With just a quick glance a few things jump out a me. You have a marvelous expanse of counterspace that I feel you're not using to your complete advantage. Also, if I was going to have frig drawers in addition to a frig I'd put them closer to the dining side since the main frig is so accessible as it's placed to the family room and cooking area. I don't see the purpose for the two sinks so close along the same run. If the cooking placement is to remain the same; I'd put the prep sink in the island. Off the top of my head, I might also consider two smaller window on the long side with the cooktop/hood placed between them. I'll wait to hear how you feel about these personal insights and then study more with your feedback to see what will work for you. I'm sure some of our real experienced layout gurus will chime in. Some have the ability to do great 3D layouts... I don't. Good luck!

Thanks for your suggestions remodelfla!

I thought about putting my cooktop in between 2 windows on that long wall, but since I'm getting an induction cooktop as opposed to a fabulous looking gas range, I don't really want to make it the focal point. My ceiling is only 8 feet, so I'm also not planning an elaborate hood.

Re: the prep sink, perhaps I could put it at the end of my island near the cooktop and use marble there. I can't put a sink in the butcher block since it won't be waterproof. That way I would marble at both ends. I wonder if that would work?

Not sure what you mean about not using my counter space to its complete advantage? My island will be my main prep area, and I don't want a lot of empty counter space elsewhere, just comfortable landing zones and work areas.

I tried to find fridge drawers that would fit under the lowered end of the island, but they all seem to need standard counter height. I'll keep looking into this.

I tried to put the sink in the island next to the cooktop, but that meant

oops ignore that last line

I just remembered why I had avoided putting the prep sink in the island ... it was because I didn't want water splashing the people seated there. I can't move the seating down further because of the swing of the door to the basement.

Have you considered 2 islands? One longer one for seating/prepping and the 2nd one could be maybe a square shape and lower with a marble top for baking. I included as many angles as I could from the magazine.

You won't find frig drawers to go under a lowered counter. Why can't you put them under the higher side of the island or at he end of the perimeter cabs?

I also agree that the prep sink belongs on the island. The benefit of the prep sink on the island is that you can just go from frig to island/sink to cooktop in fewer steps. How deep do you have the island planned? With an overhang, I'm thinking it looks like at least 39". I don't think you would have a problem with splashing. MOST, and I emphasize most, people like to prep facing out so they can interact with people at the island. All 3 of your tasks, cooking, prepping and cleaning will be with your back to the island.

I also don't like that dead corner to the left of the DO's. You might want to consider just framing out a 24" X 24" box in that corner for the DO's to be installed against.

Or...you could consider something like the layout I posted above, except keep your clean up sink where you have it planned, move the cooktop to where the prep sink is, put the DO's to the right of the frig and the prep sink in the island.

mahlgold:

Thanks so much for your response. I realize that the prep sink should go in the island, but I really want butcher block on my island, and water plus wood is a no-no. In the layout you posted above, there's a sink-less butcher block so I'm assuming they're going fridge to sink to butcher block to stove. That's what I planned to do also, and since my butcher block island would be my prep area, I'd be facing people at the island. Is that too many steps though?

You have a very large area to work with (so nice!) Right now though, the refrigerator, cooktop, & ovens all seem squished down on the one end...making that end look closed in. Also, what appears to be your baking area (marble end of island) is as far from the ovens as possible...

I suggest moving your double ovens to the other end of the kitchen (east end), next to the pantry. Leave that west corner where they were open or perhaps put a glass fronted cabinet similar to what you have on the east end...but keep it only the 12" or 15" deep like the east end. I think it will give better symmetry of the glass cabinets. The tall cabinets (pantry & DOs) will be anchors.

Also, I noticed you're considering glass fronted base cabinets under your marble counter...if that's your baking center and you think you'll be standing in front of it to roll dough, etc., I would not put glass doors there...I'd put wood doors. Why? B/c you would have to be careful not to break that glass with your knees or just moving around there while baking. You'll be standing in front of those doors.

Regarding prepping facing people vs your prep sink on the wall cabinet run...if your prep sink is on the back wall, that is where you will most likely be prepping...yes, you will face the outside, but you will probably not be facing people. This also means your island may not get as much use as you think it will.

Sink in island...Splashing - a 15" overhang will most likely be OK. Besides, if you don't anticipate 3 people sitting at the island, the other stools could be used instead of the one in front of the sink.

Here's a suggestion...incorporating your idea of putting marble on each end with the butcher block in the middle. (Note that I increased the width of the end cabinet to 30". I think the extra depth will be very beneficial when rolling out dough.)

I think Buehl's layout looks good, but I would still consider doing 2 islands and making the 2nd island the lowered baking island. This would also move it in the direction of the dining area which you mentioned has alot of open space. You could probably put 42" of aisle between the 2 islands and be fine.

Not sure what type of pantry cab you are planning, but if you were able to make that pantry 48" wide(which you do have plenty of room to steal from the 66"), you could put the frig drawers with a panel on the bottom right side of the pantry and then do matching real drawers on the left side. On top you could have doors with roll out shelves. My only concern(which may not be a concern to you), is that your pantry storage is far from the frig/prep/cooking area.

BTW...people have done wood tops with sinks in them. If you do a search, you'll find that most are happy with their choices.

Buehl, thank you so much for taking the time to respond. Your drawing helped me SO much, and I think you solved my symmetry problem.

Mahlgold, thanks so much again for your suggestions. I'm working on a new layout with 2 islands. I'm pretty sure that the people with sinks in their wood tops had to seal the wood to make it waterproof, which I can't do because I plan to chop on it. The pantry is giving me trouble because I don't like deep ones; roll-outs don't seem to work well on upper shelves. That area would be perfect for the fridge drawers though ... thank you for suggesting it!

Back to the drawing board,

Erika

This is fantastic and you have a great start and great suggestions.

Looking at Buehl's plan, I would move the prep sink to this side of the island so that others, besides just the cook, can access it, making it more multi-purpose. Ours is situated on the outside corner of our island and it is SO useful. The seating would then shift down.

I think Malhgold's 2 island plan might just work for you.

I do agree that people have wood counters with sinks, but a lot of times it's where they can seal the counter with something waterproof, like Waterlox, because they won't be using the counter for cutting, etc. If you want to use the counter as a true butcherblock, chopping on it, etc., so that it would only be oiled, you'd have to be very diligent if there was a sink. If you want to only oil it, I'd agree with you that a sink would be best in marble or on the perimeter counter.

Hi Rhome!

Did you mean putting the prep sink on the family room side? I tried doing that by shifting the stools down, but I couldn't due to the swing of the basement door. I think I would end up losing 1 stool.

Erika

Thank you Mahlgold and Buehl for your great input!

Here's my new layout. I couldn't seem to find a place for shallow tall pantries, so I added some wall cabinets above the fridge drawers. One good thing about this is that I needed a spot for a toaster. Any opinions about where I put the microwave drawer near the fridge and cooktop?

{{!gwi}}

{{!gwi}}

I still need to find a spot to store my vacuum cleaner and broom...

I plan to put a pot rack on the wall to the right of my cooktop and incorporate some shallow oil storage. If I have room I'd like to do a hood with columns similar to this but smaller and less elaborate:

{{!gwi}}

Again, thanks a million for your help! Please let me know if you see any problems with my layout.

Erika

I think the counter cabs to the left of the sink need to go all the way into the corner. I don't think it looks right stopping it where you have it. (Maybe that's just the software).

I think the 2nd island needs to be deeper and more square. I think that the 2 islands in the pics I posted look so good is because they are different shapes. I think they either need to be distinctly different or exactly the same to pull this off.

You don't really look like you have alot of food storage, but you do have a lot of other storage. Do you need a separate pull out for trash and recycle? Do you need an entire cabinet for colanders? You might want to look at reallocating some of those spaces.

I like where the micro drawer is. Close enough to the cook and the frig and easily accessible from the living room for quick snacks.

Hi Mahlgold!

Yes, that's the limitations of the software. The countertop will run all the way into the corner, but I'll have stainless steel around the cooktop and stone TBD on the sink wall.

I tried making the lower island deeper and square but it started getting too close to the hall entry. I don't want people coming through the door and feeling like they're running right into that island. I spaced it at 5 1/2 feet, which is the distance my current island is from the entry right now. What do you think is a good distance from the entry?

I'm still working on the storage allocation. That's definitely not my final plan. I still have stuff that needs to find a spot. I'm a fanatical recycler so I would like to have a dedicated pull-out for that. I might be able to do away with 1 of the trash pullouts, though, and just keep the one in the island, since it's right behind my cleanup sink.

Re food storage: I'll have at least 2 tall shallow pantries in the dining room for surplus plus I have a huge shelving unit in my basement for Costco surplus.

Thanks again!

Erika

I'm envious of all your space, but this seems like a kitchen that is so large that it is harder to lay it out so that it works really well.

I'm not comfortable with the ovens around an island and down a long hall from the cooktop. Some of your cooking will involve using both, and this set up would be a nightmare for that. Think about cooking Thanksgiving dinner -- the stockpot is going on the cooktop, veggies have to be prepped and sauteed for the dressing -- which has to go down to the ovens. The turkey has to go back to the cooktop to use the drippings to make gravy. You have to watch sides at both ends (at least in my house). Just cooking an ordinary meal and not burning the rolls seems like it could be a challenge. And where do you store flour -- near the ovens for baking, but that's a long way to go for a small amount to thicken something at the stove. Spices -- you'll use a lot of them for cooking and baking. You have room for duplication, but the way you are using the space - you need a lot of duplication.

I think I would look at consolidating the space a bit -- maybe creating a butler's pantry sort of section -- or a sitting area -- or something. I'll look at it some more. You have such a wonderful space. I'd like for it to work better for you.

Thanks lascatx! I'll look forward to your suggestions.

Your points about the oven location are valid. I do make my own gravy and stuffing for Thanksgiving, and I can definitely see how that could be inconvenient. I was only thinking about baking cookies, pizza and bread which is what I use my oven for the most.

In my original layout I had the ovens near the cooktop, but it was pointed out that everything was squashed together at one end. Maybe I should consider separate ovens that can be split up? I think that will be more expensive, but maybe I can make up for it by foregoing the microwave drawer in favor of a regular microwave that could go in the oven cabinet with the second oven. I would have to figure out if having the microwave far from the cooktop will work for me.

In my current kitchen I keep the bags of flour and sugar in my pantry closet which is far from my stove, so I keep little jars of those items in my spice cabinet.

I realize I may be sacrificing some functionality for aesthetic features like a huge window and limited upper cabinets. However, I still want a functional, well-planned layout. I guess it's finding that balance that can be tricky.

Erika

are you absolutely tied to the double ovens? Would you consider a range?

Hi again Mahlgold!

I'm going induction, so I can't do a range. I guess I could buy 2 separate F&P ovens instead of the double and split them up.

I tried making my baking island square like you suggested. I hope it's not too close to the entry ... I'll have to tape it out and make sure. If I move the ovens back toward the cooktop does it look too squashed? I got rid of the upper cabinets around the cooktop, hoping that would make it more open at that end. The ovens are now kind of far from my baking center, but I don't mind carrying cool pans across the room as opposed to hot pans from the stove.

I'm not sure about keeping the glass wall cabinets on the left. I know it will make it look more symmetrical but that's my pantry area, and I know it won't be neat enough.

I tried incorporating a bar area into my hutch by adding a wine chiller and another wall cabinet for wine and martini glasses. I figure I'll stash the toaster and bread box somewhere when we're entertaining guests and using the bar area.

{{!gwi}}

{{!gwi}}

{{!gwi}}

As always, I'm grateful for any suggestions.

Erika

I think that corner between the oven and cooktop will feel kind of cavelike. How about running tall cabs, like you have around the oven all the way to that back wall? That would balance out the tall glass cabs at the other end, maybe?

It would drive me nuts to keep a stand mixer on the island. It would always look like it needed to be put away. It would irritate me more to put it away and have to get it out to use it! So...
Can you move the baking area to the right of the oven and give the square island a different purpose? The mixer could live on the counter under the uppers, and all your supplies could go in the tall cabs I suggested to the left of the ovens...or, better, under the mixer counter, while rice, pasta, etc. moved to the tall cabs so to be close to the cooktop. The mixer's new location would move your coffee area to the right side of the sink, nearer the beverage/snack area.

hi Rhome,

The mixer won't stay out on the island. I made a spot for it underneath already. It's just there in my drawing to indicate that's where the baking station is. ;)

The corner next to the cooktop is stumping me. If I run the tall cabinets to the wall like you suggested, would they be 24" deep like the oven cabinet? I'm frightened of deep pantry cabinets, because I have one now and it's like a black hole.

By the way, did I spy Fisher & Paykel DOs in your kitchen? How do you like them?

I'm going to go work on that corner right now.

Thanks!

Erika

Yes, those are F&P dbl ovens. Still getting used to the convection, I think, but they seem good.

I wouldn't want to have to get my mixer out every time we use it, so I like to leave mine out.

Because the tall cabinets would be over your cooktop counter run, so a little bit of a reach anyway, you'd probably want to do pullout shelves, which might help the black hole problem...Or put in a shallower cabinet pulled out to be flush with the oven?

Maybe you covered this above, but do you need your oven near your cooktop? I don't ever move anything from stove to oven, that I can think of, so if you still want your baking to be centered on that little island, I would consider putting the ovens way down to the right end...then make cabinets to match the shallow tall glass hutch cabinets as shown in the top plan at both ends. I'd use the ones on the cooktop end as pantry. They could be glass to match the dish storage...Or solid if you don't want to see in to all your supplies.

"corner between the oven and cooktop will feel kind of cavelike"

And I can tell you for a fact that you won't be able to use that entire corner for much of anything except storage because you won't be able to use your right arm because it will run into the oven and oven cabinet.

I have some confusion between drawings above where the dining "L" is shown as both 13 feet and 14 feet wide.

{{!gwi}}

Still grumbling under breath about why the kitchen can't be where the dining room is. Why, no, Sister Mary Patricia, I didn't say anything at all.

Rhome,

I just realized I can't put a cabinet in that corner there because the doors would interfere with my pot rack going on the wall.

I did have the ovens all the way on the right end, but lascatx pointed out that at Thanksgiving when you're making turkey and dressing you do go back and forth between the stove and oven with hot pans. I had totally forgotten about that, because I mostly use my oven for baking, not roasting. The ideal situation would be to have one oven under my cooktop and the other oven down by my baking center, but that would cost $550 more. Ouch. For the cooking that only happens once a year, I may need to make the long walk back and forth.

If I move the ovens all the way back to the right, I'd like to put shallow pantry cabinets on the wall left of my window. But I can't figure out how to make the transition from 24" deep counter to 15" deep pantry cabinets.

Not sure I understand your comment about 24" deep counter to 15" deep pantry cabs. Can't you leave the lowers at 24" deep and then do the uppers at 15" deep to the counter and have them be used for pantry. Do they need to be floor to ceiling pantry cabs or am I musunderstanding? In any event, you'll still need to do something with the corner. I think I mentioned it above, but you could just frame out the corner in a 24"X24" square which would make an artificial wall for the 15" deep pantry cabs. Does that make sense?

Can the base cabinets stay at 24" with pantry cab uppers down to the counter? Or angle back...or change counter top and have the pantry be unfitted?

You didn't have the potrack in the first plan, so thought maybe it was an optional addition in that last one. Hard to have one in that corner with any upper cabinets on either of the adjacent walls.

I wouldn't do anything in my kitchen around one day a year, as long as the facilities are available to do what I need to do. I guess I just don't even see the back and forth from stove to oven with hot pans even for turkey and dressing. Make the dressing at the stove, carry that one pan and stuff the turkey (near the oven?), put extra dressing in a casserole dish and put it all in. Maybe there could be a hassle getting the pan with drippings to the stove to make gravy. For me, it would be doable for the advantage of having the ovens near my baking area for the rest of the year, and not creating the cave near the cooktop.

Whole new thought: Did you ever try the cooktop where you now have the dbl ovens and putting the ovens by the fridge? At least that puts the ovens out of the main cook area and makes them accessible for a baker while someone else cooks. You could maybe put counter to ceiling shallow pantries for uppers on the rest of the fridge/oven wall, and have your pot rack between the cooktop and window.

Rhome - I think we just said the same thing about the 15" pantry cabs!

Also, I had suggested moving the cooktop to the left of the sink and the ovens next to the frig. It is similar to the layout of the double island kitchen above except with sink and cooktop switched.

Well, there ya' go, Malhgold. Great minds thinking alike and all that...It can't be that we've just spent too much time together on kitchens and too much time on this forum! Sorry I didn't read your posts above better! You know I get lazy about such things, and in my defense, it was the day I was off reunioning. :-)

bmorepanic,

I know lots of people like their cooktops in their islands, but my little one likes to sit at the island near me when I'm preparing meals, and I know I'd be afraid of spattering her. Sorry if my measurements are confusing, it's actually 13'5" to exact.

I think Mahlgold suggested switching the cooktop next to the sink, and I couldn't figure out how to get it to work. How about this? Would this work?

{{!gwi}}

LOL!! Did we all three have a lightbulb moment at the same time?? I don't know why I couldn't get it to work earlier when you suggested it, Mahlgold. Sorry for my slowness. *smacks self in head*

Making the top of the pantry shallow and keeping the bottom deep will work perfectly! Thank you thank you both of you!

Mahlgold, I agree that framing out the corner is the way to go.

I'm really not seeing any more trouble spots with this layout other than it not being symmetrical. But then again I'm not necessarily a symmetrical-type person. ;)

Erika

I'm sorry, but it's still not working for me. The workspaces in front of the ovens and cooktop are overlapping. That's too close.

I've got a different twist, but I don't have the software you guys have. I may go over my sketch in ink and see if I can scan it at the other computer, but let me describe it a bit and see if it even peaks your interest.

I've kept the fridge where you have it because it seems like you like it there. Next to that I have a pair of pantries and the double ovens -- creating a tall wall of cabinets and going into a corner with a 15 or 18" deep turned and coming down to the counter. That could also be a corner for small appliances (coffee, toaster, mixer).

On that window wall, I have centered the cooktop and flanked it with a pair of windows -- about 4 feet each (you said you wanted maximum view). I put 2-3 ft of counter, then the sink and DW to the right of that. The DW and sink are nearer the dining room that way.

Then, I have what could be a dividing wall or just a switch to tall, deep cabinets -- a narrow utility, an upper coming down to counter height over a base and then another tall utility. This space could be configured many ways for storage of china, holiday and entertaining pieces, etc. One of the tall utility cabinets could be your broom closet.

My idea here is to create a butler's pantry of sorts with what is sort of a tall island in front of it -- a deep base with an upper that has glass doors on both sides hung from the ceiling above it (or not centered and coming down to the counter on one side). I was thinking of a wine cooler here, but you hadn't mentioned one. Your bringing it up made me decide to throw this out for you. The idea is to have a transition from kitchen to dining room without closing it off -- functional but beautiful storage with the front part being able to serve as a serving and entertaining area. The glass doors can display stemware, crystal pieces, serving pieces, etc. For me, this plays into your idea of a large dining room suited to relaxing and entertaining.

To the left of that is an island that can still be 9-10 feet long and provide a lot of workspace and seating for 4 -- maybe 5.

It's different.

And with all due respect for rhome, even in daily cooking -- or even more in baking, I melt butter and chcolate, scald milk for baking, cook syrups or mixtures for cakes, icings, etc., saute onions and peppers that go onto a pizza or other bread. I put my ovens near my cooktop without thinking that they needed to be near each other, but I am really glad they are. I use them together more than I really thought about.

I meant to have the ovens next to the fridge, but with space for shallow pantry or counter between them and the corner...so there wouldn't have been overlap of ovens and cooktop work areas. I do feel it's a better spot for the ovens than at the dining room end, which is why I suggested it after all the other rambling on. :-) Part of what happens when I think out loud and don't go back and delete any of it.

I have to say, though, that part of what you're saying, Lascatx, is you find it helpful to have the stove and your baking area close together, not just stove and ovens (if you're melting chocolate and butter to add to recipes, etc.) That's why I was also (in an earlier post) in favor of having both the ovens and baking area at the stove end. But if the baking area was to remain at the opposite end at the smaller island, I still would want the ovens near that. I can carry a bit of melted chocolate the length of the kitchen easier than I can carry the filled baking pans that far. I hope that all makes some sense!

Yes it does -- the baking work area should be near the ovens, and there is room for it to be at the left side as well.

I'm surprised I'm getting anything posted in anywhere neaer complete sentences. Everything for days or weeks has been interupted by dogs, cats, kids, phone, computer crashes and now -- even the Olympics.

I wish I could put the idea I had into your program -- I'd really like to see it, because as a rough idea, I think I really like it. It may not be something she would like at all though.

Hi lascatx!

I'm trying out your design with my clunky free software right now. I hope I'm understanding everything you wrote. I love the idea of the china display partition. One of my inspiration kitchens had that.

The only thing I may have a tough time with in your layout is giving up that longgggg run of windows ... so many of the kitchens in my inspiration file have them; I keep being drawn to kitchens with that look, and it may be hard to give them up.

What's your feeling about me splitting up the ovens by putting one under the cooktop and the other near my dough-rolling area? I like the idea of 2 islands as opposed to one enormously long one.

One thing I like about the cooktop on the short wall is that I can do the stainless steel countertops there in a separate area from my granite.

Thanks again lascatx, rhome, mahlgold, buehl, bmorepanic and remodelfla. You all are awesome OK, back to work trying out lascatx's layout... I'm supposed to make a final decision about my layout this week, so the pressure in on.

Erika

What I have sketched has the display part drawn kind of like a second island with a double glass cabinet above, so I see it as a variation on the theme rather than giving up on the idea. I've also got eight feet of glass beside the cooktop -- that's nearly 3 times the window I've got, so it seems like a wall of glass to me. I know it's a little different that what you've been picturing, but it's still a lot of window.

I have never had reason to look into the requirements and limitations for doing it, but I have seen cooktops or ranges in front of window with vents hung out in front of them a bit. If you could do that with your induction and a lighter style hood, you would have 12 feet of glass. That's a lot of view either way.

It's probably different from area to area, but we had to check into the cooktop close to a window thing for my sister. It was the exterior vent from her venthood that was the issue...I think something to do with the vented air being drawn back in an open window or something. Anyway, the only code was that she couldn't have an opening window (or opening part of a window) within 3 ft of where the hood vent exhausted to the outside. A fixed window wouldn't have been an issue at all, and, for her, it was easy to get a window that opened on the end that was farthest away from the vent.

Hi Ladies!

lascatx, is this something like what you had in mind for the room divider except the upper cabinets wouldn't come all the way down?

{{!gwi}}

This is what I'm getting for my every day dish storage:

{{!gwi}}

The dining room will have a shallow china cabinet similar to this (different style):

{{!gwi}}

I tried to lay out what you described. Is this close?

{{!gwi}}

Are 3 glass display areas too much? (every day dish storage hutch, dining room china cabinet/buffet, room divider display.)

Erika

Actually, I wasn't sure what I would do on the second island/front of the "butler's pantry", but the balck piece is certainly in the category. I think you could look at doing only an upper, down on the sides like shown above, or even have the glass uppers come all the way down to the counter -- but don't center it in that case -- have one side have a serving area and one side have the look of the cabinets in previous scullery discussions. Which way you chose would depend on how you wnat to use the space and what you want to store/display in the glass cabinets.

The back of that "butler's pantry" is something I pictured similar to the white photo or the wood one or a combination of the two. The wood one has the talls that could give you a broom closet and tall storage. The white has the glass front cabinets (but consider whether that would be too much to have glass in front of glass).

I think the direction I was leaning without being able to see it was to have the back cabinets use maybe 15" uppers and come down to the counter height and be all solid. Let them be the backdrop for the glass piece in front. I see that as dish, linen, seasonal storage -- convenient to the clean up zone and the dining room. The glass front could display serving pieces and stemware. The base could house your wine cooler as well as additional storage with a focus on entertainment needs. You have the room to put the fride drawers in the kitchen proper.

I am going over the sketch in ink. It's not exact -- more of a concept drawing. You can certainly make adjustments and move some things around. You can also see how weird I am. LOL I'll have to scan on the other computer, so I'll come back when I get that done.

My scanner isn't working. I worked on it for hours, loading and reloading the drivers and software since I'm getting an error message saying I need to load or run software. I can't get it to work still. I have asked DH to try scanning it at work and emailing it to me. If that works, I will post later. I haven't forgotten about you, I just can't get anything to work.

I can't upload the scan I have. It is a pdf file and won't upload to photobucket so I can show it to you. I still can't get my scanner to work, and I don't know what else to do.

could you take a digital picture of it?

lascatx:

I'm sorry you're having so much trouble. I really appreciate your efforts. How about doing a print screen of your open pdf file? You can then paste it into Paint, and crop off all the extra stuff and save it as a jpg file.

HTH,

Erika

Lascatx's "concept sketch":

Thank you lascatx and rhome! I'm studying it now. Up way too late, as usual these days.

Erika

Unfortunately, I couldn't do lascatx's layout. My kitchen is too narrow -- 13 feet and I couldn't fit things in.

I went back and looked at Mahlgold's magazine pictures again, and I pretty much copied the layout, with a few tweaks. In the magazine kitchen there's a nice separation between clean up area and cooking area. I wanted to do stainless steel around my cooktop, but I don't think it would look good to transition from stainless steel to stone on the same run of countertop.

I don't think 2 islands work well in my space, because the second island ends up right in front of the entry from the hall. I think I'm resigned to have 1 big island.

{{!gwi}}

As always, any comments or suggestions are hugely appreciated ...

Thanks,

Erika

I'm confused, as Lascatx's design is 13 ft wide, too...What couldn't fit?

But to your new plan: It seems fine, except that it made much more sense to me to have the dishes and cleanup area down by the dining room. This way, to set the table, people are going back and forth through the cooking zones. That's something I'd certainly want to avoid. As I was cooking, I'd want to push dirty dishes toward the clean up area and away...and have someone be able to deal with dishes, whether it be cleanup, put away, or get out for the table, down at that other end.

hi Rhome,

I couldn't get the baking area to fit at all, but now i realize I was trying to put the hutch where she indicated a pantry ... my mistake, I think I'm suffering from sleep deprivation. I see now the hutch would be behind the second island. The second island in general isn't working for me, because of it being too near the entry from the hall.

You're completely right about the dirty and clean dishes being too far from the dining room. Why didn't I see that?? =(

You could switch the dishes/cleanup area back to like you had it, and put the cooktop where the sink is, but with windows to either side, and put the oven where you show pantry on the left end?

Or could try again with Lascatx's idea.

I'm not sure how your entry lines up, but with the sketch I did, you could bring that upper all the way down with glass on both sides and create a display/serving and entertaining hutch. That would allow the focal point to be your displayed china and crystal or decorative pieces instaed of kitchen workspace.

Wouldn't that also line your entry up with the cooktop and ovens? I'd rather that not be seen when the front door is opened and guests enter. An island can be cleared and topped with a vase or a display of some sort, but a cooktop and ovens will always look like the working parts of the kitchen. That's not a bad thing -- just not what I want to see from the entry.

lascatx,

I already have planned for a buffet/hutch/wine bar in the dining room. I love the idea of using that empty area between the dining room and island, but anything I put there seems to crowd the entry from the hall.

I agree that there should be a nice view from the front door and hall, and that my cleanup sink and dish hutch should be nearer the dining room.

One more try:

{{!gwi}}