Okay, crude and will need tweaking and I'm sure the cab sizes here don't match exactly but this is basically what we came up with after going through ALL the ideas and comments and carefully considering the merits and cautions of each. I think this is going to be so much better function wise and it is entirely thanks to you GW'ers. I'd never have come up with this in a million years. So, I hope you can read everything and without further ado.

THE NEW GARDENWEB KITCHEN LAYOUT

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I LOVE the cookbook storage to provide fridge door opening room.
:-)

Sandra

I also really like the bookcase, but then I always love what books do for a room. BTW, it occurs to me that the DW door just could be handy for crowd control now and then. Just polish up your clueless but sweetly apologetic anyway look. :)

How big is the prep sink in the corner in this configuration?

Rosie: I am so happy about the left of sink areas! And yeah, hollering that the DW door is open seems less menacing than "coming through with boiling deep-fry grease!"
Too bad the dog will be able to go under the dw door... he's the one that really gets under my feet, lol.

Shades: I'm glad you weighed in with your thoughts on this type of layout. As I said, I really took everything offered by everyone into serious account. DH gets all credit for the cut-off corner. I don't know what my problem is with seeing diagonals anyway...

Lori: I haven't brought it up to anyone but DH and he's good with it. I imagine we'll make it so we can still pull chairs up and even add table length when we have more than a few people eating. But I've always liked the booth setup with the added + of storage.

Angie: you get an extra thanks for seeing something that I'd never have seen :). Prep sink TBD... have to see how the actual measurements work out as we really nail down the dimension.

Pooh: see, there. Another angle. Didn't see it but if it fits, that totally makes sense. Maybe putting the prep sink where it is in the corner would allow me to shorten the peninsula just a bit so the angle could work out well. That's totally on the short list now, though. Thank you!

Its recommended that the min aisle between two wings of a "U" be 5 feet. Part of the reason is because da chef don't have no stinking room to move out of the way when necessary.

The dining area may not work out the way you want. It's always good to remember a couple of things. People seated at a banquette can't scrunch their chairs forward to fit at an oval table. Banquettes are about 2 feet deep (18" deep seat plus back cushion). You need to maintain space at both ends of the table so people can get into and out of the banquette. I think a lot of banquette are pretty, but they aren't very flexible.

People in a chair take up about 2 feet in depth, but they need a bit over 2.5 feet to become seated. If you want a squish by path behind the chairs - allow about 3 feet. People and their elbows take up about 30" in width at dining or counter height. For the purpose of fast calculations, take your table width plus 5 feet for no aisle. Table width plus 6 feet for a squish by on both sides, or allow table width plus 7.5 feet for a bare walk behind the seated diners.

A comfortable table for 6 is at least 66" long. Dining tables come with widths between 30" and 54". As far as I can tell, the difference is how much room you have to put stuff in the center plus the people on the ends use up some space on the sides too and that gets less as the table gets wider.

Some other thoughts...

Just about every kitchen has places where it "breaks the rules". Its important to me that you understand where the poison lies and know that just about everyone picked theirs.

The first drawing changes the place where the aisle is too small from being the main walkway at the hutch to being a secondary exit from the broken "U". The angled counters mean to at least soften the corners to avoid hip bruises because yes - that opening is small.

There are a couple of reasons why I'd move the kitchen to the porch - but mainly to remove its role as hallway. Both the kitchen and the dining areas seem to fit a little better this way and you could vent the range.

Plus, I can tell you that DH would never go for putting the kitchen over there and really, I wouldn't either. That's the nicest view of the river from the house and it would be a shame to block up the view with cabinets.

I just drew in the bench seating and I totally get that inches count and my heart isn't set on anything that can't be changed.

I thought a bunch of GW people have 4' U shaped area and thought it was okay? And there is always Pooh's idea of angling out the peninsula, too. One good thing, my oven door only need 13" clearance when open.

More to think about...

MOVE your existing dining table out there with as many chairs as you believe you'll need or use folding chairs and some plywood propped up. "Practice" having meals in that space and change the arrangement around as needed. Yeah, your family will think you're crazy - but so what? :)

If you've really got to have another exit to the patio, think about placing it on the short wall. Cause I'd think about leaving the two big plate windows alone. They are bigger than a single patio door.

The 5 foot thing is "the rule". I had that and it worked really well for us. I've also worked enough in 8 foot wide galleys to know it can be an issue when two people are moving around in it. For ME, a 4 foot wide "U" would be a nightmare. For you, it might not be so bad - particularly if you never have another person working with you.

The oven door isn't the only thing that takes up space. The counter overhangs use 1.5" per side. The drawers stick out about 21-22". Doors stick out whatever size they are. People want to use the trash or the micro. An example of the problem is somebody wants to put stuff away from cleanup while you're trying in the middle of something. Granted this should be happening in your current kitchen, but you have less options for movement in a small U.

Another unexpected use for a table, a desk or some sawhorses with plywood are to "try out" the U, umm for about a week. It won't be perfect, but see what you feel like with something sitting in that place and see what walking around it feels like. So check it out in 3D.

On paper, my kitchen could have fit a small island in one place. I got an el-cheapo cart with a fold up extension because it easily fit on paper. In real life, I never used it, it felt completely in the way and it ended up being a junk collector. The same small island in the same position might work for someone else.

There is a freestanding closet on that porch right now, but as soon as the flooring is fixed in the second bedroom, we're going to move that out of there. THEN I will take the table that you see in the porch now (30" wide x 66") and slide it down to the left. It'll block the existing door but tough noogies. We can then get a feel for it, because you're right: 3D works a lot better (for me) than on paper. I've taped out the 48" area on the floor (in my current kitchen) and it is too tight. Even another 6" makes it seem much better. So, I guess I have 2 winner layouts; this U one and the other open one. The ultimate winner will depend on what the space is like when we tear it out and open it all up. There is too much construction crap in that kitchen from the rest of the house remodeling right now for me to mock up anything.

I'm kinda getting a headache.

But this is still my favorite of the layouts so far.
1. I still like the angled corner behind the sink.
2. I like the shortened arm of the peninsula which invites people into a widening pathway as they come in the door.
3. There is room for a conventional table and chairs where the banquette was drawn,The room is 8' deep, and a conventional oval or rectangular table 3' wide x maybe 5' would leave 2 1/2' on each side. Tight, but I think you could live with it on those occasions that you needed to use the entire circumference of the table. Nice to have a table with leaves, so that it would, in the leafless state, not much obscure the view out the big windows. Don't you eat out there now?
4 Are you eliminating the railings? I would prefer to have them gone if they are not support elements.

A final thought: it WOULD be nice to have a dormer over the dining area. Maybe make that a future project? Imagine a high wall of windows where presently you have the two.

You have a great house and an incredible view. Lots of windows in order. I love the metal roof. If I had the house more done, I'd put on a metal roof and dormers or something on my 69' long ranch. I've always wanted a bungalow and have the porch to work with...

I cannot wait to see how this comes out!

From Cottage house plans

And the funny thing by the desk is supposed to be a big plant! LOL

I do like the angled corner, too esp if a prep sink could actually fit in there. In my 'magic' world it does, but IRL, who knows?

We do eat out there now and just love it. You can waste a lot of time staring out those windows at the birds and the river and the trees, I tell ya.

Oh, there is plenty of time to ponder and I guess to look at it in a positive light, it's good to chew on any option so as to make sure you don't miss something. I guess the fat lady hasn't sung on this kitchen yet, lol.

On another OT note, our pebble tile bathroom floor is getting installed in the next 2-3 weeks and then the shower surround, too, so THAT's exciting! And I got an awesome ceiling light for the second BR from overstock that is nicer in person than on the website, looks awesome against the BM wythe blue and it wasn't even a hundred bucks. Small happy dance for that!

Good place to display some art and artifacts on top?

Gotta go.
Have fun.
Sandra