Couple more notes and a question.

- The most used doorway used is the one across from sliding door to the deck. That is also where are kitchen table is. I did not want to put fridge on that end as I thought it would feel too closed in?

- The wall where the range is now is a load bearing wall so I can not move it.

- I keep looking at all the post and most people are doing white kitchens. We are doing dark cherry, traditional kitchen. Are we making a mistake with style and color selection? We will live in the house at least 5 - 7 years possibly longer and do not want it my kitchen to be a problem when selling the house. House is traditional colonial style.

In my old kitchen, I found 12" cabinets to be a pain. In your case, can you get an easy-reach that incorporates the extra 12" by the window? Then the one on the right is a single cabinet. I know you'd lose your glass fronts, but do you have that many glasses?

If your drawing is to scale, you might want to have a bit more space around the window.

Is there a reason you aren't taking the cabinets to the ceiling? You'd gain a lot of storage - especially if you get extra shelves for the uppers.

Make sure you have enough filler to the right of the fridge so you can open the door. Maybe you could even incorporate a narrow pull-out pantry on that side - you have enough room around the range to steal some. You're kitchen isn't big enough to waste on filler if you can help it.

Even a CD fridge is deeper than 24". If you increase the depth of the cabinets on that wall - uppers and lowers - you'll gain much-needed counter and storage space.

annkh, thank you for your comments.
I don't know if I can get easy reach that big - I will check - but than I will loose the symmetrical layout by the window that my husband really likes. I don't really care about glass fronts - right now I do not have glass, I was just wondering if I should have glass doors there.

The drawing is to scale. I have cabinets all the way to the window because the window frame, window sill, corbels, valance and all the trim will be the same as cabinet trim - the idea is to make it part of the cabinets without wall space around the window. Is that not a good idea? I have about 1" on each side of the window "play room" built in in case something is out of whack and I can always shave off the window trim.
This is sort of the idea for the window but mine would have a valance with onlay and light in it.

The cabinets are 36" high plus chunky crown molding with some filler to make it go to the ceiling. Since it is traditional look I wanted the crown.

There is 3" filler by the fridge. I thought about putting a 6" pullout on the right side of the fridge but than my drawers by the stove would have been maybe to small for storage? Right now the inside of the drawer would be 27" wide. I want to keep my pots and pans in them. My husband thought that there would not be much I can store in narrow pullout by the fridge. I was thinking of asking my cabinet installer if there is a way to put the filler by the fridge on piano hinge or something so I can stick a step stool or something there. No idea if it is possible.

I am increasing the depth of the uppers to the depth of the microwave minus the door so it will be about 13 3/4 on uppers. The depth of my fridge (Kitchen Aide) is listed as 24 1/8 without the doors.

1) On the fridge wall, I'd put the fridge on the left and everything else you have on that wall to the right of it.

Two reasons:

A) That way someone looking for a snack can get to the fridge and stand in front of it pondering options without crossing or being directly in the middle of all the major work zones.

B) Unless you are buying a built-in fridge, a counter depth fridge will stick out more than you think it will. A lot of them don't count the door as part of the depth, and they all require 4-5 inches of space in the back between the fridge and the wall for air circulation. It's dumb, but most "counter depth" fridges require up to 30" of depth.

It looks as if you have only 27" of depth before you hit that doorway, so your fridge would be sticking out into it. Stuff like that looks like a mistake and gives a general feeling that your kitchen is overstuffed and crowed. Best to have things where they easily fit.

C. When the fridge is in use, it'll completely block that doorway. I've lived with that, and it's super annoying.

2. I think it will look very odd to have the fridge wall stuff end a foot past the sink wall stuff, especially since together those counter endings are defining the perimeter of the seating area. They should align, and being just barely out of line as you have them now will look like a mistake.

I'm sure it is simpler to retool the fridge wall to lose a foot, but those 30" banks of drawers on either side of the stove would be amazingly handy. I'd actually argue for instead installing a different sliding door (or French doors) that is a foot less wide and then extending the sink counter down a foot. I have done both framing and door installation, and the easiest (read: cheapest) door size change that you can make is to make it SMALLER. Larger would require you to tear out a lot to reframe the entire header, but SMALLER means you just add a couple of pieces of 2x4 to one side. Very simple.

3. I think you should reconsider your policy on a large sink. If not for yourself, but for resale. It won't hurt you to have a large sink, and it is very very very difficult to replace a sink that has been epoxied to the counter top, which in turn was epoxied to the sink cabinet. You basically have to tear it all out. This means finding matching granite and cabs to fill in what you've torn out (which is impossible), so then you have to replace the whole kitchen.

If a buyer does not share your feelings on small sinks, your kitchen is essentially a gut job to them. And I can tell you that if you wanted me to either live with a small sink or first pay for a remodeled kitchen and then tear it out and remodel it again, I would not buy your house. (The fact that it had such a large sink for a relatively small kitchen is one of the things that sold me on my current kitchen.)

Plus if you switch to a 36x36 corner cab, a 36" sink cabinet can be centered perfectly under the window. Then you have a 24" dishwasher to the right of that, and if you extend the sink wall counter down a foot, then you could finished the sink wall run with a 30" or a 33" bank of drawers (whatever brings it in alignment with the fridge wall -- it'd depend on fillers. I don't know if you'd need that 3" filler that is currently next to the fridge if you have drawers there instead). Which would be phenomenal.

4. I'd remove one cabinet on either side of the window above the sink. The window looks squished and cramped now -- let it breathe a bit. Again, you want bit of space around your windows and doors so it looks like your kitchen fits easily in its space. Overcrowding makes it look like the space is small and cramped, like it can't contain a normal kitchen without busting into stuff.

5. In answer to your question, plenty of people are still doing cherry cabinets. Are cherry cabinets common/popular in your area? Check house listings and see what is considered normal. If it's a common choice, then buyers won't think it's out of the ordinary when they come through your house. I'd just make sure your kitchen has enough natural light to make dark cabinets work.

Jilius, thank you. You sure gave me lots of food for thought.

1. I did have the fridge on the other side originally but thought it made entrance to the kitchen cramped in so I switched. I knew that the door and handle will stick past the opening. The fridge depth per specks says 30 1/8 with handles but if I add an inch of breathing room that will stick out 3 1/8 inches with handles. I even thought about moving the opening few inches so that would not be the case. I think I will definitely revisit flipping the fridge as your comments make a lot of sense.

2. I see your point but I don't know if that part bothers me much as table and chairs brake up the space. I have to think about it. I can not make the fridge wall different size as there is closet with main ducting behind. The sliding door can be made smaller but I would have some issues with matching up the shingles on the outside.

3. Larger sink would be nice but 36" sink base seems like such a huge cabinet that usually has a lot of wasted space. I would need to investigate different organizational gizmos to utilize the space better. My actual window opening (inside of the molding) is 36". On the plan it shows 42 because I added the 3" molding to the measurement.

4. I thought that if I use cabinet molding, corbels etc and cabs right to the molding it would look more custom and build in not squished. I wanted to add an interesting element and a focal point and I like corbels but don't want things to be squished. :( If I abandon the 3" decorative molding and corbels and valance around the window than I will have 1.5" on each side of the existing window molding if I keep 12" cabs on either side.

5. I've been to a lot of recent built homes in the area and they do have medium and dark cabs but seem like the kitchen remodels have light cabs.

Ooops, it was a double post. Deleted the content that is the same as above. :)

This post was edited by margo456 on Tue, Sep 16, 14 at 20:50

I agree with the PPs that you will be unhappy if the fridge obstructs the doorway. Can you shift the opening over a few inches? You will lose a few inches from the end cabinets but both aesthetically and functionally it will be well worth it. Where does that door way lead btw? How much traffic passes through it?

Fridge placement with a kitchen this size (mine is similar!) is tricky. There was a post last year from someone who was unhappy with her beautiful new kitchen because moving the fridge to the end closest to the eat-in area blocked the light and views to the range. Our fridge (also a CD KA model) is on the far end from our daily eating space (a banquette) but it works well for us because that is the closest end to our family room. I think you're right to consider how the fridge impacts the feel of the space but as the PPs suggest, map out in your head how the traffic patterns work.

I also agree that bigger is better for the sink. We went with a 30" single bowl in a 33" cabinet. The space underneath houses tons of cleaning supplies plus cutting boards and my over-sink drainer (a GW find!) I had a 25" sink previously and nothing large fit, plus every time there were two people using the kitchen the sink seemed a major collision point. Now, not at all.

Finally I'm another non-white kitchen person, I see a lot of beautiful ones here but it was my husband's only demand and over a long time time planning I actually came to strongly prefer stained wood. At the last minute (literally!) I opted for painted greige cabinets and I love the neutral for our space but I'd be equally happy with the right stain. Do what you love not what the trends demand!

Here is a link that might be useful: Previous post about fridge closing in a galley kitchen

I've updated the layout with markings where the doorways lead to. The LR doorway is really meant to be a DR but we switched LR and DR. Our current DR is behind the kitchen wall with the fridge. I know it is a little odd but the intended LR was so long and narrow that it works better for us 2-3 times a year that we use that room for large gatherings with nice long table.

We use FR and hall doorways the most. Through the FR is the entrance to the garage and the hall leads to the stairs to upstairs.

smalloldhouse - thank you. I was thinking originally about shifting the doorway to LR but I have a really nice faux finish in there that did not feel like redoing. I thought that if I do move the wall few inches than I can cover up the mess with nice chunky decorative molding but than I also have to do the molding on another doorway in the LR.

I guess I can kind of imagine how the fridge would look by hall doorway as the full depth fridge is now in the middle of that wall so if I squint my eye I can pretend it is at the end. I just don't like coming into the the room from narrow hallway (33" wide) into narrow kitchen opening. I think I could get used to it. I am strongly leaning now to moving the fridge. I will have to re-do the plans and see how it works out.

Now to the sink - I thought I also wanted preserve counter space but after I measured my existing drop in sink but putting in 30" sink I would really loose only about 5" of counter space.

Here's pics of existing kitchen (I did not clean it before taking pics, sorry)
View from FR

I put this sink in a 30" base. The spec says 33", but I got the sink before my cabinets were built, and my cabinet maker assured me it would fit.

The sink I replaced was a 25-yr-old 36" double. The large bowl is much bigger than one side of the old one, because it's bigger front to back. The small bowl is not much smaller than the old one. I love it.

I don't necessarily agree that having one "leg" of the kitchen longer than the other would look like a mistake. I can see that if it was a U kitchen, or a straight galley, but this kitchen isn't symmetrical in a lot of ways. Form over function tells me that the extra foot of storage/counter wins out.

However, there is a light switch and phone jack at the end of the fridge run. Moving the fridge to that end requires moving those. Perhaps 12" cabinetry at the end, facing the FR, would simplify things. You'd need an end panel if you put the fridge at the end anyway.

I did a similar thing in my kitchen, with floor to ceiling cabinets next to the fridge, facing the DR. In your case, instead of floor to ceiling, I'd do cabinets and counter. The uppers can either be shelves for cookbooks or doors. You already use that space as command center, from the look of it.

Oh, and a tip I got from my electrician - he put in a hot phone jack for me, so I can connect the answering machine/cordless phone (just like yours) directly to the jack, without an outlet. Genius! In your case, it would just need to be lowered a bit.

Here is a link that might be useful: Ann's sink

annkh - I was just looking at my phone jack and light switch when I got the email with your post. My basement is not finished so I was thinking that I can always just move the switch to the hallway wall and move the phone jack as well.

I was also just looking at wireless phone jack and wireless light switch online. I will need to do more research on both and see if re-wiring or wireless option will work.

I saw your pic before and I love it in your kitchen but If I did that (with the counter instead) it would take away from my drawer space by the stove (only 30" each side) and my working counter space. I think that also would always be a mess of papers and stuff as it is now.

I put up a piece of cardboard to mimic the refrigerator by hallway door :). I don't love it but I think I can get used to it.

View fro FR

View from hallway

I liked some of the ideas in the link "smalloldhouse" posted about similar dilema - put up pretty pictures, painting etc. on the side of the fridge panel.

Oh, and regarding the sink, originally I was planning putting a 30" sink cabinet and a bigger sink but my measurements just don;t work out with the window. I am considering just putting 36" sink cab like "Jillius" suggested and just figure out how to use that space underneath.

Decided that asymmetrical legs totally will not bother me especially if I move the fridge to the left side by the hall.

This post was edited by margo456 on Wed, Sep 17, 14 at 11:32

Do you use the doors to get to your deck a lot? I currently have a dining room table in front of doors to the deck and it's very annoying.

Foxwell - we use the sliding door a LOT. We have a deck almost the length of the house. When it's nice we grill outside and we eat outside. We go out that door to go to the garden or pick herbs from pots on the deck. It might feel a little more cramped once we extend a counter but since there is a garbage can and paper recycling there it might not make a difference for walking purposes.

I think the round table makes it more usable since it is easier to put chairs out of the way. I LOVE round kitchen tables.