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rocksandroses

Gel Stain Advice - Brand and Price

RocksAndRoses
9 years ago

I want to try gel stain to refinish some furniture. I have been admiring the photos on this forum and on pinterest.

I am trying to decide which brand to try - General Finishes Gel Stain or Wood Kote Jel'd Stain. General Finishes seems more popular, but Wood Kote has good reviews from professional finishers. Has anyone had experience with both?

I have checked the local stores and only found Minwax and similar brands. Been there, done that, thank goodness I practiced on curbside finds. Do any bargain hunters know good mail order sources with great prices and reasonable or free shipping? (A girl on a budget can dream). I missed Rockler's 25% off sale. Do they do that often?

Here are sites to the products for other newbies like myself who may be interested.
http://www.woodkote.com/
http://www.superfpaint.com/products/Wood-Kote-Jel%27d-Stain.html
https://generalfinishes.com/retail-products/oil-base-wood-stains-sealers/oilbase-gel-stains

My goal is to refinish several mid century pieces starting with a buffet cabinet. It is a heavy hardwood piece with some veneer on the doors. I am unsure of the wood, but the color is brown mahogany. (I plan to practice on a couple of old stools first).

Some people use a dye first then a stain to enhance the color and grain. I am willing to try that, but need guidance.

The piece also has a couple small places needing patching. I welcome tips on that as well.

I was tempted to post on the woodworking forum, but there seem to be more gel users and refinishing newbies here. I could also post there, but I don't want to be rude cross posting.

I don't have compressors, sprayers or many power tools. I plan to hand finish with a wipe on finish. (I realize that I have to prep the piece first).

I am new to this site (although I love to garden) and new to refinishing furniture. Please help.

Comments (11)

  • sombreuil_mongrel
    9 years ago

    I would avoid dye unless the entire piece has been scraped and sanded to really bare wood. However, clear finish that has dye added to tone it can be useful in touch-ups.
    I can do a lot of work on furniture with just two colors, a brown and a red. For me it's brown mahogany and red mahogany dyes, and brown mahogany and georgian cherry Gels. Blending the dyes gives a full range of colors between warm brown and blood red, and when layered over with garnet shellac and toned with either of the gels, as necessary, I can get to most any color for antique walnut or mahogany pieces, and even rosewood. For antiquing a patch or a whole piece, Java gel stain is needed; it simulates the crud that collects in corners when you use it as a glaze; use really sparingly, as it is really opaque (like old gunk in corners).
    Oak is another story.
    I buy my General Finishes stuff off the shelf at my closest Woodcraft store. They also have several kinds of wood dyes.
    Casey

  • nosoccermom
    9 years ago

    Beekeeperswife also recommended Old Masters gel stain. They have slightly different colors.

  • GreenDesigns
    9 years ago

    Gel stain is a hack for refinishing thrift store furniture. It's just a tinted varnish with a lot of solids in it. Basically paint. That obscures the grain and never penetrates the wood to bring out it's beauty.

    NEVER put it on anything actually valuable. You would ruin the value. A good MCM piece deserves the respect of keeping it original. Or, if it's too damaged for that, stripping the old finish completely and conventional refinishing. Without hack shortcuts.

  • nancyocean
    9 years ago

    Check with Woodcraft, you might have one in your area and they sell General finishes. They also sell things online, but it's great to save on shipping. The workers there are very helpful and can help you with any problems. Concerning patching items, I'm not sure if you mean a cosmetic patch or a structural patch, but get a wood patch that takes stain, not one that is meant to be painted.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Woodcraft

  • RocksAndRoses
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Thank you for the help.

    Sombreuil_mongrel, do you use powdered or premixed dyes? Do you use oil or water based dyes?

    I will look up the Old Masters products as well.

    I would like to go to the nearest Woodcraft store (or other quality store) I don't drive, so I would have to convince a friend to drive me or haul cans of stuff on the bus. I am tempted to do the latter, I am already probably known as the crazy woman who bought a pitchfork and rose plants on the bus. I push the boundaries of the "thee bag limit".

    I'll try to take pictures. I have a bit of veneer to reglue and a small spot near the base of the piece to make a cosmetic patch. It is at toe level, My little dog would be the only one who would see the patch, but I will be happier with it repaired.

    The pieces in question are quality pieces which I got on freecycle or craiglslist. I just moved to a place with room to work on finishing projects. I am excited to be able to finally refinish the beautiful furniture I have been collecting. The same pieces in mint condition are beyond my budget.

    I think it is a great idea to have a couple of colors of complementary dyes and stains. I am a fiberartist and am fussy about color. I don't expect my furniture to "match" but I want the tones to blend, not clash.

    My first project is brown mahogany and I am concerned about having the "right " amount of red. A similarly toned dresser is the next project. This piece needs a slightly larger cosmetic patch. If I am happy with my results on the brown mahogany pieces, another piece is a fruit wood mid century entertainment credenza from a dear friend. It will be a different stain color - the original color looks like gf candlelight. The original finish is nitrocellulose lacquer according the friend who helped me move it.

    I respect the opinion of using "quality" refinishing techniques on "quality" pieces. Another way of looking at it is that the gel stain is easier to strip/remove than dye. I don't want to start an argument. I am concerned that the gel finish may look too opaque. Therefore, I want to try gel stains on small non valued pieces like a dark wood stool before touching my special pieces. (I realize that the colors won't be exact matches on different pieces).

    I will eventually get around to dealing with my kitchen. The cabinets don't even match and the countertop is a disaster. That will be a winter project perfectly suited to gel stains. I am trolling craigslist for a tall pantry cabinet to add to the mix.

    Off to the library, I will check in with everyone later and read more of the fabulous threads on kitchen and other refinishing.

  • RocksAndRoses
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    The liquid is the concentrate in the little dropper bottles?

    Your furniture looks nice. Does the gel stain feel like wood or does it have the plastic, saran wrap feel. My mother used to destroy anything wood with multiple coats of high gloss minwax - even the handles on her kitchen knives. She had that can a long time, so it was probably extra thick and yellowed. That stuff makes my skin crawl.

    I especially like the shading around the moldings on the front door. Did you use a glaze?

    What colors/brands of gel stain are each piece?

  • RocksAndRoses
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Update:

    After a recommendation on another thread in this forum, I went to the local Benjamin Moore paint store, talked with the knowledgeable sales person and got small cans of the Old Masters gel stain in Spanish Oak (a true black, like melted licorice) and a wiping stain in rich Mahogany.

    I LOVE working with the wiping stain. I had agonized over their four mahogany colors, narrowing my choice down to red mahogany and rich mahogany. The salesman recommended Rich Mahogany. It is beautiful. the next step will be a wiping varnish.

    While both stains were easy to work with on bare scraps of wood, the gel stain is trickier to work on my first oak project - a toilet seat. The only all wood toilet seat I could find when out shopping was an oak one. The problem is my bathroom is grey and white. I just painted a small cabinet white with a black top. If I painted the toilet seat, I would stress over filling the grain and sanding it smooth, so I am staining it with the gel stain. It is taking much longer to dry than the wiping stain. I am on the second coat and will need at least three.

    FYI, the gel stain could be an interesting pore filler. The first coat made an interesting zebra like pattern on the oak.

  • RocksAndRoses
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Following up on my progress...

    I LOVE the Rich Mahogany Old Masters wiping stain. It is easy to apply, dries quickly (a day or less) and looks absolutely gorgeous. The only problem that I have encountered so far is that the stain is blotchy on some woods (two cheap practice pieces - one pine and one an unknown wood laminate). I think that is due to the woods absorption qualities not the stain.

    Based on my research, I can deal with the uneven coloration after the original stain by using a gel stain on top and/or adding dye to the protective overcoat (in these practice pieces - an old dresser top and a coffee table - Minwax wiping poly). Opinions from the experts?

    I am not a fan of the Old Masters Spanish Oak gel stain. I could get the same result for less bother, expense and drying time with a black enamel. If I want black for another project, I will experiment with iron dyeing the wood and enamel on top if that is a disaster. My finish piece looks nice, but not any nicer than enamel. This is the only gel stain that I have tried to date. I am undecided if I will try any more at this time.

    Thanks for your suggestions on my newbie refinishing efforts.

  • SaltLife631
    9 years ago

    There are numerous pre conditioners out that are made to help with blotch control. I would not bother with most of these products as I have tried them with several variables in place and the results were lackluster. However, one such product I would highly recommend is Charles Neil's pre conditioner. Charles has developed the formula himself using personal experience and first hand knowledge. The product can be ordered through his website and both Charles and his wife provide excellent customer support. Good luck with your project.

  • sombreuil_mongrel
    9 years ago

    Hi,
    For blotch control using gel stain over bare new wood, I recommend a first coat using "New Pine" gel stain (general brand) because it is so light in color it does not alter the wood, but does seal it. Follow up _immediately_ with your first coat of colored gel stain. If you have the gel varnish, you can use that for blotch control instead.
    Gel stains are essentially hand-applied toners, and if understood as such (if overused they will make the finish opaque) then there is no need for opprobrium, disparagement, or rancor.
    Casey