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To DW or not to DW, that is the question

Posted by bob_cville (My Page) on
Mon, Aug 26, 13 at 15:33

I'm remodeling a small duplex apartment that we own and intend to rent out, that we bought at the beginning of the year. When the tenant in this half moved out, we decided to paint it and replace the vinyl flooring in the kitchen/dining room. However upon removing the vinyl, we discovered the floor and sub-floor were soaked and delaminated. We needed to remove the existing cabinets to remove and replace the subfloor. We are finally now past all that and starting to rebuild the kitchen using (free) cabinets that a friend removed in a recent remodel.

The kitchen is small, and we have a very limited selection of cabinet sizes to use to put the kitchen together. After trying to come up with a layout using both corner lazy susans for some time, I finally came up with the following which seems to maximizes the use of the space:

Where:
1 ) 36" corner cabinet with lazy susan
2 ) 27" cabinet for sink
3 ) 36" base cabinet used as a blind corner cabinet. (with 12" door)
4) 24" base cabinet (one drawer, two doors w/ pullouts)
5) 18" base cabinet with 4 drawers
6) 30" base cabinet (one drawer and two doors w/ pullouts)

and a 30" wide range and a 28" wide fridge.

However after coming up with the layout I realized that I could put a 24" wide dishwasher instead of cabinet # 4.

So will a DW work layout-wise in that location, will it work plumbing-wise to be around the corner like that, would a DW be preferable to having more base cabinet space?

Thank in advance for any thoughts.

-Bob


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: To DW or not to DW, that is the question

I think if you did not do a dishwasher it would hurt rental . For sure if younger people are more apt to rent in that area. They are not used to doing hardly any by hand dishes.


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RE: To DW or not to DW, that is the question

My DW is around the corner in my small kitchen and it works just fine. You even have more cabinets in this diagram than I have in my kitchen. I think using a DW would be very easy and wouldn't hurt storage. An additional thought--I just replaced my kitchen and kept the same layout because it works so well!


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RE: To DW or not to DW, that is the question

I would include the DW, however, it cannot go where you have cab #4. No room to stand at the sink when the DW is open! Move the 18" cabinet to position #4 and put the DW next to the fridge. I had a similar configuration in my house's very small original kitchen for more than 30 years and it worked fine. Ruby


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RE: To DW or not to DW, that is the question

I also would opt for the DW. Though it is tiny I think the tenants would appreciate the DW plus the lazy susan and pullouts. A bonus would be an over-the-range microwave so they wouldn't have to put one on the counters.


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RE: To DW or not to DW, that is the question

I had a similar configuration once, DW in about the same place, and it was okay. I just skooched over a step off center from the sink but still in front of it when I was loading the DW, and I didn't drip water across the floor to a DW 2 feet behind me.

On the other hand, if you put the 18" cabinet there, is there a way to remove the side of it and the blind cabinet to kind of give access to the corner from different sides?


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RE: To DW or not to DW, that is the question

I think it depends on the market. If everyone in that area has a dishwasher, and you need it to command a certain level of rent, then you should definitely do it.

I have one rental house and there is no dishwasher. As a landlord, I like the idea of me not being responsible for upkeep on an additional appliance. But, I know my market and it isn't a problem at all.


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RE: To DW or not to DW, that is the question

Have you considered a corner sink? Put the dishwasher against the fridge and you should have room to stand at the sink and open the dishwasher (even an 18" if necessary) without hitting your leg.

This would give you prep space under the window (drawers below) and plenty of storage with the lazy susan. You could have cabinet or drawers left of the range, but for a rental, I'd probably do a cabinet.

From Farmhouse plans

Above the sink, I'd do something like this. Charming and not what you would expect in a rental, but still affordable :)

From Farmhouse plans


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RE: To DW or not to DW, that is the question

Hubby and I lived in the city before moving to our forever home. We also rented there as did all our friends. I can tell you that no DW would be a deal breaker.

I also don't think there is any issue with the #4 cabinet local. In a small kitchen you make due with what you have. If you have to step a bit off center from the sink to load the DW, no biggie.

If you are truly concerned about the cabinet space, you could always put in a 18" DW also. That would depend on who you are planning on renting to though. I would keep it a 24", but if you are getting a single young person who is not likely to be eating at home a ton anyway (is it a small apartment, located near what type of businesses/schools etc..) 18" might be perfect.


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RE: To DW or not to DW, that is the question

I agree with RubyWednesday - move the drawers to the left, DW next to the fridge. This is a smaller version of my kitchen layout, and it works just fine. You just have to get long enough supply and drain lines for the DW.

Do you have clearance to open the fridge in that corner?


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RE: To DW or not to DW, that is the question

(shrugs) I lived in apartments for years. I live in one now while we're building; I guess I learned to make do with whatever was in the apartment. If there is/isn't a dw, or if the layout means some awkward manuevering when you load the dw - that's part of apartment life. It's a small kitchen, so there is probably no terrific layout. I agree with what some of the others have said, though - if other comparable apartments in the area have dishwashers, then yours should have one also.


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RE: To DW or not to DW, that is the question

I lived with a kitchen exactly that size for 13 years. It was a galley, with cabs and appliances on opposite walls, nothing (except a window) on the far end of the room. One side was counter-range-counter, other side was fridge - tiny counter - double sink - counter (with DW under). There was as much accessible storage as with a U (because none of it was in a corner) and more room to move, though my ex still described it as a "one butt kitchen" :)

Agreed that a dishwasher is probably highly desirable in a rental, depending on your market.


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RE: To DW or not to DW, that is the question

"I would include the DW, however, it cannot go where you have cab #4. No room to stand at the sink when the DW is open! Move the 18" cabinet to position #4 and put the DW next to the fridge. I had a similar configuration in my house's very small original kitchen for more than 30 years and it worked fine. Ruby "

I reposted what Ruby said (hope that it OK) because it is Exactly the same thing I would have said....and the same situation..I have had the same configuration as Ruby for 30 yrs...and am now just getting to Remodel and change it...but it worked well. I just want new cabinets and some changes. I do agree with everyone that the DW is a Must!


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RE: To DW or not to DW, that is the question

Based on your cabinet sizes I'm thinking you might be planning an IKEA kitchen? If this is the case I'd actually go down to a 24" cabinet for sink and up to a 15" door on your blind corner. I'd also forget any pullouts (in a rental) and just keep it like a blind corner with shelf. In my opinion it's way easier to get stuff out of a 15" door on a corner than a 12" door and in my rental apartments in the past I sure did stuff that cupboard with little-used stuff. A nice big deep single bowl 24" sink would be totally fine in that size kitchen (IMO).


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RE: To DW or not to DW, that is the question

Thank you all for your input.

robo- Its not an Ikea kitchen, although I used the Ikea kitchen planner to draw it. It is a re-using-used-cabinets-from-a-friends-old-kitchen kitchen. That is an good idea about using the 24" cabinet for the sink, since if I put a dishwasher, the 24" cabinet wouldn't be used.

The sizes of base cabinets that I had to work with are:

2 36" corner base lazy susan cabinets.
1 36" sink base (that is in somewhat poor shape)
1 36" base with 2 drawers and two doors
1 36" base island cabinet (with doors and drawers on one side and fake doors and drawer fronts on the other)
1 30" base cabinet (with one drawer, 2 doors and 2 pullouts)
1 27" base cabinet (with one drawer, 2 doors and 2 pullouts)
1 24" base cabinet (with one drawer, 2 doors and 2 trashcan pullouts)
1 21" base cabinet (with one large door, and a mixer lift)
1 18" base cabinet (with 4 drawers)

annkh- I don't think there will be any problem with the fridge, that short wall segment is only 24", I just drew it wrong in the layout.

lavender- That's an interesting layout, but the plumbing drain stack is just to the left of the window, moving the drain over to the corner might not be feasible.

bpathome- The opposite side of the wall from the back of the blind corner cab is the corner of the living room, immediately behind the front door. There might be a way that the space could be accessed from there, but I'm not sure what it could be used for.

I think I will see if I can get an inexpensive DW and test fit it in that space and in the space next to the fridge, the Habitat for Humanity store had three a week ago, although two were gross looking.

-Bob


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RE: To DW or not to DW, that is the question

A small cubby behind the front door would be perfect for shoes and boots.


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RE: To DW or not to DW, that is the question

I strongly vote for the 18" dw, next to the fridge.In such a small kitchen you will not need more than that and you do need the storage and leg space when the dw is open. You can clean up with a small under sink door mounted or pullout trash, and pivot to load the dw.


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