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amck2

I Am So Very Disheartened

amck2
9 years ago

Some of you may remember that I began planning a kitchen remodel shortly after the holidays. Originally it was going to be a DIY facelift spurred by my need to replace my range which hadn't worked for nearly 2 yrs. I also wanted to replace the OTR with a hood vent.

Lots of you kindly responded with suggestions on how to paint, retrofit the countertops and make my pantry cab work better with shelving, etc. Then the fridge began to fail & DH said we should bite the bullet and hire someone to come in for a full remodel. Our home was spec and while we had upgraded many components, the kitchen cabs were builder grade.

I got a great plan from a recommended KD in early April and signed on with the understanding our job would be done in summer so we and our dogs could vacate and live at our place at the lake. KD sent her team of trades to look over the job, we got our estimates and put down a hefty deposit the beginning of May.

KD had said there were 3 jobs to complete before ours, so it might be a couple months before our start date. Come late June I checked in & was told some jobs were running over so we might be starting mid-July. End of July (after no communication) DH & I set up a meeting to ask how we should proceed in arranging in scheduling the floor guys and painter to coordinate with her contractor.

We were disappointed to learn that her guy could not get in until Sept. 2, but we arranged for our flooring guy and painter to do the upstairs first & moved out 2 wks. ago. We heard nothing more from KD so phoned & emailed last week to assure Tues. was still the start date (our floor guy needed to schedule to come lay the sub floor when old cabs were removed.

The note came back saying, so sorry - he can't start till next week the 8th.

Two days ago we tried to confirm the 8th IS the day, and this morning we get a brief note - no explanation - saying no, it's going to be September 16th!

I began this process with KD before Easter. She has held a big deposit since May and we have nothing. I don't feel confident that my work will actually start on the 16th, based on past history. And I'm worried that if it does start I'm going to be left hanging right through holiday season with an incomplete kitchen and unable to move back home. We have my son's family visiting from overseas for 2 weeks at the beginning of November.

Living at the lake is a real problem now. DH planned his vacation time here around her original schedule of when work would be done. DH's work commute is increased by 2 hrs. each day and I have to drive 1 1/2 to check-in and run errands for my elderly father.

I want to simply be done with this. I've bought my new appliances (had to pay balance in full because they've been holding them since March!) and I just want to move them in and figure out what to do with the kitchen next year after the holidays.

Sorry for the rant, but I am beside myself.

Comments (47)

  • ardcp
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    that really sucks and is not the norm at all. any way you can take delivery of your cabinets and find another installer? the kd sounds like a flake to me.

  • bellsmom
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I can't offer any suggestions, but this really is the pits. I am sorry that the excitement of the project is so tarnished by the KD's procrastination. I would HATE to have had to cope with this. I will hope that the 16th brings results.
    Would it be a good idea to send your KD a link to to this site?

  • 1929Spanish
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I feel for you. We had a small design/build firm do our addition. They had done work for us before so we were confident in them. We waited for a year to get started on our project, we expected to wait six months. Because they were a small firm, we knew it might happen.

    The upside is we got to save more money while we waited. And we were really happy with the results when it was all done.

  • Errant_gw
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    This would be so frustrating! I'm sorry you're having to go through this.

    One concern I haven't seen mentioned is that you have already paid all of the new appliances. I've had friends who had a lengthy delay on install of new appliances, only to find out they were non-working or damaged in some way, yet the return window had already closed. Something you might want to think about!

  • Mags438
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Have you determined the KD's contractors are 'worth' waiting for? Have you seen their work, etc etc. Do you have a contract? Are permits being pulled? How big is your budget compared to what the KD/contractor usually have?

    Just some questions that come to mind as I read your post. Something doesn't sound right. I would communicate a definite deadline in writing to the KD, or you'll need to cancel the project and demand all monies be returned immediately. Then you can decide with the upcoming family event, if you want to get someone new to start and complete your project. However, some of my initial ??s comes to mind.

    Regardless, the KD is holding you hostage. Try to level the playing field.

  • kompy
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I'm a KD and this is not the norm. Is your KD a high end designer or does she do a lot of volume? My store has 3 designers and we have one install crew for major jobs and another guy for basic installs. And we've never had to put off a client for more than a few weeks....and even that is rare! We do sell to people who hire their own installers and are DIYers as well....so that helps us keep a tight schedule for those who do want our install and remodel services.

    What brand cabinets did you purchase? DId you buy them from her or a cabinet supplier she uses? Have you seen the actual factory acknowledgement? Or do you know for a fact that they're sitting in a warehouse ready to go? I would want to make sure they're ordered. If she says they're in the warehouse, ask to see one.

    It could be that she's in high demand....then why not be up front with you about it. Why would she sell to you to be completed by summer's end....when she probably knew back in the spring she could not meet this.

    This worries me for you. Keep us posted.
    KOMPY

  • Mistman
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I tend to agree w/your assessment that you won't have a completed kitchen prior to the holidays.

    We have been in our place for almost 18 months, the builder came back after 12 to do all the touch-ups on the Sheetrock and paint but we have a whole list of things to be finished that he put on the inspection sheet that we signed off on. Since June we've been playing the same game. They schedule a time to come out (after weeks of no communication) and days before they're supposed to start we get an e-mail pushing it out to some other date. The last time they told us they'd be out on the 1st of Sept, I told my DW that there was no way they were coming on a holiday. They waited until the Fri. before to reply back that they "forgot about the holiday" and put it off until the 8th, I highly doubt they will show up then either. They 'overlooked' putting lights outside the garage doors, hooking up the generator, moving dirt, adjusting doors, etc.... I'm just about ready to start doing the stuff myself and sending them a bill that they won't acknowledge. I think they're playing the attrition game, at some point we'll just move on, finish it up ourselves and blow 'em a raspberry, not really anything else we can do.

  • suzanne_sl
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    It's so hard to know if it's worth waiting for this crew or jumping ship. How about if you arrange to speak with the 2 or 3 jobs that have been holding up yours? You could tell your KD that you need to check the references of her crew because you are so concerned about the tardy timeline that you are seriously considering cancelling your contract. You could ask the current job homeowners if the workers have been arriving in a timely fashion to complete their jobs and if the cabinetry, etc. was available when install time came. In other words, what is taking so long? Another possibility is that the crew is being pulled away from these current jobs to do other jobs/repairs. Maybe whoever sets the schedule just way overbooks so nothing gets done in a timely fashion, or maybe even done well. You have a right to know about the specifics of the delay in order to decide what to do next. And yes, if you are under the impression that your new cabinets should have arrived, do insist on seeing them.

  • amck2
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    As DH was making his 3hr. commute to work this a.m. he called to tell me he'd just received the message stating the latest delay. We were seeing red but tried to process the news and determine what to do. Since he was going to be in the general area of KD's office he rearranged his schedule so they could meet face to face. I told him I wanted to pull the plug on this. My trust in her word was eroded. I wanted our money returned and to put this behind us.

    I am disappointed with the way I went into this. It's a business transaction, but I approached it like an agreement between friends. My mistake - and I'm writing about it so others embarking on a remodel will take heed.

    KD came highly recommended by 2 totally separate sources whose opinions I respect. Upon first meeting her I felt a good connection. Though I made it clear over & again in conversations & via email how important it was for us to get this done over summer I didn't press to get dates in writing until months had passed. Don't do that!

    Many in DH's family are self-employed & we know how hard it is to please the public. We go the extra mile to be super accommodating and easy to work for. I don't want that to change, but I do think it made it very easy to put us at the bottom of the work pile. We were not the squeaky wheels. In fact, I kept making excuses when DH suggested we request updates - "She knows our schedule, I'm sure we'll hear soon....." Lesson learned.

    Well, DH went in and said we couldn't abide by the further delayed schedule & requested a refund. This was not a bluff. I was done. But KD prevailed on him to talk w/ her contractor (working nearby) and gave him a new schedule that shows all the appts. from the templating, floor finishing & install. According to that schedule the job should be completed by mid-October. They signed a written agreement regarding completion and DH called to ask if I was on board.

    I feel disappointed about how this is turning out. It's another month out of our home with all the extra expenses and inconveniences. My enthusiasm for the kitchen is gone. But it seems foolhardy to have worked so long on choices, purchased the custom stools, lights, etc., endured all the upheaval and not hang in for another month.

    I've seen evidence that KD & her team have done beautiful work. Her contractor is a good guy. They took on a job that was beyond their scope in a 100 yr. old home that opened up a can of worms. I get that. But I still think we were owed the courtesy of updates. Had I known the project would not be underway till Fall, I would have moved in a new range and delayed till next Spring and planned accordingly.

    Ours is not as large in scope as some of her projects, but it's a $50,000+ job (which doesn't include appliances, floors, painting, pendant lighting, hardware & counter stools). Cabinets are inset Plain & Fancy.

    Thanks for listening & I'll keep you updated.

  • Mags438
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    What's the penalty in the agreement if they do not meet the deadline? I hope there is a penalty or something in the agreement that addressed not meeting deadline as contracted.

  • annkh_nd
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    amck, I sympathize with your frustration! I would be livid.

    I have a question, though - why can't you live in the house? We were without a kitchen during our remodel for 2-1/2 months, and while it was an inconvenience, it wasn't impossible. We cooked on the grill, MW, rice cooker, crock pot, electric griddle, waffle iron. We washed dishes in the bathroom. The fridge was in the living room.

    That much of a commute would get old fast.

    Good luck with your remaining schedule, and I truly hope that all the aggravation will be worth it in the end!

  • plumberry
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    this is a major red flag --you should not work with this kd or anyone she suggests --somehow you need to get your money back. sorry this is happening to you. it makes me sick to hear about it.

  • lascatx
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I would have some concerns, but hope it works out for you. Hope you have an incentive (penalty for being late) with her.

    I also question why you moved out. It's not fun, but most of us don't have anywhere else to go and live with the inconvenience. It's a lot less inconvenient than living a couple of hours away and trying to keep tabs on things, working, etc.

  • amck2
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    annkh, it would be really hard living in our home during this remodel. Our main floor is an open plan surrounding a center staircase. There are no walls or doors to close off any of the dust & debris - so not amenable to keeping any of our furnishings in the space. Also, the entire hardwood floor is being refinished. There is no good start/stop line & after 14 yrs. the entire floor needed refinishing even if we weren't remodeling the kitchen. With the furniture out, we're re painting all the walls & trim in the adjoining LR/kitchen area. Note: All of the flooring & painting were things we contracted separately (as advised by KD) & in no way impacted the start of their work. In fact, we're actually doing things in backward fashion to make as good use as we can with the time we have to be out of the house, as we moved out based on the dates we were given for start of work back in July.

    Our entire 2nd floor is emptied out as if we were moving. No beds, dressers - nothing. We had planned (long before kitchen reno ever entered our minds) to pull up the off-white WW carpet that the PO installed & replace w/ hardwood. Since we had hired the floorers for the main floor project it was cost effective to have them do the whole house at this time. So all our furnishings are packed into a moving pod.

    Still, DH & I could camp out on air mattresses if it was just we two. But we have 2 rambunctious labradoodles and their dog room in the basement is being used for the boxes of everything from our kitchen cabs. And the electrician and plumber will need to be working in there to access pipes & wiring. So there's nowhere our dogs can be without being underfoot or getting into things.

    It's cost prohibitive to have them boarded for a month and I can't imagine sending them away for that long even if it was free. Those pups have been my best buds through all this mess :-)

  • romy718
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hopefully, with the inconvenience they've caused you & the fact that they now know you were ready to walk away, they will take special care to make sure everything goes perfectly during your reno.
    At least you know the KD & the contractor both have good reputations & do good work. It would be awfully hard to move forward without that knowledge. Moving all your stuff back in & starting over next year would be so difficult. Best of luck & keep us posted.

  • annkh_nd
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Ah, that makes sense now, especially with the dogs. Still, I would be very tempted to try to get back in the house once the floors are finished. When will that happen?

    My dog made friends with all our contractors, but someone was usually around when there were people in the house, to keep him out of the way. We're fortunate that most folks in our area seem to be dog people, and there were really only a few days that people workers were here. My dog would not be at all happy in his kennel if there were people in the house, and the workers would be equally unhappy listening to a whining or barking dog all day.

  • jellytoast
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Here in California, delaying a job more than 20 days of the date specified is a violation of contractor licensing laws, and that statement is required to be written into the contracts. I'm not sure where you are located, but your contractor licensing board might be able to help you.

    Agree with Mags that something should be done to compensate for your inconvenience at least.

    "According to that schedule the job should be completed by mid-October. They signed a written agreement regarding completion and DH called to ask if I was on board."

    Did you agree to the new terms? Is there a penalty written in for non-completion by the due date, or failure to begin as agreed?

  • greenhaven
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I can offerypu no advice whatsoever, but I am terribly sorry you have to go through this and am quite indignant on your behalf regarding the professionalism of your KD.

    The worst part is the loss of enthusiasm for the project. I only hope you will love it enough when it is all over to begin forgetting the agony of getting there.

  • Jillius
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Holy cow. Our cabinet guy delayed our cabinet install by three weeks past the month he said he needed to be ready (and never had any in-progress cabinets ready in his shop to show us and get our approval, even though he said he would and he made appointments with us several times to see them). And it's not like he missed the deadline and reschedule for three weeks later. He kept setting meetings and install dates over and over and kept canceling them or pushing them back.

    My husband can attest that I was LIVID. Both my parents are lawyers, so they and a billion of our family friends are also lawyers. I was ranting and ranting (to my husband) about how if I didn't see progress RIGHT NOW, that guy was going to give our money back IMMEDIATELY, or I and my "lawyer army" were going to take his little bald head off. (I don't even remember saying "lawyer army," but my husband has never let me live it down.)

    And this wasn't even close to the delays you've dealt with. I can only imagine how angry you are. I'd give you a hug if I could.

    A small shred of hope though -- I don't know if our cabinet guy could tell there was blood in the water or what (my husband and I had independently told the guy bluntly that we were getting anxious), but when I truly started planning the guy's demise in my head, our cabinets were installed within four days.

    I suspect that your KD will shape up now that she's got a clear idea of how little patience you have left.

  • akl_vdb
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I am so sorry you are going through this. Especially when you anticipate a start date, get excited that this will get done, you'll see progress, you can move back into your house etc. Then the delays, and the delays, and more delays!

    I hope when you get the work done it exceeds what you thought possible, you deserve it after all this!

  • PRO
    Joseph Corlett, LLC
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "Here in California, delaying a job more than 20 days of the date specified is a violation of contractor licensing laws, and that statement is required to be written into the contracts. I'm not sure where you are located, but your contractor licensing board might be able to help you."

    Florida has a similar law. I took a 50% down payment from a customer for a window/door job. He ran into delays that were unrelated to me. I had his deposit for months, offered it back, and he refused. Although it may have been a technical violation of the law, the windows/doors are going in next week.

    This is probably why my 90-year-old mentor with 70 years in the business refused to ever sign a contract with a penalty clause. It's complicated sometimes.

    This post was edited by Trebruchet on Sat, Sep 6, 14 at 11:36

  • Buehl
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Amck - ( : ) - sending a virtual *hug* to you to help you get through this! I remember all the issues we had and how much it helped to know that GWers were here for me to vent/rant to and who could not only commiserate with me, but offer possible solutions to the problems!

  • a2gemini
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    What a bummer - hang in there - I am also sending you an internet hug to get you through.

  • michellemarie
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I wonder if she is paying her contractors? Maybe they aren't showing up because they haven't been paid for previous work.

  • nhbaskets
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    amck--I am so distressed to read about the delays you have encountered with the start of your kitchen. For those reading, I am one of those who provided recommendations for this KD. We used her and her subs for our kitchen remodel 5 years ago as well as for our new build kitchen we moved into in May. Our experiences with her and all of her subs has been nothing but stellar.

    I'm not making excuses for her, but IMO she is an extremely talented KD who is in demand. Her installer I trust implicitly. His work is impeccable. He does not rush things, but rather does it right. In our new home the builder was having a fit because he was taking longer to install our cabinets than the one day his cabinetmaker takes. I know my cabinets are installed plumb and secure, not just thrown in.

    The only words I can offer that I hope will be of comfort is once your kitchen is installed, you will be thrilled beyond your wildest dreams. Doesn't help with all the other issues you are having to deal with, but I hope you find in the end that it was all worth it.

    Good luck and please keep us informed as things progress.

  • PRO
    Joseph Corlett, LLC
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Sounds like these people will be worth waiting for. Were I them, I'd raise my rates.

  • tomatofreak
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    If - IF - I had $50K to spend on a remodel project of any sort and that happened to me, someone's head would be on a platter. There is no excuse for this total lack of responsibility.

  • rebunky
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Oh man just read all this and I feel so bad for you. Did they even offer you a discount or something in compensation? That just gets my blood boiling.

    This may be too late, but I would explain in detail the extreme hardship their delay has caused you. 3 hour commute to work a day! That's beyond extreme for 1 month let alone 2-3 months? That could effect his work performance and his health. He could be so exhausted he falls asleep at the wheel. Plus everything else you mentioned with you having to travel to care for family, why you cannot live in the home, etc... I would get into it ALL.

    After a good 5 minutes of that, finally say something like, "we deserve to be compensated don't you agree?" Just stare at her, probably with real tears at that point, and wait to see what she says.

    You have the right to your deposit back since they violated the agreement. If she has ordered the cabinets already, I would think she is up a creek without a paddle. Not sure how that works actually. But I think you have the right to walk away with your deposit.

    10% off seems like a fair number. If you get any disrespect or even a slight smirk on her face like your out of your mind, then sweetly ask for your $. Tell her this will be reported to the licensing board.

    If she agrees, get the final payment with discount applied in a written contract with a completion date. I sure hope it works out. Let us know ok?

  • PRO
    Joseph Corlett, LLC
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    The last thing on earth this, or any, job needs is to have all the profits sucked out of it.

    The person you don't want on your job? The one that's not making any money. He has to make money, and that only leaves cutting corners as the way to do it.

    amck needs to make a decision. Take the time delay beating, forgive and forget and move forward or scrap the whole deal and start over.

    This post was edited by Trebruchet on Sun, Sep 7, 14 at 10:56

  • susanlynn2012
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I am so sorry for all your delays and the stress it is causing you. If this kitchen designer did not sound so wonderful, I would request a refund of your deposit or a discount. But since she does sound so wonderful, I would communicate the stress this has caused you and that you need to know an exact date of when she can start and if there is anything she can do for you to make this right. You do not want her to do the job without a profit or she will not do the best job but you do want her to acknowledge the inconvenience and cost of extra gas for your long commute and less time with your family and the stress with some kind of discount or something thrown in as an extra.

  • amck2
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    The reason I posted is best described in buehl's post on 9/6. I was vibrating with anxiety when DH was heading to meet w KD Friday morning. Writing about it helped calm some of the nervous energy, and I knew people here would understand and possibly help me see options more clearly than I could in that state.

    My subject line was well-considered. I was very disheartened. Not livid, not raving mad, not vengeful or ready to take someone's head off. Call me crazy - & I know some friends/neighbors/colleagues/family members who watched us carefully plan and prepare for this project do - but it still pains me to think of KD as any less than the person nhbaskets describes in her post.

    I have come to her defense any time anyone has made comments about our delay and lack of any communication (unless initiated by us) since June when we seemed to have completely fallen off her radar. Until my post here, I have not uttered a word outside our home to anyone that would call her professionalism into question.

    That is why I am disheartened. DH's work requires travel and he pushed trips and meetings back till after Labor Day for this. We have other concerns and constraints which I won't go into, but which we made KD aware of at the outset that makes it difficult to be away from our home. She gave us every assurance this could easily have been done by now.

    In fact, we had consulted with another contractor to do our job before we met her. He was available to get going in May & happy to work with her. She prevailed on us to reconsider and go with her team because this was a textbook job for them - they worked easily together, were in constant communication and our job would likely be done to their exacting standards (as nhbaskets described) and completed sooner. We trusted that to be true & went with her.

    I don't know what happened between then & now. I do know that we hung back and waited till we couldn't wait any longer for things to begin. Remember - we had calls out to flooring people and a painter who were leaving space in their schedules to swoop in and do their part. We were fielding calls from them as well as the appliance store asking about delivery & installation dates.

    We were bummed when we got the 9/2 date the beginning of August but chose to do as Treb said - put disappointment behind and move forward. The floor people & painter mobilized and worked nights & even over Labor Day weekend to keep to the schedule. We felt horrible telling them that their effort & scrambling had been unnecessary.

    That's where the trust issue set in with me. Kompy noted that a seasoned KD (ours has been running her business for 20+ yrs) would have a feel for when a job could begin. I had absolute trust in her when she gave us a calendar showing a 9/2 start date, a 9/11 cabinet delivery date, etc. I would be naive not to suspect that this was given to us at a meeting we requested to mainly appease us and make us go away for a couple weeks.

    I'm angry with myself for not having had more backbone. If I'm honest I have to say I had real concerns at the end of July when we'd heard nothing for 6 weeks. I wondered if the overload of work caused a rift in her team. Had she and her contractor parted ways? Were my 3 slabs of granite still being held? Were my cabinets, window, sink & faucet ever ordered? Was there some personal or financial issue pending that would leave us with nothing?

    So, this isn't about boo hoo my kitchen won't be done for another month. It's having lived with a sense of unease for months. And feeling bad that I had doubts about someone who had struck me as one of the nicest and most capable people I'd ever met.

    DH did not go into the meeting fired up. We're just not that way. He simply said we couldn't go on with this. And her reaction was that she understood, but could we give it a go with full commitment beginning 9/16. So, we are. I still believe in her abilities and her team's desire to make this right.

    This post was edited by amck on Sun, Sep 7, 14 at 13:29

  • raee_gw zone 5b-6a Ohio
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I understand your point of view, and your decision, but I surely would be making an effort to get the answers to the questions you have in your last post -- is your granite still held for you, are the cabinets ready, have all items been ordered/delivered/kept safe, are there financial issues? With 10 days to go to your promised start date, she should easily have the answers, backed up with receipts/invoices etc.

  • tomatofreak
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "And feeling bad that I had doubts about someone who had struck me as one of the nicest and most capable people I'd ever met."

    Yeah, I've gone with some of those "nice" people who assured me of their capability. They're not always what they seem to be and suffering through their broken promises and poor performance is just not worth it.

    You're right about one thing: You should have had more backbone.

  • amck2
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    tomato freak, I acknowledge and make no excuses for my actions (inaction) in this. I've learned from it and maybe my experience will serve as a cautionary tale for someone else.

    I will be smarter but I don't think it serves me to be bitter.

  • weissman
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    What will you do if she misses the 16th? Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice...

  • MizLizzie
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    amck, so very, very sorry you are going through this. I can hear the overwhelming sadness in your voice, and I can see just how you got into this awful situation. I, too, try hard never to be That Client. I take a lot of time choosing the people I do business with -- read reviews, check references, view their work, etc. -- and then I try to get out of the way and let them do their thing. And I would have probably let the process play out just as you did, trusting they would do as they promised.

    But your KD did not value your time, nor did she keep her word. And she had to have seen this freight train coming, yet she let that train roll on over you, without a word of warning. You will never trust or respect her again. And yet, you now have to leave to her this entire project that means so much to you -- and costs so much. You have to do that thing I hate most. You have to work with someone you already know is either (1) incompetent, or (2) a liar -- and the hard part hasn't even started. I hope she is at least a little bit ashamed, but I doubt it.

    I hate to be a less trusting person -- to be That Client, the big ole pushy b**ch -- but I can see I need take a lesson from your story. I hope it will all work out for you in the end. Please keep us posted.

  • Bunny
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    amck, I'm so sorry you've had to go through this. I would have ended being institutionalized if I were in your shoes, probably on death row.

    I think you've had a lot of opinions and plenty of sympathy all around. I tend to agree with MizLizzie. This KD might be the bee's knees, but she sure as hell didn't give you much thought as you waited and waited. Not very nice. Now you are being encouraged to suck it up and stay with her, because, golly, she's just THAT good.

    I'm sorry, it makes me angry just thinking about it. I hope it works out for you.

  • tomatofreak
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    My guess is that she will start on the 16th - and then run into one problem or another, requiring yet more excuses and further delaying completion.

    raee is right. Before you let her in the door, ask for receipts for - and locations of - your cabinets, your granite and every other thing that was supposed to be there and installed weeks and weeks ago. (If the stuff is not in your house, where is it?) I would not trust that these large, bulky items are being stored and ready to install at this point. Storage isn't free and I doubt that she has them in storage.

    Lessons? Oh, yes; I've learned many. Sadly, the experiences don't protect you from the next flake down the road. The best lesson to learn is how to deal with them when they don't perform. For me that means 'nice' communication first. If that doesn't work, I lower the boom. I'm angry and I'm not going to be placated by a bunch of excuses. I'm going to get my money back - and I'm going to publicize just how sorry my experience was with the offender. Then I get over it, no bitterness involved, just vindication.

  • rebunky
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I think it is so kind and forgiving of you to believe in this KD and her contractor team to make this right. I totally understand not wanting to start all over.

    So the real question is: What would prove to you that they want to make this right? To make you trust them now? Which one of these 2 scenarios seems to make this right?

    1) They get zero conseqenses. They make the same exact profit for a job they put off with no explanation for two months. Most likely reason is so they could squeeze an extra profitable job before you just because the nice couple isn't complaining loud enough. You have to suffer all the consequences and they have none? OR....

    2) They acknowledge you and take responsibility. They prove they are sorry by offering you some sort of compensation for your pain and suffering AND complete your job down to the last detail with integrity of workmanship. Not do crappy work, cutting corners, just so they can make the exact same profit.

    You definitely don't want someone like that working on your home without you there. Unfortunately it is true that some unsqrupulous business people will allow the desire for more money make them do dishonest things.

    I've been married to a GC for 22 yrs and work with him on many projects. He makes a decent living with an honest profit for a job well done. I am sure this company bid your job to make plenty profit, and if they indeed value their stellar reputation they will make the customer happy.

    Also why don't you ask to talk directly with the homeowners whose home the contractor is presently working at. Ask them how long they had to wait. Ask when they put down their deposit. Etc...

    Unless they make this right with you in a BIG way, I would run and hire the original contractor you mentioned.

  • romy718
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Amck started this post to vent & get support from GWers. She has made a decision to continue with the KD & contractor. I don't think all these negative & doomsday scenarios are making her feel better. We can all be angry for her but let's not make her feel worse.
    Amck, I know from your previous posts that you & DH are deliberate, organized planners. You've gotten so many decisions made that most of us are trying to figure out mid-reno. I don't know you, but I believe you would recognize if this KD was someone you couldn't trust or work with.
    I hope (and truly think) that once your reno gets going & you're working with your crew, your excitement will return.

  • rebunky
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Im am so sorry anck. I just re-read your last post again and towards the end you do say regarding going with them, "So, we are."

    Somehow I totally missed that sentence. I would have not wrote my last post if I had realized that. Thanks for pointing that out romy718. Lesson for me today - read more carefully. And possibly mind my own beeswax.

    Best wishes to anck and I sure look forward to seeing your gorgeous kitchen reveal in the future. :)

  • bbtrix
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Amck, I hope you know that you do have the support of your GW friends and continue to vent here. I too have followed your journey with interest and know you've made the best decisions you could have based on what you knew and your instincts. Things have happened out of your control and that is very frustrating.

    I feel so bad for the hardships your family is enduring and hope that the contractor and KD come through. Hindsight is indeed 20/20, so there is no need to 2nd guess anything now. I agree with romy that you will have your TKO spirit back once you start.

    Keep us posted and please vent as needed!

  • PRO
    Joseph Corlett, LLC
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "Amck started this post to vent & get support from GWers. She has made a decision to continue with the KD & contractor. I don't think all these negative & doomsday scenarios are making her feel better. We can all be angry for her but let's not make her feel worse."

    romy718:

    I post honestly here; it's all I can do. I can't control how what I say makes someone feel. I depend on my friends to tell me the truth whether or not it's what I want to hear.

    I have a friend who posted on Facebook about how her 15-year-old dog was having seizures. There were 20 oh-how-sad posts. I told her she needed to put that dog down now. You don't need a veterinary degree to know a feeble old dog needs peace, not seizures. My comment even got a "like" or two.

    All advice was given here in good faith; how it's taken is up to the recipient.

  • amck2
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Why did I turn to this forum when I couldn't think straight on Friday? Why come here for help and advice instead of simply relying on friends and family? Because the majority of people here have either undertaken kitchen remodels or are in the midst of one right now. They have firsthand knowledge and experience and can best relate to all the attendant issues.

    Also, having people who were familiar with the details of my project from its outset, yet are not personally connected to its outcome, provided me with great perspective. I can't express how grateful I am to everyone for helping me work through this.

    I intend for this to be my last post to this thread. With the decision to stay on with my KD and her crew I think it has run its course. I know my decision to stay with them will never set right with some, and I get that. To close the circle I will wrap up with giving you our reasons. Maybe some part of this can help someone else along the way.

    The big problem has been poor communication - and that's something that can be resolved. This isn't a case where we discovered shoddy work, crew not showing up or cutting corners on materials. This is a case where well-meaning and hardworking people in a small operation over extended themselves. It became a Murphy's Law situation when they went into the big job on the historic home. The timing on all their jobs was compromised by that. That is the point - in June - when we should have been called to discuss how it impacted our job.

    I took KD's inattentive and evasive behavior as a sign that we were not important customers. After hearing how she was when DH went to her office on Friday I believe it was quite the opposite. I think she felt so bad about letting down "good people" that she found it hard to face the facts that it wasn't going to happen for us this summer and tell us that. That wasn't professional and some would, justifiably, find that reason to cut ties. But in this case, with the history of good work and goodwill behind this firm, we accept that mistakes made and believe they will not happen again.

    Lastly, my world view has shifted with age. I nursed my Mom for 2 years
    when she was stricken with Alzheimer's dementia until she passed last Fall. The unfairness we've suffered by this delay doesn't hold a candle to the unfairness that life sometimes brings to people through no fault of their own. In the big scheme, this really is a bump in the road.

    Having settled down and gained perspective over the weekend I feel comfortable with the decision we're making to stay the course with this project and cannot wait to share good results.

  • Mags438
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I hope the 16th is one of your happier days in this process. I do fear that even if a demo happened then, I hope they do not leave you hanging without a kitchen. I'm not impressed with their track record with you.

    If they don't come thru for you on the 16th, it's pretty clear it's time for you to walk away and start over with someone who respects your time and values your project like their livlihood depends on it. From what I'm reading, none of that exists now. What you see now, is what you will get the entire project. I'm not sure why YOU believe you and your project *must* have this KD & crew. What's the value you see in them that is impossible to be found elsewhere? I had lots of reviews and great things said about a cabinetmaker. So I 'went' with them. They may have been great to others but I found them rude, disrespectful of me and my time, didn't seem to value my project (paid retail) and I began to see and feel things from them that I viewed as less than honorable. I began to question myself with the above questions. I felt my business/$ was worth all those things I didn't get, so I gave up (wasted lots more time & money) and started over with someone else. I got over my emotions and how much time I had wasted. My other contractors didn't feel as great about it, but everyone got thru it. It was the best move I could have made for my project - my cabs came out great, it was a great relationship, and my project going fine. If I had 'stayed' I suspect my project would have been fret with lots of problems with ppl who cared less about how I felt. There is so much that will be stressful enough during this process! If I were you, since you've committed to the 16th, if they didn't come thru, move on - it's a big 'red flag' warning. The only thing I would be working on, is how your going to get your monies back. What does the 'agreement' say? Is this agreement a contract?

    Sometimes in a reno, there are false starts. I've had a few. It's not uncommon. You just start over, hopefully smarter and wiser. Good luck.

    This post was edited by Mags438 on Mon, Sep 8, 14 at 9:41

  • spanky_md
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I just want to say that I can totally see myself in your shoes, though i've never done any renovation of this scale in any of my houses---at least not all at once and not when it wasn't mostly DIY. I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt. The feeling that a bad situation will turn a corner any second persists longer in me than in most people, I think---for whatever reasons, good or bad.

    Best of luck to you. I hope it turns out well despite all these bumps and that you love your new kitchen.

  • bellsmom
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Mags,
    You make me smile. A nice, happy-for-you smile. It will all work out.
    I look forward to your NEXT post--about the progress that is being made and your pleasure in it.
    Meanwhile, as you said, you can put this post behind you. It has done its work. Things are moving forward.
    Sip a glass of wine and hug DH.