I would not be comfortable about having only a 36 inch walkway behind a slide-in range, especially as that's the route to the fridge. You didn't include your entire laundry room on the diagram, so it's not possible to say definitely, but if you're open to either moving another wall or changing an entrance into the laundry room, you might get a better plan.

Helene

No other walls can be knocked down. So the area up for grabs is the area drawn. Thanks for the comment about the 36" walkway. When I drew the first plan, I omitted the breakfast area altogether and did not remove the wall there. Then the range and counter could go along that wall. However, there was little or no room for an eat-in space in that design. Should I go that route instead?

I agree - 36'' is a tight walkway. Any chance you could do a penisula from where the mechincal closet is now and change the entrance to the mech closet to the family room side? And then put the range in the penisula facing the family room (which would be nice while cooking).

I'd like to see more of the overall floorplan. When you met with a structural engineer, did you say "can we take out *this* wall?" or did you say "what walls can we take out?" I ask b/c I think engineers by nature are pretty narrowly focused and if you only asked, "can we take out this wall? they would probably say yes but not give you any more options. Ie - they are not "out of the box" thinkers and someone like who can think outside of the box, but be able to give you some great layout ideas that still work structurally. Don't get me wrong - your conversation with the engineer could have covered every possible way to open the floorplan and maybe the one wall you are opening, is the ONLY option. I guess I just don't want you to limit yourself and be forced to have a inefficient layout based on limited information. Does that make sense?

Powermuffin, if you stay with this general configuration, how about having your carpenters slide the existing built-in china cabinet down to the DRM end? That would give you a nice stretch of work counter tandem with the island and in good chatting range of that nice nook.

My kitchen also is a bit narrow for an island, so I ignored standard recommendations and set it out the way I wanted it in that space, mocking it all up with cardboard boxes and masking tape so I knew just how it would all work before we went forward with it.

I'm so glad I did because it works really, really well for US with only 35" from stove-wall counter to island counter, even with my husband working there too. I wanted the work areas only a step-pivot apart, anyway, but a very big priority was finding extra inches for the main traffic path on the outside of the island. That's the side I felt we needed wider. Besides traffic practicalities, like yours, it also forms a main corridor and view down the house and thus has a major impact on how the whole home feels.

With my usual if-it-were-mine view, in your space I'd probably want to put the fridge alongside the mechanical closet and also put the stove on that wall, with the sink/DW on the island. That'd get all of your kitchen elements, including fridge, on one side of the island, both for much greater efficiency and to make the whole area feel much more spacious. You'd also be in good chatting range of the nook.

Not incidentally in a narrowish kitchen, I chose a drop-in stove, which fits very nicely in our 26"-deep countertop. It was chosen for fitting within the counter, but I really like it for itself--elegantly simple and you NEVER have to clean under it or down its sides.

With that stove, I chose a separate oven set a bit farther down under the counter so I wouldn't have to stand in front of it when it's heated up. Not at all surprisingly, that 35" gives us enough room to walk (albeit carefully) past/around its open door to baste, etc.

How about your own cardboard-and-masking-tape trials? Get those counters up 36" in the air to see how it all really relates?

Thanks to you all for some helpful info. The mechanical isn't a closet, just closed in air duct. The engineer gave us specific info about those two walls, which originally were the outside walls to porches. One porch is where the new breakfast area will be, the other is where the current breakfast area is. Since there is no 2nd floor over either of the to-be-removed walls, it is much easier removal. I am hoping to put exposed beams there.

I am trying to do a very budget friendly, DYI redo and have tried to keep plumbing, gas and electrical changes to the minimum. I did consider putting a peninsula coming out of the mechanical area, but it makes me feel like the kitchen is encroaching into the family room. I didn't consider putting the range there however. I'll work on some new plans using the great ideas presented here. And will post some options for review. Thanks all- I really appreciate your input!
Diane

Hi, powermuffin, I just viewed your original cabinets on the other thread. I'm so glad you're keeping them--I love vintage cabinets--love the red sink cab, too!

I'm adding your link here, in case folks don't see both threads:

Here is a link that might be useful: Original cabinets

Thinks Mama G. I love them too. I have spent the last 5 years returning our house back to it former glory and I want to keep everything I can that is original because all of it is quality. That is the best thing about old houses - you can have a small old house like mine and the details are still wonderful. Since I am losing the lower cabinets on the right side to a dishwasher, we are going to reuse those cabinets elsewhere.
Diane

Does the doorway into the laundry room exist as of now? Could it be changed to wihtin the breakfast area? It would definitely be a safer location for the slide-in if it were back up against the laundry room.

As to the suggestion of moving the island closer to the sink wall, in my own kitchen I have just about 35 inches between the sink wall and island, which functions just fine, and about 45 inches between the island and fridge, which is the major walkway here. But what concerns me here is having a stove in a narrow island, right in a passageway.

Helene

{{gwi:1933547}}

Welcome back BmorePanic! We missed your "outside the box" thinking!

I like that you've relocated the China Cabinet so it's near the DW for ease of unloading, as well as near the DR where you need to access the dishes when setting the table.

The portable "peninsula" serves a dual function of protecting the Cooking Zone, while increasing your workspace...wherever you need it! Because it's portable, I doubt the "peninsula" could be so long that it "boxes" you in; but it could be long enough to add workspace & protection. If it's easily moved, it could even be used to transport things to & from the kitchen, DR, FR, etc. E.g., you could stage the food for the DR on it and then roll it into the DR. Ditto w/the dishes, glasses, silverware, etc.

If you go w/the portable peninsula (cart), I would increase the DR doorway, if you can, another 6" or so...keep the wall long enough to "cover" the DW door when it's open so people don't run into it when entering the kitchen, but widen it enough so the peninsula/cart can move b/w the kitchen & DR easily.

The range is now much better located...next to the sink with over 3 feet of prep space plus plenty of space on the other side of the range...for both work & landing space. You might be able to move it east a bit more if you need more prep space (I find 42" to 48" to be "ideal"...not too far from the sink but still plenty of workspace for me, ingredients, appliances, dishes/pans, etc.) To preserve as much of the existing cabinetry as possible, I recommend putting the range at the end of the existing run...right where the current wall (that you're removing) is. That way, you keep all the existing cabinetry on that wall.

The range is also in a much safer place, traffic-wise. As I mentioned before, the range and Cooking Zone are protected from traffic (a good goal, btw), plus there's plenty of room on the east side of the range to still have landing or work space and to keep people from passing too close to it when the portable peninsula is elsewhere.

By moving the Laundry Room door, if you can, you have now taken the laundry traffic out of the main/working part of the kitchen. Something I think you'll appreciate over time.

Note...Usually, cabinets that old are "built in place". That means they're all one cabinet with walls to partition the space and attach shelves to. You may also find that the back wall of the cabinets are really the wall of the house/room...i.e., there is no back wall of the cabinets.

My mother's cabinets are over 60 years old and that's how they're built. They're very sturdy, just not as functional as they could be with today's "new fangled contraptions"! (Some of those "contraptions" can be retrofitted, if you're interested in making them more functional. They'll still look the same outside, but you'll have better functionality inside...e.g., roll out tray shelves.)

The drawers, however, are not in as good a shape b/c they don't have drawer glides, they just pull out of the drawer opening...wood against wood. They're a pain to open/close b/c they stick.

If your drawers don't pull out smoothly, you might consider replacing them, at least, with new drawer boxes and installing drawer glides in the existing cabinets. You could then put the existing drawer fronts on the new boxes and they'll still look like the originals, just with better glides. If your drawers work fine, then it isn't necessary.

Interesting design Bmorepanic! And with the explanation from Buehl, it does make a lot of sense. I will print this out and discuss with my husband.

I like the placement of the range, and I like the access to the laundry room better. We had discussed the possibility of a rolling work table since that is one of my biggest issues with the kitchen. Way cool!
Thanks,
Diane

I clearly didn't supply enough info and apologize for that. Here is our latest plan that also shows more detail around the laundry room/exterior of the house. I have added a peninsula by the range for more counter space. It will have storage below. I also would like to put a maple cabinet (free-standing) at the family room end of the kitchen to help break up the line of sight from the dining room to the family room. Can you all give me comments about this plan, please?
Thanks,
Diane

Explanations (with thanks for buehl's earlier ones - hi hon!)

I'd have some concerns about the plan you drew. On the repeat of your drawing, I've sketched some lines showing potential paths when using the kitchen in your plan. In looking at them, think about everyday life in your home - perhaps you are the only chef, perhaps three people cook/clean at the same time. Envision doing common tasks - eating breakfast, holiday dinner, game-on-tv stuff. How much aggravation would all those crossing lines have? How often does someone cleanup or set the table while someone else is cooking? I wonder where you'll keep the dry food and whether that will add to the crisscrossing.

I think it might not be nice to cook there. The only frame of reference I have is the way I cook and how different kitchens have worked out for me - so big grain of salt!

The drawings are ideas - I don't know your space like you do. You have a sorta difficult space and the consideration that you want to save the existing cabinets. I suspect it might take a while to come up with good things that fit for you and da budget. Even to do just small changes, it can sometimes use a lot more planning than a sane person wants to do.

So, the first sketch is thinking about perhaps using all the aisle space for somethin'. it seems possible to have a work peninsula. If you do, you might try killing the breakfast room in favor of stools. It might also work to move the range somewhat into the breakfast room space and use the peninsula for large prep and seating. Could the ref fit under the stairs by the family room?

The second doodle creates a "U" with a tiny island by consolidating the aisles in front of the breakfast area and laundry. This takes two room changes. The family room side of the "U" is created by enlarging the mech space a little - moving the access to the mech space to the family room. This creates space for the ref, an aisle facing tall storage cab or message center with a small set of shelves standing off the ref from the corner. The door to the dining room moves about 14" away from the laundry room corner.

I added shallow, but tall cabinets on the laundry room wall that face the "U" for food or stuff storage - close to prep. A small stand alone butcher block or micro-island would fit into the center of the "U" space.

Again, a sample of YMMV. I have no idea whether either physical change is possible or whether a "U" shaped space would drive you nuts.

The second drawing also shows the breakfast area as a booth - another option for a small scale area that allows for increased seating capacity and table space for kids working on projects. Not shown, but perhaps another possible way of organizing "breakfast room" would be a banquette across the back and two loose chairs. It might be a little more flexible in terms of tables that could be used, table positioning and comfort.

So - just alternates that you might consider. Maybe you'll like one piece of one thing and be able to use it or maybe it'll spark some new idea.

just a comment...if we had only allowed ourselves to move a difficult stairway from the get-go, I could have had a great kitchen in a more efficient place, less hall, and wouldn't have lost 3 feet of my garage. We ended up rebuilding the stairway in place anyhow and I was furious that it had to be done after we'd protected that stupid stairway throughout the planning process.

Have fun stormin' the castle!

bmorepanic, I really like the second drawing and it is funny that the new doorway into the dining room is where the original doorway was. Some PO moved it to accomodate the refrigerator. We considered moving it back a couple of years ago for a completely different reason. I love the arrangement of the appliances in the second drawing. And I love the additional counter space. Thank you, thank you.

I think that bmore has cut to the chase and come up with a much simplified use of the space.

I have an island that is roughly 20x38 and though it is small, it has been very useful.

+1 for bmorepanic's #2. Just make sure the DW is between the sink and china cabinet, not the sink and range.

Also, if that china cab is original, it was probably built in place and may not be moveable anyway.