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Marble with Clearstone pic

Posted by romy718 (My Page) on
Sat, Sep 21, 13 at 15:20

5 different finishes on the two pieces, high polished to honed. After I talk to the applicator on Monday, I'll do some etching experiments.
My one concern is the edge of my ogee. I told him that I wouldn't want to be able to see the layer of coating and he said he would work the edges so it wouldn't be visible. I'm not sure because I don't remember exactly what this ogee edge looked like before the coating was applied but the edge does not appear as sharp as my countertop edge. I have to talk to him about that. Even with the polished areas, you have to bend down to see the coating edge. I have to find out if he can "work" the edges less and keep them sharp.
Srosen is a Clearstone applicator, so I am hoping he will see this & give me his opinion.

This post was edited by romy718 on Sat, Sep 21, 13 at 20:01


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Marble with Clearstone pic

Alright romy, there are not too many kitchens I turn my computer upside down for, but yours is one of them! It's gorgeous!

I've been looking for your reveal. Did I miss it?

Thanks for keeping us posted on the marble...I can't wait to see what you decide.


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RE: Marble with Clearstone pic

I edited the pic so it is right side up? My ipad has it right side up but?
I haven't done a reveal. Our kitchen is still not functional, no light fixtures, floors covered with cardboard, appliances not connected. The counters have been in for 2 months & since we didn't start using the kitchen & they are still perfect, I have been dreading the first etch. Stumbling upon someone that applies Clearstone & actually being able to see it, was a surprise. The possibility of my marble not etching is beyond exciting. The finish looks great and I can still pet it.


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Here's the picture right side up. Curious, who's the cabinet manufacturer.


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On my monitor, it appears that your counter surfaces are honed. Is that right? So would that match the third from the right and fourth from the right examples? I am trying to be sure that I am seeing what you want us to see. In those two examples, I don't sense a "coating," which is very nice. Perhaps that means a transition to the edge would be imperceptible? On the far left, I sort of do, especially at the upper edge of the sample. Or is that reflection? I have been reading about this treatment on the Stone Pro website and on an Australian website for a couple of years, so am very curious to see what you come up with! The website mentions use on calcitic marbles. I'd also lie to know about use on dolomitic stone.

This post was edited by kitchendetective on Sun, Sep 22, 13 at 12:12


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RE: Marble with Clearstone pic

If you're brave enough, what I'd actually like to see is what it looks like after you drop something on it. Like a can of soup on edge. Does that introduce a small nick in the coating where it will peel off? Or will it survive that (and worse)? Like being gouged by a knife that slipped? Or being soaked full of water from the underside? (Like a leak spraying it down to saturation point.) I'm curious as to how well it adheres to the stone. Especially since I'm not that in love with the idea of a plasticy coating between me and the stone.


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RE: Marble with Clearstone pic

Kitchendetective - my countertops are honed, & the third & fourth samples from the right are also honed (pic from my first post). On my knees, looking directly at the edges, I can't see a layer of coating. With the polished samples, I can see where the polished area ends & the honed marble begins but a layer of coating is not visible. The eased edge sample in this picture looks perfect. The ogee edge sample, I'm not sure about. It's not an issue of being able to see the layer of coating. It's whether the sharp edge of the top of the ogee has been blurred. He's going to probably have to make me another sample to reassure me, as this one is a different marble & a different ogee edge.
Hollysprings-those are great questions & I will ask. I did ask about dropping somehing heavy on it & yes, the coating will crack/gouge, pretty much just like marble would (without the coating). It does protect the marble so that the finish would crack rather than the stone. Either way, I'd be calling someone for a repair. Initially after application, it has an MOH of 2 and then cures to an MOH of 4-5. I have a large crowd for Christmas & he has agreed to repair any scratches that occur within that 3 month curing phase. Another key question that I asked was "can it be removed & the marble restored" if for some reason it fails. Yes, it can.
The finish does not look plasticy. It feels smoother than my marble & I think I will see less of those imperfections (from either the honing process or the sealer) that I can see if I get at just the right angle in just the right light. While those imperfections don't bother me, the marble finish looking more consistent won't bother me either. I'd still have to be careful not to drop things, but not having to worry about spilling acidic food & liquids would be a huge plus. I got the marble knowing that it was going to etch...but I may be the first GW Clearstone guinea pig.


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RE: Marble with Clearstone pic

[Bumping in hopes that srosen might see this]

Romy:
Have you tried a lemon wedge yet on the area that has the Clearstone applied? I would be interested to see that too.


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RE: Marble with Clearstone pic

I started my experiment today. Not much food in the house but I have ketchup, mustard, small puddles of vinegar, orange slices (no lemons or limes on hand) and glasses dipped in red wine. Two pieces of Danby marble with Clearstone, one piece of unsealed honed Imperial Danby & just for fun I added a piece of polished Calacatta & a piece of honed Calacatta. I cleaned one piece of Clearstone & the piece of unsealed Danby after about 2 hours. The Clearstone was perfect, the unsealed Danby looked like a crime scene. I put all the stuff back on the Clearstone & will check everything in morning & post pics. I'm also planning to try to remove the etches from the unsealed Danby with Comet & a green scrubbie.
I spoke to the Clearstone guy today. My concern is still the ogee edge because they have to round it very slightly. Right now the plan is to do my small laundry room counter which is the same Danby marble with the same edge. If the edge looks good, I'm going for it. Thanks for bumping. I'd like to hear Srosen's experience with Clearstone & ogee. The eased edge sample looks perfect.


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RE: Marble with Clearstone pic

Romy-We have been working with clearstone for almost a year now. I am sold on it and I think you will be pleased .
It will not stain or etch period. It is the only coating at the moment that doesn't look like most of the coatings that are available now.
It will scratch-but so will your marble.
It can always be repaired by refinishing.
I think the edges can be worked to a point to make them less noticeable. Depending on the stone and the edge type
will dictate the final look. We haven't had any complaints with the edges so far.
I think you will be very satisfied with the product.


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Srosen - thanks much for your response. I am very happy with the appearance of the Clearstone finish & that I can't distinguish the layer of coating from the marble. The fabricator explained that in order for the coating to be subtle, the edge where the coating ends & the uncoated marble begins has to be rounded slightly. The top edge of my ogee is somewhat sharp. In your experience, will that slight rounding change the overall appearance of my ogee edge? Thanks again.


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Srosen-this is a picture of the sample ogee with Clearstone that he made for me. The sample ogee edge detail is smaller & less defined than my marble edge . The sample is the reason that I am concerned the Clearstone could change the overall look of the edge. It looks a little flat to me. Am I being too detail oriented & TKO? He is willing to do a small countertop in my laundry room that is the same marble & edge detail to show me the end result.


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I love the experiment scene....looks gruesome, but hope it comes out clean as a whistle!


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I think it should be ok-if the edge is rounded a bit it should blend in nicely.
I think you may be the only one who notices the sharpness of the edge is rounded.


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srosen - "I think you may be the only one who notices the sharpness of the edge is rounded". Exactly what my husband said. Thanks for helping me make this decision. I called today to schedule the whole job, kitchen & laundry room counters. We are so lucky to have you & all the other professionals that participate on GW.
My experiment: not a single stain or etch on the Clearstone. The unsealed Imperial Danby tile etched like crazy but no staining. The picture looks like there are pink stains but they are actually colorless etch marks. For fun, I'm going to try to remove the etches with Comet/green scrubbie.
I kind of feel like I'm wimping out on my marble by not trying to live with the etching. I'd read about Clearstone & thought it would be something I would consider down the road, if the etching bothered me. It turns out the one company that uses it in my area, is in my hometown & I end up ordering my backsplash tile from them.
Aries61 - sorry for not responding earlier. My cabinets are Brookhaven & Wood-mode.


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Romy you are making me so happy that I have been so slow to finalize my kitchen plans! Could it be that I really can have marble counters?

Can I ask you to do one more experiment? What happens if you clean the Clearstone with non-abrasive Clorox Clean Up spray? I checked the product care page, and while I wouldn't use a cleaner like this often, I can envision the germaphobe in me wanting to use it at least a few times through the years. The care page said you can use Windex.

I can hardly wait for the reveal! Do you also have a wood-topped island? Your kitchen looks fabulous!


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Yes and just think-while the rest of us marble owners are justifying unsightly etch marks as patina(which it isn't really) you wont be.
Crazybusy-The chlorox shouldnt bother it.
If your worried about germs try 3% hydrogen peroxide.
Green disinfectant.


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Crazybusy - i'd be happy to try the Clorox Spray. What kind of marble are you yearning for? That is my wood topped island, another scratchable surface but stain resistant. I bought that big tray/basket to throw my purse, keys, mail etc in.
Srosen - thanks for the hydrogen peroxide tip.


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RE: Marble with Clearstone pic

OK Romy, you are going to be the one we watch....what's your date they come apply everything? We will all be waiting with baited breathe. I had fully resigned myself to living with the etching. And now there's a chance that I won't even have to worry???? That's amazing.


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Super excited to see this kitchen! Marble and wood are a dreamy combination, I drool over Breezy's island every time I see it.

"I think you may be the only one who notices"

I would not accept this from a contractor, as they seem to serve a lot of blind clients with vertigo whose understanding of concepts like "level" "flush" and "plumb" are equivalent to a drunk South American's understanding of "punctual".
But... even among the TKO faithful, the degree of roundedness of an edge/coating is on the hair splitting end of the spectrum (but what hair? boar, goat or horse? Mane or tail?http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/kitchbath/msg0810090514049.html)


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I just wanted to pipe in and say they make a sanitizer for natural stone. I use it on my polished marble vanity and honed marble floor (powder room, so not big) anyway, I've had no problem with it etching or anything.

Found it at Lowes

Here is a link that might be useful: Dupont sanitizer for natural stone


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Sorry I didn't read through, but I have a question.
Does Clearstone come w/ a warranty?
Well what happens when the sealant fails, over the course of 5-15years of usage/wear/tear/scrubbing/rubbing, etc? What happens next?

The reason why I ask is because when I was going through this for my marble sealant, my fabricator offered some Dupont Bulletproof 15year deal thing. Sounds great BUT what if say 7yrs down the road and the sealant has been worn down a bit on my prep area and it leaves a stain or something: what happens next?
Fabricator's response was:
- first they'll try to remove the stain w/ some pumice or something (BUT what if they're not in business 7-14+years from now)?
- if it doesn't come out at the end of all their efforts, then they'll replace the countertop. <----Yeah, see? THAT is a no go for me.
You don't know what kind of slabs there'll be in the future. what if they don't match my backsplash, etc?
You'll rip out the current countertop? What kind of damage to my cabinets, or backsplash, etc?

So I chose not to go w/ the Dupont sealant, but instead I seal my countertop/backsplash w/ Miracle Porous Plus (no, I'm not affiliated w/ them) every 2-3months, since I use my kitchen heavily.

just thought I'd share my 1 thought.

(love your gorgeous kitchen)
thanks,
Amanda
I can't risk having some sealant fail from natural usage.


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October 7th & 8th, the Clearstone is going on my small (3ft x2ft) laundry room counter. It is the same marble & edge as the kitchen. I decided to do the "trial run" because of my darn ogee edge. I'm hoping it works out as I really want it for the whole kitchen. If I had known I was going to do Clearstone, I would have chosen a simpler edge. The samples with the eased edge look perfect.
huango - there is a 15 year warranty. Surface damage (scratches, dents from dropping things) is not covered. They can be repaired, just like marble. As srosen has said & the results of my experiment, it will not etch or stain. The coating can be removed & the marble can be restored to natural marble. If the finish failed, it should be covered by the warranty. If I decided I didn't like it & wanted it removed, that would be at my expense. That's the main reason I'm doing the trial run.
Your description of the Bulletproof warranty is the same as my understanding of that warranty. It's a one time charge of $200, they give you a kit and if you can't remove a stain, the fabricator tries to remove it. If the fabricator can't remove it , then it is just as you described. The Bulletproof warranty does not include etching.
I'll keep you all updated (closure!)


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RE: Marble with Clearstone pic

Romy thank you so much for starting this thread! I have no idea which marble yet since I walk by the slabs with my fingers in my ears and my eyes closed "I'm not listening..." lol

I have a 20 year old Carrera marble kitchen table that is so etched I just resigned myself to granite counters. I was pregnant, with a one year old and three year old when I bought the table, and it never occurred to me to seal it. If it didn't come already sealed it would be safe to say I used it for 20 years unsealed. So you could just imagine. Interestingly, it never stained, just etched. It was highly polished and every drop shows. I have used clorox on it thinking it might "hone" it all, but no, Still see lots of rings.

When the fellows were pounding on the bathroom floor during the remodel, a crystal fell off the chandelier and hit the table. It dinged whiter than the table, but honestly, the dings are not nearly as apparent as the etching.You also have to be careful with serving from pottery/ovenware/pie plates with rough bottoms. You do not want to drag that across the marble.

But now with the Clearstone option, I am really excited about the prospect of marble counters. I spoke with Stu Rosen and he is sending me samples. I'm about 500 miles from him but I still think we could work it out. My kitchen project has been on hold for some time, mainly because of the layout and my inability to find granite I'm excited about. The selection is pretty limited where I am.

Stu said it's food safe, so any food that comes in contact with it is safe to eat, and that it is basically like a clear coat on the surface of the marble. I'm fine with that. I think it will make it look like it was just polished. I polish my table once a week, and I'd be thrilled with a product that made it perpetually look like that.

huango how long have you had marble with the Porous Plus? Have you experienced any etching? Are you happy with that product? I'd be interested to learn how you like it and how much it costs.

mountaineergirl Thanks for the tip! I'll look for it at Lowe's.

Romy...hurry with that reveal! And brilliant idea to do the laundry room first. I can hardly wait for October!


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crazybusy - that is exciting that Stu is sending you samples. I think you will be pleased. I have samples of honed, high honed & polished. The honed finish looks best on my Imperial Danby, giving it a soft appearance. If I had Calacatta with beautiful veining, I might have considered the high honed or polished. I think it would be important to have sample finishes done in whatever marble you choose. Polished/honed in one marble may look completely different in another marble.

This post was edited by romy718 on Sun, Sep 29, 13 at 0:28


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RE: Marble with Clearstone pic

Clearstone is not a sealer.
It is a coating that will live above the surface of your stone.
While the coating has been formulated to be acid resistant and stain proof.it isn't processed by the same machines used in fabrication of the stone.
Regarding edges the coating must be shaped by hand tools to match the edge profile. Some edges can be very tight to work with so the edge may be rounded .
Kksmama- these type of coatings aren't for everyone . Perfect solutions for countertops will be difficult to find but picking a dense acid resistant material will get you close.
Huango-what type of countertops do you have.
Please do some research sealing your countertops every 2-3 months will cause potential problems.
What type of stain do you have?
Your right to wonder about the warranties from impregnating sealer companies.
The list of performances for these types of sealer are as follows.
1) To temporarily inhibit the intrusion of staining agents into the surface of the stone.
End of performances.


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RE: Marble with Clearstone pic

Clearstone is not a sealer.
It is a coating that will live above the surface of your stone.
While the coating has been formulated to be acid resistant and stain proof.it isn't processed by the same machines used in fabrication of the stone.
Regarding edges the coating must be shaped by hand tools to match the edge profile. Some edges can be very tight to work with so the edge may be rounded .
Kksmama- these type of coatings aren't for everyone . Perfect solutions for countertops will be difficult to find but picking a dense acid resistant material will get you close.
Huango-what type of countertops do you have.
Please do some research sealing your countertops every 2-3 months will cause potential problems.
What type of stain do you have?
Your right to wonder about the warranties from impregnating sealer companies.
The list of performances for these types of sealer are as follows.
1) To temporarily inhibit the intrusion of staining agents into the surface of the stone.
End of performances.


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srosen - "regarding edges, the coating must be shaped by hand tools to match the edge profile. Some edges can be very tight to work with so the edge may be rounded."
Now I understand why my edge may be rounded. The good news for me is that my ogee edge is not as tight as the sample ogee. The fabricator tried explaining all this to me, but I just didn't get it.
I apologize that this topic keeps veering off to "my ogee edge." This wouldn't be an issue with most edges.


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Don't apologize that's why this is such a good forum . It produces good info thru conversation.
There are many different edge profiles and other challenges to work through when applying and finishing the coating.
Being able to explain to our customers realistic expectations and predictable results is key to any business.


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I have honed VT Mountain White Danby marble; been in for ~9months only.
NO stains, but definitely a few etches.

hmmmmm, never thought about the effect of having TOO much sealant...

The Porous Plus is ~$60/quart, which lasts for many applications (but I've spilled some twice).

If my countertop was simple, like an island, I may consider going w/ such a warranty, but I have the countertop under cabinets, marble window sills, and full backsplash, so the thought of any removal in the future just won't work for me.

Amanda


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Laundry room "test counter" finished today. I like options & wanted to see the high honed, knowing he could bring it down to honed. The sharp edge looks great. That is where the Clearstone ends & my natural marble begins, my biggest concern. Initially, I thought the marble looked slightly gray. The wall behind is painted grey, so I covered it with white poster board. Still grey. Luckily, I have a cutting board in the same marble (no Clearstone) & figured out it was the lighting. I will most likely have him hone it because I think the high honed will be too much for the kitchen, which gets a lot of sunlight. The honed also looks more natural. The marble does look somewhat different. Danby looks "sugary", you can see crystals. That sugary look is less evident. It looks more perfect & the finish is very smooth. It doesn't look fake, just more perfect. A marble "purist" probably wouldn't like it. I think it is the solution for those seeking the white marble look but not wanting to worry about etching. I like my marble better without the Clearstone but I'll be more comfortable in my kitchen with the Clearstone. I pretty much spent the whole afternoon looking at it at every angle. The thing that bugged me the most was an area that has nothing to do with Clearstone. My counters are laminated & there is a dark area that needs a little filler. I had never noticed it until the Clearstone fabricator pointed it out. Now it is "in my face". Questions, more pics, I'm happy to oblige.


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huango, I live in MD and my marble fabricator said they can come out and refinish the countertop in place if it gets badly etched. It costs about 600.00. He seemed to say there was no reason to worry about replacing it. He said people do it every 5 years or so. My friend in TX said her fabricator will not offer this, but I'm not sure why...? But just a thought that there may be other options than having to replace the slab.


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That little area is so pretty! I just love your counter...that specific marble and the ogee edge. I WANT TO SEE YOUR KITCHEN!!!!

I guess I will go back to the stone yard and look at marble now...I guess I should make sure there is a Clearstone fabricator in my area first!


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It looks great! Do you think that doing only a portion (the island?) would be worthwhile? I am definitely interested in this Clearstone but am wondering if it's something I would do only to the island since that is where I usually do my prepping and where the drink rings would likely appear.

How did the Comet and green scrubbie test turn out on the Danby?

Can't wait for the November reveal...your kitchen is gorgeous already!!!!


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firsthouse, I think it changes the look of the marble enough that it could be noticeable to do only one area. The jury is still out about doing my kitchen. I have to have him come back and bring it down to honed, as I can see the layer of high honed depending on lighting. It's the edge. The Clearstone is on the very top and stops at the sharp edge. Then my marble projects out in two layers. If it blended into an edge that didn't project out, not visible (as in my sample piece).
I hadn't done the comet & scrubbie but just did it. You may have just veered me toward considering no Clearstone. I got the etching out (a good bit of scrubbing) of the Danby, but not the Calacatta. I would never leave vinegar, mustard etc on my countertops for 16 hours and this Danby marble had no sealant on it. I would have to reseal & I think that could involve the whole countertop. I could do that. I need a winter hobby. I also wouldn't mind having it rehoned by a professional. I like how someone in the current Carrerra etch post compared it to "having your carpets cleaned".
My plan now: have the laundry room Clearstone honed & reevaluate. I'll be out of town for a week so I won't be able to have it honed until I get back.
Thanks firsthouse-mp. You motivated me to finish my experiment & I have another option. It looks like my husband was right about the Danby.


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romy, do you have danby in your laundry room but another type of marble in the kitchen? i am anxious to see what you choose as far as clearstone or not. i had not considered that marble may actually be a possibility. thought i'd have to go for quartz.

how exactly did you scrub out the etching from the non clearstone danby sample though? isn't etching a result of the breakdown of the surface of the stone?


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I have the same Imperial Danby in the laundry room & kitchen. The Vermont Danby Marble website has step by step instructions to remove etching using Comet w/bleach & a green scrubbie. They also advise fabricators to prepare the surface for sealant using this method. Danby marble is denser (less porous) than other marbles. All that stuff I put on the Danby, even with no sealant, there was no staining. There was major etching, which Iwas able to remove this morning. In this picture, my camera picked up the etching as pinkish. It was actually colorless & invisible unless the sun hit it.
If you can find a Clearstone dealer in your area, they will have samples you can look at.


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When you get back from vacation, I'd love to hear whether you decided to go ahead with doing the whole kitchen :)


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Firsthouse, I'm on the fence but leaning toward not doing it. There's a couple of issues. The marble does not look as alive. I don't have vivid veining & it has made the subtle veining even more subtle. I'm hoping that honing it will help. Also, my marble is pretty white for Imperial Danby. The Clearstone has given it a very slight grey cast which ends where the Clearstone ends. Then there's my whole ogee edge issue. My island is bathed in sunlight & if I can see the edge of the Clearstone on the island, it will drive me crazy.
Also, discovering I can remove etching. I think we're going to live with our marble for awhile & see how it goes.
I'll update my opinion after I have the laundry room honed.


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Paying $40 - $60 a PSF is the dumbest thing I have ever heard of doing. BTW, its most likely closer to $60 PSF.....don't be fiscally stupid. There prices will fall once they realize that many Americans are not that dumb.

Also it basically ruins the authenticity of the stone....


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If it's a fifteen year warranty, that amount of $$ could cover several re-honings in the same period, if you have a local stone person willing to do it. If there are no local vendors, or people willing to drive out, then, under certain circumstances, I could see going with the Clearstone. Here on the ranch, we just live with etching. It's the least of our battles with entropy.


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I was able to see a piece of stone that had this process done to it in a friend's showroom. I didn't care for it. Not only does it mask the crystalline structure and depth of the marble, but it mutes the coloration. It's exactly like you poured plastic on top of the stone and then honed it down a bit. Which is what it essentially IS, I guess. It changes how the marble looks, and not in a good way. If you like marble for it's depth, and sparkliness, and how the veins can be cloudy and crisp at the same time, you won't really like this product.

If you want marble for the look it has, and losing it's unique depth doesn't bother you, then I'd really suggest using one of the man made substitutes. The Formica 180FX looks almost exactly like the marble does that has been treated with the Clearstone product at less than 1/10th the ultimate cost. Personally, if I were in the market to pay $160 a square foot for counters in a home, it wouldn't be on marble anyway. It would be some ultra cool exotic granite or quartzite that had better resistance to etching to begin with.


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I still think the Clearstone is worth investigating for some. The possibility of having no etching on a kitchen counter makes this a viable option for those that love the look, but hate the upkeep.

And while I can see some of the jaw-dropping about the total price, I think that for many, the price of the marble plus the price of the Clearstone might still be in someone's price range. My latest slab of marble was purchased for $48/sq ft, which if you added Clearstone to, would not make it that crazy when you look at the prices of some of the quartzite and the pricier granites. Also, many people do marble just on their island and so would be investing a small amount to Clearstone it vs doing a whole kitchen.

I love that Romy gave this a try and was willing to share her experience with us. That's what this forum is for. I will be interested in hearing how the Danby fares over time. It seems that most marble owners embrace the natural patina process and move past it, enjoying their kitchen and hard work just like they were meant to.

Romy, can't wait for your final reveal--your kitchen is delicious!!!


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Fabricator was a "no show" today to hone the Clearstone.
If I don't do the Clearstone in the kitchen, at least I have a bulletproof countertop in the laundry room.
I think the "look" of the Clearstone depends on the marble & the finish. Anyone considering it should get a good sized sample piece of their marble (with the edge detail) and have the Clearstone applied to their specific stone.
Firsthouse, I absolutely love your marble choice. The veining is going to be a showstopper on the hood.


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Clearstone is a product that has its pros and cons(like any product).
As a traditional stone refinisher I stayed away from applying coatings to the surface of stone for all the reasons mentioned in this thread. Then a large job came along where marble was specified in places where marble had no business being. Dark sensitive marble and it was a mess. Forget patina this was more like disaster.
Anyway it was our first clearstone job.
We were smitten because it worked out well for the client.
We are always asked the big question "what can we do to stop these etches". We never had an answer other than you cant! The second part of the answer was "be careful".
Careful in the kitchen-really!
While for some marbles it may be possible for homeowners to remove etching- most aren't very easy.
Clearstone isn't for everyone-don't think that I would ever put it on my marble as I like the natural look and can deal with the etches. Some customers have us come once a year to refinish their marble others are longer.
For homeowners and commercial establishments who struggle to keep marble surfaces looking brand new. Clearstone is a good option. If they can afford to do it will save them money in the long term.
I disagree with duffydawg that they are being fiscally stupid.
Commercial applications of this product are a no brainer.
Residential applications are different because the stone of course is more personnel. Buying a stone you fall in love with and then wanting to coat the same stone requires some thought before commiting.
There are many folks who hate the etches-just drives them nuts. Some marbles just look awful when etched . It can make your countertops look uncared for and dirty.
If you could have a more permanent way of keeping the surface looking unform clearstone works.
We never push this product as it is a small part of what we do.
It is however a viable option for those who carefully consider it and make an informed decision.
Duffydawg-when I want to see dumb things-I just turn on the news!!
A few clearstone pics if I got the download right.


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RE: Marble with Clearstone pic

Sorry you disagree with my opinion but the price of Clearstone - which is nothing more than a topographical sealant is ridiculous. Its not $40 PSF as Romy has quoted for most residential kitchens but $60 - $65 PSF. This is the price of many good stones!!

Clearstone is simply plugging a huge arbitrage in the market and playing on the nuerosies of high end consumers yet it is an artificial sealant at the end of the day. So the marble is no longer in its natural state.

I think the marble market and the sealant market are going to take a big, big hit with the new options soon to come on the market. There are really nice porcelain products and the engineered products are upping their game in a big, big way. I just saw a sample of Caeserstone Classic Calcutta and it looked great. The PLANE porcelain product is really interesting too.

Once Clearstone cuts their price in half, then lets have a reasoned discussion. That will happen shortly once these other offerings hit the market. I know of projects being delayed for these new offerings.


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RE: Marble with Clearstone pic

Yes I do agree that the price is very high for clearstone.
It wouldn't be an option for me-I couldn't afford it.
I dont agree that it is fiscally stupid.
While for someone like me clearstone may not be a good decision because of the cost. I have seen it work financially well in many situations. We applied it in an upscale restaurant who would have their marble refinished on their bar and within days it would look horrible again.
Clearstone has saved them money and their countertops look great all the time. Same issue with homeowners that have marble countertops and entertain every weekend or have busy kitchens.
We haven't applied it to one countertop that was just purchased however. Most of the applications have been to business and residents who have had their marble for some time.
I also agree with you that that new porcelains and engineered stone are getting better.
Don't leave out glass and stainless as well.
I have seen some amazing glass countertops.
When there is a problem with engineered products it can be difficult to repair and or work with.
Natural stone is easier and more predictable to work on.
Natural stone just by its nature will always have a place in the hard surface market.
.
Clearstone isn't a sealant but a coating that is somewhat complex to apply. Once it is poured on and cured the surface is mechanically honed or polished using abrasives.
If it gets scratched or damaged it can be repaired using abrasives.
I compare it to a coating that gets put on our cars over the paint to protect it. We use clear coatings on our wood furniture and dinning room tables as well.
For me I always tell people periodic maintenance of your stones surfaces like we maintain everything else in our homes is the way to go.
Their are many choices and options for folks to explore and great forums like this to discuss them.


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RE: Marble with Clearstone pic

I agree with everything you said above SRosen...I think for commercial enterprises to have put marble in and not known of the issues of etching shows bad research.

It is a coating and a very expensive one at that. May customers want the marble look but don't want the poor performance and durability qualities of marble. Up until now Caesarstone, Silestone, Cambria have offered only mildly competitive alternatives....especially to Calcutta look.

In 2014 that will all change.

Why would anyone pay such huge money for an expensive coating to go on an already expensive stone if the engineered companies can get a better product in the market? That is what they are now, thankfully doing.

Many people in Europe love marble and have no problems with etching....Americans are not this way. They don't view etching as "Patina" as the Europeans do.... I generally don't like the etching either. But I would never put chemicals on a natural stone surface as to me - it defeats the purpose. At that point I would get an engineered stone to withstand the etching issues.... especially since the coating compromises the natural qualities of the marble and it is so bloody expensive.


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RE: Marble with Clearstone pic

Romy, this is off the subject of your thread, but there is a pic you posted here that shows your fridge. Do you happen to know what kind of hardware you used for its pulls? Thx:)


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RE: Marble with Clearstone pic

Hi lckaisgir, i got your email. You must not have gotten mine. They are the Hamilton Sinkler Metropolitan AP 116K.8.
AP= Appliance Pull
K=Knurled, you can get roped or beaded also
8= 8" CC, they measure 9 5/8" end to end
They also make a 12", 16" & 18". One of those sizes might be 14".
Mine are polished nickel. Let me know if you want some closeup pics.


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RE: Marble with Clearstone pic

Thank you! No, I didn't get your email. I just figured that it was an old email address or you were busy. You must have had a kitchen designer because those are not easy to find!

Your backsplash tile MUST be in by now. Have you seen it yet?


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RE: Marble with Clearstone pic

Romy - did you buy the ClearStone? Does it protect against scratching? I hear marble is really soft. Did you find it changed the feel of the stone? Better honed or polished? No etching?

I am so frustrated but I can't use granite or quartizite and Caeserstone has not brought their Calcutta to the States yet.


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RE: Marble with Clearstone pic

Hi duffydawg. We did have the Clearstone applied on the laundry room counter. Originally it was high honed, shinier than honed but not as shiny as polished. We had them come back & hone it and it does look more natural with the honed finish. It did change the look of the stone. It doesn't look as alive. Does it look like the fake marble? No, it still looks like real marble and is still beautiful but we prefer our stone without the Clearstone. We are going to wait & see how we do with the etching. I also think our sharp ogee edge has made the Clearstone more noticeable. I'll be curious to see if any of our visiting family members will be able to tell the difference between the two countertops. I am happy to have a bullet proof countertop in the laundry room.


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RE: Marble with Clearstone pic

Ugh. Not the response I was looking for from you Romy as you seemed pretty bullish to begin with. I simply cannot find any product that comes close to marble so I am back and the very position I was so critical of. Yet it sounds like there is some texture difference to you.

Is it the look difference or the texture / tactile feel difference or both?

Does Clearstone help against the scrapes and dings due to the softness of marble?


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RE: Marble with Clearstone pic

I was bullish (ha- like that) because the samples (even the ones in my stone) looked so good. The change in feel (smooth, like polished marble) doesn't bother me, although it is no longer cold to touch. What bothers me the most is the color change and that the veining is muted. Unless your choosing a stone that has a very white background, the color change probably wouldn't be noticable. Plus, I just love my marble. I think (at this point), I'd rather live with the etching than change the look of the stone.
As far as the hardness of the stone, the Clearstone is supposed to be about the same hardness as marble or a little harder. No scratches or chipping on the laundry countertop.


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RE: Marble with Clearstone pic

Calcutta Lucca... Specialized marble... Very white with purple brown marbling. How does the color change?


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RE: Marble with Clearstone pic

My marble isn't as white. It has a very slight gray cast. If you've seen my edge, the uncoated marble projects out immediately below the coated marble. I don't think it would be as noticeable with a different edge. Are you able to get a sample?


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RE: Marble with Clearstone pic

Thanks such much for all the posts re: the clearstone. I am debating whether to do the coating on my new calacutta oro. I am not sure about it dulling the marble or changing the appearance. Romy718: any update? How is your laundry room versus your kitchen? Thank you in advance for any comments.


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RE: Marble with Clearstone pic

Romy718, I would love an update also on what you ended up doing with the Clearstone as I know you finished your gorgeous kitchen.


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RE: Marble with Clearstone pic

One more thing, Romy718, What white finish did you use on your cabinets. Your kitchen is so beautiful!


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RE: Marble with Clearstone pic

I can't recommend Clearstone for white marble. It gave my white marble a gray cast & blurred the veining. I'm so glad I had the small laundry room counter as a test case because the 2 samples with Clearstone looked good. Both DH & I agree the Clearstone would have ruined our marble.
To minimize etching events, I use Kleen Range Countertop mats next to my range & when I am cooking with known etching ingredients. They are lightweight, easy to store in verticle storage with cookie sheets, etc. & heat resistant to 350F.
I also got an acrylic cutting board with a lip from Improvements.com. Another GWer recommended it to have an area to throw keys, etc. I have mine on my wood countertop for the same purpose. I don't plan to actually use it as a cutting board.
Lynn- my cabinets are Nordic White, a Brookhaven/WoodMode Color.

This post was edited by romy718 on Sat, Oct 11, 14 at 12:01


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RE: Marble with Clearstone pic

Thank you for your follow-up message. Do you have a lot of etching from stemware or bowls/plates? Wondering how it's held up without the Clearstone to the daily wear of water, coffee....possibly red wine. I'm thinking about our island and I know it's going to be heavily used. I understand there are also cleaners that can help minimize the etches after they occur. Have you tried this? Thanks in advance.


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RE: Marble with Clearstone pic

My marble was sealed with a topical sealer (HMK). I didn't realize a topical sealer (versus a penetrating sealer) was used until I was researching what to use for daily cleaning. I believe it gives me more time before an etch occurs. So far, between my Countermats & a Magic Eraser, I have no etching. I can't recommend that you use this type of sealer because I believe it will have to be chemically removed if I get enough etching & want to rehone & reseal.
Some GWers have had good results with Dry Treat, SST & Akemi sealers.
If you do a google search, "Niffy gardenweb kitchen forum" there are multiple threads of Niffy's SST sealer & her ability to remove etching with a green scrubbie. Also, do a google search for "gardenweb dry treat" & "gardenweb Akemi."


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RE: Marble with Clearstone pic

Thanks Romy for your awesome experiment and follow up posts. As I read through this thread and your findings, something occurred to me that had not been mentioned. You said with the Clearstone, your marble did not feel cold anymore. One of the things I love about my marble is that I can knead dough and roll out pie crusts (and fondant) without flouring the surface. To me, it's marble-magic! I'm guessing this would not be possible with the Clearstone. I wouldn't like it just for that reason. I have lots of etching on my 3 year old marble with ogee edges. I guess I have a "busy" kitchen. But I knew going into it that etches would happen, and if I absolutely hated them, I could have it re-honed at some point. The Clearstone was an interesting thought, and I'm glad to have learned from your information.


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RE: Marble with Clearstone pic

We did end up getting Clearstone. We spent a lot of money on a very exotic version of Calcutta with very white, white with brown veining (as opposed to grey that is typical) to match both our wood island, wood floors and white cabinets and we have lots of counter space with a large island. The counter tops look spectacular. I will say the Clearstone does mute the white a little bit (either slight yellow or grey) and so its not perfect. But etching is way worse in our opinion and my wife and I didn't want to fuss over sealants that needed to be redone all the time.

With so much money invested in the counter tops and the entertaining we do and our younger kids, we are glad we got the Clearstone. It was a boat load of money but nothing compared to the marble cost. The marble looks great as we were about to bring it to a high polish. Yes it loses some of its thermal capacity but there is zero etching. I don't knead dough so I couldn't care less about the cooler temperature. The counter tops and kitchen look incredible.

With two young kids my wife didn't want to worry about finessing over the counters.... and we absolutely abhor etching! We have had zero problems with Clearstone. We did have a marble vanity that we didn't treat and it already has a large circular etch. Disgusting. We have friends who built around the same time we built and they didn't seal their marble and there are etches everywhere and it looks really bad. They are going to resand and put Clearstone on. Etching is just a bad eye sore - especially if you have an entertaining kitchen and people are dropping by for wine and relaxing.

I fought the notion of spending money on Clearstone but we weren't going with granite or Quartz so it was to be marble. And Clearstone makes the kitchen so functional with young kids. Its crazy money but its by far the best sealant on the market and they know a marble customer has bucks already - so it goes.

This post was edited by duffydawg on Sat, Nov 1, 14 at 10:15


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RE: Marble with Clearstone pic

wow duffydawg you went for the clearstone-
Like I have always said-It has its pros and cons like any product.
'The clients we have done it for all seemed to love it-the etches are what drove them to it.
Best of luck with it.

This post was edited by srosen on Sun, Nov 2, 14 at 11:06


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RE: Marble with Clearstone pic

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGJa28cI8Y8

Cearstone now has Calcutta Nuvo in the US! I unfortunately built my house too late. I still like my version of Calcutta way more...but I am not sure if I would have gone with it had I had these type of new Engineered Stones on the market.

This will put a dent into ClearStone.


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