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Layout suggestions - MW placement

Posted by Emma2043 (My Page) on
Sat, Aug 17, 13 at 14:39

We're trying to remodel our kitchen and need help with the layout. The main reasons for the remodel are: our current island is too big for the size of the kitchen; the sinks are too small to wash any large pots or cookie sheets; the cooktop is on the island and has a downdraft vent which doesn't work well. My wishlist: a 36" range with a hood, a large single-bowl sink and a microwave/convection oven (would like to avoid drawer-microwaves).
My plan is to remove the island; make the window smaller and install a gas range with a hood agains that wall and vent it outside. Then the problem becomes where to place the sink, dishwasher and microwave. We cannot increase the size of the kitchen. Opening it up to the dining room is apparently also a problem. So I'm trying to place everything within the walls of the existing kitchen. Can place a sink and dishwasher, but not the microwave. Any suggestions would be welcome. more pictures are posted as follow-up.

This post was edited by Emma2043 on Sat, Aug 17, 13 at 21:51


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Layout suggestions - MW placement

Can you take a couple images and post them ??
Trying to understand your existing window situation..


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RE: Layout suggestions - MW placement

I am posting some pictures of the kitchen described in the original post.


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RE: Layout suggestions - MW placement

Another picture - the window I'd like to make smaller so that I can fit a range against this wall.


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RE: Layout suggestions - MW placement

Wow..you got a toughie. Something is going to be a compromise...
Are you planning to eliminate the island or shorten it ??
Do you have basement access to move things around?


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RE: Layout suggestions - MW placement

We were thinking of elminating the island altogether. We are pier-and-beam so there is a crawl space. We were thinking of installing a single-bowl sink next to the stacked oven-mocrowave; get rid of the oven, and move the dishwasher to its place. The six-burner free-standing gas range will go against the wall with the large window, continued with a cabinet/counter space. Does it make sense?


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RE: Layout suggestions - MW placement

Can you move the door to where the big window is? If you can, you may have a longer continous counter there. Also, I think you may fit a smaller/narrower island for extra storage and counter space.


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RE: Layout suggestions - MW placement

Where would I put the range if I moved the door where the window is now?


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RE: Layout suggestions - MW placement

Where would I put the range if I moved the door to where the window is?


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RE: Layout suggestions - MW placement

I assumed a 36" range and thought it would fit to where you have the door now.


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It is an interesting suggestion. I will have to check with my contractor to see if it is doable. It will involve removing the current porch and building a new one. Also, there are two large a/c compressors in front of that window now that would need to be moved somewhere else. I took those pictures at night so you can't see them in the picture.


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RE: Layout suggestions - MW placement

Moving the door to the long window is a great idea!

Place the sink between the current window and the new one (similar to image below) with the DW to its right. You should have about 24" of counter from sink (36" cab) to corner. If you're able to replace both windows with 3 new ones, enabling you to move the DW as far to the right as possible, you could end up with about 36" to the left of the sink.

Put the range on the wall where the current DW and oven stack are. If I did my calculations correctly, you'd have about 17" of counter on either side of the range (to the corner, not the wall on the right).

You should be able to keep a narrow island for additional counter and storage. If I did the calculations correctly, you could have a 24" island (counter edge to counter edge) with 39" aisles. A bit less than recommended but likely doable, especially since you're used to 30" and 32" aisles now (wowza, that's tight!).

Alternatively, you could create a U kitchen with a peninsula extending out from the wall where the existing door is, put the sink and DW on the peninsula and the range on the opposite side with a MW on a shelf (part of cab unit) above the counter or below the counter to the range's left. You could also opt for a MW drawer in the cab run to the range's left. That would leave you with a huge expanse of counter between the two arms of the U for food prep. I calculated that you'd have 47" between counter edge and counter edge.

Could you take photos of the rest of the room? I'm having a hard time understanding where the interior walls, doors and fridge are (pencil marks aren't dark enough for me to read).


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RE: Layout suggestions - MW placement

Here is the opposite wall with the fridge, pantry door, and more cabinets. We wanted to keep these cabinets. The pantry is very small, and since it is under the stairs it has a slanted ceiling. We're planning to upgrade the fridge of course. I can take more pictures when I get home after work but there is really nothing else in the room.


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RE: Layout suggestions - MW placement

Here is the opposite wall with the fridge, pantry door, and more cabinets. We wanted to keep these cabinets. The pantry is very small, and since it is under the stairs it has a slanted ceiling. We're planning to upgrade the fridge of course. I can take more pictures when I get home after work but there is really nothing else in the room.


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RE: Layout suggestions - MW placement

Thanks for posting the addt'l pics, it helps me understand the fridge placement.

Here's a version of the U kitchen I mentioned above:

 photo EmmaA.jpg

Numbers in cab spaces are cab size. For instance, that's a 12" cab between sink and DW. When using a corner sink, a 12" cab between sink and DW is recommended so that you can stand at the sink when the DW is open.

Numbers with arrows are clearance or counter edge to counter edge with one exception: there is an 18" wide, 12" deep cab to the right of the bar area. The 12" does not include counter overhang (that's the standard 1.5").

SS = Super Susan.

The small rectangles above counter to the left and right of the range and above the end of the peninsula are upper cabs.

The 6" cab between range and Super Susan is a 6" cab pull-out. It's handy for storing spices and such used in cooking.

With this plan, the best place for a MW is a MW hood over the range. Not ideal but given the space limits, doorways and windows, that's how it has to be.

If you don't want bar seating, remove it (and the curved counter overhang) and put in more 12" deep cabs for more storage.

What's to the far right in the image? Is it a wall? If so, you can add more shallow storage on this wall. If you recess them into the wall, you gain a few inches for more depth in the cab. Several GWers have done that with great success.

I have another idea noodling about in my brain. I'll try to get it drawn up and posted later today.


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RE: Layout suggestions - MW placement

I like your cabinets! If you're considering moving the door, why not put the range there? Keep the oven/microwave (or put the new microwave there) and the sink/dishwasher can go on the island. Something like this?

From Farmhouse plans


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RE: Layout suggestions - MW placement

Nice idea, LL, but I don't think it will work. I've tried every which way possible but there just isn't enough room for an island with cabs along the window wall. It's only 119" from wall where the door is to those lovely green pantry cabs.

119
- 25.5 (24" cabs with 1.5" counter overhang)
- 40" aisle to island
- 40" aisle between island and pantry cabs
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13.5"

Waaaay too narrow for an island. Shrinking both aisles to 36" gains 8" total but that only nets an island of 21.5", counter edge to counter edge, still too narrow for an island with a sink and a DW.

I'm staying away from putting the range in front of the windows in case it's against code where Emma lives (the windows are operable).

Here's another version of the U kitchen:

 photo EmmaB.jpg

It's basically as it was before but with a MW on a shelf above the counter like this:

I don't know how you use your MW. If you use it to reheat things and for popcorn and such, this placement isn't an issue. If you use it while cooking at the range, it's inconvenient.

The slightly shaded area below the MW shelf is dead space. I tried to make it large enough for a blind corner cabinet but there isn't enough room to do that.

What's the distance to the left of the far left window?

I have one other idea but I really need to play with it to see if it's even possible.


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RE: Layout suggestions - MW placement

Here's one last idea for tonight:

 photo EmmaC.jpg

I don't know if moving the door as I suggest is possible - you'd need a new header - but I'm throwing it out there anyway. You could replace the existing door with a window so that you have windows on either side of the door. The existing window to the right can stay the same width but the sill would need to be raised to counter height. The MW is a MW drawer.

Your clean-up zone is to the right, cooking zone to the left (prep sink makes this work even better) and your food stations are across the kitchen.

I love your shallow green cabs but if you're open to it, another possibility is to remove these cabs, move the fridge to this wall with a narrow counter to its right or left (can't tell how wide the shallow cabs are so I'm not sure how wide this cab/counter will be). The aisle between cab depth fridge and counter edge would be approx 46" (est green cabs at 12" deep).

Then you can turn the existing fridge space into a pantry with 12" deep shelves on the back and on one side. You could also do a pull-out pantry cab but I'm not sure how that will impact the doorway next to it.


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RE: Layout suggestions - MW placement

This idea came to me late last night when I couldn't sleep.

 photo EmmaD.jpg

No corner cabs, which saves you money (the mechanisms aren't cheap). The only structural changes are to move the door to the far right window and install a new window, at same height as window to its left, in its place.

The MW is either a MW on a shelf above the counter or a MW drawer. The 6" cab is a pull-out for spices, oils, etc.

The 2" filler to the left of the DW is to hold up the counter. ;-) The DW at the end of the galley keeps an open door out of the way of traffic in and out of the galley.

A 24" single bowl sink will fit in a 30" sink cab (see link for one suggestion). This is more sink that you currently have but if you want a larger sink, you could go with an 18" European DW (holds as much as a 24" US model). Or you could make the cab to the sink's right smaller.

I think this plan is my favorite out of all that I've come up with. Fridge and pantry cabs are handy to the cooking area. Aisles are wide enough for two butts ;-) and you've got more storage on the other side of the peninsula (just make sure that the drawers of the cab closest to the door are closed if anyone comes in the door). Plus the peninsula gives you loads of counter space for large baking projects with water source nearby. And it preserves those wonderful green pantry cabs.

Here is a link that might be useful: Blanco Medium Bowl sink.


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RE: Layout suggestions - MW placement

With a 30" sink base you can use the Blanco super single that is about 26" inside, with no cutting of the cabinets.


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RE: Layout suggestions - MW placement

Emma- If you're planning to upgrade the fridge, do we need to move it out of that cubby? Would it be better to bring it into the kitchen and have that area for pantry storage?

Here's Lisa's earlier plan (which I really like) with the fridge and microwave brought closer to the range and prep sink. The separate sink/dishwasher area is by the door, which is handy for cleaning up as you walk in :)

I know you like your pantry cabinets, so maybe you can use the doors (especially the glass) in this plan. The slanted ceiling in the pantry cabinets is not a problem, since the fridge and microwave area is moved forward.

From Farmhouse plans


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