We need a banquette bench for dining area of kitchen... The room is 12' x 16.5'. The bench is 8 1/2 feet with 4' built ins on either side.

I thought all along a straight bench with rectangular table but even a 6 1/2' table only left 12" of space on either side to "get in". Then you also couldn't extend table at all.

We discussed doing oval or round. The round works well but I'm worried it may go too far into our kitchen space?
Also there is 12' of glass doors from living room and I'm wondering how seeing the sides of the banquette will look. Obviously I can upholster or use decorative panel on the bench but just think it is closing off the open look?

Also, I have no idea what I'm doing so hope my drawings are correct somewhat. Each square is 1'. *Maybe I have the bench built out too far but with the built ins you'd need to have space to get in. Hmmm- I guess that was more with a straight bench as the curved seems to allow better access-- away from the built ins.

We will have 4' of built ins on either side so maybe if it could look like this?

Oval seems like unless the bench wrapped all the way around for seating at the heads of the table you'd only fit a couple of people on the bench and would need more chairs.

This one covers heads of table better.

Some other banquette ideas:

Original Idea which didn't work out very well...

The original thread is linked below although I think I covered most of it : )

My only concern with the Ballard one is that when it extends, the pedestal doesn't open so it's lopsided. However, if the leaf were for occasional use that might be fine.

Comes in these colors:

Here's another 54" round that extends

Is there seating on the banquetee (short side) of the island? If so, 2 chairs back to back in a ~6 ft space seems tight with round table, no?

Yes, there is seating on the short side of island... that is why I am thinking the round (the way I drew it) came out a little far. However, maybe if its like the picture I posted below it wouldn't have to stick out as far as I drew it?

I don't think the round table extends too far into the space. It looks like there's lots of room to maneuver. The round table with the optional oval extension seems to be the most versatile. I LOVE the rounded banquettes, especially the red and white striped one. We want to do a banquette in our kitchen but we have relatively low windows so it wouldn't be as comfortable sitting there since you can't really lean back. Any thoughts?

What's the downside to the oval? It looks like you'd have trouble squeezing 3 people in chairs around the half-round and still have room for the bench seaters to get out, where you probably could it on the oval. And even if the table were pushed in a few more inches, I think I'd still be worried about the walkway in between the island seating and teh banquette seating with the round.

You may need to mock up in your space, if possible.

marcolo- Even if the banquette is designed to work around a round table so that all eaters could reach?

This is harder than I thought it would be : (

The semicircular ones I show above don't seem that deep but maybe they are.

What are my options here? Maybe I need to stick to a straight one? Or maybe just slightly curved with an oval table.

If I had my druthers I'd pick a furniture maker and upholstery, if you wanted to round it. I think it would look odd to have a wooden back sticking out of the built-ins so far. And maybe not do a full semicircle.

Hopefully we'll come up with something this week!

Put two wall cabinets on either side of the banquette, then put two counter height cabinets in the front. Without some fancy planning you lose the storage of the wall cabinets below counter depth but you gain storage from counter depth up to the top of the cabinet. You can get very deep storage underneath the banquette seating. This configuration bypasses the 2' depth limitation you face on the wall that you're currently planning to use.

The downstream problem here is your island needs to be modified somewhat in order to accommodate an adequate isle.

Food for thought, at least.

To be honest, I really don't see how a rounded or an oval set up could work for you from a functionality perspective. If you have standard depth cabinets at either side, I think a straight banquette with a rectangular table is the best bet to maximize seating for 6.. which at the end of the day is what you want from a functionality perspective. A trestle table or a even a modern pedestal leg like the Saarinen table would make the enter/ exit process easier for the sitters. I can see that you really like the visual of the softness of the rounded upholstered seats.. All of your inspiraion pics are of upholstered seats.. But your later post says "it is supposed to be wood"..

I think you need to do the math like Marcolo did to actually see what will work.. If you want softer upholstered seats, you need to factor in the depth.. Please try mocking it up with a row of chairs for the banquette with cushions on the seat and back, a table an chairs across.. How this feels may narrow down your choices and clarify what you wish vs.. What you want/ need. My .02

Not only would it look odd, the banquette sticking out would hinder your access to the adjacent 2' cabinet and would be an impediment to a clear walkway to your glass doors.

A solution here is to build a 2'-4' bump-out on the wall and push your banquette into it and let it extend out so that it ends where your 2 cabinets end. That solves the problem of access, of adequate walkways, the banquette no longer sticks out into the room and you get a nice, big, roomy, semicircular banquette surrounded by windows.

A 48" x 93" bump-out gives you room for a 72" x 93" banquette.

lalitha-- I see what you're saying. Here's the history. All along a straight bench with a rectangular table was what I planned on. And the bench was to look like one of these..

I decided on the 2nd as being better for every day use with the kids, less clutter on the ground with legs, etc.

When we were measuring it out with a 6 1/2 foot table it only gave us 12 inches on either side to squeeze in. I suppose the built ins make it harder to do so.

The suggestion given to me by a decorator and the others in the room was to do on oval table so that you lose the corners. However I think then the bench only sits a couple of people who can get to their plate comfortably. That's unfortunate b/c I was thinking and 8 1/2 ' foot bench could at least sit 3 and maybe even 4 when absolutely necessary (the kids can go in there).

So, that's where I am. A circular table/bench was not the plan but I thought may be better seating. Now, however, I do see the issues with depth.

OH, another thing is the ends of the table with chairs using a straight bench. The chairs would end up in front of the built ins which I guess as long as they push in well is okay. However, something like what corgimum posted takes care of the ends and I'd only need 2 chairs.

*Could a set up like Corgimum posted above work with wood seating if the outside were decorative panels? Does it just jut too far into the space? I think it's similar size-wise to the first pic I posted in original post. Even less deep actually.

I think it would be fine for your daily meals, which are four. Maybe a little cramped at 6-7, but if that's the odd scenario maybe not as important? Do you have a formal dining room?

Do you really need that seat on the short side of the island? I think you could decorate/upholster the sides of the bench to be pretty so even if they stuck out a bit it would look ok. Without that seat, I think you'd be ok for space.

A bumpout would be ideal, anything is possible with enough $$$, but that's something only you and your contractor know.

What's going in the built ins and is there anything you could sacrifice there? It seems like you need another foot or 18 inches and you'd be ok with the longer rectangle.

Just remember that form follows function. If the banquette will not function well for your family, the fact that it looks super awesome and is symmetrically placed on the wall will not matter in the long run.

If you could do 18" I think you'd be fine. So a 72" rectangle would give you 15" and couldn't you get another 6" off your built ins somehow?

- Can you get more seating by orienting a table more the other way, so it projects into the room a bit more?

- The curve in your first picture might still work but notice that the back of the seat intersects the built-in--the knee area is what projects outward. The bench isn't a half-circle; it's pie shaped. And it looks fine. That may be the trick.

- There are a lot of shapes that get called "oval." You don't really want a true ellipse because that requires the greatest seating curve. Look at tables with rounded clipped corners, or two half circles separated by a square section (the shape you'd get if you put leaves in a round table).

- Dumb question because I don't remember: I don't have time to measure it out but why do you need a banquette there? Why can't you just center a table in the room?

If they were square-to-round, then you'd have even more flexibility to set the second table up in another room for Thanksgiving-type occasions (where extreme coziness is relatively (pun intended) acceptable.)

When used with leaves, it would still be stable.

Sandra

You know that a bumpout solves all of your problems and gives you a solution that you're happy with and a solution that is efficient. This is your only table, so it really should work well. The trade-off, of course, is money versus convenience.

If you know that any money spent would not be worth it, the pass it by and try to make due. If you have some doubt, then I'd at least check out what it costs to build a bumpout and then weight the now real cost against the benefits. If you're equally happy with another solution, then never mind.

It would have been great though : )

Fishies, look at the table Bellsmom posted. It's Victorian and the style isn't right for you, but it's a round table with leaves. So it isn't a true oval, but a circle with a rectangle in the middle of it. It gives you the eased corners for sliding into the bench without killing all the middle seating. Would that shape work for you?

Bellsmom -- that's one gorgeous table.

I haven't followed all of your threads. Is there a problem with this design? I think this crude sketch shows about a 52'' round table with two 18'' leaves. Of course you could use one leaf.

The banquette seems to me perfect for your space. Am I wrong?

Sandra

Below where you have the table is a 12' wall of glass doors from the living room so want to make sure it's not all sticking out too far, blocking bay window, etc.
I have asked the cabinet maker to see if he can come up with a few options.

Here is my space right now...

If I thought about it earlier I could have had that bay window seat be part of the banquette! (I think actually lavender mentioned that once..)
It's 7' wide and is 14" deep at widest...

I feel your pain with this dilemna as my project is all but banquette (and backsplash and other finishing touches, but I have a fully functioning kitchen! Yippee!). First my GC was going to build the bench, then I was going to get a carpenter, but now I am going back to my cabinet maker to have it built and my GC will install and trim it out. At least I've decided that much, but I'm still pondering the best design.

I've also decided to get an oval table. I was going to do a round table, but it seemed that the end seats of the bench would be too far from the table to eat comfortably. Also, when a 52" table is extended, it keeps the 52" width, which makes an enormous table when you put in a leaf and increase size to maybe 52x76. Similiar to you, the 52" width is just too large for my space when the table is extended (where as 40 x 76 is manageable).

Anyway, I am still in a quandry about my bench design, but I am confident that the oval table is perfect. I know this because I moved my dining room table to the banquette area and we've been using it in the space for over a month (while DH paints the DR with alot of necessary summer escapes delaying progress, but story for another day :).

I've talked to my GC about it about a dozen times and we always seem puzzled about the best way to build the bench. I don't have side cabinets and its no easier. I have the bump out in the eating area, but no matter, it still needs easy access and comfort to work as a main eating area.

Are your side cabinets abutting the bench going to be 24" deep? My contractor and I were figuring our bench would need to project 21" from the back wall in order to allow room for a a slight slope on the back and allow space for upholstery with a 16" deep seat. My situation is further complicated by the fact that I want the window sill to be a shelf which is actually the top of the banquette bench. There are photos and a diagram of this in Sara Susanka's book (probably Not So Big Remodeling, but I'm not sure because I've read them all). Anyway, what I am getting at is that you can build the bench out from the wall just a few inches, and disquise with a molding / trim, to allow easier access to the bench seating.

A2gemini has the straight bench with end cabinets. Have you looked at her set up?

marcolo- I really don't NEED a banquette there. I guess I just wanted one b/c I like the look and I also thought that space wise it would give more space between island and seating. When a table is centered it leaves that wall space as kind of wasted.

Don't over complicate or customize the shape of the banquette.
In your space I think that one straight banquette under the high windows
between the two built-in cabinets is the way to go.
Just make sure that you get a table that can expand to an "oval"
so that two people can sit on the banquette.
Perhaps at a larger event three kids could squeeze in.
If the banquette projects out a few inches beyond the cabinets
I do not think that will be a problem from a safety or aesthetic point of view.

Have you thought about what you'll do with the back of the banquette
that runs up to the bottom of the window?
Will you have a back to the banquette that is distinct from the wall?
Or, will the "back" of the banquette be the whole wall space up to the bottom of the window?
As you design your banquette be sure to think of the whole vertical space
from the banquette bench seat up to the window as one unit.
It could be the place to bring in your bead board or wainscoting, running it all the way up the wall to the window.
Or, if you'll do an upholstered back, you might consider going "oversized"
(if it doesn't feel too modern/Candice Olson for your space)
and upholstering all the way up to the bottom of your high windows.
But that perhaps cuts against my original advice not to customize the banquette too much!

(I've found with our banquette that if you have a deep seat
and throw cushions, a slanted back is not essential for comfort.)

A small chair seat is only about 16" wide, so I think if you had 18" most butts could sit down flat and scoot over. But I think naturally in that arrangement we would kind of go in sideways and need even less space. I think 18" is generous so I think you're only 6 inches off currently.

Remember, if someone who is less agile or larger ever needs to sit there, you could just scoot the table out a few more inches then move it back.

I think you'll be fine to seat 6-7 this way, it won't stick out into the room, and I think building and having a straight bench is going to be so much easier and more flexible in the long term for you.

During regular meals it sounds like you don't need more
than one or two people on the banquette.
So getting in and out really should not be a problem 90% of the time.

When you have larger dinner parties,
it sounds like you will be using the banquette mostly for younger people/kids.
As Cottonpenny advises, they should not have trouble getting in and out,
even with the rectangular table.
(A pedestal will make it even easier to deal with the banquette.)

You'll find that certain guests and family members
will always gravitate to the chairs, and others to the banquette.
Everyone will eventually figure out where they feel most comfortable,
depending on how much back support they need,
and their level of tolerance for a bit of scooting and squeezing.

Thanks for your thoughts on the back of it. I'm not quite there yet but will refer back ; )

cottonpenney- makes sense! We already took a couple off of the right side built in (which will be a bar area without sink) for the glass doors. It IS possible if those couple of inches will really make a difference. I'll take a look.

Definitely need a pedestal table which is fine. I'm going to go "play" in the space later and see what I can come up with. I DO think keeping it straight and not curved would be easiest and less obtrusive in the space.

One question.--- When we mocked up a 78" table we only had 12" on either side to get in. Then we thought oval would help slide passed. However with oval you lose being able to sit with your plate in front of you at those ends.
The bench could curve slightly, but then you still have a smaller space to get into just like the 12" with the rectangle-- right???

Maybe getting a circle with leaf would work and give us the eased corners like marcolo mentioned... and just leave it in that position.

The problem is that I thought like you that we could fit that many but with a 6 foot table (as the others don't seen allow sufficient access to bench you can really only fit 2 people or 3 kids perhaps. It's very frustrating.

Please let me know if I'm missing something. I wish I could mock up something here with real furniture but believe me we are trapped on one side of the house in our LR (which has been made temporarily smaller) and I can't really bring furniture into that space too easily if at all.

If the end of the bench faces out instead of facing the built-ins, you can slide in (think of a restaurant booth).

But, I guess that's really the same idea as the semi-circle curved bench isn't it?

Similar to this but LONGER in the middle.. Instead of round table an oval?

...so I think rectangle is still the best way to go. Or clipped corner rectangle if you can find such a thing.

I'd re-asses the banquette location. That bay window is crying out for a window seat there, and the narrow end of a table would be just perfect to rest against it. If you relocated the table there, it would allow MUCH greater freedom to be able to expand the table in length. Shallow cabinetry could go along the wall to the right as a hutch that would still allow you a place for dish storage or a toaster etc for breakfast serving.

So in your line of thinking, would the bench wrap around the corner to original wall as well for more seating, or just that one spot?

Right now that bay window is planned to be a little window seat but separate from the dining table.

In addition, I really could do the same thing by just putting a table centered in the room with no banquette seating. Your first one however with small table does leave a nice open space.

I'm going to keep thinking about your suggestions though and see what is feasible.

Yes, my built ins are 24" deep. We assumed the bench would have to protrude from there 4-8" for ease of use?

I just saw this thread, and I wanted to say that we faced similar questions with our corner banquette. The size was created by default - due to the room dimensions, size of appliances, etc... It ended up an odd size.

We looked at alot of table options. It really is more functional if the table shape matches the seating shape. A round or oval table looks ok with the straight bench seat - but you just can't comfortably seat as many people, because the curve of the table makes it awkward for a person to eat near the end - the table is too far from the seat.

Also, a table with legs creates problems getting in and out - so a pedestal style works better. It isn't that easy to find a square or rectangular table with a pedestal base (especially a smaller table). We went with the Canadel company (which others have mentioned), and are very happy with the results. We were able to select the size, shape, finish, etc... Our's is called a "boat shape" - which is kind of a square, with a slight curve to the sides. It softens the corners, and makes entry/exit a little easier, without sacrificing function.

I measured our entry/exit space, and we have 18" on one end and 23" on the other. The 18" is fine, but would be a tight squeeze to go smaller. I think there are some designers with website info. on banquette dimentsion guidelines.

Good Luck with your kitchen. It looks really nice.

Abbey

I just saw this thread, and I wanted to say that we faced similar questions with our corner banquette. The size was created by default - due to the room dimensions, size of appliances, etc... It ended up an odd size.

We looked at alot of table options. It really is more functional if the table shape matches the seating shape. A round or oval table looks ok with the straight bench seat - but you just can't comfortably seat as many people, because the curve of the table makes it awkward for a person to eat near the end - the table is too far from the seat.

Also, a table with legs creates problems getting in and out - so a pedestal style works better. It isn't that easy to find a square or rectangular table with a pedestal base (especially a smaller table). We went with the Canadel company (which others have mentioned), and are very happy with the results. We were able to select the size, shape, finish, etc... Our's is called a "boat shape" - which is kind of a square, with a slight curve to the sides. It softens the corners, and makes entry/exit a little easier, without sacrificing function.

I measured our entry/exit space, and we have 18" on one end and 23" on the other. The 18" is fine, but would be a tight squeeze to go smaller. I think there are some designers with website info. on banquette dimentsion guidelines.

Good Luck with your kitchen. It looks really nice.

Abbey

In all of the these crude sketches, some elements stay the same: the table is roughly 60'' in diameter and the curve of the banquette fits that table with about a 6'' overlap. The seat is 18'' deep, the back is 6'', and there are ledges in the corners. A 60'' table is larger than you were considering, but it fits the space so nicely I couldn't resist.

In all of the configurations, I think at least six people could sit here. In all of the configurations, the table protrudes about the same distance into the room.

If you change any measurement, everything would need to be changed.

With that in mind, consider these 3 sketches in which the banquette itself protrudes 12'', 18'', and 33'' past the neighboring cabinets.

Since it appears to me that the number of people who can sit at the table doesn't change appreciably, I think I would personally choose either the 12'' or the 18'' protrusion.

I agree with you that this is a surprisingly complex decision. A poster in one of the threads suggested you visit someone who designs banquettes for restaurants. That sounds like a great idea. Might be nice not to have to reinvent the wheel.

A straight banquette running between your two built-ins
will provide more flexibility in the long run
than a customized curved banquette shaped for a specific table.

With a straight banquette, down the road,
if someone wanted to float the table in the middle of the space
and use chairs rather than the banquette,
the banquette can just become a nice "window seat".

Draw a line. Start from very end corner of the banquette--knee side, not butt side--and draw a line from there to the corner of the built-in.

I might consider a custom piece of furniture rather than a built-in, too, if you were going with that shape. A straight banquette would be OK as a built-in.

Live in the space and see how it speaks to you, how it works. Just walk away from this for now.

A BANQUETTE or bench CAN ALWAYS BE ADDED LATER.

Sandra

I am eager to see it. It will be lovely, whatever you decide will fit your space and life style.

I love love banquette seats.. Nothing says "stay awhile, have a cup of coffee in my cozy kitchen" like a banquette. In your kitchen, I still feel that a built-in curved banquette feels a bit like "elephant in the middle of the room" .. I much prefer a straight banquette and a clean rectangular table .. Optionally with built in leaves and a couple of extra chairs/ stools to pull up that live elsewhere. If you will, Bellasmom's option 1 with18" jut out with Marcolo's pie mod seems least intrusive figuratively.. Can you possibly do a pop out window banquette with the curve etc..this would not technically add square footage?

It seems my options are as follows:

1) Do a curve with pie shape that protrudes 12" or 18" from the 24" built ins
2) Do a straight bench
3) Table in center of room which I know has it's pluses--- but I don't really want to. I could perhaps do it, and still do a bench for hanging out but the room is 12' wide and I don't know if anyone will want to sit and hang out on a bench that's too close to a table. Also for social gatherings if people are sitting around the table, it seems access to the bench would be non-existent. Is that correct?

I also love my kitchen. If I had a comfy window seat in it, that would be MY reading spot. I would design the banquette to be comfortable for lounging and reading a good book with feet tucked up beside me as well as comfortable for dining. This means a good reading light on one side or the other (or both) and probably, for me, back pillows I could reposition, since chair depth doesn't really mean good lounging depth. I learned the latter after we built a bay window seat in the bedroom. It is ''deep enough'' but barely, and it is hard to arrange back support when I want to read there. Another six inches would have made it luxurious, and made it easier to position pillows.

Personally, I like the coziness of a curved banquette, and I prefer extendable pedestal round dining tables to rectangles or even ovals. I prefer sitting, especially with largish groups, at a round table, with or without leaves. So much easier to see everyone.

I would want a table with wheels or good glides so I could move the table away from the banquette when I wanted to. So the table COULD be in the center of the room. And the banquette COULD be an inviting lounge/intimate conversation area.

Regarding your choices (straight or pie shape--I cannot for the life of me figure out what pie-shape means in this context. I drew mental angles from corner to corner, as Marcolo said, and end up with unusable shapes. Duh!!), I think straight or pie-shape is a choice of the chicken or the egg sort. If you want a rectangular table, you want a straight bench. Straight bench equals rectangular table.

If you want a round table you want a curved seat. Round table equals curved banquette.

All have pluses and minuses, as you know.

Chicken or egg decision:
1. you gotta choose round table or rectangle, OR
2. you gotta choose bench or curved banquette. Other decisions follow that.

Sandra

Bellsmom- Thanks for so many great thoughts. I am a little less concerned with rectangle/round (although I do like round for coziness) as much as what will work better with the room. I want a clean look and don't want to use round if the curved bench will end up looking like it just doesn't work as well there.
THe issue visually is coming from living room and looking into that area of whether an upholstered piece sticking out will just not look the way I want.

The doors slide instead of the swinging shown but it are four 34" glass panels. The two outside are stationery and the right one goes just about all the way to fireplace wall (about 6")

Here it is:

Or, if it weren't built exactly to plans, I'd have the architect and builder eat the cost of shorter windows so I could have better back cushions.

The issue is the built in by that window. All the electrical and a/v conduit has been run for my organizational spot/printer/blu ray, etc.

I need to leave that as is. So if bay becomes banquette I believe thats in the way or I'd just do the window which will only fit one person.

This sounds kinda harsh. I don't mean it so. But, finally knowing the traffic flow and the layout, I would say a banquette will NOT work by the straight window. It WILL be in the way visually from the LR and it doesn't make sense in the space. I absolutely agree with greendesigns in the 9:23 post above. Repurpose the bay window if you can. If it were mine and I could possibly afford to do so, redesigning would be a no brainer. If I couldn't afford to do so, either in time, money, or energy, I'd move on.

The bay as indicated will be useful as a bench or table for plants and decorative objects. It will be pretty. You can put a comfortable chair or two by it and set drinks in it. NO ONE will want to sit on a 13'' or 14'' deep seat. They would have to lean back against the window pane, a psychologically uncomfortable thing to do even if it felt OK. I would not even bother putting a cushion on it. It is NOT a window SEAT.

(I just measured the window seat in our bedroom. It is 24'' deep from the window frame to the front edge and about 72'' wide. My kitchen chairs are 15'' deep, and one sits in a kitchen chair with back and butt firmly against the back of the chair.)

I think this is what you have been fighting. You want the window seat, you would love the look of it, AND you know it doesn't quite work in the room if it is by the straight window.

Sandra

If I can't lower bay just leave as wood top for plants or whatever.

I thought even with thin cushion people could sit while having drink or with snack table. Not to sit back on - just to sit on for a bit.

I'm at a party and am on phone typing. Can't say as much.

If bay stays as is what am I doing for a table and where???

I don't see a straight banquette being an issue. We always had a table there...

So I have no solutions to offer, but just wanted to comment on all the wonderful advice the others have given you. I can't believe there are so many talented people on this board and that they are willing to share their expertise AND time to really help you figure out this puzzle. Truly AMAZING and even though I'm not ready to pull the trigger yet, you've all given me a lot of food for thought about stuff I've never even considered. So thank you all for sharing your wisdom!!

Fishes looks like you have a beautiful remodel underway and from the discussion it looks like in order to have a banquette that's large enough to have the seating you need now or future(those guppies won't be small forever)or to have one at all, then something gotta give. Don't know if that's a redesign of your built-ins, the window seat or something else, but if it's at all possible then you might want to consider it. Hate to see you lose out on a functional space and one that doesn't take advantage of the architecture.

From an aesthetic point of view, on paper Holly's 3rd and 4th mock up with the table's long end extending from the bay window looks the best to me. More room, looks like it is a better use of space and more diners will have a window view.

If I were you I'd have a conversation with the contractor, see what's possible and what it would cost. Plus I would definitely share this thread with him since in it you've expressed your thoughts and questions well and it's full of valuable info and insights for consideration.

Good luck!

Before extending the 7' we always had the table floating in the center of the dining room and it was right in the doorway from LR to DR (as many people have)... SO, the banquette was allowing us to scooch it over a bit for a little better walkway and also give a different look. It also keeps the table a bit further from the island.

Other than having to use a 6' rectangle probably is there really an issue with this set up? I don't see why all of a sudden it seems not doable? Now, by curving it and adding depth to the banquette way passed the 24" built ins it gets bulky but otherwise I don't see the issue.

Please share (gently) if I'm missing something else here.

However, I am thinking I may be able to make it deeper by adding onto the ledge 6-12" so we have a deeper bench. Right now it's about 13" at the center.
If that's possible I wonder if we'd need to bump out that sheet rock or if just the seat part could be extended with some corbels below for support.

and I think we were all trying to help you come up with solutions for those problems.

If you are fine with one person sitting on the bench, a round table will work fine in the location you originally selected.

Maybe you are just at the "remodel overload" stage and finding it hard to think straight with everything on your mind. Hopefully your cabinet maker will have an awesome idea for you and one day while sitting on your bench you will laugh about all of the angst this caused!

With the original idea I planned a rectangular table but hoped it would be
6 1/2' up to 8' and be able to seat 3-4 people but I was disappointed when realizing even with 6 1/2' table there didn't seem to be enough room to get "in".

The round table came in during the rounded bench discussion. Same with the issue of protruding passed the built ins too much.

Perhaps with a 6' table I can fit 3 people (at least 2) and for special occasions we may be able to work out an alternate plan.

I REALLY appreciate everyone's feedback. This type of discussion always gives one a much better shot at really coming up with something successful. I'm hoping that will happen! : )

Lastly, when thinking about having the bay seat come out into the room further (to make it deeper) I realize it won't work b/c it will then go in front of the built-in and I won't be able to open the drawers of built in..

Also, the 24" high bay window can be used to just sit on casually (not pull up your feet but two people can sit while chatting. When you say "fix" do you mean to have them lower the whole window?

PS- I'm not being argumentative- just want to make sure I see the full picture here : )

Please note that if people are sitting on a 24'' high bay window seat they may bang their heels on the wall. Especially if they are children or on the shorter side. Have you tested it?

You're right. I'm less than 5' and you would bang heels if you were sitting way back. But I think at 13" deep it's more like a lean/sit than a real sitting back if that makes sense. I'll sit on it again tomorrow!

With your plan and holly's I'd definitely have to lower the whole bay window to a seat height of 18" right?

If your kitchen was my kitchen I would probably re-think the whole area, including the bar. You could complete the kitchen part as is, but do a phase 2 which would be the banquette and built-in area. I know you don't want to do that but your kitchen would still be functional until you figure out what will work best. It's too expensive a project to settle for anything less.

But, if you are happy with the banquette bench in the middle of the wall as is, then go with it. I am biased because my banquette is going to be in an angled bay window and will take advantage of the view. It's my favorite part of my future kitchen (November).

In the inspiration pictures you posted most recently
note that the banquette seat is considerably higher than the chairs.
Only a very small child could actually sit that high and still fit their thighs under the table.
This picture is part of a general pattern I've noted of banquette pictures
in shelter magazines and websites that are clearly "staged"
and not banquettes that are useable.

Whatever you do, make sure the when the cushion is compressed on the banquette
the height off the floor is the same as the seat on the chairs
(about 18 inches off the floor).
My contractor made my banquette two inches taller than I specified.
Someday soon (sigh!) we will be re-doing it.

Also, which camp are you regarding straight bench as planned in between cabinetry or trying to rearrange it to the bay window area. I don't mind the 2nd choice but it leaves some confusing options for the long wall.. especially b/c of the long windows above.

I know you had preferred the straight bench but am curious now.

Yes, 18" (or possibly up to 19") for chairs and bench height.

I will admit that I haven't been following all the ins and outs
of the debate above on your banquette location.
But I do think there is a strong argument
for keeping it in the original planned location
with one long bench running underneath the high windows.
I like the simplicity and symmetry of that original plan.
And it gives that wall under the high windows a purpose in life.
The people on the bench won't be able to look directly out a window.
But it will feel cozy there, and they will have a full view
of all the drama of the kitchen.
They can look sideways for a view out the bay window.
The bay window might be a charming place to put an indoor herb garden or other plants.
Always nice to get some greenery into the kitchen/dining area.

The bench and rectangle table DOES work IF it doesn't too much intrude into access from LR. As you knew and said repeatedly. Here it looks OK. Not ideal, maybe, but acceptable. (I couldn't resist adding a rocking chair by the bay window.) Three could, I think, sit on the long side of the table if no one sits on the ends.

The table is 10 feet from the island, which is outer reach of acceptable. A table on glides or wheels COULD be moved closer to the island for daily use if desired, leaving the spacious bench for lounging. Again, as you said before.

Any table at the bay window is too crowded with the desk area. Again, as you said.

Hope this is of some use. With things as I now (finally? I hope) understand them, I would change my mind from previous posts and go with the bench/rectangle (or oval) table. Decisions to be made would be dimensions of the table, rounded or square rectangle or oval in shape, and whether or not an extendable table would work. It certainly would work when the table was pulled out into the room.

Final comment: I really like the idea of removable back cushions on the bench so that it can be wide enough for luxurious lounging when desired. And, of course, as a previous poster said, having the whole thing covered with zippered removable cushions instead of upholstered like a piece of furniture might be a great idea, especially with children and endless visiting kid-friends.

Sorry my last post was disturbing. I did not realize that desk/communications area was fixed although you HAD said so.
Sandra

And, darn it, it is a tossup as to whether I would prefer this or the rectangle. The advantage of the round is the easy extension with leaves into the space between the banquette and the island.

All I am doing is obscuring things. Glad I don't have to make this decision.

I promise I am outta here for a week!
Sandra

Anyway, YES, the plan you posted (first one or 3rd) is pretty much where we are going to end up I think. The organizational area and bar is about to be built any day now and of course if I called yelling, "STOP THE PRESSES!" I'm sure I could make changes, but honestly I don't see a great situation even if I did that... THe organizational area is GREATLY needed and was planned pretty well. If I put it on the wall where corgimum placed it I would lose 10-12" of cabinetry which isn't a great option and then that wall would be kind of empty except for the bar area at the end of the long high windows.

The side of the refrigerator cabinet is a broom closet that will open up which although not a deal breaker is another issue with the banquette bench in bay window. At this point lowering that window quite a change and GC agrees of course that 24" is way too high. (He's actually our project manager- not main GC). It was built to plan so it's my fault for not realizing to ask to have it lower. When you're new at all of this it's hard to foresee EVERYTHING although I try! : )
Also, it would have to be built out more into the room and that messes up organization area as we said.

If I had planned it to have the banquette in the bay window area I would have also reworked those long windows b/c they keep our options limited as far as organizational spot (desk without seat) and bar/glass area.

You bring up a good point about people sitting at the heads of the table and I think, then, getting a really deep table would help with that and with the people at bench being able to get in and out of there.

Also, the french doors are actually 2 doors that slide in front of 2 stationary door panels so that helps things.

Hmmm.. what else did I write last time that I am forgetting?

OH!- Please don't worry about your post yesterday being upsetting. I wasn't at all upset with you- I think just frustrated and confused at all of the options-- none of which seemed perfect obviously.

Do you think it helps to "clip" the corners of the bench?

I SO appreciate your posts so THANK YOU!! I'll miss you -- sounds like you're going away? Have a good trip if that's the case!

Yes, I think clipping or rounding the bench corners helps a lot visually in your case, especially since you have a cushion on top. I also think it helps visually to stop the backs at the 24'' depth of the adjoining cabinets as I discovered when I drew the last post above. So the only protrusion into visual space as seen from the LR is the ''soft'' cushion and its support--which, as you long ago said, could be a corbel or bracket (set some distance in from the corner to avoid stubbed toes.)

GLAD to know the doors slide instead of swing. Makes a HUGE difference in the way the space and access feels.

Right now the rectangular table looks better in my head when I see it from the LR. I guess because it protrudes significantly less (a foot or so) at the outermost point. (But that won't be so if you make it wider. Be sure to graph it and think about it.) The round table WORKS so much better when i imagine adding leaves (up to 36'' is possible) for company. I don't think you can equal that potential seating with a wider rectangle.

Wish I had software that allowed 3d views from different angles! My mind's eye doesn't always see what I think it sees.
Sandra

Then again as others said the straight bench may be more versatile.

http://sybariticspaces.blogspot.com/2012/03/blue-green-and-dining-room s.html

Yes- I have that photo and it seems that should work. Thanks! I'll keep you informed : )