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Granite installation problems

Posted by KS_Chicago (My Page) on
Tue, Aug 20, 13 at 17:42

Good afternoon. I am having a nightmare experience with Home Depot and their granite installers. We had a guy to come and take measurements of the countertop where granite is supposed to be installed. I indicated the rounded corner with a specific diameter that I wanted to match the other corners in the rest of the kitchen. They sent me a picture of the drawing with the rounded corner but the seem between two pieces of granite was way off to the side. I called back saying that I want a seem in the middle of the corner, just the way the measuring guy drew. They made the change and sent me a new picture with the note :" Repositioned seem to the center". I approved that position of the new seem. However, they also changed the corner from rounded to 90 degrees angle, which I didn't notice. Nowhere in the email or in the drawing does it say that they changed the corner. They came to install last week, when for the first time I saw the non-rounded corner. I refused the installation. They now have the granite and my money and are trying to tell me that I approved the switch from the rounded to 90-degrees corner when I approved the repositioning of the seem.... I am thinking of contactine my credit card company and asking for my money back... What do you guys think?


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Granite installation problems

Do you have the original drawings that the "measuring guy" drew? Are those drawings correct?

If they have your money AND the granite, and you have nothing, I would think you would have a good recourse for getting your money back through your CC company. Are you dealing with Home Depot now, or with the granite installer?

Are you saying that you paid for everything up front, before they actually did the work, or you just paid for the slab and not the installation?


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RE: Granite installation problems

I am a fabricator.

KS Chicago: Unfortunately you have a lot of responsibility for the problem. The reason companies send out approval drawings is to insure the customer knows what he or she is getting. "Not noticing" a detail is not the fault of the supplier.

In your defense Home Depot should have noted both changes from the original. This kind of experience is typical of dealing with 3rd party point of sale situations where a seller (like HD) is simply contracting out the work to a fabricator. Good communication of details is challenging at best and very difficult when a 3rd party is involved.

The good news is a decent fabricator can easily add the radius to the corner (assuming the radius is on a outside, not inside, corner) and then install. Hopefully HD will work with you on this.


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RE: Granite installation problems

Hi jellytoast - the way HD works is you pay all upfront when you place the order. I actually have no idea how much the slab costs and how much the fabricator charges. And yes, the original drawing has the correct radius and in addition, I made the measurer to take a picture of my existing corner to make sure they match it perfectly. So there is a lot of back up material showing my condition of the the rounded corner/radius.

They are trying to figure something out. If it doesn't work - I will be contacting my CC company.


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RE: Granite installation problems

It doesn't matter what your original drawing was. You approved the updated drawing, which had the squared off corner. They fabricated to the drawing that you had approved. The fabricator can easily fight you if you try to go through your credit card company. A merchant can dispute a chargeback and if they have their documentation in order, they will win. I am a business owner and have successfully fought to reverse chargebacks.

It would be better for you to work with the fabricator and HD to get that detail resolved. It seems like a pretty easy resolution on the fabricator's part, especially since they still have your counters.


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RE: Granite installation problems

My fabricator actually rounded the outside corners after install. It was no big deal and took no time at all. Can't they do that? Or are they insisting that you pay extra for them to correct this mistake? This shouldn't be such an issue for them to correct.

I understand what oldryder is saying about "not noticing is not the fault of the supplier." But changing the drawing without permission was a mistake that was the fault of the supplier. I agree with you - they screwed up too, and I think more of the responsibility is theirs. Why did they change the radius in the drawing, anyway? It looks like carelessness.


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RE: Granite installation problems

Thank you for your posts. Yes, they are not saying it is not possible. They want me to pay money for this. I have actually spoken to a lawyer about this and here is where we stand from the view of Contract Law: We had a contract with the 1. rounded corner and 2. centered seem. They messed up the seem in one of the drawings, so I told them to change it. They sent me a new drawing stating that the seem has been fixed. That constitutes a counteroffer from them with the correction of the seem. Please note that in the email from them to me they say: "Please see the new drawing with the seem moved." , nothing about the corner being different. I accepted their change of the seem and told them to proceed - which constitutes my acceptance of the counteroffer re: the seem. He thinks I am good to go with the challenge from the contractual perspective. Hypothetically speaking they could have changed the measurements of the countertop, the edge profile, the type of granite, lots of other things and the burden should not fall on me to notice all these changes if I only asked them to change the seem, especially if they are not mentioning this anywhere in the communication with me. I am still waiting to hear back from them. I have been with my CC for almost 10 years without ever disputing the charge, so if they want to keep me as a customer I think they would work with me...


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RE: Granite installation problems

Good you contacted your lawyer for clarification so you have sound, logical ground to speak on.

When revisions are made, all changes should be highlighted/noted. Drawings are a language, used for that communication purpose. It's not supposed to be guesswork (even if it seems obvious looking back).


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RE: Granite installation problems

However, your understanding of your credit card company's position in this matter is all wrong.


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RE: Granite installation problems

Can you post your counter diagram? I'm not understanding where you want a rounded corner. And the one thing to remember about a rounded corner is that the larger the radius, the larger the overhang has to be in order to not expose the cabinetry under it. So, a large radius and a small overhang are physically incompatible.

And yes, signing acceptance of the change, even if you didn't notice the other change, means that you are on the hook for paying for it. They've offered to install it as was drawn and as you approved, so there is no breach of contract here. You have no grounds for a CC dispute. It will be rejected by your credit card company as buyers remorse, not bad faith from the supplier.


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RE: Granite installation problems

Your fist mistake was in SPEAKING to them about changing the seem. The drawing should have been marked in red or redlined as it is called and marked as redraw and resubmit. Noting like that should be done over the phone ever, you would have had a proper paperwork trail to show what happened. Bottom line you approved the drawing with their alleged mistake


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RE: Granite installation problems

Your fist mistake was in SPEAKING to them about changing the seem. The drawing should have been marked in red or redlined as it is called and marked as redraw and resubmit. Noting like that should be done over the phone ever, you would have had a proper paperwork trail to show what happened. Bottom line you approved the drawing with their alleged mistake


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RE: Granite installation problems

hollysprings - I'm glad you know so much more than the OP's lawyer - mistakes were made on both sides and I think the OP is correct in pursuing it with all available options.


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RE: Granite installation problems

By the way, if this can't be quickly resolved, the OP should definitely dispute the charge - nothing to lose, even if the vendor ultimately wins the dispute. I had a friend who lost a credit card dispute but ultimately won in small claims court.


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RE: Granite installation problems

"And yes, signing acceptance of the change, even if you didn't notice the other change, means that you are on the hook for paying for it. They've offered to install it as was drawn and as you approved, so there is no breach of contract here. You have no grounds for a CC dispute. It will be rejected by your credit card company as buyers remorse, not bad faith from the supplier."

The customer should not have to pay for not noticing the store's mistake. It is still the shop's mistake. This was an amendment where the only change was to be the seam. Unless they are going to lie about that in "court", it's clear that they made a mistake on the order. Passing it off on the layperson because they failed to notice is not really fair.

The resubmitted drawing also noted a change to seam only, in line with the conversation. No other changes were indicated. Revisions should be clearly noted on the drawing, which also was not done. If there was a technical reason that they had to square it off, the professional should have discussed and noted any repercussions of the change with the customer.

While judgment could end up that the OP might not get 100% due to having signed off, I think her lawyer is correct about the agreement. Of course a business wants to pass things off onto the customer by having them sign things, but that does not relieve them of their own errors.


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RE: Granite installation problems

I agree snookums and generally the best way is to peacefully resolve it. It happened, was the partly OP's fault yes, was it partly HD/Fabricators fault yes. Everybody bears some responsibility which is why it should have been stated in writing not in a phone call that the "seem" was incorrect. If it stated and was marked as the "seem" is in the wrong place and to change only the "seem" we would not be having this discussion. The only thing that comes out of CC disputes and the like are hard feelings, so I would definitely try and resolve the issue with everyone giving in a little bit as everyone has some level of responsibility..


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RE: Granite installation problems

Post your kitchen and the counter diagram and we can offer input as to the feasibility of your request.


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RE: Granite installation problems

I agree that both parties bear a portion of the blame and would be in best interests of both parties to seek an amicable solution. I hate to say it but when you go with a boxstore solution you are going to get this type of response vs. a small business owner who cares about their reputation and quality of work. Typically there is a cost saving, but at the cost of customer service as the OP has discovered.

I have to wonder about the lawyer's MO in all this and why he did not suggest this, guess there is no money for him unless there is a lawsuit. If the problem can be corrected, then I suggest splitting the cost to fix the mistake in the middle. Neither party may be happy, but perhaps it's something they can both live with. Going to the hassle of CC disputes and litigation will only cause more money and grief and meanwhile the OP is without countertops.


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RE: Granite installation problems

Who have you been speaking with at HD?
The Decorative Products Manager for the store, officially known, I believe, as the ASM? Above that manager is a Regional Manager Decorative Products Manager who has tremendous clout.

I am just at the end of an 8 month ordeal with a HD Granite install that went horribly bad. Most of the time, I was dealing only with the fabricators. It was not until I stamped my feet and my claim went all the way to the Regional that anything changed. Within 48 hours I was told to select a new slab.

And, just today, I was told that HD would refund all the money for my granite which has been botched three times by CTI allowing me to start over with a new fabricator. Forget about your CC company and start talking to the ASM who will turn talk to the Regional Manager.


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RE: Granite installation problems

Is there usually an additional charge for doing a radius? If so, then maybe they are just trying to add it to the invoice because the payment you made only covered what was in the erroneous drawing, i.e., square edge. Or did you pay before the second drawing?

When I went into HD, they had add on charges for sink cutouts, etc., whereas a lot of other places included it.


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RE: Granite installation problems

Simbasue, you are trully amazing! I called HD the day of your post and asked the number of a regional manager. The second I did that - things started falling in place, with people returning my calls, suddenly they found another slab that is cut from the same black as my old one and they will be recutting with the correct radius/corner. Thank you so much for the tip! I just hope this second attempt will work...

And yes, I did pay extra for the rounded corner when I was placing the order.


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RE: Granite installation problems

Oh, I am so happy for you. I have posted my ordeal under the heading Nine Month HD Granite nightmare.

The thing that surprised me about my problem was that I was left to sort things out with the appt scheduling person. She was very nice and did try to bend over backwards, but at NO time in the 9 months did anyone ever offer to come over and SEE the problem. And, when I finally asked the HD Kitchen Designer if she could, she said, "I don't think I am allowed to."

This went on for months but the moment I really pitched a fit, I was immediately contacted by someone else at CTI and immediately told to go out and find a new slab anywhere that I could find one.

I have no idea what ASM means, but that was the title of the person that wrote me the letter which told they would refund my money. I am totally disgusted with the entire process and I had to go down and rant and rave in the store directly to the ASM before HD finally agreed to give me my money back. They sat on my email for a full 10 days and never said a word. Shabby, shabby, shabby treatment.

The new company who came to templet today were aghast when they saw the pieces still in my house. I was given the option of keeping the bad pieces and paying to have them removed by the new company or having CTI return to remove them. I just haven't had a chance to decide which direction I want to go. I really never want to see CTI again.

I am glad I could help.


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RE: Granite installation problems

@simbasue - ASM is likely the Assistant Store Manager.

Maybe you should keep some of the bad pieces and redo some bathrooms and/or laundry room with the best of it.


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RE: Granite installation problems

" I hate to say it but when you go with a boxstore solution you are going to get this type of response vs. a small business owner who cares about their reputation and quality of work. "

Not true. I have used small companies as well as the big boxes. The small companies were horrendous on backing their work and nothing but trouble. As we can see with the fabricator above and many other stories here. I think they do a lot of commercial work, so the little guy with the little job has no clout, no importance to them. Just some quick cash to squeeze in somewhere. Slam bam done, whatever. Big boxes have policies in place and are usually great with returns and correcting problems. (Although not always, I would never use HD Home Services for anything again. Subcontractors, much as above, extremely drawn out to get things done. I would rather look for my own people to do work than pot luck with subcontracted work. At least now we have Angies.)

At least you had somewhere higher to go to get things taken care of.

P.S. When you choose a particular company/contractor for the work, make sure there is not a clause in the contract where they are allowed to subcontract the work out.

This post was edited by snookums2 on Wed, Aug 28, 13 at 16:38


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