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Not your grandparents' knotty pine

Posted by nosoccermom (My Page) on
Fri, Aug 1, 14 at 12:49


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Not your grandparents' knotty pine

Wait 'till someone turns that faucet on when it's positioned in the middle. Architects. What are ya gonna do with 'em?


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RE: Not your grandparents' knotty pine

I was just thinking the same thing. And that the sink is impossible to put anything but small dishes into.


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RE: Not your grandparents' knotty pine

I do love the wallpaper at the end of the room.


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RE: Not your grandparents' knotty pine

Whoa baby, no it's not your grandparent's knotty pine, and treb and schick, I totally agree...

Thanks for yet another gorgeous image noso!


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RE: Not your grandparents' knotty pine

Wait until someone backs up in their chair off that dining platform.

I do not like that table one bit. No sir, not one bit.


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RE: Not your grandparents' knotty pine

Love it, love it. Especially the mural.


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RE: Not your grandparents' knotty pine

The space between those sinks could be narrowed to less than 2" easily. With a 1/2" radius on each sink cut out, the flat area would only be about an inch or so which would put a heck of a lot less water into the basement or the downstairs neighbor's condo. I don't know how it passed code.

But it looks good, and that's the important thing.


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RE: Not your grandparents' knotty pine

I like the old milk bottle chandelier :)

Some good ideas, some impractical ones.


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RE: Not your grandparents' knotty pine

Treb, this house is in Bucharest, maybe codes are looser there.

Very interesting exterior too. Looks like metal roofing used on the sides -- I like the combination with wood.


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RE: Not your grandparents' knotty pine

I don't care for the kitchen details but like that house! Nosoccermom always finds such great photos!


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RE: Not your grandparents' knotty pine

Although those sinks appear to have overflows which American kitchen sinks are without. I think I would be much more likely to walk off when a kitchen sink was filling than I would a vanity sink, so I've never understood the distinction.

As for some of the things they get away with in Europe, I think they are less inclined to codify the protection of people from their own stupidity than they are here. At least in some ways.


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RE: Not your grandparents' knotty pine

I love it! I could live there! But not with that dining platform, on that I am with annkh. And those cheap plastic chairs in the kitchen. hate 'em!

What I especially love is the warm lines of the wood against the stark lines of the white counter and the cool blue of the glass on the wall. Reminiscent of my all-time dream kitchen.


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RE: Not your grandparents' knotty pine

"I think they are less inclined to codify the protection of people from their own stupidity than they are here"

LOL.


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RE: Not your grandparents' knotty pine

What's a bit strange is that the wall oven (?) is right on the other side of the kitchen table/counter.

Re. faucet, I don't see how it would happen to turn the faucet on when it's between sinks and then walk away.


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RE: Not your grandparents' knotty pine

  • Posted by ctycdm 10b/Sunset 24 (My Page) on
    Fri, Aug 1, 14 at 19:04

" (in Europe), I think they are less inclined to codify the protection of people from their own stupidity than they are here." Love it! That's one more quote to add to the GW book of one liners!
Comes right after the latest classic... "a vent hood that would suck the toupee off of Lorne Greene's head"
Thanks GW! the entertainment here is priceless! ;)

This post was edited by ctycdm on Fri, Aug 1, 14 at 19:12


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RE: Not your grandparents' knotty pine

There is a difference between code and bad design. I see all kinds of "cool" stairs by fancy pants designers that don't meet code. Improper handrails and winders with a 30" drop at the inside radius can seriously injure people, especially children that don't know any better.

Anybody can draw anything. It takes a real talent to draw something "cool" within the safety and sanity that the perimeter of the codes provides.


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RE: Not your grandparents' knotty pine

"Anybody can draw anything. It takes a real talent to draw something "cool" within the safety and sanity that the perimeter of the codes provides."

It takes education. Along with good common sense and thinking skills to understand and master the human factor. Interior designers and architects are trained to design according to code, with safety in mind. They don't just draw pretty pictures. Don't confuse them with decorators who just make things look pretty. The former are professions, with interior designers becoming increasingly regulated by the states, like architects are. Interior design is about interior architecture, not just an aesthetic thing or decorating. Certified kitchen and bath designers also are required to understand building codes and requirements. These are not fluff jobs, which is why the move to regulate not just architects but others who practice design, requiring them to have a certain amount of training and experience before being licensed and/or titled. Part of that training is in construction requirements to protect people and property.


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RE: Not your grandparents' knotty pine

Just in case you ever forget how many tablespoons to a cup while letting your faucet run all over the floor...


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RE: Not your grandparents' knotty pine

Interesting that the house is in Romania. Who would have thought? Not loving the exterior but the interior is interesting.


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RE: Not your grandparents' knotty pine

The flat panel TV just hanging out in the middle of the room. I guess that way you can turn it to face wherever you happen to be.


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RE: Not your grandparents' knotty pine

"Interior designers and architects are trained to design according to code, with safety in mind. They don't just draw pretty pictures."

snookums2:

This has not been my experience.

I could show you the prints for a million-dollar home with winding stairs that were drawn to look like the pictured stairs which were built in the mid 80s. The winders were drawn to die at the same point, creating a dangerous 3-riser, nearly 4, (21-28") first step. Code requires each tread to be 9 1/2" wide at its smallest point. Making the stairs wider at the inside point takes more run, possibly putting the Newall post further into the lower landing than was drawn or desired.

I can promise you that if I were the inspector on the pictured stair, I would have failed them; they could kill someone, especially a child. If the space allocated for the stairs was no longer large enough because of the increased run larger treads would cause, tough, I didn't draw the building. I would have told the carpenter where to put his idiotic drawings. He could whine to the architect that they were built as drawn, and the architect is going to pull out an AIA document that says he's not responsible.

This is why when your tradesman informs you your architect has screwed up, you'd better pay attention. He doesn't want to build the same stair twice and only get paid once.


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RE: Not your grandparents' knotty pine

Trebuchet,

I understand your point. Stairs like that are dangerous. A single step platform is dangerous.(Just as dangerous going "up" when you don't see it because the change of planes is too small to pick up subconsciously).

This city with all it's 18th and 19th century housing stock is full of winder stairs like you picture. When I was house hunting any house that had stairs like this was off the list. On the other hand, if people were being killed or seriously injured on these stairs, especially more than one, or a child, this story would be all over the news, topping the story on a nuclear strike. But below the weather. That's how my news is. Someone getting killed by their own stairs would be a top story.

The reality is that people who have stairs like this make accommodations with extra grab bars and safety gates and things like that. It's a bad idea to design something like this new, and on purpose, but sometimes it's the hand you're dealt. Unfortunately we can't protect ourselves from every danger. But people will carp over the danger of the position of the range and then put their kids in a car, hurtle down the expressway at 55 mph and be talking on their phone and drinking a Starbucks. It's not all rational.

But I am not sure what this has to do with a faucet that could pour water all over your counter and floor if you turn it the wrong way and why there should be a code against it. My carpenter was on the receiving end of an argument between two inspectors who could not agree if "the ergonomics of the kitchen faucet really reflected that hot is on the left and cold is on the right" because it was a single-handled faucet. In the end they would not provided the Certificate of Occupancy. They had to go to Home Depot and get a single handled faucet that the inspectors felt better reflected "hot and cold". That is the sort of code and interpretation of code that I think is too much.

And I know you see a lot of stupid stuff in your work, poorly designed and poorly executed. But not all architects and designers are complete idiots although I know in Gardenweb it's pretty popular to believe so.


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RE: Not your grandparents' knotty pine

"This is why when your tradesman informs you your architect has screwed up, you'd better pay attention. He doesn't want to build the same stair twice and only get paid once."

I most certainly listen to a warning, by anyone. But to imply tradespeople know better than highly trained professionals is grossly exagerrated, imo. I'm sure there are plain bad architects and designers, as is with any field, and you have to keep an eye out for errors while working the plans (expected). That's true In any job.

A lot of times, also, workers note or raise concerns over designs when the architect/designer has already been through all that, scoured over all the details, the choices and tradeoffs have already been made. So while the boss might appreciate a heads up and an alert employee, they don't appreciate that worker raising an issue with the client rather than with them. They could, rather, find themselves off the job.

The education is important. I had contractors here who had not a clue they were modifying stairs against code. A lack of basic understanding of the need for consistent step and riser dimensions. How is that possible, imo. Just glad I had already educated *myself enough. Very basic stuff.

Why the carpenter, in the food chain of the blame game, would absorb the cost of a redo for the stair designer's error makes no sense to me. Why is the cost on him?


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RE: Not your grandparents' knotty pine

Treb, your citation of codes for winders is incorrect. The stair tread can be no less than 6" at its narrowest point, and it must be 9" measured at 12" from the inside edge of the stair or at the centerline of the stair, depending on your area. Existing winder stairs are usually grandfathered in, so if you leave them alone you can keep them (proper handrails are generally still required). As soon as you start to modify them, you put yourself at the mercy of the newest building code, and often the entire staircase will have to be removed and rebuilt.

I have an architecture degree, if that matters.


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RE: Not your grandparents' knotty pine

"Treb, your citation of codes for winders is incorrect. The stair tread can be no less than 6" at its narrowest point, and it must be 9" measured at 12" from the inside edge of the stair or at the centerline of the stair, depending on your area."

I stand corrected. I knew there was a 9 in there somewhere.Thanks. At least I made you look it up, which I should have done.

"But not all architects and designers are complete idiots although I know in Gardenweb it's pretty popular to believe so."

Of course not all architects and designers are complete idiots and I never said they were. Jacques-Emile Ruhlmann, the famous Art Deco furniture designer, used to drive his cabinetmakers nuts with the stuff he drew, but somehow they always managed to pull it off. That's when the system is working properly. Architects pushing the boundaries in conjunction with the trades. Did you know thermoforming, inconspicuous seams, and cove backsplash were invented by fabricators? DuPont, Corian's manufacturer, didn't have a clue.

"Why the carpenter, in the food chain of the blame game, would absorb the cost of a redo for the stair designer's error makes no sense to me. Why is the cost on him?"

Any responsible tradesperson doesn't build out of code, no matter how much/loud the architect, designer, or owner screams. If I don't like it, I won't build it that way. Such is the luxury of self employment. How on earth could you bill for a project with a red tag? I'd die of embarrassment first.


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RE: Not your grandparents' knotty pine

"Any responsible tradesperson doesn't build out of code, "

I understand that, I was referring to this:

"He doesn't want to build the same stair twice and only get paid once."


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RE: Not your grandparents' knotty pine

I didn't have to look it up; knowledge of code is part of a good architectural education.


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RE: Not your grandparents' knotty pine

snookums2:

If a tradesperson builds a stair out of code the first time, knowingly or not, he doesn't deserve to get paid. I don't understand what's so hard to understand about this.


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RE: Not your grandparents' knotty pine

Maybe you'd like to start a different thread about stairs and code?


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RE: Not your grandparents' knotty pine

A lot of tradesmen are laborers working for other people, as in your example: executing for the architect. The architect errs on a code violation, the carpenter Is responsible and pays? I really doubt that is the case.


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RE: Not your grandparents' knotty pine

"Maybe you'd like to start a different thread about stairs and code?"

No, thanks. I think a bit of thread drift makes for healthy discussion and an overall better board.


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