Their recommendations are for those who hand wash their dishes, not use a DW. Standing for an extended period and bending down into a sink is really tough on your back. I've had 3 back surgeries, and wouldn't dream of hand washing my dishes any more. (That's DH's job!) If you keep loading your DW as you go instead of stacking everything to the rim, your back will thank you.

GreenDesigns, there was no distinction made either way. Beise what else is a sink used for besides washing whatever is in there? Should I give up erogomics for convenience of temporary "storage hideaway"?

hiding things from view.

an important function of a deep sink.
hiding things from view is an important function of many other things too.

partial hiding.
when you get closer you can see more, and this compromise is perfect.

these days, dishwashers are designed to be store and hold devices, and also to wash dishes when told to. Some people get two dishwashers. Some dishwashers have removable cutlery trays.

is people hand wash only a few things and not whole meals, the sink grid is the drying rack.

i don't know how the nkba will deal with reality as things change.

Pros of deep sink: it splashes less, IMHO. It fits larger pots and pans and makes washing larger pots and pans easier.

I only hand wash large stuff ie cookie sheets, pots that cook a pound of pasta, dutch oven etc. I don't stack dirty dishes in the sink. As we clear the table, we stack the dishes on the counter, not in the sink. (I have an acre of counter space so this seems most efficient to me. I also make sure the counter spaces around the sink is clear not full of appliances.

If we are going to pull it out to put in the DW immediately, why bother. I don't really use my sink to hide. I try to put things into the DW immediately. I try to wash as I go when I am cooking.

I suggest that you go to showrooms and stand and pretend that you are working. (take your tape measure) Put your hands in the sink, make motions of working. With some sinks, it was obvious to me that it was too deep. I could not tolerate 10 inch deep. I looked for 8 inch and could not find it easily. I settled on 9 inch and raise it a tad with a grid.

I did not give the ergonomics away because I stand in front of the sink for 30 minutes or more cleaning after EVERY dinner. All dishes have to be put in the DW, all pots/pans/bowls/cutting boards etc cleaned and put away. Time yourself while cleaning after your daily dinner. This is how long you will be in front of the sink no matter how new/old your kitchen is.

I dry with a towel and put away immediately. I don't want to see drying dishes OR have to come back later to finish the job.

Remember, if you undermount, you have to account for the depth/height of the counter plus the sink.... 2 inch thick counter plus 10 inch deep sink = 12 inch deep functional sink.

I can't believe that's the rec for sink depth. I've had 7 inch depth and not been able to wash large pots or pans without a problem. Not to mention the splashing. I have a 10 inch depth and don't care if I am hand washing or using the DW, I wouldn't go to anything less than 9 inches. My prep sink is 9 inches and the utility room sink will be too when I get to change it out.

Davidrol, what reality are you speaking about?

Kaismom, I can understand getting a wider bowl, but how does the deeper bowl work better for larger pans? Is it the erogomics or the splashing or both?

We are strongly considering a net 8" depth. Not quite what the NKBA/ANSI recommend but not so deep as GWers often suggest. Being that it will be the intergrated corian sink, it won't be easy/inexpensive to change later.

How deep would you recommend for a prep sink or does it even matter?

Our sink is a total of 8" deep and I like it. It is shallower than our previous sink. I get splashed less because it is a little further in from the counter than our old one was. I used to have a wet belly every time I used the old one, but now I am dry. Due to... er... anatomy, I can't see my stomach so sometimes did not realize I was walking around with wet spots until I passed a mirror.

I'd definitely recommend a set back sink as more important than other considerations. We pulled our cabs our from the wall by approx 3" so our sink starts about an inch further back than most.

anything new, anything that develops. That is now reality.

Any association will be slower than "reality". They have to call meetings, debate, and vote.

I also don't get deep sinks. I don't stack dishes in the sink, they live briefly on the counter next to the sink before going in the dishwasher. Large pots and pans get washed in the sink, but they are things that may need some scrubbing. A deeper sink is still hard on your back whether you are washing a few pots or a lot of dishes, and it really seems to me that 8" (especially in an undermount) is plenty deep enough to prevent spashes. 6 1/2 does seem a bit shallow, but I'd never want deeper than 8".

Dianalo, what is the standard setback? All the reading I've done, I would have thought I would have come across it.

I have heard about the height to depth being a big culprit for splashing but what is the sweet spot?

The smaller sink is only 5" net deep. Too shallow to be of any use? I want to go with corian because I LOVE the integrated look but their selection is limited.

Here is a link that might be useful: 70/30 Corian Sink

Funny that you wanted your sink set back farther, dianalo, and the thing I've noticed - and am not too keen on - is the greater distance between inside of sink and counter edge for undermount sinks. My topmount sink is 3.5" back from the counter edge. I've seen sinks in new and remodeled homes set back as much as 6" from the edge. To me, that's as much of an issue as a deeper sink. If I have to lean over farther and then reach in deeper to lift something, it's a problem.

I plan to request to have my sink installed as far forward as possible. I'd rather put up with a dampish belly than an aching back any day.

I have a 10" sink that is undermounted so it works out to about 11.5" I went deeper because I only have 17" interior square due to counterspace. I do get a backache if I am washing things at the bottom of the sink, and I am only 5'5''.

I have noticed this at my parents when I wash in the very deep 12" untility sink too.

I plan on a 7-8" sink in the next kitchen but a very large one.

Part of accessibility probably has to do with small and partially disabled users and reach, but I this would not be considered universal access. I think splashing is less about the sink alone than the sink and faucet together.

"I can understand getting a wider bowl, but how does the deeper bowl work better for larger pans?" It's basic geometry - a deep sink allows for bigger frying pans, cookies sheets or platters to be washed at an ANGLE without splashing water everywhere. I am short (5'2'') and love a deep sink. My current one is 9''. and I would not want it any shallower. I do not stack dirty dishes in it (dishes in the sink is my pet peeve actually) and I don't find it difficult to wash some of the dishes by hand in the sink. I don't have an issue with this and have never understood why this is a complaint of some people. I guess I don't leave the item on the bottom of the sink but am holding it in my hand as I wash it...

That's my .02 - FWIW.

Oh and I have an intergrated Corian sink in my bathroom and love it. Because it is intergrated, it is super easy to clean - no gunk around the edges.

One of my *biggest* regrets after remodeling our kitchen was the deeper sink than before. I don't know what it was before but now it is 9.5" - 10" deep depending on where you measure it. Terrible on the back, and DH refuses to wash even one dish in it now. I agree that setting it back away from the edge would create the same back problem.

While we wash most things in the DW, there will always be handwashing of odd items on a daily basis or crystal, silverware, etc. after parties.

aloha, you are so smart to be thinking about these things before, rather than having regrets after.

NewSouthernBelle brings up a good point. She mentions her height, and that may be the key as to whether a deep sink is comfortable or not. I'm 5'5" so if we were standing next to each other at the sink, I would have to reach down (and bend down) 3 more inches. A 6' man would have to reach down approx. 10" more than Belle.

Sink depth (and other design issues) was so important to us that we ended up going with a custom sink. We wanted no deeper than 8" from the top of the countertop after testing out various depths for comfort and how much it would hold. We found we did a lot of actions that require reaching the bottom of the sink (dealing with the drainer, cleaning the sink, picking up or putting down a flat plate on the bottom of the sink, etc, etc), some of which, but not all, can be done by raising the bottom with a grid or bin placed on a riser.

We rented a condo two summers in a row same one and it had a very deep sink probably 9-10 inches plus granite. It splashed a lot and was annoying!! I thought it was because of how far the water had to drop, it didn't have the pull down faucet it was the pull out type, a Delta I think. I'm about 5'4" and it was hard on my back even not washing dishes but rinsing something out or loading DW from it or washing pans too big to put in the DW. I disliked the extra depth very much. It was just too deep for my preference. I like my Corian sink depth it is about 7 or 7 and a half inches deep. YMMV We are getting granite in the near future and I will miss this Corian sink but just read last night on GW about the 70/30 Silgranite Cascade and feel cheered up! Didn't want stainless, porcelain etc. Thanks!

I'm 5'3" and DH is 5'8". I can't imagine how difficult it must be for a tall person.

I'm hearing from several of you though that the 8" is kind of the best of erogomics and usefulness.

I realized when I started this thread that GW as a whole is pro deeper sinks but little has been said about the NKBA/ANSI recommendations. They are not so far out of touch that they don't realize that the average person has a DW. You might not always agree with them but they do have strong reasons behind their recommendations.

You've hit the proverbial nail on the cliched head.

It has nothing to do, really, with how deep the sink is. It has to do with how tall the people are/how long their arms are. Just like the standard test for counter height for chopping is a measure down from your elbow, the test for sink height should be measured by where your fingers are. When standing up really straight, not hunched or bending and with your shoulders back, your fingertips should be comfortable resting on the bottom of the sink, at the least. That's for clean-up. Ideal prep is much shallower--the best for that is where you can lift a carrot without extending your arm down more than 45 degrees at the elbow. That means you can lift things out of the sink easily without bending and without changing your arm position (limits fatigue and makes the task go faster). Compromise is somewhere between the two.

For me, I love my fingertip-length deep clean-up sink, which is 11" under counter, on my lower counter (36.5"). I don't stack things high in it, but I can put my biggest stockpots in it, and a huge enamel dishpan and all kinds of other things. As someone noted above, it is a bit too deep for a lot of handwashing of small items, which I do infrequently. I use the sink grid and dishpan to raise tableware just a little. Most of the time, my hand washing is pots and mixing bowls, and most of them are heavy. I find it easiest to manipulate heavy pots with my arms nearly extended in the deeper sink, than having to hold them up and out in a shallower sink.

I don't know about NKBA/ANSI's reasoning. I do know that I hate washing dishes in a commercial sink because it's way too low and I have to bend over(and we never have huge kettles there, just standard serving platters and bowls, and occasional sheet pans), and I love the shallow end of my trough prep sink which is only a few inches under the 38" counter.

Plllog, I don't know if I'm doing your fingertip test wrong, but I can't see how 11" could be comfortable for anyone. Mine was around 6" so that would be a difference of 5". The prep was about 2". What am I not measuring correctly?

Our sink is a vintage kind that you may see with legs, but we have it top mounted on our counter. Our sink bowl's interior is 5.5" back from the edge of the counter. The 8" depth is misleading because that is from the top edge of the sink which is 1.5" above the counter. So the depth is actually 6.5" below the counter. The above the counter built up part of our sink may also be helping to keep me drier. That is 1.5" more of a barrier to splashing. I am just under 5'5" and I wear low padded shoes when cooking, if anyone is trying to compare what they'd want for their size.

When I first started using this sink, it felt very shallow compared to what I was used to. The bottom is higher up than our previous sink by a noticeable amount. I got used to the new sink easily. This one is also less wide than before, which is its only downside, but it is not a biggie. If I could tweak it, I'd only make the bowl a little wider. Everything else it has I prefer to our old large sink that was deeper. I thought I was giving up function for looks (the one place I was willing to), but it turns out, it works better for us.

I like how it encourages me to do the dishes sooner. There is less room in the bowl to let things pile up. Since they need doing sooner or later, sooner is working out fine. We put most things in the dw, but have at least a pot or 2 each night that needs hand washing. I used to have to move a dirty dish or2 out of the way to drain pasta or wash veggies. Now, it stays clearer than it used to be.

Having an integrated sideboard is also much nicer than having a drying rack/basket out on the counter. When it is empty, it extends the counter, which is esp nice if I have a colander with something draining and need to use the bowl. I can fit my washed stuff to dry on it easily and I let it all drip dry for a bit before putting away. The downhill slope into the sink is priceless. I love having less gook around the sink to clean. Since the edges are built up, less stuff gets around the sides like the old regular top mount sink. I also love the wall mount faucet and how much easier it is to keep clean. No gook around the deck plate like before.

I know a vintage type sink is not for every kitchen, but for those who are considering it but are worried about depth/size (interior bowl is 15.75" front to back by 18.5" wide), I can vouch for how well it functions. I know everyone on GW raves about a huge sink, but ours works just fine in our house, and we don't even have a prep sink. We have a 60" total wide fridge and freezer set and that extra size is greatly needed/appreciated. I could not go back to a normal size fridge. To each his own.

HTH

Hm... Aloha, I don't know. :\

I just stand in front of the sink and put my hand down inside, touching the bottom.

The measurement is from the bottom of the sink to the top of the counter, if that wasn't clear. Not actually measuring where one touches. Standing up straight is to have a reproducible result. Generally one does bend a little to reach across a sink, no matter the depth. Having to bend too much, however, is what causes a lot of fatigue and even backache.

I'm 5'8", and have proportionate arms, perhaps a little long. If you're shorter it doesn't necessarily put you closer to the bottom of the sink if your arms are shorter too. That's the point of doing the fingertip test. If you're very tall, even if your arms are long for your height, the sink might be way too low for you in a standard counter height, and a six inch deep might be a lot more comfortable to use.

The 2" for the prep sink does have me thinking that the measure wasn't quite right. What you're looking for is to have the bottom of the sink at or above the height where your hand is halfway between being bent at the elbow parallel to the floor, and hanging straight down. I can imagine 2" for the very tall, but...

BTW, splashing is a combination of angle of the water as it hits the sink (straight down splashes more than angled), the shape of the sink (certain curves reflect the water right back up or ricochet to the side), and force of the water pressure (less force carries less energy into the reflection making it splash less). It has very little to do with height of faucet or depth of sink.

BTW2, it's perfectly possible to wash a big pot in a shallow sink if one has a tall faucet. That does tend to splash more because the top of the pot is sticking up above the top of the sink so any refection off the upper portion of the pot is going to escape.

my undermonted sink ends up with its sink bottom being 8.5" to 9" from the top edge of the countertop which is 2cm quartz without any plywood building it up.

We had a shallower sink and now we have a deep sink. My way of washing dishes, with both sinks, is to pick up items out of the sudsy water and sponge them out while holding them. I rarely scrub items while they are at the bottom of the sink. When I have a particularly difficult item to scrub, I usually put it on the counter as I work on it (same when I had the shallower sink.) I love our deep sink with high arching faucet. It's so much easier to manipulate items in this sink than in our old sink. I used to have to snake items around the faucet. I can now hold stock pots above the suds while I rinse them. And I'm happy to have a place to quickly throw my cooking dishes at the last minute when I'm trying to get dinner on the table.

Your decision should be based on the way you use the sink.

I still miss the 12 inch deep sink left behind in another kitchen, and would install another given the chance.

It allows for dumping of large pots without making a mess, and the same goes for clean up.

Both of us are on the short end of height (SO is under 5 feet) so no real bending is required to pick items up from the bottom of the sink.

It comes down to what you want in your kitchen.
I do most of the clean up and never had a problem.

Note of clarification: The fingertip test is just for picking small things up from the bottom of the sink, or scrubbing the bottom of a pot.

Zelmar reminds us that if you clean a lot of small things that are sitting on the bottom of the sink, fingertip deep is likely much too deep.

Keep in mind that those are nothing more than guidelines. Use them as a starting point and adjust to suit your needs. At the end of the day, sink depth is one of those personal things. If the guidelines work for you then follow them. If not, do what you like. Even more important than these guidelines are building codes. Most building codes were formulated with safety in mind. If the building codes don't dictate a sink depth, then do what feels right to you.

We visited our 94 year old relative today (the one with the 1940s house built without a dining room and a tiny alcove for the eat-in area) and I snapped a photo of her sink. Depth is about 6" from the top of the countertop.

I enjoy doing dishes at this sink - it's so easy on the back. You can't hide anything in it, of course. It also has an offset drain.

I want the sink below really bad, installed as a cleanup sink. Too late now and complete overkill, but I still like it.

We had a 9.5" deep drop in, with a grid on the bottom and it was still too deep to scrub pots. And we ended up with a lot of water on the walls.

We went back to an 8" deep sink. Its the ikea fire clay one. It also has splashing issues + the faucet is too far back for me, about ?two inches? further than "normal".

I think elkay does a good thing in offering a fair number of their sinks in multiple depths and some with differing drain locations.

I'll go against the flow and say if you dump pots of boiling water into your prep sink - deeper is better.

Here is a link that might be useful: Oceanview floor sink

I am 5'2" and have a 10" sink, plus c-top. I adore my crazy deep sink! I was miserable in our rental house last year with a 7" divided sink. I couldn't fit anything I needed to hand wash in there! Spray splashed everywhere when I was cleaning my big spaghetti pot...I even had trouble with 13 x 9 pans because of the divider. If dh ever washed a dish, I might have gone a tad shallower sine he is 6'4"...but it isn't snowing in hell :) so I got the sink that suited me!