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granite edge to beginning of undermount sink

Posted by bbs_homeshop (My Page) on
Sat, Aug 16, 08 at 12:05

Hello all.. I'm surviving the removal. I think ;-\.... I'm now being asked where I would like to sink template to go - front to back? Gosh, if someone asks me another question...my mind will blow! Please let me know if there is a standard from the granite edge to the beginning of the physical undermount sink - not the lip of the sink. I have plywood on top of my cabinets now and will add 1.5" to that to factor the granite.

Thanks!!!


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: granite edge to beginning of undermount sink

The person installing the granite should have some suggestions/guidelines, but you want as close to the front as possible, for your comfort, as well giving you room at the back of the sink for whatever faucet mechanism you want.

That being said, mine is about 4 1/2' from the front overhang edge of the granite to the edge of the sink undermount.

Here is a link that might be useful: my undermount sink :)


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RE: granite edge to beginning of undermount sink

The standard is 3" on ANY sink, undermount or not. You use the inside edge of the bowl not the lip of the sink for measurement. 4 1/2 inches is actually quite far back. It might work for tall folks, but for average folks, 3" is what you should be using.

I'm not a fan of customizing for tall or short (I'm 5' tall). Mostly because I'd like to someday sell my home to anyone, not just little people :)


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RE: granite edge to beginning of undermount sink

Mine is 3" to the start of the decorative edge, 3 3/4" including the decorative edge. They told me they leave wider for sink trays, but I wanted the sink as far forward as possible. The farther back, the more you have to reach and the more the chance you have of experiencing back problems and fatigue when standing at the sink for long periods. I don't think sinks trays are worth it. On the other hand, if you naturally have a long reach, it may not bother you much, but it still may bother others in the household. I would definitely err on the side of making it closer rather than farther.

Sue


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RE: granite edge to beginning of undermount sink

I would have preferred our sink to be closer to the granite edge, but alas, it's not...(our granite guys don't like to make that piece any narrower). I had thought it would be 3-3 1/2", and I think it's 4". Forgot the actual numbers, but I still wish it was closer.


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RE: granite edge to beginning of undermount sink

Personally, I don't think we can say that there is a standard dimension as far as where the sink is supposed to start. Most sinks have a 3/4" to 1 1/4" lip, that is 1/2" that can create an issue.
First check the PHYSICAL sink, measure the lip, then do the following to get as close as possible to the edge:

1 1/2" + (standard Edge Detail)
3/4" + (Faceframe of cabinet)
? ?/?" (lip of sink)

The total will give you your overall dimension, it could vary from 3" to 4 1/2" depending on your edge detail, sink lip, etc. I've done some at 5" even 7".

Don't forget to check for clearance for the faucets, mostly if you have a backsplash, but also check for the plumbing, sometimes the lip on the sink is big and you must core the faucet hole back a bit.

Also if you want a reveal or overhang on the edge of the sink, don't forget to add or subtract the reveal(-?) or overhang(+?). Most reveals and/or overhangs are about 1/4" but I left the ? for you to decide.

As a rule of thumb if the sink is small enough to push it back a good 1/4", it will be much better than damaging your cabinet faceframe to make the sink fit.

Hope I didn't get too technical. ; ) This is an exercise that your fabricator should do for you, and you should just approve according to your opinion, not your technical abilities, but it never hurts to have an idea what is supposed to be done.

Vic


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RE: granite edge to beginning of undermount sink

But vic, that's why I said 3" to the edge of the inside of the bowl. That's what they teach us in design school (yes I'm a design school drop out, but I did pass that test) :oP You don't measure lip or anything else, you use the bowl, and then of course the faucet detail should be factored in.

There isn't a 1 1/2" standard edge detail anymore. Insets are 3/4" and then you can be anywhere from 1 1/4 too 2" from the cabinet face (my family bath is 2" because the cabinet detail is so prominent).

Ergonomically, 3" is the best all around figure. Taller folks can handle 4, but 3 is a standard figure to start with.

I don't mean to be grumpy but your last line set me off. If I'd counted on fabricators and designers and "professionals" to tell me where things went, I wouldn't be able to reach the bottom of my kitchen sink, I'd have to reach up with a ladder to get to my cabinets, and my shower would be set down at 5'5". Having technical abilities (like the ability to read a tape measure?) is a MUST for someone spending the kind of money that you spend on countertops of any sort. Otherwise, you end up with a 6" sink front edge (noted in another thread).


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RE: granite edge to beginning of undermount sink

Our granite edge (bullnose) is about 3 1/2" from the edge of the inside of the bowl (neutral/flush reveal). We have a tilt out tray that has a ss liner which is about 2" at it's widest (front to back dimension). We wanted to make sure this did not bump up against the body of the sink and in our situation, it works out well.

Photobucket

Photobucket


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RE: granite edge to beginning of undermount sink

Igloochic, does the cabinet type have anything to do with it? I thought at least one person involved in my install mentioned that overlay cabinets required a little more overhang than they could get away with for inset cabinets. Also, some fabricators are willing to go slightly narrower than others in front of the sink because of the risk of cracks during transport and install when there is no seam at the sink. If the sink cutout is in the middle of a long piece and you have 30+ inch area that is only 3" wide, cracks are a risk. I am sure it can be done, but the comfort level of the fabricator with transporting and installing that may vary. I asked for as narrow as they would possibly allow and got 3 1/2" with no seam at the sink (they refused to do one in quartz, which is what I ended up with). I was told they went to 4" when they knew tip outs were involved.
But that is just one large fabricator, the one I used. The fabricator I would have used for granite seams at the sink and I don't think he was as concerned. It might also be dictated to a certain extent by the manufacturer with Quartz, since they carry a guarantee that granite does not. That was the reason not a single one would agree to seam at the sink in quartz.
Anyway, I just wondered if the material and cabinet type and tip outs were considered by most fabricators in determining how far back to put it, like mine seemed to. I do know some tip outs are a little wider than others. Rev-a-shelf alone has them that are 1.68, 2.12 and 2.43 inches deep.
Honestly can't imagine anything, though, requiring a sink to be set back 6-7 inches and I certainly wouldn't want to work at it.

Sue


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RE: granite edge to beginning of undermount sink

Most of the ones I do are usually around 4", but an
occasional 3" to 3 1/2" span gets in the mix - I think it's
part subjective, part what you have to work with...

just my .02 worth (Laurie 2008 - your pics look cool!)

kevin


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RE: granite edge to beginning of undermount sink

Typically you determine your overhang based on what you want to cover. So that includes both your cabinet box face (which is normally 3/4) and then if you have doors outside of the box face, those are also typcially 3/4. For full or partial overlay, you want to see an edge profile around 1 1/2 to 1 1/4 inches from the box front (where the doors touch it when closed). That allows your doors to be fully covered by counter so when you have a spill, it (should) wick off the counter and on to the floor instead of dripping down INTO your cabinets and covering the doors as well.

With inset doors, you only have that 3/4 frame to deal with since the doors are flush with it. If you do the "normal" 1 1/2 overhang, it becomes too heavy, and sometimes interfears with drawer space access (sure not much, but in small kitchens, every 3/4 counts LOL). So for inset cabs, they extend an average of 3/4 from the box frame face. They can go down a little lower, for instance on the end of my island it's 5/8ths and on the end of the DW it's 1/2 both because of complicated cabinet alterations. The DW issue of spills is a non issue because I have marine edges (so water won't go over) and the other is so minute you don't notice :) (The width of the chalk board became an issue).

Anyhoo, You can see here that folks have 3" to 4" and perhaps 3 1/2 is turning out to be whatever normal is today :) Obviously it's much less with a farm sink, and much more if someone makes a boo boo.

The deep front can be a real problem in a countertop in a "normal" 24" deep base. If you push back much more than 3" you can crowd the faucet, even making it unoperable.

Tip outs (and more often their hinges) are considered by any good templater. For my main sink, I had to disable the tip out because of the hinges. It rubs against the sink using the 3" offset. Not unusual given the inset cabinets. That 3/4 inch is a big deal for a tip out :) If they didn't consider it, I would have had a suprise today when the installer removed the tipout and said it wouldn't work...but because we knew this in advance (that's the measuring I think we all should be doing that's talking) we actually already had it out.

Sink debth should also be factored. A 12" deep sink set say 4 inches back is going to be a bear to reach into the bottom of. A 9" sink debth and you probably wouldn't notice the reach.


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RE: granite edge to beginning of undermount sink

My apologies if anyone got offended by my suggestion that the fabricator should do this exercise for the customer. It would seem like the right procedure though, otherwise the fabricator can give the excuse that the homeowner approved the dimensions, which wouldn't be correct.

I see that now we have noticed that there are different factors that have to be taken into account, and that the front dimension could vary from 3" to 4 1/2" on most cases.
Some sinks that go on an angle at corners most of the time do go in a little further (about 5"). On vanity tops, we just finished a project for a Church, we placed the front of the sink @ 5", it was a Kohler 2214. I don't know if the architects went to design schools but I'm sure they knew about code regulations :-o. Just kidding Igloo, I see your point and you're right always measure to the bowl, that is what we all do. Friends :-)


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RE: granite edge to beginning of undermount sink

My fabricator just installed Caesarstone with a 6" measurement from the front edge of the counter to the opening of the undermount bathroom sink. Our cabinets are deeper than the standard, but it seems way too big! I wasn't consulted at all, but saw it upon installation. He's done this on both of the sinks in this bathroom. It leaves 7" for the faucet to the backsplash. Is there any fix at this point or do I have to live with it?


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RE: granite edge to beginning of undermount sink

What is the standard size of the granite overhang for an undermount sink with a negative reveal? My fabricator said anywhere from 1/8 to 3/8 inches. Does this sound correct?


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RE: granite edge to beginning of undermount sink

I am a fabricator. We also make sink templates used by other fabricators which are sold nationally so I know a bit more than average about laying out sinks.

The limiting factor on how close to the edge the sink cutout can be is almost always the risk of cracking the rail during fabrication, transport, or installation.

A general rule of thumb is 4" for a typical 2 bowl kitchen sink and 3-1/2" for a vanity sink. (in one post someone mentioned they had a 7" space from edge to a vqanity sink. IMHO thats just wrong for both ergonomic and asthetic reasons.)

With a good fissure free granite (like Black Absolute) or quartz a sink rail might be 3-1/2". less than that and you are really risking a cracked rail.

Factors which would affect the risk of a cracked rail also include the size of the sink run, how close to the end of the sink run the sink hole is, and any challenges associated with handling and installing the sink run at the job site.

vanity tops are less of an issue because even on a 21" cabinet the typical sink (like a kohler 2210 or equiv.) there is adequate rail size remaining. This asserrtion becomes questionable when a customer wants a bigger sink (like the kohler 2211 or equiv. which is intended for use on a 24" cabinet).

hope this was helpful


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RE: granite edge to beginning of undermount sink

The tools available to fabricators these days make the old-school practice of "rodding" for strength at sinks obsolete. Granite has little strength in tension which is moot when it's properly installed on level and flat cabinets. The size of the rail at the sink is dictated by the distance the top overhangs the cabinets and whether or not the cabinets have tip-outs.


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RE: granite edge to beginning of undermount sink

Mine is 4 1/2 inches from the edge of the sink to the end of the granite edge - and I am only 5'4" tall. Works perfectly fine for me.


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