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9" vs. 12" drawer base cabinet, sink base size and 4.5" space

Posted by lovetogarden_oak (My Page) on
Fri, Sep 7, 12 at 13:44

Dear GW-ers,

I wish my scanner works and I could post my current layout for easy viewing. For now, I hope I can do a good job explaining the issue I need help with.

Our soon to be renovated kitchen is 127"x 103.5", L shaped.

The sink wall is 103.5" wide and has a big 65.5" window with a center stile. The stove wall is 23.5" to the left of the window. An exterior door to the deck is 14.5" to the right of the window. In short, the window is not centered and lop sided.

Thanks to hours of reading gardenweb, we had considered blind cabinet vs super susan vs. voiding the corner, and finally decided we would do a 36x33" super susan (the 33" is on the sink wall and the 36" is on the stove wall.)

So, the sink wall as it stands now will have a 33" (one side of the super susan), a 12" 4-drawer base, a 30" sink base, 24" DW and a remaining space of 4.5" that I would like to do something with.

I plan to store alum foil, ziplock, kitchen towel, and tupperware in the 4-drawer base.

The sink base will have a garbage disposal, air gap, air switch, soap dispenser, possibly insta-hot (maybe not, if space is too tight). Sink base also will keep trash, recycling and compost somehow (maybe those IKEA trash buckets). If I could keep few cleaning supplies like DW detergent, and a bottle of all purpose cleaner in sink base, I would be glad since there's no other cleaning supply storage in the kitchen and I will have to go downstairs to get them. It will be a PITA to do that daily.

We had considered a 33" sink base since we have that 4.5" space at the end run anyway.

But, here's the problem: If we put a 12" drawer base to the left of the sink base and a 33" sink base, the sink will be off centered from the window by 5". I did a mock up for it with blue painter tape, and I hated how that 5" off centered look. It gives me the hibby jibbies. I think it's because the window is already uncentered on the wall, and the sink being mostly to the right of the window looks fugly.

I guess we could get a new window (70" wide and no stiles!) and solve the problem this way, but that would be my last resort.

What is possible then is a 9" 4-drawer base + 33" sink base, or 12" 4-drawer base + 30" sink base. The sink will still be off centered from the center of the window by 3.5". After taping the dimensions as a mock up, I can live with it.

As I saw a kindred sink online that is 27" wide, hopefully, the size of sink will not be an issue even if we use the 30" sink base.

I am thinking that if we use the 12" drawer base instead of 9" drawer base to the left of the sink, we will have an additional 3" prep area for the L-run from stove wall to sink wall, and that will be helpful since we have a tiny kitchen.

As you can guess, I am leaning towards the 30" sink base. But I never had a 30" sink base and my concern is that such a small base will not be big enough to store all that I want to store in it. My concern about going with the 33" sink base is that the 9" drawer base will not be useful enough for storage.

So, what do you think? Should we use a 9" drawer base + 33" sink base? Or keep the 12" drawer base + 30" sink base? Which one will be more functional for storage?

Your insights will be greatly appreciated on this.

Also, any idea how to use that extra 4.5" space to the right of DW? There will be a panel (3/4") at the end of the run to hold the marble countertop. I think I could put small 3" pull out like from rev-a-shelf to store cookie sheets. How about for wine bottles? Is that a bad idea to store wine bottles there since it is next to a DW (heat and moist area)?

Thanks in advance for your kind help!


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: 9" vs. 12" drawer base cabinet, sink base size and 4.5" space

1) Select a sink first. This will help you decide whether you can live with a 30'' sink base. Mock it up if you can't see one in person and also make sure that the sink will fit in the smaller sink base.

2) Can you do a 12'' 3 drawer stack? At least you would have more depth to store things. I used to store Ziploc, saran wrap, etc in a 12'' 4 drawer stack and I always wished for more height.

3) My opinion is a 9'' 3 drawer stack is too narrow. Especially if you have face frame cabinets.

4) Would you consider a door cabinet instead to store cookie sheets, cutting boards, etc...


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RE: 9" vs. 12" drawer base cabinet, sink base size and 4.5" space

I think that small space next to dw would be bad for wine.

Use it for the dish soap storage, towels? make it maybe 2 pull outs - 1 for cutting boards or lids or cookie sheets. 1 for things like the soap, window cleaner. trash bags. There'll be a lot of uses for it.

do something like this as a double decker.

doube drawer 2  but separate gw 082009


buzzy0 2

or you could make 1 a pegboard pull out for a skillet or 2, larger cooking utensils (like for the grill), the oven racks not in use.


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RE: 9" vs. 12" drawer base cabinet, sink base size and 4.5" space

Thanks for your replies!

corgimum:
(1) good idea to mock up the sink. I like this one as it is the biggest one that I can find to fit a 30" sink base: http://www.kindred-sinkware.com/grfx/products/specs/KCUS30A_10-10BG.pdf

(2) Hm, 3 drawer stack for foil, etc. I should think about it again. I see what you mean that it would helpful to have one place to store all those ziploc boxes. My goal is to have shallow drawers so things are one layer. But, you are right, those ziploc bag boxes are about 4"tall.

(3) I was afraid that would be the case. We are getting frameless cabinet. My sense is that the inside space will be about 7.5" wide. Not much at all.

(4) I do have a 12" door cabinet on the stove side for storing griddle and waffle maker (originally for KA mixer, but we decided to create a recessed appliance nook at the corner where the stove wall and sink wall meet -- hope we won't regret that.) So, I would like a drawer base to store things that tends to be stacked like tupperware, ziplock, etc.

desertsteph: (love that name!)

I sure would love those pull outs you showed me. Alas, the smallest it comes is 9" for the base cabinet. Bummer for me since my remaining space is only 4.5" So frustrating.

Actually, with just 4.5" remaining and 3/4" will be an end-run panel and then another possibly 3/4" panel on the right of the DW, I will have only 3" opening to work with, unless I can find a 4.5" base cabinet pull out somewhere out there :) I envy those who has custom cabinets.

But, maybe I can do something like this filler pull out from rev-a-shelf: http://www.rev-a-shelf.com/p-446-filler-pullout-organizer-with-ball-bearing-soft-close-sink-and-base-accessories.aspx. Not sure how useful that is, maybe to store cleaning supplies?

Or, like you said, some small shelf to store grill or skillet or oven racks.

Thanks for confirming what I thought was a wishful thinking on my part re storing wine next to DW.

Still wondering though whether anyone have lived with a 9" 4-stack drawer or a 30" sink base and how useful or annoying that is.


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RE: 9" vs. 12" drawer base cabinet, sink base size and 4.5" space

Thanks for your replies!

corgimum:
(1) good idea to mock up the sink. I like this one as it is the biggest one that I can find to fit a 30" sink base: http://www.kindred-sinkware.com/grfx/products/specs/KCUS30A_10-10BG.pdf

(2) Hm, 3 drawer stack for foil, etc. I should think about it again. I see what you mean that it would helpful to have one place to store all those ziploc boxes. My goal is to have shallow drawers so things are one layer. But, you are right, those ziploc bag boxes are about 4"tall.

(3) I was afraid that would be the case. We are getting frameless cabinet. My sense is that the inside space will be about 7.5" wide. Not much at all.

(4) I do have a 12" door cabinet on the stove side for storing griddle and waffle maker (originally for KA mixer, but we decided to create a recessed appliance nook at the corner where the stove wall and sink wall meet -- hope we won't regret that.) So, I would like a drawer base to store things that tends to be stacked like tupperware, ziplock, etc.

desertsteph: (love that name!)

I sure would love those pull outs you showed me. Alas, the smallest it comes is 9" for the base cabinet. Bummer for me since my remaining space is only 4.5" So frustrating.

Actually, with just 4.5" remaining and 3/4" will be an end-run panel and then another possibly 3/4" panel on the right of the DW, I will have only 3" opening to work with, unless I can find a 4.5" base cabinet pull out somewhere out there :) I envy those who has custom cabinets.

But, maybe I can do something like this filler pull out from rev-a-shelf: http://www.rev-a-shelf.com/p-446-filler-pullout-organizer-with-ball-bearing-soft-close-sink-and-base-accessories.aspx. Not sure how useful that is, maybe to store cleaning supplies?

Or, like you said, some small shelf to store grill or skillet or oven racks.

Thanks for confirming what I thought was a wishful thinking on my part re storing wine next to DW.

Still wondering though whether anyone have lived with a 9" 4-stack drawer or a 30" sink base and how useful or annoying that is.


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RE: 9" vs. 12" drawer base cabinet, sink base size and 4.5" space

FWIW, I had a similiar dilemma and finally decided that the functionality of the space was more important than a visual of an off-centered window. The sink cabinet has been installed, but not the sink yet. I'm okay with it now, so hopefully I don't regret going function over looks once the sink is in...


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RE: 9" vs. 12" drawer base cabinet, sink base size and 4.5" space

Ours is 11 inches - thought I would hate it and wanted to switch to drawers - but it is working out great - Row 1 cutting boards, row 2 sink basters....


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RE: 9" vs. 12" drawer base cabinet, sink base size and 4.5" space

the rev a shelf one is similar in idea - it's just 1 pull out top to bottom tho. that'd drive me nuts to pull out the whole thing to get 1 item.

the pullouts in pics I posted could be done like the rev a shelf in a sense. those wire sides could be up higher or doubled to hold in cookie sheets. put yours up on their sides next to each other and measure the width of them. same with cutting boards. Maybe you could find someone locally to build the box part for you and maybe the front could be bought from your cab people? those I posted are basically just drawer boxes with a tall skinny front on 'em. They can be made skinnier than they are in the pics.

or maybe I'm just not used to having only a few of each of those things - lol! I don't even have a cookie sheet these days. I use a coated wire divider I bought at W in my bottom drawer for slots for a few pans and a lid. There isn't much room from wire to wire on those.

We have had a few on here put in their sinks not lined up with the above window. It probably was a function over form move on their part. That's the way I'd go. If things don't work for me, I won't like them anyway even if they look good.


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RE: 9" vs. 12" drawer base cabinet, sink base size and 4.5" space

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RE: 9" vs. 12" drawer base cabinet, sink base size and 4.5" space

Terrific picture of mpagmom's narrow base cabinet. Thanks for this tip, angela12345!

I think we'll stick with the 12" 4-drawer base as we currently plan.

I fear 9" 4-stack drawer will be too small a space to be really useful. I went to measure the Inner Most drawers in the HD store. The first three drawers are about 6" in height, and the last one pretty tall so I can stack tupperware.

As for the sink base, we'll gamble with the 30" and we hope it'll be at least big enough for the trash, recycling and compost + Garbage disposal. Hm, I wonder if it'll be big enough to also hold the insta-hot water heater and filter?

We can do what mpagmom did for our narrow 3" space and use that as cleaning supplies storage. We won't use it for wine storage :)

Thanks all for your input and insights!



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RE: 9" vs. 12" drawer base cabinet, sink base size and 4.5" space

Don't gamble with your 30" sink base cabinet. I did that with my 36" and now can't find a trash can to fit other than a teeny one. Measure now for your pipes, GD, how low the sink hangs, interior dimensions of this cabinet, etc.

What sink are you looking at for your 30" base ? Debr is also looking at sinks for 30" base in this thread that might help you ...
http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/kitchbath/msg091901073673.html


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RE: 9" vs. 12" drawer base cabinet, sink base size and 4.5" space

Thanks for the headsup, angela12345. I measured the GD and went to HD to measure the interior dimension of a 30" sink base cabinet.

My oh my, a 30" sink base is TINY! But, it will have to do for now. The 33" sink base has more space inside and I wish we could put it in our layout without my being so bothered. Sigh. Alas, I really can't stand how the spacing of the sink base is uneven in relation to the already lopsided window on the wall. It makes me feel I am living in the winchester mystery house!

So far, I have ascertained that it can hold our trash, recycle bin and compost pail, with a smidge of room left for fire extinguisher. Definitely no room for insta-hot water heater and filter. So, we nix that from our wish list.

I am looking for a single bowl undermount. After some online research, I found a kindred sink KCUS30A-10/10BG that I like but I don't know if it's available online or not. I wish I could use the ticor sink but the one I like needs a 33" sink base. Bummer.

The kindred sink I am interested in will have interior dimension of 27"W x 16"L x 10"H. I think that will work beautifully for washing my long-handled pans. Here's the specs: http://www.kindred-sinkware.com/grfx/products/specs/KCUS30A_10-10BG.pdf.

Hope Kindred is a good product.


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RE: 9" vs. 12" drawer base cabinet, sink base size and 4.5" space

Mrsjoe, would you be willing to send me a photo of the off-centered sink?

After "deciding" earlier on a 30" sink base, I am having a second thought because the 33" sink base looks surprisingly carvenous compared to the 30" sink base. And, maybe I should learn to not mind the off-centeredness.

My window has a center stile. So, when the sink base is 30", 12" of it will be to the left of the stile and 18" will be to the right of the stile.

If I use the 33" sink base, then it will be 12" to the left of the stile and 21" to the right of it. One would think a 3" shouldn't make much of a difference visually.

Alas, in my kitchen, since the window is already off centered on the wall (to the left of the window is 5" wall space, to the right of window is 14.5" wall space,) the off centered sink from the window is like another layer of off-centeredness. It's like "off-centered" times 2.

It is driving me crazy and I am not sure how to get pass that!


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RE: 9" vs. 12" drawer base cabinet, sink base size and 4.5" space

What happens if you center the sink on the window using a 36'' sink base? How much space is to the left and how much to the right?

Can you post a photo of your kitchen wall with the window on it? I tried drawing it out but got totally confused. You could get some great layout help here.


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RE: 9" vs. 12" drawer base cabinet, sink base size and 4.5" space

Here's the photo of the current kitchen with the blue painter's tape mocking up the proposed cabinetry. (Please ignore the fridge peeking out from that alcove on the stove wall. That whole stove wall will be pushed back 8" and the fridge will find a new home at the other side of the kitchen.)

The tape to the left of the window is the line how far the upper cabinet will come to. The uppers will be 13" deep along the stove wall.

Once the uppers are in, there will be 10" wall space to the left of the window (not 5" as I originally wrote on my earlier post), and 14.5" walls space to the right of the window. Ugh, I wish I could replace that alum window. That will be the next project...

Anyway, I digress.

The tapes on the base cabinet on the current sink wall shows the lazy susan 36x33, 12" base, sink cabinet and DW.

Here's the 30" sink base in relation to the lopsided window.
The sink base will start 12" to the left of the center stile and end 18" off to the right of the center stile.
Photobucket

And, here's the 33" sink base in relation to the window. The sink base will be 12" to the left of the stile and 21" to the right of the center stile.

Photobucket


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RE: 9" vs. 12" drawer base cabinet, sink base size and 4.5" space

Ahhh, I didn't mean to click submit yet... Here's a continuation of my post with pix of the 30" vs. 33" sink base.

Although there's only a 3" difference of the sink base, I notice the 33" is way more spacious than the 30". Thus, my hesitancy in committing to a 30" sink base.

Yet, as I said in my other post, the 33" sink base does add another level of lopsidedness in the lower area to the already lopsided upper area where the window is. Sigh.

Any idea how to solve this?


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RE: 9" vs. 12" drawer base cabinet, sink base size and 4.5" space

After looking it over, I think you are trying to put too much in a small area. I would suggest you go with a 36" wide base and just add a 3'' pullout to the left of it. This way you get a centered sink that is plenty big. I would also suggest that you leave some breathing room between the lower cabinets and the door. The drawing below shows what I mean. You gain more with a 36" sink than you gain with a 30'' or 33'' sink. From your initial post it sounds like you want to store a lot of things under the sink so hopefully 36'' gives you this ability. You may be able to find a door mounted ziploc/saran wrap holder. Here is one example:
http://www.amazon.com/Rubbermaid-Keepers-White-Wrapn-Organizer/dp/B0014CXC1C

Is 3/4" enough support for the countertop? I made it 2'' because I think it looks better alhthough I imagine you will have support along the back wall behind the dishwasher, too.

If you can post a floor plan of the whole kitchen and start a new thread you will probably get a lot of good ideas on how to organize your whole space.

Here is a link that might be useful: Rev-A-Shelf 3


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RE: 9" vs. 12" drawer base cabinet, sink base size and 4.5" space

Thanks, corgimum! I love how you did that drawing. I see what you mean about putting too much in too small a space.

And 2" for the countertop, that's a great point.

Yup, I should just start a new thread with my kitchen floorplan to get some ideas. It's not the first time I start over on this kitchen :)


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RE: 9" vs. 12" drawer base cabinet, sink base size and 4.5" space

Thank you so much to everyone who has responded to this post.

I would love to send you all an update and close the loop on this post. We ended up with the following setup in the finished kitchen:
1) 12" base cabinet to left of sink base.
2) sinkbase is 33" wide
3) replace the old window (that has a middle stile) to a wider bay window that has no stile. That made a huge difference! Even though the sinkbase, sink and faucet is a bit off centered in relations to the bay window, I really can't tell that they are.

Thank you again for your help!

I posted my finished kitchen reveal in GW kitchen forum last night. Link below (sorry, I don't know how to make the link appear here and not below the photo.)

Here is a link that might be useful: White Kitchen Reveal


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