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Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic:

Posted by rtwilliams (My Page) on
Wed, Aug 8, 12 at 11:35

I have a list of items that when I see them done in remodeling or new build make them look basic or dated from the start. Anyone care to add or dispute? Please remember this is just my opinion and I know that some times due to budget and size limitations it is necessary to have these features in the design.

My top Five things that date a kitchen remodel or make it look builder basic:

1. Raised bar in the kitchen (reserve the raised counter for a basement bar)

2. over the range Microwave hood (a simple broan type under cabinet range hood vent will look much better than a microwave hood)

3. Short 30 inch cabinets (minimum of 36 inch in any new build or remodel)

4. Appliances that are black, white or cream (high end painted appliances are a plus)

5. Travertine tile back splash (I did this one and regret it)

This is just my opinion, if you are remodeling or doing a new build it is worth the extra money to avoid basic mistakes.


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

1. A lot of base cabinets instead of drawers.

2. Common granite

3. The corner appliance garage

4. Islands without any end panels or trim

5. Small square floor tile


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RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

My own top 5


1. Very few drawer cabinets. Drawers are more epensive, but they aren't the place to cheap out. Drawers bring the contents out to you, rather than you having to bend down and hunt for stuff with your bad knee.

2. One central light fixture. That's the worst possible lighting for a kitchen, but it's to code. Remember that code is the minimum needed to get a certificate of occupancy. It's sorta like the D- grade of construction.

3. Plain back panels on a peninsula or island. This is a prominent focal point of the home that will be seen every day and it should look like it's part of the cabinets, not a cardboard box set down in the middle of the room.

4. No molding. Molding is expensive, but it's the finishing touch to all kitchen. Yes, all. Even modern minimalist style kitchens benefit from a bit of a light rail and a tiny bit of straight stock at the top.

5. Blind base corners. Yes, sometimes the architecture of the home is against doing anything else, but there are at least new pullouts that help with the huge empty cavern that BBC are. When I see one in a kitchen that could have had an EZ reach corner cabinet, I shake my head and wonder what they'll do when the small child with the flashlight outgrows the ability to crawl back into the space to retrieve the soup tureen.


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RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

Whoa - let's stop this before you get those people with budget constraints or space constraints or different tastes than you upset.

Raised bar in the kitchen - some want/like it to hide kitchen mess from the family room in an open floor plan

Some people have to or want to put MW over the range because of space constraints or they're in apartments/condos and don't have a choice.

30" vs 36" cabinets - I'm assuming you're talking drawer width. Mine are 30" - I have severe arthritis in my hands and opening 36" drawers with the accompanying weight in them would have been too much for me.

Both black and white appliance are coming back in style and black ones can be stunning.

Common granite - I have the common Giallo Ornamentale because, although the exotic ones are beautiful, it reminds me of the rock that I run over and through in my neighbourhood trails. It connects to my outside better than anything else. I love it.

Many people in todays market and economy are doing cosmetic upgrades and if that means they need new appliances and so budget dictates that they keep their small floor tiles - so be it.

I could go on but I won't. We all make choices that work for us so please keep that in mind.

The only two suggestions that I have seen that are worth exploring and paying for are drawers vs cabinets and good lighting. The one place where energy and time should be spent is on a very functional floorplan - everything else is personal choice.


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RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

So now it's not enough to pay for granite, you have to buy certain kinds of granite if you don't want to look low-class?

Heaven help us.


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RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

Putting a small 27" sink in a giant 36" sink base. I have this in my (rental) kitchen now and it makes me mad that I could have had 9 more inches of cabinet space...

It also has the OPs peeves #1 through #4...but those don't bother me that much as wasted space.


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RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

A lot of people here claim to know what looks high end, but they're still doing white painted cabinets, French country whatnots, marble, stainless appliances, and polished nickel. All dated already. But if that's what you like, go for it.

In this economy, I certainly wouldn't scoff at anyone's finishing options. Not to mention that different parts of the country have very different tastes.

Here in Arkansas, where I just moved, almost every single kitchen we saw had those VCT b&w checkerboard floors. Even "redone" kitchens. It's a matter of local taste.

This thread is about to get ugly. They always do.


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RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

and blfenton, the OP mean height of uppers. 30 vs. 36 - not the width of the drawer bases.


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RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

Yeah.
I wasn't really thrilled with this thread.
I agree that builders will do minimums to get occupancy, but there are also those for whom minimums are dream kitchens.

I agree with lighting.
I agree that drawers are more ergonomic.
I agree that kitchens can be a place to start.
I also agree that most people buy a kitchen, high or low end, and remodel.

  • This from one of those who doesn't have any trim.
    It's lying on the living room floor - got it at a reuse center.
  • From one with 30" (tall) cabinets, who stacked 12"ers on top.
  • From one who has holes in the ceiling where the can lights will someday be.
  • From one who has her self-made butcher block, an improvement over plywood, and other side, Wilsonart. A gift a friend made that gave me a countertop at all. Not only do I love them, but I smile every time I wipe off my laminate side. That was a gift from a skilled heart.
  • From one who picks up cabinets (rather than making them now) at reuse centers and retro fits.
  • From one whose cabinet insides don't match because some are nice and some are nicer painted.

  • From one who paints her cabinets.

    But you know what? Builder or DIYer mistakes, it's my forever kitchen and I can do anything I want with it without being concerned someone won't find it up to speed.

    Ironically with all the beautiful finished homes and kitchens I see, I am grateful I have yet to find myself coveting any of them. I drool, but don't want them. This is mine. All mine. I don't have to please anyone else in this entire world. It's up to speed when I say it is, and it's done when I say it's done.

    I have pretty thick skin, but I found this thread to be insensitive.


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    LOL I think I have every one of the items on this list:
    white painted cabinets, French country whatnots, marble, stainless appliances, and polished nickel

    Going to rip out my kitchen now! :)


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    I agree with blenten and some other posters.....this is going to get ugly fast!

    Some on here are fortunate enough to be able to afford all of the expensive furnishings, but there are others who can not or do not wish to put a fortune into a kitchen.

    I am building a new home, and I plan to use some of the features that others on here find offensive.....so be it. I am semi-handicapped and there things that I am limited doing.....so these type of critical eyes is the reason that I am reluctant to post pictures of what I am doing....it is My house, and I am paying the bill, so be it. No one is walking in other people's shoes, so why be so negative about some people are doing.

    I also have pretty thick skin, but let's not even get this thread going on any further. Say something positive, or not at all~~ Just my 2 cents!


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    I'll debate a couple of those.

    OTR MW: In a small kitchen space, this may be the only thing that makes any sense. One could give up most of a lower cabinet to make room for a MW shelf, but if this means giving up 33% of available upper cab space, would you really choose to do so? I didn't. If you have a kitchen the size of a volleyball court, there's no way to support an OTR MW, but for small kitchens, this is a practical, if imperfect, choice.

    Unclear if the 30" cabs you mention are the height of uppers or the width of lowers. If it's uppers, then I'll agree, someone was just being cheap unless the owner is set on having an upper surface to display her chicken/plate/copper/whatever collection. Hopefully this person also has lots of cabs in general to store all those things we keep in the very tops of cabinets. If you meant width of lowers, then again, it depends on the size of the kitchen. One does try to make cabinetry proportional to the space available.

    Black, white, and cream appliances + travertine backsplash: these are just fashion statements of the moment. It's that "timeless" thing again. I think it's safe to declare that harvest gold and avocado appliances will never make another appearance, their time has come and gone. Black, white, and maybe cream will be around forever as a viable alternative. Travertine is probably yesterday's thing, but I don't think it necessarily "dates" a kitchen any more than the currently popular glazed subways or the not-quite-so-popular-anymore glass tiles. Again, we're into personal preferences.

    Consider this: When I was a Girl Scout in 7th grade, we took a class on good grooming and polite manners. The lady giving it pronounced that ankle strap shoes would never, never! be in good taste. This was around 1963 or 64. Transport this lady to today and she'd probably have the shivers over not-stainless appliances and travertine backsplashes.


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    4 out of 5 on my list have to do with functionality, and only 1 deals primarily with aesthetics. (Light rail molding I consider primarily from a functional standpoint to hide the UC lighting as well as the aesthetic standpoint of the finishing touch it provides.) Functionality trumps almost everything else in a kitchen in my book. There is no point in having a high dollar space without it actually being functional as well. Hats off to Beagles here! Although she doesn't cook, and the pretty stuff is far more important to her than how the space might work, she tried for a layout that someone who did cook could work well in.

    And about that plain jane island back.... You don't have to spend a lot of money to upgrade a plain island back into something a little bit more detailed. The simple thing is to install beadboard. Or, you can take library molding or even just flat stock and miter "boxes" to apply to the flat panels to simulate a panel. It keeps it from looking so flat, yet won't cost much. It just takes a little creativity.

    I personally would rather have a nice laminate in a kitchen than someone who thinks granite is a "must have" and installs an inexpensive granite that clashes with the cabinets just because it's granite and within their budget. Budget is NOT a dirty word! There are plenty of budget friendly choices that do not break the bank and look wonderful! Kitchens where creativity are what you notice are usually not about using the most expensive materials.

    Consistently, the kitchens that get the most comments are the ones that aesthetically reflect their owner's taste more than "resale value". Beagles kitchen is an example of a high dollar very personal kitchen that everyone loves. Mamagoose repurposed the high school lab counters and a whole lot of other stuff in her kitchen. That is another example of a very nice and personal kitchen that people love. And both are about the creativity that went into them, not the dollars.


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    Suzanne, I think that lady would be saying it's not polite to label what might be the choices of others as cheap.


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    Was thinking about this thread.

    I am considering the fact that if someone were looking at a McMansion, perhaps all these "don'ts" would apply.

    However, there are still many in this world who not only couldn't afford one (energy costs? Don't get me started) and frankly, wouldn't take one unless they could sell it.

    That said, I still plan to live in my home until I drop dead (probably the day after I declare it finished). I think, just to piss the mundanes off, I'll stay around a while after that.


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    Having posted my long thing, I've now gone back and read the last few comments before mine. I don't think things need to get ugly - it's just a discussion.

    phoggie and others - don't be reluctant to post your photos. People choose different solutions based on size, price, circumstances, and preferences. I know perfectly well that many here wouldn't choose my finishes for themselves, which is perfectly OK. I also know that my kitchen is representative of many smaller space kitchens and that I have a super-efficient space that solved any number of logistical problems.

    Here it is: not white, partial stainless/partial black, OTR MW, travertine backsplash. The OPs not picking on me, she's just stating a train of thought to be mulled over and bandied about.

    Photobucket

    I've actually been thinking that Shaker cabinets are going to date a kitchen. Have you noticed how prevalent they are at the moment?


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    The best kitchens I've seen on here (imho) have certainly not been tied to the latest style or a high end dollar amount. That's all I'll say.


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    Shaker, totally white, granite of any kind, lots of ornate molding, great rooms, islands, you name it.

    It all comes and goes.


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    Offensive, counter-productive and self-defeating.


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    "So now it's not enough to pay for granite, you have to buy certain kinds of granite if you don't want to look low-class?
    Heaven help us."

    This was in answer to the dated part of the OP question. There were a few granites that were everywhere when granite first became popular, with a lot of brown and gold in them. They went well with the oak cabinets of the day. I associate them with the 90s since everyone seems to want white and gray now.


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    suzannesl - You are exactly correct. I did not start the post to offend anyone.

    What I love about this forum is that it makes you think about the design and aesthetics of your new or remodeled kitchen. As I stated in the OP I understand design and budget constraints.

    I think sometimes people me included get used to looking at friends and families kitchens and are not aware that certain things that you see over and over are not necessarily the best way to go about things. I agree with doing what you love. I made mistakes on my remodel but I still love my kitchen. I lived for 20 years in my last homes builder grade kitchen. I am lucky enough to have the opportunity to have my Dream home and am loving the process of remodeling it!

    Every little decision made so far was made after I consulted GW and took opinions and advice and then formed my own decision.

    I will be remodeling 2 bathrooms in the future and I hope that on the bathrooms forum there is a list of things that I should think about before spending the money and regretting it.

    “Decide what you want, decide what you are willing to exchange for it, establish your priorities, and go to work.” H. Lamar Hunt

    RT


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    Thank you blffenton. I wasn't thrilled with this thread either, and not that I am a frequent poster. I got a lot of great ideas on this forum and am thankful but even with a fabulous remodel it seems I have committed some of the faux pas. I think that is one of the reasons I have hesitated posting my remodeled kitchen. I went from a very tiny townhouse kitchen to something that is very workable for the space we have. I know it would have helped me to have seen something similar but if the majority of posters here are the bigger is better than probably better to lurk. Thanks!


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    I read it this morning and did find it offensive and chose not to reply. What is the point of this thread and whose job is it to judge what is considered cheap or outdated???

    There is nothing wrong with a thread like the one on the 4" backsplash question. That is a person trying to figure out if something she is considering is really out of date. That is different then pointing fingers and judging other people's choices.

    Excuse me, I need to get off the computer and go install my OTR microwave but at least my cabinets are 39"!! AND I am going to put moulding up to the ceilings (don't tell anyone that I didn't use any on my 42's in the kitchen I did last summer)!!


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    I think it has to do with these particular items in the CONTEXT of the house.

    My sister rented a house that was built in the early 2000s in a semi-rural area, and I thought it was ten years older, based on finishes. It had partial overlay oak cabinets, laminate countertops, sheet vinyl flooring, one drawer at the top of each base cabinet, and white appliances, low CFM hood. In the context of what it was (a smallish colonial puffed up to look a bit bigger in a mixed development of small to medium houses), it's what I would expect.

    I would have expected some upgrades in the larger houses that were "better than builder" upgraded on the outside, but hers was the entry level.

    She bought in a slightly less "outward appearance" development, with more modest houses: town houses and twins with some freestanding. The build quality is far superior to that of the house she rented. So, this kitchen has partial overlay cabinets still, the pony wall behind the peninsula still, but granite, wood floors, pendant lighting, undercabinet lighting, and the same grade of appliances as in the other house, but in the black/stainless mix. And an outside vented OTR microwave.
    More drawers, too. The granite is not what either of us would've picked given free reign but it's not bad. Again, with the quality of the build and the price point, it is What I Would Expect. Not magazine worthy, but sturdy and a step up.

    The ISSUE I think is that none of these things may be bad (except poor lighting) in the context of the house that they are in, but they speak to builder shortcuts as the price of the property increases. There are $500K + renos that have kitchens that look like this in my neighborhood, and at THAT price point, it says that the builder is maximizing their profit.

    Why does everybody have to personalize these discussion only to their own context? I think that's a bit narcissistic. There are different correct solutions to the same problem given certain circumstances. My niece drives a battered Honda that embarrasses her somewhat but it gets her where she is going, which is Enough in That Context. When I see one of my patients who is a billionaire driving something similar, I think they are being a bit Cheap, by not having at least a NICE Honda. This discussion is not about YOUR over the counter microwave specifically.


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    Well, it will turn ugly if the--shall we say--poorly-worded OP attracts the Carly Simon contingent, who Always Think This Song Is About Them, Don't They?

    But "builder grade" does have a meaning, and it's not really a good one. The real pitfall to avoid is adopting the "builder's look" wholesale. I had an OTR in a kitchen the size of a closet because there was literally no other place for a micro in the whole condo. But my kitchen was way too weird otherwise to look "builder's grade."

    To get to specifics--I'd caution people to think very carefully about doing short uppers and stopping before the ceiling. ("Hey," Carly cries, "I have 20-foot ceilings! What about ME?") I heard this remarked upon disparagingly more than any other issue while we were in the market to buy a house. If you are trying to save money on cabinets, a better look may be a mix of taller uppers plus open shelving or something.

    And yes, hollysprings is right--it's more about function than aesthetics, and lots of people do fabulous kitchens on tight budgets.


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    Just wanted to comment on the 30" high upper cabinets. We bought the house and there are soffits in the kitchen. As much as I wanted to get rid of these and have taller upper cabients, it wasn't an option without raising the roof due to how the roof line was structured.

    We spent a lot on our remodel but still didn't want to go overboard since we knew we won't re-coup this when we sell. We bought when it was a seller's market so unless things change again, anything we do we are doing for us.

    I don't see anything wrong with granite or travertine or even formica. People make decisions based on what they like and what works best for them. We would have liked to have gone with wood but decided on grouted LVT because of the dog and twin 2 year old grandsons that visit with a lot of toys. It wasn't the cheapest option and now that we have it, I am glad we went with this rather than wood. This works better for our lifestyle and the "stone" look brightens up the space.


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    I don't necessarily think that the OP meant this topic to be offensive to anyone. We all have different opinions of what we find visually appealing and what we can or can't live with. Some of the things mentioned as being dated, I have and I just redid my kitchen. For example, I have an OTR. I also have a galley kitchen with a limited amount of counter space. This is a starter home in our area and while it may have been worth 360k a few years ago, we bought it for 1/2 that amount last year and we only plan to stay a few years. To us, it's not a smart financial decision to put a 30k+ ( or +++++ as you may have it) kitchen in it. Although...I don't care for my OTR, it works for this house and this market.

    To me, the kitchens that look timeless are the ones with some thought and creativity put into them. Whether it's a non-convential material choice or a different finish on the cabinets or something that you don't see everyday. It has nothing to do with how much you spend. When we buy our "forever" home, that's what we'll do but for now, we chose things that we like and things that we know people will still like 5 years from now when we sell. I value another person's opinion, because that's who our buyer will be but I still chose what I liked in the end..in fact..I'm debating on going with *gasp* linear glass mosaic tile for the backsplash and low and behold I don't have a super modern kitchen but I do have busy granite! I'll bet the busy granite / busy backsplash haters are cringing as they read this - LOL

    To each his own...be proud of what you've done to your kitchen and don't worry about what people think of as dated. The only thing that matters is that you like it and it's functional for you.


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    From my perspective, "builders grade" is when you make an entire kitchen of choices based on what is the cheapest available option and for no other reason. That's different than saying you're going to choose a cheaper countertop surface to have better floors or whatever, and different than choosing an OTR micro because it works best for your space. If your sole motivation is "how can I do this cheap," then it's builders grade.

    The kitchen in my FL house is a classic example of builders grade.
    prop_image.php

    I don't know WHY these people bothered and I wish they hadn't because I really, really want to rip it out and theres about a 99 percent chance I WILL rip it out either this year or next year and I feel bad b/c they just put it in. Here is why it is builder's grade and it isn't because of the bland colors and partial overlay cabinets:

    1) They didn't even take up the old tile before they put the new tile down. Two tiles have already cracked and had to be replaced
    2) Unfinished ends on cheap cabinets- including unfinished ends that are visible from the dining room
    3) They kept the old white appliances despite the fact that the dishwasher makes white film appear on the dishes and the fridge handle falls off
    4) The OTR microwave is extremely awkward to reach
    5) No layout changes- the dishwasher is directly in front of the door to the kitchen (the one shown in the pic) and anyone coming in would bump right into it and when the fridge is open, the doors practically touch the ill-conceived peninsula and no one is able to get through from the other direction.
    6) They didn't even put cabinet knobs on the cabinets!
    7) not-very-well done granite w/ 3-4 obvious seams

    WHY did they do this? Why not just sell the house w/ the original 1970's kitchen, I don't know! This is what I would consider a mid-priced house on a waterfront lot (on an inlet leading direct to Tampa Bay) in a deed restricted neighborhood of houses from a similar era in various stages of updating.


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    When I think of builders grade or dated I think of builders or homeowners who just throw kitchens together with no thought. Builders to put any granite in just to be able to say the G word in the house ad, or cabinets with no drawers. HOs who won't replace thier rotted counter top, floor, you pick, but have SS appliances.

    I might not have the right definitions but thats what I think of. I guess you could say "money not wisely spent".


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    I think it's a matter of how well the items are put together, the layout of the kitchen, and the quality of materials that label it good vs cheap. Even dated, if done well, will look good.

    Certain things get to be popular "must-haves" like granite and stainless steel, and then you get the large manufacturers trying to give the public what they want at a fraction of the price. Every design trend gets knock-offs and cheap versions that eventually cheapens the public's perception of the "real" thing. Then it's time to move on the the next big must-have.


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    Regarding the OP - things that date a kitchen and things that make a kitchen look builder basic I think are two different things.

    Dating is a matter of style.

    Builder basic, IMO, is a matter of cheaping out and nickel and diming where the builder thinks it won't be noticed. It's the difference between doing a kitchen for yourself and a kitchen for resale or rent. So the comments on drawers, trim, layout, etc., are spot on. Little money for vastly improved function, but builder doesn't care since it's not him living there and those type of upgrades won't increase his profit.


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    five things that date a kitchen

    1. A permanent-waved homemaker in a shirtdress with a full skirt, frilly apron, high heeled pumps, nylons, and pearls. At 10 am.

    2. An icebox with an actual chunk of ice to keep it cold.

    3. Neither gas, propane, nor electric, only wood to power the oven. Wood you split yourself.

    4. Large tin or copper bathtub, so you don't have to carry the heated water to another room.

    5. Ration books.


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    I bet all the GWers who put in granite, white kitchens, stainless, polished nickel and marble countertops didn't know they put in dated materials until this thread. My kitchen reflects what I genuinely like. It's white and has stainless and polished nickel. And it's beautiful. I hope the designers who have kitchens in House Beautiful, etc are all aware these things are already dated and they should stop doing them. Lol! It's things like this that make threads like this funny to me. What some people think of as dated, many think of as classic and will use for a long time because it's beautiful.

    To me, putting thought and personality into a space matters more than whether your cabinets are stained, white, blue or yellow. Your kitchen should reflect you. That's why these threads get ugly because someone (who is no expert) comes in and posts comments about what is or isn't dated. There's a big difference in cheap builders grade and putting no thought into your kitchen and what we do here. There's a reason why we're all on this forum. We all have different budgets and different tastes and personalities. It doesn't mean anyone's kitchen is better than anyone else's. Your kitchen should be right for you.

    Regardless of the OP's intent, these posts always end up seeming very judgy, often because of comments posted within the thread.


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    LOL, Ginny20. Yes, those things definitely DO date a kitchen. Traveling in France I toured a chateau that had remodeled the kitchen a few years before. Until then, they were still cooking meat on a spit over a fire.


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    Simple test for builder grade (most likely dated) :

    Do 3 other neighbors have the same kitchen as you?
    Yes?
    Builder grade!


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    Thanks for reminding me, cawaps, I forgot spit dogs! If you have a dog in a cage running to turn your rotisserie, your kitchen is dated. To the early 19th century, actually.

    When I moved in, our c.1961 kitchen had a wall-mounted chrome hand cranked ice crusher. It was from the heyday of cocktails. I think it should come under the heading of "dated things that we should bring back." Spit dogs, not so much.


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    Ginny20 - LOL!!!


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    And then there is period authenticity in old houses. A nice kind of dated. At least I think so. I especially like it if it makes the kitchen inviting without sacrificing function. But then, I am all about comfort.


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    I think it was said best when the decision-making process was brought up. If every decision is made with budget first and taste second, that is a builder-type decision. If you are choosing granite because it must be granite to meet a criterion, but in turn you choose the granite only because it is cheapest, that is a builder-like decision. I had a potential client who bought a fridge, range, and DW in stainless look for a package deal because she was "supposed to have stainless" not because any one of those appliances is a good appliance --not at $1000 for all three. And she could've afforded better.

    If the decision is made to do one of those things that have made the list (such as the OTR microwave) because of various thoughtful reasons, then it is a context based decision made to fit your project.

    Re: the sensitivity about these topics though: ultimately I think a lot of people are heavily influenced as to what they like. Actually to the extent that many people are told what they like at a given time. They like it because they are told that this is what they are supposed to like. Then they stop liking it because they are told they are supposed to stop liking it. Harvest gold appliances did not spring spontaneously into the consciousness of the American consumer 40 odd years ago, and then spontaneously become a source of ridicule.

    So when people are heavily influenced and essentially told what to like, they get a little edgy when suddenly there is a group of people saying they Don't like it...as if maybe they were listening to the wrong group of people, or got the message late. Now they don't know Who to believe because they certainly don't trust themselves.

    Look at what gets the most props in these forums...not the free thinking projects, but the ones that conform best to the current mode of taste, which is rather ephemeral.


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    Right, Cottonpenny and so many others for whom it's not about their particular kitchen. :) Builder's basic is designing for the greatest common denominator for the least amount, stylish details cheaply executed tacked onto least-possible, and boy don't all the people on this forum know it when we see it.

    You guys who aren't posting pix because your kitchen isn't expensive enough? Come on! If you're happy with your kitchen, this is where you come brag at length without risking boring anybody at all, especially the many looking for ideas that will allow them to do as well. If you did a nice job on less money, the kitchen world really needs to see how. Think of it as a good deed. :)


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    Ginny - don't forget the S&H stamps! :)

    We are building out of pocket so dear old pocketbook will be the boss of us! We're putting most of our dough in the structure itself.

    We live in a very harsh climate in Valdez, Alaska so we want the cold kept out & the heat kept IN! :) We'll be utilizing solar energy as well (down the road).

    I would dearly love soapstone, granite or marble so if I can find any of those for the price of the sort-of-new Formica FX 360...I'm game!

    I have a neighbor who just put FX 360 in her kitchen and she loves it & so do I.

    I've seen so many kitchens on here that are so beautiful but they were able to keep the budget down. That's what I want to try.

    I will want the soft-close drawers. Drawers in the base. Shop sales.

    The things that I will absolutely love in my new kitchen are my raised dishwasher & wall oven (back problems). I'm already living with the French-door fridge which I really enjoy.


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    I just remodeled my kitchen myself (painted the oak cabinets, upgraded to SS, and put in granite and a backsplash). I feel like my kitchen is up to date but after reading this, mine would be considered dated. Luckily for me, this is only someone�s opinion! I will say that I do agree with some of the things mentioned BUT, BUT, BUT you must take into consideration the overall home value & neighborhood/location. It�s easy to go and say, "oh you have an OTR microwave, that�s old school.." BUT what are we comparing here? I don�t think it�s apples to apples. My house sits a cookie cutter neighborhood�. Compared to houses in the same area, with the same square footage and price, my kitchen is considered updated.

    I assume who ever started this post has a very nice kitchen and fancy home (congrats!). Let�s compare your kitchen to other fancy homes in expensive neighborhoods. Do you have a Viking or Wolf range? Do you have heated wooden floors in your kitchen? Do your cabinets close by themselves, even when no one�s looking? Is your refrigerator three times the size of a normal/basic/cheap one? If you answered yes to any of these, then CONGRATS again!


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    Ginny20, you cracked me up!

    Reminded me of the story my mother told of when my dad brought her to their new home for the first time, shortly after they were married. A real farm house.

    She walks in and there's the wood burning stove/oven combo. She said, what's this big plywood counter in the middle of the room...Dad lifted the plywood to show her the bathtub!

    She said, if the bath tub is in the kitchen, where is the toilet? He took her by the hand outside and said, do you see that well worn path????

    Not sure what grade you'd call that one!


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    I think what would be more interesting would be to see pictures of kitchens that are 10 or more years old that do not look dated. And then see what is the common denominator.


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    O. M. G. I wasn't even going to respond. I knew this was going to be an ugly thread.

    But since I JUST built a house, I can tell you what "builder grade" is.

    Stock cabinets, the "norm" is now 36" tall. No trim. Pick from about 8 door styles, and 5 finishes.

    A 5" deep stainless double bowl sink

    A plastic faucet that looks like chrome.

    A choice of about 15 different knobs.

    Vinyl floor in the kitchen area, even if you have open concept, there will be a transitional piece so no one notices. ; )

    And an allowance of $900 for ALL of your appliances.

    And a light over the sink, and one in the middle of the room.

    That my friends-who-I have-never-met is what MY builder considered standard. I'm not passing judgement, just laying it on the line.


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    I forgot, Laminate counters are basic too.

    And no way in Central PA are white cabinets on their way out, nor marble. I am looked at as if I have 3 eyes when I said I wanted white, and holy moley, the local stone place had to order in marble because...."someone wanted to do their kitchen in it. So we had to order 3 slabs".....yikes


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    Mine is already dated and it's not even done LOL. We put in brick instead of taking out brick. I don't have drawers in all of my off- white cabinets. I would not use them. Honestly, I have 5 more cabinets than I need. And I'll end up with 4 extra drawers I think unless I give my forks their own drawer as well as spoons and butter knives. I could easily have put a ton of drawers in, spent the extra money, and not used those extra drawers too. I have no granite, but instead wood that was milled off of our property, my island is a mix of our tree and my in-law's. My perimeters are our wood too. Floors, yep, they came from here. $1.10 a board foot for all of it. My range is the only big name in the kitchen, GE and Whirlpool are the others. My cabinets don't go to the ceiling. But I take no offense to anyone's opinions. We live in an area where builder grade hasn't even hit 60% of the homes yet. All the houses I have been to in my town still have either original kitchens, metal cabinets, or something slightly newer from the 60's or so. Wood cookstoves are still popular, if you have modern appliances, you use them until they die. Not because people can't afford them, but think if it's not broke, don't fix it. Why spend money when you can save it? I suppose it's a regional, and somewhat old-fashion way of thinking. I don't think it makes us wrong, but I don't think it makes someone who spends tens of thousands on a kitchen wrong either. Do what you can afford. Do what makes you happy.


     o
    Designed 2001, not executed.

    Photobucket


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    I wouldn't date a kitchen; I prefer boys.


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic


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    1989 kitchen

    Photobucket


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    In my first house I lived for 13 years in a broken down, no DW, brown fridge, no counters to speak of, kitchen. Finally I had the money to redo and we had white clad slab cabinets, white appliances, terra cotta tile floor, grey corian, some drawers, and a huge peninsula. I loved that kitchen. I would be happy if I could have moved it to this house and I would still love it. We went back to the house a few weeks later to pick up a plate that was left behind. My counters were in the yard, the cabs in the basement and a maple and granite counter kitchen was installed. It was beautiful and 2 years later, with some paint and decorating, the house was flipped for $200,000 more than we received. 17 years later, I think their new kitchen is still in style, but I still love my old one.


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    palimpsest, that was very well put. I think that's why so many of us here try to encourage people to get inspiration photos or books and really try to discover what they truly like. It's important to have a reason to do something whether it's for function or simply because it makes you feel good when you walk in the room.

    I found it amusing when we started our build and the appliances were brought up. The first thing my builder brought up was certain packages that were usually good deals. And he builds custom homes for mid-range to high-end incomes. He said many end up with a package. I'm guessing those people weren't on this forum! I think I was the first person that put in refrigerator drawers. And I was one of only a few to do the microwave drawer. I think, regardless of budget, there's a level of thoughtfulness that can be put into your appliances and the combination of those appliances (brands, etc) that doesn't have to be builder grade. It's one thing to really research and go with a package, keeping budget in mind and find one that really works for you in terms of function and budget. Many go with a package without even researching because it's easy and their builder says other people do it. They don't think about each appliance functioning differently and the brand they choose. Then later, they're disappointed with the cooking results or performance. The same could be said for the layout or finishes.

    No, not all GWers are all perfect or rich. And everyone here doesn't have all high-end or do everything perfectly either. And everyone wants something different from their final result...some want a calm cozy kitchen while others want a bright, energetic one. Some want light and airy while others want warm and inviting and some want a combination of both. But at least the thought is put in so that options are investigated, feedback is given...the care is put in so that the kitchen each GWer pictures in her/his head is what she/he ends up with in the end.


     o
    1992 kitchen

    Except the post-modernist curve gives it away:
    Photobucket


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    Photobucket


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    Gee, I didn't know my kitchen would be dated 6 months after I had a raised bar installed. Maybe I should remove it and put it in my wine cellar in the basement.

    DSCF0413


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    melaska - S&H green stamps should go on the "things to bring back" list. I loved those. I spent a lot of time gluing stamps in the books for my DM. She still has things that she got with green stamps.

    I agree with donaleen about period authenticity. As I said in a thread months ago, just because something is dated or out of style, doesn't mean it isn't still aesthetically pleasing. Look at classic cars and vintage clothes. I have a fondness for 19th century American Tonalist paintings. They're definitely dated, but still undeniably beautiful.

    My old kitchen was definitely dated. Pink speckled formica counters with full matching backsplash and chrome trim. I didn't mind it. I thought it was kind of pretty.

    The biggest improvements I made in the kitchen weren't aesthetic, although it does look very different; they were functional. In addition to newer ideas that improved functionality, I duplicated a lot of the best features of my dated kitchen. Many of these were things that people don't often do today, like lap board pull-outs and a bread drawer. Two other things that should be on the list of things we need to bring back.


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    AnnieDeinaugh - LOL! Your poor mother, what a shock. I think I'd call that homesteader grade.


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    I think we've all been watching too much HGTV! Have you noticed? Every appliance that is not stainless steel is "dated" Any floor that is not hard wood has "got to go". I laugh because my parents house which was built in 1950 has all hardwood floors that I only remember seeing once or twice when the carpet installers were putting in the wall-to-wall. Hard wood was "out", wall-to wall carpet was "in". The fact is the more popular something is today the more common and dated it will seem a few years from now.
    But please notice who is advertising on those shows. What better way to sell your product than by creating a demand for it.
    The best way to be happy with your kitchen is to make sure you are getting what YOU love. Not what you think your supposed to have. And that includes keeping within your budget. You will not be happy if you are losing sleep because you know you spent way too much for that pricey granite.
    While it is helpful to hear about what others have done that they love, or what they are sorry they did and why, blanket statements about low-end and dated looking choices are not. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Your backsplash could be my trip to Disney with my grandchildren.


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    dated = any kitchen without induction. + anything else is possible as a date marker.

    If I had to pick 5 things that make it builder grade I would start with these four: face front framed, only a few drawers, single light source, very little trim, and then pick one of these: dorky work triangles, zones that make no sense, unworkable bar overhangs, cheap showy faucet, oven with exposed coils, cheap floor material, overmount sink, noisy dishwasher.

    Hth


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    Oh no, my kitchen is out of date before it's even remodeled. Are framed cabinets a big no-no?


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    Highjack,Kalapointer that glass counter is so cool!


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    I think fishing for compliments is builder's grade.


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    LOL deedles! I actually had to look twice at that picture. It kind of looked like Jessica Biel for a second!


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    "And an allowance of $900 for ALL of your appliances. "

    even I'm wise to that one! I paid about 800.00 for my 18 cf fridge about 14 yrs ago. It was about the cheapest fair sized one I could find. didn't need a really big one for 1 person. and it's still going strong. But I've priced 'em in case mine decides to die... oh dear.

    I'm on that original list w/my almond/bisque appliances. I don't like white, black or SS. I found my bisque dw and stove on CL and snatched 'em up quicker'n a whistle. Lucky for me a woman down the road was updating her kitchen to SS. So could be some of those things are by choice.

    Duck wallpaper trim might date a kitchen tho - lol!

    then again, if you like ducks, maybe not.


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    Hey deedles, I think this is the real thing.


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    You walked in
    To my Pantry
    Like you were walkin' on to a yacht


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    I agree with Davidro1's choices. Plus the type of granite that the OP is referring too.

    No offence was meant by the OP (as s/he stated), it is a fair discussion to have I think, despite the fact that I disagree with most of her/his points: I think OTR microwave's do have a place in some kitchens, as do raised bars. As for black/white/cream appliances - it depends entirely on the appliance and the kitchen it is in. Some kitchens should have black or white appliances I think (i.e. that is the best fit.)


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    You were lookin' for the peach jam
    but you settled for apricot


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    You had one eye on my backsplash as you took a cheap potshot
    And all the girls said that theirs wasn't dated
    Theirs wasn't dated, and...


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    Eek. I thought that was Bette Midler with a smaller head for a sec...

    Hey, she's got dream catchers all over the place!


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    I think it's a frame from a video, hence the mid-teeth-grit pose.

    You're so vain, you probably think this post is about you
    You're so vain, I'll bet you think this post is about you
    Don't you? Don't You?


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    You had subways several years ago when others were still naive
    Well you said OTK was such a pretty look
    That the trend would never leave
    But Peacock sold away all the things you love and one of them was marble
    I had some dreams there were stains in my marble
    Stains in my marble and...


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    I hung some shears and my ceiling is coffered, my ceiling is coffered....


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    Talk about dated. This is reminding me of high school.


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    And I start to hate the things I loved
    and one of them was the
    Colonial Dream
    that I chose for my counters
    chose for my counters and...


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    Well I bought my cabs from Conestoga, the best source under the sun


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    I knew their new slides are updgraded to Blu-Motion


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    ROFL.... ahhhahahahaha...


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    One bump with your hips, and you're done!


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    You're so vain, you probably think this comment's about you
    You're so vain, I'll bet you think this comment's about you
    Don't you? Don't You?


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    "dated = any kitchen without induction."

    Well, I guess the kitchen I am planning is going to be dated before it's even done, because we would like a gas cooktop. So, I'll quote another poster:

    "If the decision is made to do one of those things that have made the list (such as the OTR microwave) because of various thoughtful reasons, then it is a context based decision made to fit your project."

    If there's only one thing I've learned from my lurking here on GW, it's to put a lot of thought into my new kitchen. Our thought: we want a gas cooktop because we tend to lose power every so often. It would be nice to be able to cook on the cooktop then. Now, we do have a generator we use for the fridge when the power goes out, and we unplug that and plug in the microwave if we want a meal. Then again, any excuse to go out to eat, right? ;)


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    Distressed cabs really hide the grime,
    and marble doesn't etch, its a myth


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    Your big reveal is the start of a new trend,
    Start of a new trend, and...


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    Your big reveal is the start of a new trend,
    Start of a new trend, and...


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    I've never given a moment's thought to whether my kitchen looks dated. I think about whether it functions well and whether it is beautiful. Both those things are personal to me.

    I am sure not thinking about appealing to the masses or to resale value. Style (in that sense) is so temporary.

    Over time what I like best and what I think functions best has changed some. On the other hand, I have a lot of things that I've had for thirty years and still love.



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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    melaska! I've been to Valdez, Alaska. My husband was near there in Moose Pass getting his float plane rating. What a beautiful area. We stayed in some cabins that the lady that rented them built herself!! Talk about grizzly mama, lol. I wonder what she has in her kitchen! I was freezing BTW and it was summer. I'm a wimp..but I don't blame you for putting your "dough" in the structure and insulation! Good luck : )


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    Well I hear you put up travertine and stuck a rooster on your walls
    Then you drove your car up to M. Teixera
    To check out their installs
    Well you do what you should do all the time
    And when you do you think
    They said it's classic but what if it's dated
    What if it's dated, and...


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    Photobucket


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    circuspeanut -I just noticed your comment - LOL! I always preferred dating boys, too. I didn't really care whether they were black, white, or bisque, and I actually preferred them a little old-fashioned.


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    LOL! I always preferred dating boys, too. I didn't really care whether they were black, white, or bisque, and I actually preferred them a little old-fashioned.

    But, I gather, not completely stainless! ;-)


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic


    But, I gather, not completely stainless! ;-)

    I hear the new hot trend in boys is Fifty Shades of Grey...


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    And "builder grade" doesn't sound so bad in this context....


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    You're right, Angie. I was in college in the 70's. Fortunately, stainless wasn't in style then.


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    Boy this thread took a turn I didn't expect! Very funny and poetic everyone.

    I remember when we were designing our home and talking to real estate agents, they all said we needed 3 things: granite counters, ss appliances, and hardwood floors. We have none of those.

    And talk about dated....I spent a day helping GF clean out her mother's house....Mom is in her 80s and not capable of dealing with all the stuff, including what's still left in Mom's mother's apartment (Granny passed at least 35 years ago) which is also on site. I walked into Granny's apartment, straight and untouched from the 60s like a time warp. What's the first thing I see? Stainless wall ovens, cook top and sink! There's dated, and then there's dated, and then there's so dated that we now call it MCM and it's back in style!!!

    Oh, I bought you several years ago, when I was still quite naive...
    When you said avocado was a pretty shade
    Another I'd never conceive...
    But I grew to hate that shade of green
    And stainless came my way
    I had some dreams of an induction cooktop....induction cooktop....


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    I need to get the Carly Simon channel on Pandora Radio.


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    Talk about dated - if we all know the lyrics to a song from, yes, the early 70's, so well that we are laughing at these allusions, and you all can parody it (cleverly, I might add) off the top of your heads, well, then I'd say we're all dating ourselves.

    Although it does demonstrate what I was saying about how some things are just classics.


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    I hope my countertop GI Joe, circa 1964, doesn't date my new kitchen....he is TOO young for me to date!!

    Nancy


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    Oh, my 18 year old knows the song... she says it plays on the "oldies channel" where she works.

    Oldies channel. HA.


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    This is kitchen message board for The Kitchen Obsessed. OP wants a current, expensive looking kitchen (or wants to talk about what makes a kitchen look current or expensive). What would be a inoffensive way to explore what would help achieve that look?

    I know that I am walking the fine line between avoiding expensive-looking while not being dated. I am doing a remodel in a high-end neighborhood and I don't want it to look impressive or expensive but because I have so much exposure and interest in design I am sensitive to what is "dated" not because I care what others think but because I am so "over it." Also, I adore what I perceive as timeless design. Palimpset's first pic of the white kitchen is both what I consider timeless and the sort of kitchen I find pleasing. It would fit right in on my Pinterest kitchen board. I have some training and eye for design and I know some of my loves are "dated" but I still love them and consider them good design. Even if I don't want it or like it I like to think that I can still pick out what is "right now" and what is "dated."

    I wish there was a way to acknowledge what is on-trend and expensive-looking without offending people who choose and love (or feel stuck with) things that are possibly dated and less expensive looking. Maybe there just isn't a way to do that...

    I think it would be fun to start a conversation in the positive (I do not know how to set that thought in a grammatically correct way) and ask:

    What elements make a kitchen look expensive and "right-now"?
    I think that would be FUN! It is still subjective, of course, I don't agree with some of the things stated on this thread :)

    I just came back to this board because I am remodeling again, but maybe this has been done already?

    Some of the things I (maybe incorrectly) think make a kitchen look expensive and current are:

    -large kitchens that generally don't need or try to be efficient or ergonomic (this hasn't changed much in the last 30 years, it seems...)
    -muted and/or somber colors like dove gray, soft eggplant, taupe, chocolate etc.
    -cabinetry with glass uppers, open shelves
    -both clean lines and detail in cabinetry
    -clean, simple lighting fixtures with shades in both muted light and dark colors.
    -both squared and drum-shaped shades
    -shiny and sparkly light fixtures; the sparkly ones are less ornate than those you find in a French Country kitchen, the shiny a departure from the heavy, matte, dark lighting fixtures in Old-World or Tuscan kitchens.
    -industrial lighting fixtures
    -lots of detail but less "stuff" than the French Country or Old-World kitchens
    -velvet and linen with subtle or no print, leather
    -quiet counters
    -hand-made tiles that are less "rough" and "rustic" than the hand-made tiles of a few years ago
    -more glamour and less "cozy hearth" but retaining some rustic elements
    -more of a Belgian, Scandinavian influence than the southern European influence of a few years ago
    -more of a city feel than a country feel...more Paris than Provence...

    That is my perspective on what looks expensive and current.

    These pics aren't perfect, but they do show some of the elements I described.
    They are not my ideal kitchens nor do they reflect my aesthetic necessarily.

    I specifically picked the second pic to show what I mean by detail on the cabinets and range hood. It is more austere but not plain. It still looks custom and expensive while being somewhat restrained.

    Apparently I see the current kitchen trends as a reaction to the French Country, Old World and farmhouse kitchens, many of which I love...maybe some of the simplicity of farmhouse but with more glamour, some of the detail and a touch of the rustic from Old-World and French Country but more restrained. Where the Old-World kitchens imply simple, home-cooked food (regardless of reality) these new kitchens seem to imply caterers much more :) I don't think the layouts have changed much at all. I, personally, think farmhouse kitchens are still current but I may be biased because I adore the style.

    *I put sleek, modern kitchens in a different category. I think they can always be expensive-looking, current choices, though I think they may more popular right now because they are so different from the...yes, Old-World and French Country kitchens.


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    Well, I heard you put up a glass backsplash,
    and thought you were halfway done;
    then you took a look in the morning light,
    and decided it's not THE ONE...

    So you took it down and tossed it out,
    and then you started new,
    cause GW said that it's way too dated...
    it's way too dated...

    (shannonaz, do you really expect us to get back on topic?) :)


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    Im gonna go eat worms. Big fat juicy ones, little tiny squirmy ones, I'm gonna go eat worms.

    I still love this forum!


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    Oh, my 18 year old knows the song... she says it plays on the "oldies channel" where she works.

    Oldies channel. HA.


     o
    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    Oldies! In my book, oldies are songs that you only remember hearing for the first time as oldies...the rest are still "contemporary".

    Reminds me of the time (and this was way too many years ago...I think Katie Couric was still on) on the Today show when the Stones were doing another concert tour and they asked some young folk if they knew who the Stones were and if they would go to the concert....One young fellow responded, "Yeah, geezer rock is ok."

    Geezer rock!!!!

    Geezer rock!!!

    Well! I never!!!!

    And I had the pleasure a few weeks back to go to a Crosby Still & Nash concert...yeah, they're all on Soc Sec, but they can still rock it out and their extraordinary talent is even more apparent to me today....(though the high notes are a struggle).


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    Yes, deedles, I'm afraid we're oldies. I am, anyway. Pity 'tis, 'tis true.

    Forget styles in kitchens, I'd rather talk about styles in boys. I never get to talk about boys anymore. Men, yes, but that's not the same thing at all.

    So you say they come in Fifty Shades of Gray?


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    Um, awkward.


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    I'm sorry, shannonaz, you're right. I'll talk about kitchens.

    My cabs are stained cherry, raised panel, partial overlay, face framed. I chose them because I like them. They probably look dated - I prefer to think of them as classic, graceful, and understated - but anyone who knows anything about cabinetmaking would know they are good quality. So maybe quality and datedness should be separate discussions. And, when we're talking about quality, I think function matters more than the aesthetics.

    Speaking of function, I'd like to add french door wall ovens to my list of old-fashioned things we should bring back.


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    I was going to post something on-topic but changed my mind. Had to say, Annie, I went to see CSN in concert when I was in high school (in the 1989 range) and I thought they were geezers then! :-) I am surprised to hear they are still touring must admit I'd love to hear them at any age.


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    Talk about dated - if we all know the lyrics to a song from, yes, the early 70's, so well that we are laughing at these allusions, and you all can parody it (cleverly, I might add) off the top of your heads, well, then I'd say we're all dating ourselves.

    Speak for yourself Ginny20, I for one wasn't born in the 70's and had to look up the lyrics and listen to the song on YouTube to remember the beat, LOL! ;)

    So you say they come in Fifty Shades of Gray?
    On just about every page.


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    Ginny20 nailed it about 50 posts ago.

    Maybe Builders Grade is just an industry conspiracy to goad us into all wanting to remodel.

    Maybe outdated (vs retro) is just someone's attempt to sell a product or a look.

    I'm loving this thread. Carly Simon would be flattered.


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    I just realized how that sounded. That's not what I meant! (I'm blushing) I'm not clever enough for that double entendre. I meant like paint chips.


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    Beaglesdoitbetter- I was going to quote that and laugh, but decided against it. That is hilarious though.


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    In truth, I haven't read that particular trilogy. When I was young, I did read The Story of O (we all read it). I was told that Fifty Shades makes O look like great literature. Any opinions?

    (Since you're not going to talk about boys. Or kitchens.)


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    gra8day...you'd freeze this summer since we're having a very cool & wet summer. After the awful winter, you'd think we'd get a break? *sigh*

    But, Valdez on a sunny day is so marvelous - almost makes one forget that winter is just 'round the corner.


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    I did actually have a serious comment...until I came to palimpsest's first lyrical post.

    When I saw the thread title I thought it must be about an article that someone had read and wanted to share. I was a little surprised by the topic, but even though my kitchen has at least one thing from each of the first few lists, I wasn't offended. I felt that the OP was looking for a discussion, not calling anyone out, not being judgmental.

    So, rtwilliams, don't eat worms. :) This has been a fun thread, maybe not what you expected, but it's nice to kick back once in awhile. Hollysprings, thanks for the kind words about my kitchen, which is dated--it must be, as it has elements from at least three different decades.

    Oh, and Fifty Shades of Gray...not going there.


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    I just realized the time here in EDT. Gotta go. Talk amongst yourselves. Good night!


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    Oh my gosh, you guys are too funny!

    I've been a long time lurker and in the process of finalizing our kitchen reno. Can't wait to get started on my dated kitchen!

    On a serious note, I want to thank you all for the great tips, ideas and pics that you post. They have helped me tremendously!


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    What a fun thread! And no offense rtwiiliams- I have 3 components you listed and would change two for sure had I had known better:) I went with the norm of my area which meant cabs that end before the ceiling(too hard in earthquake zone of 1950's houses to get an even ceiling I recently learned and my GC didn't see the point of trying silly man), micro hoods since we rarely close any doors around here year round( everyone has them to save space in our smaller homes around here)and even though a few neighbors did counter height and removed the bar top in recent remodels and I love the look, I hate people in my cooking space and wanted the separation. I also wanted the two additional outlets in my prep space. See function trumps aesthetics in my book any day and it should for all the cooks out there! JMHO :)

    I definitely think this song is about me, don't you
    Gotta love online Karakoe!


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    gra8day...you'd freeze this summer since we're having a very cool & wet summer. After the awful winter, you'd think we'd get a break? *sigh*

    But, Valdez on a sunny day is so marvelous - almost makes one forget that winter is just 'round the corner.


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    What about dating a builder?


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    Ginny20, was 'Bewitched' filmed in your kitchen? Talk about the hey-day of cocktails!

    Stainless in the 70s was only in restaurant kitchens. Crazy!

    Something to keep in mind is all the people who post and ask "is it all right" or "Can I put these two together" or just plain posts asking permission. I've always felt that silly, and I realize they're just asking for confirmation from others (rather than themselves) that they're investing wisely. How many of them are now feeling betrayed (beating chest) that they've been mislead because they've put in the "d" word kitchen..DATED! O.M.G.

    Beagles, my jaw dropped.
    And as faro dating a builder? Getting rid of STBX GC? I would rather date a lawyer again. And here in DC, that's bottom fishing. They're only top echelon dating material in their very own pool, where they ego each other on.

    My very first concert in 1976 was Pure Prairie League (I think with Vince Gill), and the headliner was Heart. At the Jackson (MI) Raceway. I also think it was one of the first, all-day, burn your butt off, drink too much, sweat like a pig mega-concerts that are the norm now.

    My kitchen doesn't fit into any of these categories, although I know all the songs by heart. (Hmmm) I still think it was rather insensitive, but perhaps had the title been different, it wouldn't have appeared so.


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    CEFreeman - I wish I had Sam's kitchen - she had a Frigidaire Flair!

    The first concert I remember was Jethro Tull. I think it might have been Aqualung. Does anyone play flute in hard rock bands any more?


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    I think my first concert was Ricky Nelson at the Santa Clara County Fair. However, the one I brag about was the Beatles at Candlestick Park (1966), their last concert together.


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    And this comes from too long ago...a Mom overheard her girls talking about Paul McCartney and Wings, and one girl said, "Did you know Paul used to be with another group?"


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    Lurking and loving it! It just gets better. I remember that, Annie. The 'other band' too!


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    First concert: Santana. 1974. Age 13. Went because DB date dumped him and he had no one to go with.


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    Ginny20 - my mom was always a Jethro Tull fan, and in the last 5 years or so went to a concert at the Montreux festival in Switzerland. She said they were fantastic - no snots running down their noses, greasy fingers smearing shabby clothes....

    She got me some Jethro Tull's Christmas CD one year, that it took me quite a while to listen too, being mainly familiar with the song Aqualung ("Sitting on a park bench/Eyeing little girls with bad intent"). But the Christmas CD is great!


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    Ginny20-The sax player in the Dave Matthews Band plays flute from time to time . . .

    You guys are YOUNG (Beagles); first concert was sometime in the late sixties-Peter, Paul and Mary in Philadelphia.

    Linelle-I'm totally jealous of your Beatles concert. DH and I were just talking the other day about artists we didn't get to see-Joni Mitchell was on both our lists. He saw Fleetwood Mac and I wish I had, but growing up close to Philadelphia and then SF let me see tons of bands.

    Sorry to be so off topic . . .


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    Ian Anderson was still the oversized toad/faun/imp leaping about the stage quite athletically when I saw Tull in concert at Wolf Trap in 2008.

    And the Marshall Tucker Band also had a flute player with them in my first concert to go to without adult supervision in mmmmmm70mmmsomething.

    How about violins in rock bands? I've seen Kansas in concert 5x, with the last time being front row center. Always a great show, and it adds a cool dimension to the sound. "All kitchens are just dust in the wind....."

    On topic.

    A certain sign of builders grade kitchen is a pitiful recirculating range hood/OTR in new build or an actual home. Apartments and condos don't count here, as they are built on a massive scale to builder's grade standards without thinking at all about ventilation or a host of other neglected functional aspects. Who plans a SFH without proper ventilation? About 80% of new builds around here do, and it's sad because it really isn't that difficult or expensive to do when you're building. (They've also been known to terminate bath fans in the attic, which is a total code violation that they seldom get called on it seems.)


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    Peter, Paul, and Mary at the Hollywood Bowl around 1969, last row in the bowl, furthest from the stage. They were great. We had tickets to see them at Lawrence Welk (?!!!) a couple of years ago, but Mary got sick and the concert was cancelled. Bummers.

    My 30-something son told us that he and his friends were mutually embarrassed when they discovered they all knew the words to all the Carpenters songs. What we sang to our kids in their cradles, and sing-alongs in the car! And then there's my then 3 (now 4) year old grandson who wanted me to play Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds on the car radio. He didn't understand why I didn't have that on tap - Daddy does.


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    1965 - Stones at the San Jose Civic Auditorium. Opening act = the Byrds.
    1966 - Dylan (SJ Civic)


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    Don't remember the year, but it was Seals & Crofts who were on with Anne Murray and Jonathan Edwards...remember him?

    And whose songs do you first remember from your parents' music. I remember my bro and I dancing around as young 'uns to the Andrew Sisters....


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    My kids couldn't understand why I knew the words to some of "their" songs. It's because they were either remixes of "my" songs or re-releases of songs from my era. Monkees or Neil Diamond or .... They were shocked, incredulous, dismayed to learn that some of their songs were originally mine.

    First concert Chicago, best concert Elton John. I originally thought that Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds was Lucy in Disguise with Diamonds.


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    GreenDesigns-
    Again-Dave Matthews Band has a kick-a$$ violin player. And a guy who plays trumpet. All part of the regular band. Yeah we're old but still groupies.

    I remember when Chicago first became popular and it was so novel to see horns in a rock band.


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    Always sorry I didn't see Genesis with Peter Gabriel and also Queen. Did see Pink Floyd "Animals" at the old Brewer Stadium in Milwaukee...1978-ish. Probably the best concert I ever attended although Supertramp was pretty close.
    Large pink pig exploded right over our heads and concert promoter guy made a PSA about staying away from the bad blotter acid with an eyeball on it.
    Can you imagine?
    (no, I wasn't one of the many in the crowd dismayed at that announcement)


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    Yes, Annie, re Paul. These days it's "Why's there an old guy in the olympic ceremony, did he used to be somebody?"

    On the other hand, some kids are totally into old music via the internet. I have nieces and nephews that only listen to stuff from 25-50 years ago.


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    Beatles concert at the Indiana State Fair - 1964. I was just beside myself with frenzy :) I had every Beatle gum card - sure wish I knew where the cards are, now.

    Herman's Hermits
    Neil Diamond (I saw him at the airport, too.)


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    Carole King was my favorite. I worshipped her--secretly still do.

    And I did see Joni Mitchell in St. Louis in the early 80s at a small venue in St. Louis. She was fabulous and tiny.

    I fell in love with my first love dancing to Colour My World by Chicago. Still love them.

    About this thread. Some version of it pops up about once or twice a year and it always turns ugly and offensive. How could it not?


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    Oh, the YSV lyrics crack me up, and come to think of it, lots do Carly's songs could work.....

    Older Sister

    She flies through her white kitchen, she's an OTK sister,
    She throws French toile around the room
    She's got marble and polished nickel too
    She's wicked to all the tile dealers who'll later
    Boast of doing her whole backsplash...
    Oh but to be, I'd like to be....an OTK sister....

    Sandyponder


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    melaska - I do know what happened to my Beatles gum cards! In a fit of pure 13 year old charity, I donated them to an orphanage for Christmas. It was a wrench to let them go as they were still all the thing and I treasured them, but I figured some kid would never have any if someone like me didn't share. I didn't even remember there was such a thing until you mentioned it.


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    1st concert, Peter, Paul, and Mary. Small venue, very personal. A lifetime ago.


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    Staring at my marble just to pass the time
    There's something wrong here, there can be no denying
    One of us is changing
    Or maybe it just stopped shining

    And it's too late, baby, now it's too late
    Though I really did try to seal it
    That poor wretch has etched
    And you can see it and you can feel it

    It used to be so easy living here with you
    You were light and veiny and I thought you looked so cool
    Now you look all splotchy and I feel like a fool

    And it's too late, marble, now it's too late
    Though I really did try to seal you
    You're all scratched and etched
    And I can see it and I can feel you

    There'll be good times again for me and you
    But we just can't stay together, don't you feel it, too
    Still I'm glad for what we had and how I once loved you

    And it's too late, baby, now it's too late
    Though we really did try to make it
    Something inside has died
    And I can't hide and I just can't fake it.


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    Good one Marcolo!


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    A guy I knew in high school - a normal, honor roll, good kid - said he went to Woodstock with his older brother. I'm pretty sure he was telling the truth. Woodstock was 1969, so this guy had to have been about 14. My DS is now 14. I have to ask myself two(rhetorical)questions: how cool is it that he was at Woodstock, and what were his parents thinking?

    Although melaska and linelle seeing the Beatles, that may beat out even Woodstock! And less muddy.

    Oh, and DS explained to me that Jethro Tull isn't "hard rock" it's "classic rock." I explained to her that they weren't "classic" yet when I saw them. Reminded me of the line from the hilarious song "1985," "When did Moltey Crue become classic rock?" which segue allows me to go sort of back on topic.

    Debby just hit the wall
    She never had it all
    She wanted stainless steel
    Just couldn't make the deal
    She wanted Shaker doors
    And Brazilian cherry floors
    1200 cfm fan
    What happened to her plan?
    She was gonna get some marble,
    Backsplash of subway tile,
    She was gonna put in drawers,
    Pull outs with lots of style.
    Her UCL LED
    Is just a fantasy
    She looks at her fluorescent lights
    And nothing is all right
    It's still
    Coil stove, tile counters
    and over-the-range Microwave,
    Oak cabinets, partial overlay
    And double sink with separate spray.
    The kitchen design rules,
    They tell her that she's uncool,
    Cause her kitchen still looks like...
    1985.


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    Oh Marcolo,, you just stole my heart.


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    Ginny, ROTFL! Better than the 1,985 other "1985" parody songs.


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    It used to be so easy living here with you,
    you became old and sleazy,
    but I knew just what to do--
    grab a paintbrush and make you new.
    Now there's something wrong here,
    one of us is changing,
    soapstone, Ann Sachs, Poggenpohl,
    and I just can't fake it.
    It used to be so easy living here with you.


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    My backsplash is ruined from the start
    All the sweet tiles have lost their spark
    Someone used off-white grout, and it stained
    And I don't think I can fix it,
    'Cause it took so long to mix it
    And I'll never have that recipe again, oh no


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    RE: Five things that date a kitchen or make it look builder basic

    Thanks, marcolo, you're sweet. Even if you don't like squirrels.

    I find these parodies so amusing I tried to share them with my DD (sorry, I mistyped before, not a DS). She asked me if none of us have anything better to do. Uh....no!


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