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palimpsest

A biased and situational appliance choice matrix.

palimpsest
12 years ago

I think that people who lived in mixed income, established neighborhoods with reasonably sized houses have the easiest time picking appliances. They can pick appliances with reasonable features, have the space for a typical deep fridge, and can veer from the norm and pick a cheap DW as a space filler because they never use it, or get a pricier range because they want one, and it may not be too obvious because there is not a rigid typical comp.

If you live in a fairly specific type of development, you may be channeled toward making certain choices based upon the norms of the neighborhood. Like my one-car patient who was building in a 3-car garage neighborhood and had to build a 3-car garage.

I am restricted by size. My next kitchen is 7 ft wide and can get no wider. Each kitchen I have gets slightly bigger.In the first one I wanted a full sized range, so the DW and fridge both had to be downsized. At that time the choices were Subzero for the fridge and Miele for the DW or apartment grade, and I went apartment grade. The range was decent middle of the road

The second time around I went Subzero and Miele for the fridge and DW and went with a middle of the road range again.

In the third kitchen (the next one) I have a bit more space, but I still can't do a full-sized fridge. I have many more choices and don't need to go with 24"d and 27"w this time.

I can do a 24" DW and a 30" range.

In discussions with SO, a former chef and pastry chef, here is what we came up with.

A cheap refrigerator is no fun. The low end small one we had in kitchen one burnt everything in the freezer and evaporated the ice cubes because of the frost free. It was hard to clean, the bins seemed kind of "loose" in their spot and things would fall off the door shelves.

A cheap DW is no fun either. The first one blew plastics all over the inside, the utensil basket would tip if not loaded keeping balance in mind, it scorched some plastics and didn't clean well at all.

The range seems to make less of a difference in our house. Meals were good out of the ancient first ranges the apartments came with, even pastry turned out once you understood the idiosyncracies of the the ovens and once they were replaced with something that was at least decent, it was all good.

So in the next house this was the outcome for the kitchen.

We still want a really good DW. The price difference between good and really good is not that much. A DW is supposed to take away a chore and if it doesn't do that, its not working for you.

We probably will not spend $6000 on a Subzero, but Liebherr is certainly a strong possibility and a SZ is not completely ruled out. I've eaten things way after the date on the container out of the SZ, where we've lost stuff before the date in a cheap fridge. (A decent workhorse typical fridge will be too big for this kitchen--except maybe the small Samsung)

The range can be a decent workhorse again, with few bells and whistles "maybe convection". Something has to give in the budget and since a cook works With the stove, its likely that "decent" will fit the bill once again.

What would you go low end on and high end on if not everything had to be low end or high end?

Comments (36)

  • mabeldingeldine_gw
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    What a great question. I've been living for 10 years with a fridge I don't like, an Amana bottom freezer, because it fits the space available when purchased under duress (the day before our backyard wedding!). The gaskets mold, but are too fragile to clean well, the fridge freezes things in the produce bins but stuff in the door isn't cold, etc. etc. I'd LOVE a better fridge.

    I agree that " A DW is supposed to take away a chore and if it doesn't do that, its not working for you." I have a mid-range KA which is OK, but would probably opt for a better one next time as this one sometimes leaves gritty deposits when the plastic upper spray arm gets partially clogged.

    While I'd LOVE a pro-range, mostly for additional burners and pot-space, I've turned out some amazing meals on my basic GE gas range. If it were easy and not too expensive, I'd swap it for a cooktop and wall oven, but for sure would choose the better fridge first.

  • Fori
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I confess, I think all stoves are about the same. Not all, but all coils are about the same, all ceramic-topped electrics the same, all gas the same, all induction the same. The ovens can vary, though. But I've had good cheap ovens and bad expensive ones. So I'd go low end on the stove. (Also, stoves seem to be more standardized than everything else and easier to replace down the road should you end up with a real dud.) I am actually enjoying the convection (probably not "true" convection) in my current electric range, so I might be inclined to budget for that again.

    I can't spend that much on a SubZero. I just can't. I don't need to economize on appliances, but I don't think I could do it. If nothing else fit, or I really wanted to buy American, I could maybe convince myself. But functionwise I've always been satisfied with normal fridges. Never had to use a tiny apartment sized one though.

    Dishwasher? I agree--you don't save much by economizing on them. Might as well get one you like. That said, I like the cheap ones as well as the expensive ones (at least I don't care enough to pay more). The only feature I'd pay more for is dishwasher drawers. And I do.

    So yeah. The opportunities to save are on stove and fridge. Stove definitely because cheap ones are just as good and it'll be a significant savings. Fridge can be a place to save but only if you can find the right size.

  • sas95
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    That is an interesting question. We live in an area where there is much pressure to go high end. Our kitchen reno on a newly-purchased house was also accompanied by a reno of 2 baths and some other stuff that made it cost-prohibitive for us to go ultra high end on everything. In the end, we decided to go higher end on the cabinets, countertop and backsplash tile feeling that these were more "permanent" improvements, and mid range on appliances. It never occurred to us to buy appliances based on the norms of the neighborhood, as hopefully, by the time we sell the appliances will be antiquated anyway.

    Our one splurge was the cooktop. We cook quite a bit, mostly on the stove, and we wanted the whole 8 burner, high btu output thing going on, as well as a powerful fan. We bought a DCS and love it. Double ovens and fridge we went solidly mid-range with Bosch and Kitchen Aid, respectively. They are good performers without a ton of bells and whistles and we are happy with them. We didn't care at all about the DW, and chose a mid-range KA. I know some people rave about their high end DWs, but as long as the dishes come out clean (which they seem to do), there is no enjoyment for me in spending extra $$ for a fancy DW. We had really cheap ones in our last few rentals (which were also fine with me), so our current KA seems like quite the upgrade anyway. Overall, I think I'd make similar choices if doing it over again.

  • beth4
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I think where you are in your life contributes significantly to this question. In my own case, when I moved back to my house after 10 years away, all of my remodeling decisions were governed by the knowledge that I will live in this house for the rest of my life. THIS is the ultimate kitchen, culminating 40 years of adult living.

    So, while my house is in a moderate neighborhood of custom built homes, all of which were built in the late 70s - mid 80s, I made my appliance selections based on what I wanted to use for the rest of my life....without regard to what the rest of the neighborhood had.

    In my own case, I installed the SZ 650 fridge (which I would purchase again in a heart beat at any price because it does such a superior job of preserving fresh produce for 2-3 weeks....I'm just amazed, even after living with it for 6 years). My kitchen is on the small size -- 11 x 13, so I opted for a 30-inch range, and installed the Wolf DF 30-inch range. LOVE, love, love this range. It's a dream to cook on, and delivers the best baked goods and roasts I've ever prepared in other types of ranges. For dishwasher, I installed the FP DDs....I'd had them in my last house in Virginia and really liked the way they cleaned, the extra capacity provided by 2 drawers. I still love this dishwasher.

    All of my appliances work for me and the way I cook, entertain, and spend time in the kitchen. They're all flawless performers, and I've not had a moment of trouble from any of them.

    I wanted to go this route because I knew this would be the last kitchen I'd purchase or remodel or change. Would I have invested this amount if I were only going to live here for a few years???? Maybe not....But permanence certainly affected my choices.

  • abundantblessings
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    All high-end through ebay or other venues. I really can't see, or quite frankly afford as retirees, to pay retail again, even on sale, much to the sad acknowledgment that I'm not supporting mom/pop stores. Although I'd give them a chance to compete and if, w/in close margin, prefer to deal locally as I did with annual close-out sale on DW and wine cooler. I have no problem with getting last year's unused models as the improvements are usually incremental, but did check with Miele to see what the changes were before purchasing.

    But, to answer your question, I've had SZs for 30 yrs, this time went w/KA built-in to save $4k. Plus I have a thing for the metered water dispenser. Food seems to keep fairly well, but not as well as SZ. It is solid, but not SZ build.

    I've had Asko DWs in the old days before they were bought and Miele, this time settled for a top Bosch because of the pan design supposedly being better if it should leak. Cleans well, quiet and a bit cheaper. Once you get to the higher end of DW, I think I'd go w/ whichever has the best price. I'm a little more picky about WD, but have had to scale back as my ideal set up would be $4k. Ouch!!

    You have the wonderful bonus of a SO chef who can probably make magic with nearly anything. I tend to think it's usually the cook, not the cooker as I've enjoyed wonderful meals coming out of relatively primitive kitchens in many parts of the world. I'd defer to whatever your SO wanted. Since I'm the sole cook, having spectacular meals might be a little dicier than in your home, but we manage to eat fairly well. Now that I have induction, must admit I like it. Ovens just need to work; I guess I just adapt to their peculiarities. 2nd time w/ Master Chefs, because I like the rotisseries. But, got a Breville TO this year and mostly use that. Go figure! and meals still turn out decent.

  • davidro1
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Since you are all openminded I'll add that a tall 24"w fridge can be very good. I believe you will be surprised how good. It holds a lot, too.

    GE, Blomberg, Fagor, etc.

    Two of the Summit Commercial CP171 = about $2300.
    Passive freezer cooling. Separate compressor.

  • kitchendetective
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I'm the opposite. The stove meant more to me than anything. I got sick of "working with" a bad oven, turning baked items fifty times, resetting the temperature, etc. Stoves also have some symbolic, hearth-and-home significance. The tiny, quirky kitchens that I adore usually have a charming stove in them. Refrigerators are not that important to me. I never keep fruit and vegetables around long enough to need the ones people claim keep fruit fresh for two weeks (although DH tells me that ours does well at this, based on his experience when I was away visiting a terminally ill relative). We go through tons of salad makings, though, so I need a lot room for lettuce and the like, more than I need long-term storage capabilities. On the other hand, ice is very important to me, so a good freezer or ice maker matters. (This was never the case before I moved to a murderously hot climate, though.) Good dishwashers are a pleasure, but, when all is said and done, I do so many items by hand that I do not even consider a dishwasher an absolute necessity. And I say this as someone who has two in a large kitchen. My old china and silver do not go in, many pieces of bakeware and serving pieces just wouldn't fit, most of my cookware never goes in, and a lot of my old crystal doesn't go in. Given all those limitations, I'd economize on the dishwasher or leave it out completely, if it would help with overall cooking functionality. (Yes, I know that Miele fans claim that once their machines are properly adjusted, even their finest crystal goes in. However, after two--just two--of 20 pieces of Biot glass permanently clouded in my high end Bosch, on delicate, after the detergent composition changed, I was glad that I never hazarded any other good glass or crystal.) Now, if you entertain regularly, and limit dishware and glassware to that which tolerates dishwashers, I'd alter my recommendation.

  • palimpsest
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I think there is such a dichotomy between what is available in smaller sizes.

    My conclusion about ranges (although I would never turn down a Wolf Range) comes from knowing people from the food business and also cooking on some idiosyncratic appliances myself. I grew up with double ovens that never both seemed to work properly at the same time and with which there was a lot of compensation for temperature.

    A DW and a fridge do all the work they are supposed to do for you. A cooktop and an oven, you interact with. My gym trainer (another former chef) is seriously considering replacing his upper middle price point range with a really basic cheap range. He can't afford a high end one, and has had nothing but problems with the electronics in his current one. He feels he can compensate for some lack of features through experience, which is different from when something doesn't work at all.

  • NatalieChantal
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I'm with kitchendetective on this. BECAUSE I interact with my stove, I do not want a frustrating experience every time I approach it. It's a nuisance to continuously adjust for uneven heat in the oven and poor burner configuration and/or outputs. I've never had a DW that bugged me, maybe because I never had a "nice" one? I always scrape off food and pre-rinse, and prefer to wash pots and pans and fragile glass by hand anyway. For fridges, again never had a nice one so I would make do with another cheapie there if I had too. I cannot get into the US custom of buying in bulk so a huge size is not a must-have, and play it safe with freshness for everything, so keeping something fresh past the exp. date would not appeal to me. Of course I am looking forward to having a nice new fridge in my future remodel - currently eyeballing the CD SxS Samsung - but if I had to pick just one high-end appliance, it would DEFINITELY be the cooktop/range.

  • kaismom
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I totally agree with DW. I have had really "good" DW for most of my mid (not early) adult life. (Asko, Bosch and Miele) I took out a 6 month old Bosch because it was NOT to my expectation (because I had a chance) even though it is prob better than 90% of DWs out there! I will not accept mediocre DWs. (price difference about $500 or so between good to mediocre)

    I cook with all gas pro style range. No electronics. I had a mid range gas for a while and my meals were not that different.... Again, agreeing with the PO, it's the skill level not the appliance!

    I now have a Thermador frig with 2 compressors. I must say that it is a huge improvement over what I had before; mid range GE. However, we go through fruits and vegies so quickly that we do not need to keep for a long time. Farmers' markets regularly, organic produce that are in season etc. We shop minimum 2 x per week.
    I do see that I now have a good freezer. It seems to have much less freezer burn. Ice cubes do get freezer burn over months (winter months when I am not using them.) I toss and start again. I also don't get that taste in the ice cubes. (separate compressors?)
    (price difference, $2000 to $4000, much more than a DW)

    If I had a big kitchen, I could buy separate frig and freezer and getting 2 compressors...

  • marcolo
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I don't really see a lot of basic-but-functional options when it comes to ranges.

    First, ovens have evolved an infinite number of ways to suck. It's not just running hot or cold, which I remember was the most common problem back in the day, and you can adjust to. Instead, they have random helpful "features," like turning off when you open the door or broiling the tops of your cookies without being asked to. Cleaning is now out of the question, since the self-cleaning cycle will fry your electronics, oven cleaner will crack off your enamel, and foil on the bottom will fuse itself to the oven. In my experience, "basic" cheap ovens today seem to use wet Kleenex for insulation and view the temperature you set as a timid suggestion, careening between 110 and 500 while promising you 350. You have to go way upscale if you want really neat features like exploding cooktops or oven doors that seal permanently shut with your Thanksgiving turkey inside.

    As far as gas burners go, I don't see the real necessity to cook on six Saturn V booster rockets that threaten to launch your range down to China. However, my bugaboo is the evil closed burners. Your mom or grandma may have cooked on a beautifully configured Chambers burner back in the day, but in order to get that simple functionality back your kitchen, you're limited to three high end manufacturers.

    All of which means, I think the range is the hardest to get right.

    As far as fridges and dishwashers go--I don't eat three week old lettuce, and I see plenty of complaints about SZs and Mieles. So what would justify spending the money there are the size options. Sometimes a tall skinny fridge will make your whole layout work, or a truly disappearing DW will make your creamy white inset dreams come true.

  • ae2ga
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I have to agree with Bethf on this one. Where you are in life - including age, income, years to (or in) retirement, probability of moving, children still be supported, etc. - all have a great influence on the type of kitchen you might create. And, of course, what we like or are willing to buy changes as we get older. When I was doing the single mother with three children thing, the only thing high-end happening in our house was shoes for the one who wore AA width. Now that all of my children are gone, and I have at least another decade+ until retirement, everything for the new house will be exactly as I have always wanted. The range and refrigerator are important to me and are leaning toward high end; the dishwasher, not so much, but I can now regularly use (and hand wash) the "good" china because there are no children to break it. Even at that, high end had limits for my budget, and I've saved for it because I'd hated to be in debt for appliances and tile.

  • kitchendetective
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    ". . . and has had nothing but problems with the electronics in his current one."

    This is key. Avoid electronics. The simpler the range, the better.

  • juniork
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Sub Zero BI 48 fridge (even though I said I wouldn't!)
    Cheaper range (Capital precision, only 36")
    FP dish drawers used, from craigslist for second dw
    either Miele or Kitchenaid kude for first dw
    cheap hood from ebay, but with supposed 1200 CFM

    and no warming drawers, or second oven (we don't bake much, and I'm a wholehearted believer in the Breville toaster oven)

  • sandca
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I am fairly wealthy and can afford whatever I want. However since I could be moving in a few years I didn't want to over-improve my 2200 sf middle-class suburban home for my neighbourhood. My 2 hot spots were a free-standing stove that was visible from the front hallway and a free-standing refrigerator which I felt was a massive eyesore in a small kitchen that really doesn't have a lot of cabinets. I also absolutely hated cleaning the floor underneath and to the sides of these appliances. I didn't care how much they cost I wanted built-in appliances so I bought a Miele integrated 36" counter-depth fridge, 30" Miele induction cook-top and wall ovens (30"convection and speed oven). Although the cook-top is still visible from the hallway, the cabinets underneath it look better than a stove and actually provide more efficient drawer storage. I also bought a new 24" integrated Miele dishwasher because my old Miele was 20 years old. Since I spent so so much on built-in appliances I economized by installing IKEA cabinets. They have a good reputation and are even used by a number of designers in this area (Sarah Richardson, Carol Reed, Suzanne Dimma of H&H mag, Margot Austin of S at H mag). If I can't recoup most of the cost of the appliances I'll substitute cheaper ones when I'm ready to sell.

    If you mean economizing in size. Since my kitchen is very small, I thought about downsizing some of the appliances to give me more storage space but I decided it was better to keep them family sized for resale purposes. I've always had to use storage cupboards around the corner in my laundry room and down in the basement anyways. If space is more of an issue you could downsize to a 18" dishwasher and 24" or 27" ovens. I believe there is also a smaller induction cook-top. How often do most people use more than 3 burners anyways? One can always use small appliances and portable propane or induction cook-tops to supplement. Even though there is only one son and I left at home I don't think I could get away with a smaller fridge.

    If you mean economizing in appliance costs then I'm not sure where I would sacrifice. I firmly believe that you get what you pay for. Cheaper price can be false economy. Energy star appliances are usually higher priced. I've had a cheap DW and fridge and they didn't last very long or function very well. Cheaper stoves are usually not as well insulated so don't function as well. This could be important for a baker. I guess I could have economized with cheaper wall ovens or a slide-in stove (self-cleaning so it is better insulated) with an over the stove fan/microwave.

  • palimpsest
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I find I may also be economizing on cabinets.

    Theoretically, one leg of the layout is going to be a DW and a very large sink base, and the other is going to be two 36" drawer bases. And thats it, the rest is appliances. No uppers (One wall is windows at cabinet height.

    There will be a long wall of semi-shallow storage that may be nothing more than a floor to ceiling set of decent doors with adjustable shelves behind.

    I have found however that I can spend more money trying to make sturdy and somewhat pricey materials and higher end appliances look modest than I do trying to make the inexpensive kitchen look less modest.

  • blfenton
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    My appliances, for this site, are basic. GE Cafe range and Cafe CD fridge. Work fine and I'm not a high end cook although like to experiment with flavours and the Cafe range lets me do that. However I would really like a coil range again and if they ever make a good quality one again I will be first in line.
    The fridge lets me store enough food but I shop often. If I shopped less frequently a CD fridge would drive me nuts. Doesn't hold nearly enough for a family of four.
    Spent money on the Bosch DW because I don't like hearing water splash around.
    Where we did spend money (for us anyway) was on a barbecue. We barbecue a lot and that was a $1300 price tag for that and that's for one without the stove element. That was important for us and we love it. The rest of the appliances are ok but mean little to us.

  • sayde
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I wanted the Blue Star. A 36 would have looked good and I had room for it but I really didn't need more than 30 so that's what I got and no regrets. Wanted really good ventilation as this was always annoyingly deficient in the old kitchen so got a 1200 CFM Prestige and put it in a nice copper hood. However I do wish I had gotten the 36 inch Shaws sink instead of the 30. Dishwasher is important so went Miele and splurged on a Miele speed oven but kept the old (15 years?) KA 48 inch side by side RF -- it's still working fine. Because we decided to do the kitchen ourselves and use our original gumwood cabinets, we spent way less on the total kitchen than the earlier gut/remodel plan and were still able to have the appliances and nice materials we wanted.

  • lalithar
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Great question. I realized for me it is really function over form (effectiveness, efficiency and time saved) over form. I am with sandca that I would rather have fab appliances than fancy cabinets or granite or tile. However I find I am sizing the different appliances based on our use case. We cook vegetarian food and I really want enough storage for produce and fruit. So a nice fridge/freezer optimized for produce. We are a small family and a small induction and a single gas wok unit would work. Small 24" oven ..nice for pastries.. Thanksgiving turkey is not an issue :) A steam oven as a lot of dishes I cook work well with steaming. No coffee equipment or toaster oven so far.

  • mtnfever (9b AZ/HZ 11)
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Perhaps a little non-traditional for a kitchen appliance, but my first choice is the water softener we (meaning DH :) ) installed after a year in our new-to-us house with *extremely* hard water. Dealing with that awful water in the sink, DW, coffee maker, cooking, and don't even think about the fridge ice maker, was horrible. Extend that to the laundry and bathrooms, and yes I'd trade my wonderful cooktop to have softened water.

    Certainly in second place is the Monogram gas cooktop to replace the 30 year old electric smoothtop! Love love love it! Since the altitude (8200') loses us BTUs, a high output cooktop gets us at least to "normal" BTU levels. The DW is a very good Asko that is third behind the cooktop--handwashing cookware makes me very appreciative of *not* washing everything!

    The new-ish GE wall oven (old enough that the model is discontinued) works well enough that I don't feel I have to replace it: even heating, consistent temp. The fridge is new, only because our old one stuck out into the aisle 8-10", and is a middle-of-the-pack Samsung rather than the TOL or a SZ. So lump me in with the "eh" oven and fridge group.

    It's very interesting to see everyone's viewpoint and circumstances!

    cheers

  • dianalo
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Our old dw stunk and got to where we'd debate if it was even worth using. I can't speak for new cheap dws, but our Bosch is fantastic. I don't use all the whistles and bells, but it is energy efficient, cleans dishes and is quiet. We got ours at a scratch and dent sale, for a steal, and it has more options that we feel is necessary. I'd do with fewer features easily, but not ever go back to unreliable. I might even be able to deal with louder than the Bosch, which is whisper quiet.

    I have been cooking on a single induction burner for a few months and think I could do with fewer burners, but would want simple quality. Again, a basic but reliable unit is all we'd need.

    As for the fridge, we don't need high end or fancy but do need as much size as possible. We got separate 30" units and can't see going back until our sons move out approx 20 years from now....lol.... I do enjoy the icemaker that we had to do without for 5 years, but we could skip it if need be.

  • Lesyeuxbleu
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    We are building a really big kitchen but small house (ratio of house to kitchen doesn't justify $$on appliances), and had promised ourselves that we would not buy a high end range. We has also promised ourselves we would not by a 48" SubZero. We'll we did. I had a big SZ at another house and the size alone kept me yearning for another one. I had even considered have 2 normal size fridges, haha. But they really do a great job at preserving food. The newer features (at least on the one we got) include easy change water filters (for ice) and a special cartridge that filters out the gases (can't remember then name) that ie. bananas give off that make food spoil. It also filters the air so that if you store garlic or fish in your fridge - your ice doesn't taste like fish or garlic. NOTE: we have a good friend who is a contractor and has installed quite a few Thermador fridges and he recommended that we not get one. Go with SZ.

    We have always wanted bigger high end appliances with all the bells and whistles. We really only upgraded because we couldn't just pop in a 48" fridge in a 36" space in a few years. Same goes with the 48" Wolf stove. Without a total re-haul of granite and cabinets it was now or never. We are building on a water front lot, but in an older subdivision that is not too "ritzy", so we did it for *us* and maybe a little bit of wow factor if we ever had to resell. Plus I thought a 30" stove would look dumb on a 16.6 foot wall.

    If you will be buying standard size equipment, you can always upgrade later (that usually makes the pill easier to swallow if you do sacrifice).

    I know that for a stove Gas is Gas, electric is electric and never the twain shall meet. But As much as I and my wonderful husband like to cook - the stove is what I would have sacrificed on. It wasn't a deal breaker for me.

    Dishwasher: I also wash most things by hand. it's only the 2 of us, and lots of my cookware are handwash anyway. BUT It is pointless to get a DW that doesn't do a GREAT job. And it has to be quiet. What is the point in running the DW if you have to rewash anyway.

    Best of luck

    PS. when shopping for your appliances (if you do standard size "normal" appliance - try window shopping at HD or Lowes when they change out their models or when they remodel, we have gotten really really good deals - and don't be afraid to ask for an additional 10-20% =).

  • mtnrdredux_gw
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Interesting question.

    I will start with dishwashers. I has an Asko for 8 years in my old kitchen. It was great except the plastic control strip (inside the panel) wore out in about a year. But it was incredibly quiet and cleaned well.

    I had a kitchenaid d/w in a rental for 9months and I thought it did just as good a job, to my surprise. I have FP drawers now and I think they are too small and I dont think they are as good at cleaning as the other two. But they are indeed pleasant to use.

    I had a subzero in my old kitchen and i put one in my new kitchen. I think when i bought my first one they were the only one you could panel. ANd for this one I didnt give it much thought. But I personally have found SZ not that different from ordinary fridges we have (at our lakehouse, and in nanny quarters, for example).

    As for ranges, I had thought that, as long as it's a gas cooktop, it doesn't matter much. But that's not quite true ... i find my gas range at our lakehouse very frustrating because none of the burners can keep a low enough flame for gentle simmering. I had a VIking in my last kitchen, which had ignition issues. I had both a gas oven (supposedly best for roasting) and electric oven (supposedly best for baking) from them, but i could not see a difference between the ovens, except the electric oven was a wall oven and the cool-down fan drove me nuts after you turn it off.

    Our new range is a LaCanche. I love the looks but I don't think it imparts any special benefit in cooking. And we have had it four months with a service call already!

    Gee, I guess in the end I don't find very many functional reasons to go high end!

  • davidro1
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I think the opening paragraphs in the OP set the frame allowing many people to admit easily what they have (or once had) that worked fine. Congratulations Palimpsest!

    In my life, I've seen apartment fridges that worked very well.
    I've also seen socalled better fridges that didn't keep greens edible for long.

    My preference is to spend $1000 to $2000 on a faucet.
    My preference is to spend very little on fridges, that are small and work very well.

  • palimpsest
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    If I could panel the 40 year old fridge in my parents' basement that seems to keep things forever and never presents a problem of any sort, I would think about it :)

  • plllog
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Well, I don't know if it would interfere with the workings, but Frigo Designs does make custom panels for all things...

  • andersons21
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I could spend a ton of money on my remodel, but I am a cheapskate so I'm looking for the cheapest way to get my dream kitchen. We will probably be in this middle class condo till we die, so I'm trying not to cheap out in a way that I will regret.

    Where I plan to spend is for a powerful 36" 6 burner rangetop. On my short list are Capital Culinarian and GE Monogram. I currently have a 20yo Kitchenaid with open burners. The two with 12K btu I routinely wish were more powerful. I am ready to pay the premium for the rangetop vs the cooktop because of the extra space....I like to cook with big pans.

    For a hood, I probably don't want to spend too much on looks. We upgraded the useless noise box to a 600 cfm about 7 years ago, and I might just paint it stainless. But I will probably get a new one with better lighting, more cfm now available, baffle filters, and stainless housing.

    I don't want to spend a lot on a dishwasher, but I do want paneled one. I have used DWs of all price points that worked fine getting dishes clean. I'm not too picky about them. I'd like it to be quieter than our current 20 yo Whirlpool. But I sure hope it will clean as well as this old one, which cleans and dries GREAT even with the dry cycle off, without rinse aid. I'm looking for deals on KA or maybe Bosch or a used Miele on Craigslist.

    My other splurges will probably be for ovens....I'd like a Wolf L or maybe Electrolux Icon single oven plus a Monogram Advantium. The microwave has to be built in because our kitchen already has this, and I don't want to downgrade..plus there is little counter space. Or current MW is underpowered with no turntable, so I definitely want improvement there. I'd like an oven with a dehydrate mode so maybe we can get rid of the bulky dehydrator my husband uses to make jerky (best jerky ever). I am looking on craigslist for both of these items.

    The fridge is a dilemma. I love the build quality of SZ, and the true counter depth. I looked at a 736 tci on craigslist....I would love the look. But the interior was so bare bones! One tiny shallow drawer. Not as good a setup as our current fridge. No ice maker in that SZ for some reason. There was also mildew. My dream fridge would be 36" bottom freezer CD paneled integrated, great build quality for all shelves and drawers, icemaker no dispenser, and filtered water in the fridge. Alas, this either does not exist or if it does, costs a fortune. We actually really like our GE Profile bottom freezer. Shelves are great, drawers are much better than most of the lower end. We bought it about 5 years ago used for 300 bucks. So right now I plan to have panels fabricated for it, and add an ice maker for 100 bucks. I will recess it into the wall which will give me a nearly flush sightline.

    So I'm planning to spend more for the cooking appliances, especially since they will be fitted and built in to cabinetry and/or countertop, thus more difficult to swap later. Notice I'm trying to save by buying used, or through outlets/scratch and dent places. We've bought things used from private parties before and been very happy. We got our fridge about 5 years ago, and an LG dryer a month ago. Each was 2 years old and looked nearly new, so we got $3300 of appliances for $650. I will admit it is a hassle moving them, especially the fridge, so we earned some of our savings there!

  • zeebee
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    My main appliance priority in our reno is a responsive and reliable range. I've cooked for years on crap ones, average ones and have lived for almost 2 years with a range that has nonworking ovens and uneven burners (ok, it's vintage and looks great, but cooking on that beauty is a chore). I really want an oven that holds temperature reliably and cooks evenly, and burners that hold a low simmer. That's it. I don't wok, so super-high BTU burners aren't important. Whether $800 or $8000 gets me the range I want, I'm spending the money there.

    Fridge is second priority. The back wall of our ancient fridge gets supercold - great for beer or cooling leftovers quickly, not so good for lettuce. Good ventilation is important for me as well, as DH is a stinky cheese lover.

    Dishwasher gets the lowest priority. I've never had one that had more than two cycles - normal and heavy wash - and I've been without one for years, so the most basic DW will seem like a Ferrari to me.

  • cawaps
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I hate my cheap range. I was used to a 36 inch range, and this is a 30", and the simmer is not low enough to cook rice. I have 1/2 inch of aluminum foil as a flame tamer, just so I can simmer, and I'm bitter that I waste all that energy producing heat that I don't want and am not using. I also don't love the electronic controls. I miss my old range.

    Not that I need an expensive range. My next move is to salvage the O'Keefe and Merritt from the garage and fix the thermocouple so it isn't unsafe. It's a bit wider, and has vintage charm. Hopefully, it also has a low simmer.

    Have a circa 1992 refrigerator; it's fine. I only lived somewhere with a dishwasher for about two years my whole life (I'm 44), so I have no opinion.

  • flwrs_n_co
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I cook almost everyday so cooktop is most important. I'm planning on a 36 inch cooktop or rangetop (gas or induction) so I don't have clean behind the stove anymore. Whatever I buy has to bring a pot of pasta water to a boil quickly, as well as be able to simmer a sauce evenly and must be reliable. Ovens just have to to keep a steady temp and be self cleaning.

    Cabs are next most important. Not high end (not in budget) but well made. Ikea just opened a store here so I'll be checking their cabs out. I'm also planning on calling some small custom shops.

    Fridge comes in third. Fridge side just needs to keep everything cold and produce fresh. Freezer should keep things frozen. My current fridge freezes everything sometimes. You never know if you're going to have a glass of milk or chunks of frozen milk. And it's ruined more produce than I care to remember. I'm considering going with a built-in KA fridge so I don't have to worry about circulation room around it or clean behind it, but will have to wait and see if budget allows.

    DW just has to get the dishes clean and be reasonably quiet. My current Maytag is a little noisier than I'd like but cleans the dishes just fine.

    I've been told by several friends that we must go with granite--it will be expected. I'll probably go with quartz. We will consider resale value in our decisions since we'll probably downsize to a smaller home once we retire (10 years or so). However, if it takes us 5 years to save to the reno, I will probably want to stay here longer. :)

  • Stacey Collins
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    palimpsest,
    I don't have time to respond fully but wanted to suggest you take a look at the NXR ranges. You probably already know about them: chinese made but with good parts (same burner parts as Wolf etc.) Ours was $1800 for a 30" and we've been REALLY happy with it. It is all gas and has a convection oven. 4x 1500 btu dual-ring burners. I LOVE cooking with it. Friends and relatives with more expensive ranges always comment on how nice it is. My architect brother has a new Smeg in Norway and wishes he had mine :) There are no electronics or computer chips to fail and it's easily serviced by restaurant appliance repair guys with easy-to-source simple parts.

  • bigjim24
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Personally, I've never felt the need to keep up or impress anyone in the neighborhood. Nor do I understand that mentality. That said, I started my appliance search with customer reviews on a wide variety of sites. I also talked with a bunch of appliance repair people before I narrowed down decisions. I did find that some (certainly not all) very high end appliances fared very poorly and some low end basic appliance got great reviews. I think it depends on your preference of functionality.

    Cooking for me, is by far the #1 important consideration. I cook all them time, so the cooktop and ovens need to not only be efficient, but reliable as well. I went with a Bosch 36" induction. And 2 separate ovens with convection. I love them. The induction is very responsive (extremely low simmer and lots of power for fast boil). the ovens bake and broil with ease and great results. But then my old ones were POS to the nth degree.

    My old dishwasher was a 25 year old Maytag. They no longer make 'em like they used to. Went with a Bosch there as well. It's not installed yet but keeping fingers crossed once I start to use it. Right now I'm using the 2 manual dishwashers at the end of my arms.

    The fridge was not a big deal for me. I shop about 4x per week. With adding an island, I did need to go counter depth so I sacrificed a bit of interior space. I'm considering a 2nd remote fridge for parties and entertaining purposes.

    I didn't go low end or high end. Stayed somewhere in the middle. The only thing I can suggest is to narrow your choices and read lots of customer reviews before you make the final decision. An appliance that does not work as purported or is in constant need of repairs is no fun.

  • palimpsest
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I don't think that some people want to "keep up" in order to impress, it's just a matter of what might be expected in a particular type of house. I did a project that involved a tear-down and a new 3x the size house.

    The owners were not at all interested in a Subzero and Wolf, but the house demanded a certain level of appliance to "fit in". They made a pretty good choice of recessed LG fridge, really nice cooktop and hood, decent ovens and ordinary DW. It shouldn't have mattered since they had lived in their old house twenty years, and this was to be their "until retirement" house.

    A year after the project was complete, they separated and divorced. So they could've gone really basic on the appliances because they were always content with that in their old place, but it did matter when they had to sell. Both offers that came in specifically stated that the same appliances be in the house. (I guess all assumptions were off in 2008)

    There *shouldn't be such a narrow parameter of what is expected but particularly in some suburban areas with a narrow demographic, that's the way it is. In my neighborhood where a $6M house sits cheek by jowl with a $300K one, (I am not exaggerating) the field is much more wide open and you can pretty much have what you want.

  • davidro1
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    A neighborhood with a wide range of house types and values is where you get more "human behavioral" permission to spread your purchase decisions across a broader spectrum.

    I think that human behavior is indeed rooted in a keep-up need.
    Similar to, not different from, a need to impress.

  • plllog
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    When we were house shopping, I saw a really darling place with a fantastic back yard. It was bijou. Darling, but smaller than my cheap college apartment. The real estate mavens did rave about the SubZero fridge, but I was used to the 36" ones. I took one look at the bijou SZ and I knew that no matter how I compacted my furniture and my clothes, no matter how many books I let go of, there was no way I could fit enough food for a family occasion in it, and there was nowhere reasonable to stash another fridge unless I built a summer kitchen in the back garden.

    I've heard similar stories from other people.

    The fact is, in certain areas SubZero is code in the MLS for a certain kind of house. In this example, it was an old house from an era when tiny was in--rather than thinking people would rip out the developers' kitchens back then, the developers thought you'd rip down the whole house after ten years and build a "real" one. (Really. They were selling land with a small apartment's worth of house as an incentive, not selling houses with an accompanying lot.) The house had been tarted up beautifully. The closets were dire and pretty revolting--okay size but not finished--but the rest of this little place had had the most made of it. No amount of design and fine finishes, however, could make it anything but itty bitty.

    A lot of the houses around here are just as old, and have small kitchens. They've had SubZero since at least the '60's, because with that one can have ample refrigeration without the tripping hazard of a fridge that sticks out.

    You see, that's what "SubZero" says to the informed client. Not "high end", necessarily, but definitely a possibility of a small kitchen. :) Like in Palimpsest's old place. :)