Did you have the range at granite template & install? If so, they should have templated & fabricated it to fit properly.

If you did have the range, did you contact your granite fabricator to discuss this? I would not go through the GC as his perspective is, most likely, cheaper/faster (for him).

[I'm sure you've heard the old saying... "Cheaper/Faster/Better...but you can only have two of the three."]

Sorry....no way would I accept that. When they templated your granite, they should have known exactly where the cuts needed to be. You should not have a gap on each side that is more than can be easily filled with flexible caulk. I think maybe 1/8" would be the most I would accept. Someone needs to make this right for you!

Cindy

Is the gap vertical or horizontal? Previous posters are operating on the assumption that is horizontal between the edge of your countertop and the edge of the stove, based on what you have written I get the impression the space is between the cabs and the side of the stove and thus this response:

Is your stove slide in or stand alone? I was told there had to be 1\2 inch on either side between the sides of the cupboards and our stand alone stove (if stove is 30 the space between the cabs would be 31). The countertop should however cover that gap and be flush with the stove sides. I was told it was code as the oven gets hot (especially self cleaners) and cabs are made of flammable materials. We presently have more like a 1.5 inch gap which is awful and I thought like you the space between should be snug but I was told I was misinformed - like you our stove is 29 7\8ths and I made them make the stove opening 30 7\8 instead of 30 on the drawings because I want the opening as small as possible. I may be be misunderstanding but I don't see what the gap between the cabs has to do with your granite.

If I missed the boat please disregard and I echo the sentiments of the others.

Well, here's the problem...they will have to take up one whole side of the granite and b/s [push the stove over to one side] and make a new piece. I'm not sure how expensive that will be. I'm afraid also that they may damage my cabinets in doing so. When I questioned the granite guy, he said they install the granite 'flush' with the cabinets. Yes, my stove was on site but not in the kitchen. However, they knew how much of a cutout to make. I was told that the granite people did not bring the granite up to the stove, eliminating a gap. Okay, I can understand why the cutout might be 31" but I believe the granite should have had an overhang on both sides to fill in the gap. The gap is such that I can look straight down from the top of the stove and countertop and see my foot. The granite guy kept asking me what the GC said? It's like nobody wants to own up to making a mistake. I have black galaxy so it doesn't show up right away but when I'm in the kitchen, I can see it very clearly.

Sometimes, I just think, will I make the problem worse? What if they damage my cabinets and walls in the process? I know they are responsible but it's just a hassle. I never dreamed having a kitchen remodel would be so frustrating!

I'm no expert on this matter, but I tend to agree with the other posters-- this is simply not right. You should not have a half-inch gap between the counter and the sides of the stove. If that were standard, we'd all be pulling our stoves out every weekend just to clean up all the food and trash that would fall down into the space.

I'm assumming the project is considered "complete" by the GC and therefore already completely paid-for...? If that is the case, you probably have an even bigger fight on your hands, but this is not something I would let drop. You paid good money for a service, and that service was not done properly. Do NOT drop this with your GC until he fixes the problem. Start out nice, but if you have to, get pushy. Tell him to be careful, because if he ruins your cabinets, he will be paying for those as well. Take pictures right now and document the process. If he is uncooperative, I would take this as far as the Better Business Bureau. But that's just me...

I'm not sure you should have to pay for this...the granite people (or GC, if you paid him & not the granite people) should pay for it. If your range was available, they should have asked to either have it brought out or at the very least measured it at templating. As long as you didn't tell them no, then I cannot see how this is your fault. (Now, if your GC intervened and told them no, then he's at fault, not you.)

In our old kitchen, our slide in range had much less than 1/2" b/w it and the counter. I can't measure it now (nor do I have a close up pic), but I do remember that we rarely had anything fall b/w the sides of the range & the counter b/c the gap was so small.

Yes, cabinet damage is possible, but again, they (or your GC) should be held responsible since it was their (or his) fault in the beginning. I am very sure that no matter who it is, they will push back...so, stand firm! Don't get angry or yell & shout...but speak firmly with the "I will brook no opposition" type of tone of voice. Hopefully, you haven't made your final payment...consider withholding it (check your contract to see what it says).

In the end, this is all up to you. Do you care enough to go to battle for it? (I think you do...) If you decide to fight for your vision, then do it! Good luck! (Oh, and we'll be here for moral support, at least!)

The fault lies with the GC who made too large an opening for the range. THe granite was templated correctly. There is no overhang on granite next to a range. The granite is cut flush to the cabinets. Since the cabinets are too far apart, the problem lies with their install, and it should be your GC who pays for the granite to be removed and the cabinets to be reinstalled correctly. Having the granite recut to have an overhang over the cabinets adjacent to the range will look extremly awkward and still leave you with too large a gap between the range and the cabinets.

Clearly I misunderstood but I disagree with live wire oak - I was told opening between the cabs should be about an inch larger than the stove but countertop should have been templated to bridge the gap and butt up against the stove. The 1.5 inch space we have between the sides of the oven and the sides of the cabs is stupid but with the counter flush with the stove top it doesn't look unusual. I do agree that pushing the stove to one side and fixing one side of the granite will look odd and is not an acceptable solution.

Unfortunately, I have paid the GC in full [my mistake there]. He knows I'm unhappy and he and the cabinet guy are supposed to come by tomorrow evening to replace 2 cabinet doors that got damaged. I know he'll definitely try to get around this. I'm just so frustrated with the whole ordeal from the very beginning. Nobody will own up to making any mistakes. Whenever I say.."How come my old cabinets didn't look..." I don't get a straight answer. And yes, I have thought very much about the Better Business Bureau and reporting him if this issue is not resolved to my satisfaction. I'm a single woman and I feel like 'we' get taking advantage of because of that. If I had a husband here raising cane, I bet they would have responded better to my complaints. Now, some family members say it looks fine. No big deal...but to me, I don't like it:) I'm picky; I like things done right. I guess I just can't believe that the GC thinks it's fine.

I'm not sure if it's the GC's fault or the templater's fault as I was at work when this was measured. Since my range was in the other room until the very end of the renovation, I had NO idea that there would be gaps on both sides. Afterall, who is the professional here?? Why am I paying a GC if I need to know what's going on each day?? Trust me, if I had known that, I would NOT have allowed the granite to be installed. I would have made them take it back and have them re-do another slab. But, I didn't know until the very end. The GC wasn't here that day but the foreman came by to check things out. I told him I didn't like it. I guess they were hoping that I would just accept it the way it is.

We'll see what they say tomorrow. I almost feel like they are ganging up on me:) Well, neither of them [cabinet guy & GC have been here at the same time. Also, does anybody know if the range is supposed to be the same height as the countertops? Mine isn't. The range is a little bit higher.

Thanks for the encouragement as I will need it.

Live Wire Oak is correct. There is no countertop overhang next to the range. The cabinets were installed too far apart.

Here is a link that might be useful: Range Installation

this 1/2 inch gap is ridiculous and just shotty work.. you dont need 1/2 on either side of the stove.. you need to make the opening to the dimensions required by the manufacturer... unless you have extremely flamable cabinets for some reason? that should generally be 30" for a 30" stove.. what is the brand and model number of your stove? get your installation manual or look it up online to see what they say..

i agree with live wire oak.. without having the stove in place how was the granite fab supposed to know that the GC placed the cabinets too far apart.. they make the granite to fit on top of the cabinet..

just my two cents..

Is yours a gas range? Specs may be different and please know I was elated at being wrong and was going to have it changed in my layout but if you look at attached specs the opening at the counter is 30 inches roughly 1\8th larger than stove but on this model they are calling for 4 inches from the "sides of the range to side wall or other combustible material" on each side (how crazy is that!). We are not getting this range thank goodness. Good advice is to check your specs but don't assume it should be snug to cabinets as that may not be reccomended by the manufacturer.

Here is a link that might be useful: specs for install on a whirlpool electric range

Don't drink and post people, 4 inches is to a sidewall - on the other specs for gas range it is 5" and they mean at cook top height (phew because we did buy a Whirlpool just not that one). However spec sheet does indicate that their should be 7\8 between the cut out and cabinet door or hinge. Not an issue if you have inset cabs or face frames but if you have frameless cabs you would require a larger opening between the cupboards than you would have at the countertop, which is what I was told. Frameless is mostly all you see in Canada so what the installer advised me was dead on but may not apply in this case.

However spec sheet does indicate that their should be 7\8 between the cut out and cabinet door or hinge.

I don't think that's a safety thing but an allowance for the thickness of the door (most usually about 3/4'' thick) so that the door can open--should the hinge side be next to the range. Notice that they don't say anything about allowing 7/8'' for a drawer.

With full overlay doors and/or frameless cabs, then you would, presumably, need a narrow filler or extended stile base on a door that hinges next to range situation.

I don't know anything about the gaps, but others seem to be battling it here. I just wanted to address your other question about the height of the range. Your range has feet on it that are adjustable. It can be lowered (hopefully) to be flush with your counter. Unfortunately, my floor guy tiled under where my range is but the tile does not go under the cabinets. My range is lowered as far as it can go and is still a little over an inch higher than my counters. Just not something that was considered when my floors were put in. Dang.

I Hope you get your other issues resolved to your satisfaction. Do you have a male relative or friend or husband of a friend who could be there with you when you talk to your GC? Even another female friend for support might be helpful. Don't let them bully you, stand firm!

Good luck!

Rainey can you post a pic so we can see it?

"With full overlay doors and/or frameless cabs, then you would, presumably, need a narrow filler or extended stile base on a door that hinges next to range situation."

I concede the safety issue was pure hyperbole on the part of the installer and the stile or filler would be an appropriate finish to conceal the fact that the opening at the base is and should be larger than the opening at the countertop (I'm not sure your correct about it being just an issue of mechanics as they do specify door or hinge but with the predominance of concealed hinges you may be right). It probably is not applicable here though it does open the door for the possibility that in this case the fault could lie with the templating - I agree with buehl that they should have looked at the stove. Introducing fillers would certainly solve the problem below the countertop (of course you would still have a kick plate issue) though that understandably seems like a rather minor concern.

My stove is electric. I mentioned the height thing to my GC and he said it can be lowered and he would do that for me. He also explained that he 'always' installs the stove a little bit higher than the countertops. I'm not too concerned about that, just mainly the gaps on either side of the stove.

I will try to download a pic tonight as I'm at work now.
I did take pics of the stove and countertop for my proof if needed at a later date:)

I wish I would have found this site way before I had my kitchen remodeled. Oh well, you live and learn

Hey raineygirl,

Do you have frameless cabs (if not this has no impact on your problem)? Given the way interior hinges work you wouldn't need 7\8 for the hinges to operate properly (or you would have to have 7\8 between your cabs) I think they suggest this gap because of the heat release from opening the oven door would be right at the cabinet door if it butted up against your oven and intense temperature change is not good for wood and could cause warping or alter the finish appearance (a stile or face frame would be recessed back fom the oven door opening more than the door or drawer front is). Just a guess.

It may not have helped you avoid the problem at best probably just catch it sooner. I'm sure it will work out.Good luck with the meeting.

I have designed PLENTY of kitchens with both full overlay and frameless cabinets with a 30" range opening with zero issues. More space than 30" around a range is NOT needed. Ranges are deeper than the adjoining cabinetry and well insulated, very little heat actualy escapes. And, a properly designed kitchen will have any doors that abut a range hinge on the opposite side. But, even with the doors of a frameless or full overlay framed cabinet opening against a range, you can still access most of the cabinet quite easily--unless you have roll out trays. All you need is a "hinge stop" to prevent the doors from banging the range.

The contractor made an error. It should be up to him to fix.

No, I don't have frameless cabinets. As far as I know, the GC didn't ask for any of the manuals to check the specs on my appliances. Somebody told me that as long as the range was on site, the fabricator should have measured the range and made his measurement for the cutout regardless of the cabinets. So, I don't know??? I do know that most people DO NOT have a large gap by the stove so I'm confused as to why mine is this way.

Live Wire Oak...do you also install cabinets? Thanks for your comments. I agree, the contractor should have caught this right away. When I questioned him about the 'standard' size for the cutout, he said there isn't a standard size really because there are many different sized ranges. I think he was dancing around the truth:) He knows he screwed up! He was just hoping that I wouldn't mind it. Well, I DO MIND>

Last kit, granite and slide in. They actually had to buzz off a slight bit on the opening edges to slide range all the way back. This kit free standing and soapstone and I have an extremely tight fit. No gaps. This was two different fabricators.

raineygirl, I'm a KD. None of my designs spec anything other than a 30" opening for a 30" range. If you had a designer, they are the ones who messed up, and if not, your GC was the one. The granite installers did nothing wrong. They templated the granite to the cabinets that existed there with no overhang next to the range, just as they were supposed to do. (There's no overhang next to a fridge either.) Your GC can't blame this on the granite guys.

So sorry this happened. I'm pretty sure Either your GC or your granite installers should have brought the range over into the kitchen. I didn't know any better at the time, but was luckier. When my granite was templated, my range was in it's box in the garage. My granite installers said "please un-box it and bring it into the kitchen so we get it exactly. We've found this prevents unhappiness later on."

RaineyGirl...I'm the one that said the templaters should have measured the range...but I was wrong. Live_Wire_Oak is a much better source for this type of information.

Here's a picture of mine. I wasn't expecting any space either, but what I ended up with is no space on one side (it looks like there is, but that's because of the beveled stainless edge) and a little over a 1/4" on the other. The side that worries me actually is the side with no space because stuff can get stuck that will be hard to get out between the beveled edge of the stainless and the counter. I haven't decided if I care to ask about centering it. I don't know how much energy I have left. No one will pay any attention except me.

- Jim

How can I include a pic on this site?

While it may "NOT" be necessary in the US an extra inch for the opening is required in Canada (see attached specs) where raineygirl does not live (so it isn't remotley pertinent) and where it is crystal clear live wire oak does not design kitchens.

My apologies raineygirl I think my contribution\interference while well intentioned may have diverted things from the real issue which is, we now know, your incorrectly installed cabs as well as granite (which you did know). Again, my best wishes for a swift and positive resolution that doesn't involve ripping up your new kitchen. I don't know dims of appliances but any chance you could find a stove that would fit the opening? On your contractors dime of course. Good luck.

Here is a link that might be useful: note difference in opening for Canada

No problem caryscott, it's good to hear all comments. True, I do not live in Canada so the 30" would be the correct cutout. After much consideration and obession about the gaps, I think I'm going to 'try' and live with it:) I have a small galley kitchen and they would have to literally rip out the granite and b/s to correct the gaps. At this point, I'm just 'tired' and want this all behind me. My son & DIL thinks it's fine the way it is. I've just never seen that much space between the counters and stove before. The thought of going through all that again is upsetting. Maybe down the road, I'll get a slide in stove which has the outer edge [lip] on either side. I know that I'm letting this guy off the hook by not insisting that he correct the problem. There's just so much work involved to do that and I know he would fight me on that. I feel like I'm whimping out...guess I am:)

Hey Raineygirl, I totally feel your concern about food particles falling between the stove and cabinet. Because I get paranoid about that too(my current stove has the gap, and I always have to be extra careful when food boils over). I just started kitchen reno project planning, and I will be keeping close eye on any gaps that might be created between new stove and the cabinet. have you checked out counter trim kit? It will be perfect for your situation. they have various colors including black that will fill in the gap that you currently have. check them out!
www.vanceind.com/countertrimkit.aspx

Here is a link that might be useful: countertrimkit here

opps, I meant stainless steel trim kit, not black color(just noticing that your stove edge is stainless steel, not black). I noticed they have different color variety of counter trim kits on Ebay anywhere from $9- $18.00. Feel free to check out the feedbacks on the item. I hope it works out for you :)

I'm sorry but that's shoddy work, unacceptable. I don't care what this job cost, that's not the point however it is the GC's responsibility to make it right.

Oy. Oy. Oy. I am sorry about this. We have all been there. My contractor was SO specific about our range opening being exactly 30 1/8. He warned me countless times to be SURE that the countertop templater plans for exactly that amount. As it turned out, among other things, our countertop guy screwed that up as well, but as i had been so adamant about the correct measurement all along, the ended up making a new stove stick so that our range would fit snugly. I spent i dont know how much time measuring and recalculating with the countertop guys to get that damn stove cutout to be right on all sides. I only knew to do that because of my blessed contractor.
I fear that , now that your granite is already done, it is perhaps too late? But GC should be kissing your feet right now and making restitution.

good luck
LC

While I don't think it is acceptable I really think you are doing the best thing, I can't imagine getting through the reno once then having to do a lot of it over again even if you are right (and you are). I think you should still hit him up for a contribution to a new stove but I respect why you probably won't bother. Is the rest of your kitchen in the Finished Kitchen Blog? We have spent all this time talking about this problem and we haven't seen the rest of your kitchen. Please post it here or there when you have a chance.