gut renovation, moved door, windows, took down stairs etc, etc.
BTW, I considered Candlelight cabinets - they have lovely inset ones and their finishes looked very nice to me. They would definitely be less than CP - my estimate for painted, inset shaker style for a 17X15 kitchen was less than $20k. I would take any suggestion to stay away from their inset cabs with a grain of salt - most cabinet salespeople try to dissuade customers from it for some reason (at least in my experience).
Anyway, good luck with your kitchen.

There are a few things that helped me deal with the cost turning out to be so much more than my estimate.

First was that I had one guy, a cabinet store owner who could also be the GC for the project if I wanted, come in early on to give me an estimate. He came to the house, I showed him what I had in mind, and he told me that I was way off & told me what it would cost. He itemized what needed to be done and the approximate numbers. Most likely, I think he didn't want to waste his time if I wouldn't be able to pay for it. I had been kidding myself, and hadn't really looked into just how many expenses there would be. I thought it was all about the cabinets, the appliances, & the floor. Everything else felt it would be managable.

It was a real eye-opener, and it was very helpful that I had this insight and had time to adjust my thinking. I would be freaking out if I had these these expenses coming at me while I was already in the middle of the reno.

Even more important, I had to get DH used to the idea of what this would cost us. He is the most generous man in the world, and pretty much lets me run the show - he's happy if I'm happy - but he's a big believer in planning ahead, and this just would have seemed crazy & out of control to him (and to me!) and I wouldn't have been able to make good decisions & choices on the spur of the moment.
I had some time to assess what things I really wanted & where I'd be willing to compromise.

Finally, and I think this is the most important part, I gave myself a little more time to save up some more money. There was a thread not too long ago about how people are paying for these kitchens - cash up front or borrowing. I am firmly on the side of wait till you can pay for it & then get what you really want.

Having said all that I still want the thick glass backsplash, but that just seems nuts.

Sayde: sounds like you're at the sticker shock point in the process. We've all been there. The 40K number is often floated and always makes me laugh because it seems to be a universal figure we're all shooting for at the onset, only to find that once you start putting the estimates together, the budget is (somehow?!) waaaay off.

We thought enlarging our little galley by taking down the dining room wall to unify the space would be a relatively easy project (figured 40K with a 10K cushion), but that was before we got serious about the space and about costs. That's before the construction actually began and the surprises and 'while we're at it' started! Not to mention all the stuff you just don't think of as being part of the budget initially - in our case the barstools, pendants, new dining table, lighting for dining table, chairs, art, coffee maker, etc. - you get the idea.

Looks like you're doing as much as you can to see if the cabinet price point is correct for the style and quality you require. I tried to get as many cabinet estimates as possible to find the best fit for our space/budget. In truth, most were very close, except for that one quote that was ridiculously high (worth a laugh though). Ended up with Elmwood, a custom line that was what we were looking for, and happened to be a line sold through a KD who made our space really work.

At some point choices will have to be made, and you keep the materials most important to you, and find alternatives for those you are willing to modify to make the (ever changing) budget work. Good luck with your new space!

jbrodie and others in the SJ/SF area -

I would also like to get your recommendations for cabinet sources. I am looking for beaded inset cabinets. My quote from Crown Point is $90,000 (for the cabinets alone with minimal bells and whistles!). Like Sayde, I am looking for other options because that alone will take my kitchen into just about 6 figures.

Susie

Hi Kitchen Susie,

We are using Nivia in San Jose. 408-253-1998. Mina is my contact. Please tell her I sent you. She is currently working on our project (inset shaker). They did a friends kitchen and did a great job. Our contractor has installed cabinets made by them on two jobs and is impressed with the quality. http://www.niviya.com/index2.html

The other cabinet maker I considered is Galaxy Cabinets in Redwood City. Jose was my contact, and again, tell him I sent you (I felt really bad when I had to let him know we chose the other). They did cabinets for our neighbors which are beautiful. He was a little more expensive (though not much). I liked his finishes better, but we decided to have ours painted in the house, so that didn't matter. http://www.galaxycab.com/

Let me know if you have any questions!

Julie

A close friend has beautiful beaded inset cabs from Signature. I think she spent about $23,000 for them at the time (3-4 yrs ago). That was for a painted finish and also included a built-in style hutch for the passageway to her DR. I know they are available nationally through various kitchen places.

If you are ready to make decisions, start making them -- prices will be going up once folks down here get past the cleanup and start rebuilding or repairing.

All your notes have been giving me the courage to keep working toward a plan that feels "appropriate."

Hi Pluckymama, I'm in Rochester NY. I'm looking forward to seeing the pictures of your Lacanche -- how is the rest of your kitchen going?

Candlelight is in Lockport-- just down the road. Would love to hear more from all who looked at Candlelight -- if you decided not to go with them, how did you make your decision? I met with a rep today. She will find out if they can do the special things I want. She said that they now offer beaded inset with the bead on the stile.

I wish I could understand exactly what the differences are between Crown Point, Candlelight and Signature. Would surely love to hear if anyone has compared . . .

Meanwhile I worked up a different design for the new window which I hope will cost less.

Thanks again for all your inputs to this discussion. I appreciate all the suggestions for how to get to improve the bottom line.

sayde, kitchen is coming along. We went with a local custom cabinet company in NH and have been pleased. They were way lower than our Crown Point estimate and our Cabico estimate.

We talked to a company called Vermont Custom Cabinetry at a home show in NH and they had some of their cabinets at the show and it was very high quality, similar to Crown Point. They are in Westminster, VT which is 5 1/2 hours from Rochester. You might want to get an estimate from them. Here's a link. http://www.vermontcabinetry.com/content/index.html

Our Lacanche actually arrives tomorrow and we can't wait to finally see her.

I looked at Crown Point, Candlelight, Signature, Cabico, Quality Custom and several others before we went with the local company. Signature were very nice cabinets. They are made by Amish in PA and very high quality. Quality Custom was like Signature but their finishing work was exceptional. More expensive than Signature. Crown Point make high quality, beautifully finished cabinets. They used to be sold through dealers, but cut out the middle man, but didn't substantially lower their prices (according to the local dealer in NH that used to carry them, now they carry Signature and Quality.) Candlelight is a good company, but if you look at their beaded inset doors, the bead is on the door itself, instead of the inside of the cabinet door opening. That is a way they cut costs as it is a less expensive way to do a door. I don't know if they have recently changed that or not. Cabico used to be a great bargain, but they are a Canadian company and the dollar is low against their currency so the price is not that competitive right now.

Good luck with your decisions. I'd give you the name of the custom people doing ours, but I'm not sure if they would install in Rochester!

sayde,

I took a screenshot of my Excel spreadsheet comparing Cabico and CP. I'm still waiting to hear back from Cabico on their price ... I'll let you know when I get it.

{{gwi:1952181}}

oops, I posted in the wrong thread. Darnit!

Thanks so much Erica and Pluckymama! Really appreciate the information. I will check out Vermont cabinetry.

I did check out that bead on the door -- you can see it is done that way in the photos. I met with their rep yesterday and she said she checked with the factory and now they are offering it on the stile. She said she can order a sample door and I hope I will get to actually visit the factory and see this for myself before I order!

Erica are you still in the process of deciding?

Sayde...I've also posted on another thread about construction costs. I had a pretty good idea of what my materials would run, cabinets, countertops, sink, faucet, etc. and have so far asked two remodeling companies to bid the project. The numbers were so extraordinarily high that we questioned one of the remodelers to disclose their line by line bid (something that I have since learned is rarely done in the building business). What we've discovered is that when a remodeler is putting a budget together and they give you a cabinet allowance or hardware allowance they put a figure in the budget that is based on what you want, and then add anywhere from 20% or 50% markup on those items. So a hardware allowance of $200 now becomes $350. We have been shocked by this practice and are now more aware of markups by remodelers. So if you are looking at $50,000 in cabinets and a remodeler offers to get them for you make sure you look at the budget proposal and see what you are actually getting charged for. It definately affects the bottom line for the consumer and something we should all be aware of.

This is how it works.
The GC will give you a lump sum number for your total remodel. He does not want to give you a line item quote.
He will have a budget for each trade. So If he can squeeze his subs down, he gets to keep the difference. He will not pass that saving onto you.
Now, I am biased ( being a cabinetmaker myself), if homeowners come to me, I will give them a true price, not the price + 25% ( the GC's markup )
Also just because he is a GC doesnt mean he can make cabinets. Cabinets are not cans of soup, they are not subtitutable.

Steve

Hi sayde,

Yes, I'm still in the process of deciding. Although I don't have a final price from Cabico yet, I'm pretty sure that they are going to be significantly less expensive than Crown Point, maybe as much as 30 to 40% less. As much as I adore CP's product, I don't know if I'll be able to justify spending that much more. It's going to be a tough decision for me, because the CP designer, Carol Stevens, has been so great to work with. The Cabico designer is also very nice, but I don't think she's in tune with the look I'm trying to achieve.

Good luck with your continued search. I'll let you know when I hear back from the Cabico KD with prices.

Erika

DH just reminded me that when we priced the 61" Urban Archaeology version of the Howard Kaplan pot rack, it came to over $10,000. You could definitely beat that price with some good craftspeople, combining some RH pendants and custom rack, even if you pop for the hooks and numbers at HK.

Hi Kitchen Detective, Urban Archaeology makes gorgeous stuff and is priced waaaaay high. I got a price for this pot rack in about 18 by 30 inches from Howard Kaplan and it was about $2500. But I wlll take your suggestion about having the rack made by local people and sourcing the hooks --THANKS!

Thanks cabmanet and pix1 for the guidance on construction. I am planning to source all the stuff myself. I'm wondering if I am starting down the road of being the GC! I already have the names of some good subs from the bathroom remodel -- do I even dare imagine considering doing this???

The information here is so empowering! I really appreciate it. At the risk of being heretical it almost feels like I imagine praying for guidance and sending the questions out and all this wonderful information comes floating back -- but it's from other people who are in the same situation.

I agree with everyone who finds that "six figures" is typical for a full kitchen remodel as I did one several years ago. When we moved shortly thereafter, however, naturally we did not come close to recouping our costs. Consequently, I am currently planning a far more frugal kitchen remodel, and am considering two cabinet companies which will ship fully assembled cabinets that appear to be high quality, yet low priced: Woodcraft (the cheapest I found were from Kitchen Cabinet Depot) and London Grove Industries.

I will probably go with Woodcraft since they will only be @ $5,700 (including shipping) for finished maple, raised panel, full-overlay doors (they only make standard and full-overlay styles), all hard and plywood construction, high quality concealed and full access hinges and drawer guides, crown molding, and a furniture style toe-kick cover. I'll be ordering 8 base and 7 wall units for my 18' x 10' kitchen.

London Grove Industries gave me a quote of $5,300 for similar, but unfinished cabinets with inset doors. I believe finishing typically runs about 40% of the cabinet cost, which would bring the total to @ $7,400 here.

If anyone has seen or heard about these cabinets, I would much appreciate any information.

Hi Sayde! I'm catching up on old posts; I'm sorry PR didn't work out for you, but you'll find what you're looking for, I'm sure.

I still like an awful lot about your present kitchen! :-)

Vicki