Hi Judy...

Sadly, my backsplash installation job was the reason for the info about the 1/2 tile. This is directly from the thread I started, but as you can see, Bill actually posted it in another thread.

Bill Vincent said:
"tsdiver-- I just answered another thread with reference to your problem, and I want to make sure you see it:

QUESTION This popped into my head while reading about tsdiver's backsplash. The bottom row of the bs is slim tiles rather than full size tiles. A few posters have indicated that this would be unacceptable.

My question is how could this have been prevented without choosing a differently sized tile or grout line? I'm interested b/c I'm going to attempt a DIY bs next weekend. I was thinking that some of the tiles would have to be cut, and that appears to be what happened to tsdiver's bs: the bottom tiles had to be cut to fit.

Is the alternative to cut a little from the tiles on both the top and bottom edges of the bs (and right/left edges, if applicable), thus ensuring that the cut tiles are not excessively small compared to the full size tiles?

Melanie

ANSWER * Posted by bill_vincent (billvincent@hotmail.com) on
Sun, Jun 8, 08 at 18:22

There are a couple of things that could've been done. First, they could've started off with a half tile on the bottom. That way they wouldn't use any more tiles (being that they could get two out of each piece on the bottom) and then cut in what falls at the top. The other (lazy) thing would've been to start with a full tile at the counter and put the sliver up under the upper cabinets where it wouldn't be quite so visible.

One way or the other, as a pro, he should've known exactly what his cuts were going to be all the way around before the first piece of tile was installed, and if the cuts were unacceptable, adjusted his layout accordingly. As a professional installation, that was completely unacceptable, and he wouldn't see a dime from me until he rectified the problems, no matter WHAT that takes. "

Here is a link that might be useful: Dissappointed with backsplash thread

Hi Melanie, Thanks a million. Want to be a bit proactive when the tile install is done!

Judy

Any other questions, don't be afraid to ask! :-)

SOMEONE will quote me!! HeeHeeHee :-)

Thanks, Bill.

Just to think out loud: You measure the height of the space, eg 18 or 18 1/2 inches, and divide that by the width of the tile, in this case 4 inches - they are 4 x 8 subway tile. If it is uneven, put a 1/2 tile on the bottom? Is this the best wayh to lay them out?

Also, we are doing white subway tile and then over the cooktop we will have tumbled marble, painted to match the subway tile, and then painted with a large bowl of red parrot tulips in a blue and white vase. The tumbled marble is a little thicker than the subway tile, does this matter?
If so, what do we do?

Thanks,
Judy

What you want is the COURSING, not the tile itself. That is, you want the size of one tile and one grout joint. Now, for the sake of argument, lets say that the tile is 3 13/16", and then with a 3/16" grout joint, you have your 4" coursing. Then, yes-- you divide the space you have by that number, in this case, leaving 2- 2 1/2". Now, this is half to just a little more than half a tile, which would be fine at the top of the splash, meaning you could start with a full tile at the countertop, and just cut in the bottom of the cabinets. If you want to balance them, though, take off 3/4", so you have a 3 1/4" piece on the bottom, and then you'd have between 2 3/4" to 3 1/4" pieces along the top.

As for where the tumbled marble will be, I would use something to frame it out, like a pencil liner, or rope trim, or chair rail-- something you can use where it sticks out more than EITHER surface, and does so as an accent, and will also hide the difference in thickness between the marble and the ceramic.

Thanks, Bill. Great help and ideas. What is the narrowest grout line I can have between the tumbled marble tiles? Do the grout lines have to be the same between the subway tiles and the marble tiles?

Judy

I would go with no less than 3/16 in the tumbled marble. There's way too much sizing in the stone. And no, the joints don't have to be the same in the ceramic as in the stone.

I'm so glad I read this thread tonight. I just came home with materials to tile my backsplash this weekend -- 3"x6" subways.

The area behind the sink is 6.5" high. It's going to look weird with a 1/2" sliver at the top, isn't it?

There's a 2" gap going the long way. I'm thinking that the 2" tile should go in the dim corner, instead of doing two 1" pieces on each side (one of which is next to the front door, so it's really going to show). Or do I start by just centering the first tile in the middle of the wall (behind the sink faucet) and let the tiles fall where they may?

I think I may be overcomplicating things. I've never done any tiling and I'm afraid of messing it up.

armisteadgardens-- it sounds to me like you're WAY overcomplicating things. First question-- you say there's 6 1/2" behind the sink. I assume this is to a window? The question then is, is that 6 1/2" to the windowsill, or is the apron (bottom trim board) still on?

As for the 2" piece, let me ask you-- are you doing the traditional brick joint, or are you doing a standard straight layout (what's called soldier coursing)?

Also, could you post pictures of what you're starting with?

Thanks for all the input.

Judy

Ha! I'm glad I'm overcomplicating things -- that should mean that actual work will easier than I'm anticipating.

Yes, I'm doing a running bond. Here's pictures of the area. The backsplash will go all the way along the counter on both walls, and up to the cabinets:

Thanks so much for the advice!

Okay. First, measure to the bottom of the window sill. That trim board (apron) can either be removed completely, or just for the installation, and then stuck back on with construction adhesive over the tile and nailed from the sill. My preference would be to remove it completely, if it's going to cause that small of a piece to show. But before I can say that, what's the height from the countertop to the bottom of your cabinets? Maybe we can go at this another way.

Now, as for the two inch piece-- keep in mind, that's actually 2" AND 5" pieces. You don't want to center it and end up with 1" slivers at both ends, if it's not necessary, even though it's only every other tile. Start the full and halves from the end, and work it to the corner.... SO LONG as it works out to decent pieces at both sides of the window. If not, give me the dimensions-- over all, as well as from the end, the distance to both sides of the window.

The space to the cabinet is 15" on the sink wall and 16" on the stove wall.

I'm reluctant to remove the window apron even temporarily because I don't trust myself to do it without destroying the wall. It's glued on. I also love the look of the generous apron, although I'm having a handyman in next week for some other things and I could ask him to cut it down an inch or two, but I'd rather not, if at all possible.

I thought about using a different color of liner tile at the under-window height and carrying it all the way across both sides of the backsplash, but I couldn't find 1/2" liner tiles. I can probably find 1/2" mosaic tiles to achieve the same thing, though.

I lined the tiles up starting on the side where the front door is, and can see that it will look fine that way.

Thank you so much for your help! I am really, really appreciative!

Concerning the 1/2" tile liner, You ought to check a little further. Dal manufactures them every day, and can be ordered thru any showroom or Home Depot. You might even think about putting them between the first and second courses, too, so that they don't APPEAR as a filler to the apron. :-)

I think that will solve the problem. It will add a little interest, too.

Thanks! I'll post photos when it's done.