OK, I just didnt want you to feel overwhelmed, but you can file this to think about later.

I see that the powder room entrance is not in the mudroom. That may be higher priority to keep it accessible right where it is and to be able to come through the main part of the mudroom to drop stuff. If so, there may still be a good arrangement to achieve both.

I was just trying to figure out if it would be possible to flip the gear room and that walk-through closet (?) from the garage, and be flexible about placement of the powder room and mudroom counter/sink in order to make an adequate passageway, to give you a straight shot into the kitchen from the garage. As far as I can tell, that's not dealing with exterior walls at all, and clearance/aisle width should not be affected.

I canÂt read dimensions , but if itÂs as wide as it looks I can see a couple of ways to arrange it. I assume you donÂt have plumbing yet.

However, before I even try that, perhaps we should hold off to see if you will indeed be starting from scratch. Your LO may look completely different after tomorrow! ItÂs great that you have the space and still the flexibility to get it right. Even though the foundation is poured, it doesnÂt have to be completely just backward from the other houses. Rather, I think you will end up with a completely functional, completely beautiful space that is all your own!

I think the foundation is in for everything....I am not positive. I want to call and ask my builder these questions, but I feel like I'm driving him crazy- I called him yesterday to ask about the kitchen window, and he said he'd work on it and e-mail me last night. He didn't. So I've e-mailed him twice today and haven't heard from him. My mom told me I was suffocating him- LOL- but I just want answers!! I'm sure he's thinking "thank God I'm not married to this woman!" I don't know what's normal though...for those of you who built a house, did you call your builder every time you had a question or were you a bit more patient?

jsweenc- we used to have the "gear room" and hallway reversed- just like you are talking about. It was a straight shot into the kitchen. BUT, I was concerned about the kids actually using the mudroom and putting their things/shoes/hats, etc away, and they will each have a locker in the mudroom (on the wall with the windows). We switched it like this so that however they come in, they will pass by their wall locker to put things away and take off their shoes. Of course, I was not thinking about bringing in the groceries!! Is it really going to be that bad?

LOL! I don't know for you... for me it was that bad! It's such a better arrangement now, I'm just thankful every day for it.

I'll go ahead and try to explain the arrangement I have in my head, but I realize it just may not work -- Im better at vision than process -- so don't feel bad about saying so. Hopefully these things are still flexible.

What exactly is that opposite the closet walkway?

Powder room: If it is indeed square as it looks to me, this should work space-wise. To keep the entrance coming from the passageway, flip it 180 degrees so the plumbing is on the opposite wall, rotate it 90 deg. clockwise so the door is on the left, and move it to share a wall with the stairwell.

Mudroom: See on your drawing, if you walked straight from the kitchen toward the powder room without turning the wall youd run into? Put the door to the mudroom there or slightly to the right if you have to have the closets there. Or flip that closet area also, so the closets are on the right and the counter is on the left.

As you go into the closet room, put the cubbies to the right of the doorway, right where you have the counter/sink right now. Push the counter to the right into the corner. I think that this will have them passing by their cubbies either way they come in... they'd have a very slight detour coming in from the garage. I have that, and it works just fine... well, it would if I can begin to break old habits.

Theres my thought, FWIW. : )

Jsweenc,

I've tried 3 times to understand all of that, but you lost me at flip and rotate. (it doesn't help that my 3 year old is climbing all over me) I am really interested though....Any way you can draw that somehow? If not, no worries- I'll try again later to figure it out. Thanks for your help!
Oh, and the space opposite the closet is just a bench with space under neath or either a flip up top. It was just a hallway with closets, but it seemed like such a waste, so I asked him to bump it out a foot and put a bench. I might also do something on either side of the bench- like shelving or something.

Jim Bishop cabinetry is made in Montgomery, AL. We have it in our bathrooms and laundry rooms. Laundry room can be seen here:

Link to Jim Bishop. We used Deluxe boxes. They did not have inset doors when we were building 5 years ago. They came out with them the next year.

Sorry for three posts, but wanted to give you direct links. You can see all our bathroom cabinetry in this link. The exercise bath has a more Craftsman looking door on them.

I had the installer cut off the bases and buy feet. I wanted more furniture like cabinets in the bathrooms. Did not do this in the laundry room. He ordered extra paint and stain so they would match.

The cabinets we have are well made. The house our GC built for friends of ours when he finished our house used them too. Even in their kitchen. I know you are not looking for, but others may be, but they have a rustic wood available with knot holes. It is gorgeous. Rustic, old looking. If they had carried inset doors when we were building I would have stopped looking at that time and gone with them - glad I didn't, but! lol

Your space:

The space to plan is this.
All any KD need to see is this.

In your basement, where are your drains?
This is good to know now.
Unless it's going to be an unfinished basement.

Allison, if my kitchen turns out 1/2 as nice as your laundry room, I will be thrilled!!! Thanks so much for the info and pictures- so helpful to know that before my meeting tomorrow!! Your house is beyond breathtaking.

Allison, your bathrooms are just beautiful!

I'm sorry, Spider... as much as I tried to be clear, I know how hard it is to get into someone else's brain... even more so with a 3 yo climbing on you. Probably didn't help that I had a 19 mo trying to brush my hair while writing that out. I am no good at drawing and don't have software... sorry!

Keeping the same dimensions and layout of the bathroom, if you took scissors and cut out just the bathroom so it is now just a little separate piece of paper that you can move or turn in any way you wanted...

And if right now on your drawing it is pointed toward 12:00

When I say "flip", I mean keep it pointed toward 12, but turn your piece of paper over, so that the sink and toilet are on the right and the door moves left...

When I say "rotate", I mean turn the piece of paper to point it toward 3:00, so that the door is now on the left instead of the bottom of your little piece of paper...

With it in that orientation, move it down and to the right, so that the sink and toilet share a wall with the stairwell, and the door is on your right as you go through to the mudroom.

If I can, I will try to sketch it on graph paper this evening, unless someone else can draw it on software.

In the meantime, can you give the dimensions on the layout for kitchen and mudroom? They are difficult to read... but maybe it's just me!

You are going in so many directions, but good to have all this figured out before walls go up. I hope others will keep chiming in to help with the kitchen. Be encouraged!

Spider- What window is above the kitchen window? Is it a bedroom window?

I was thinking maybe a three window (either all the same size or larger middle and a smaller one on each side) for the kitchen window. A pergola over your porch would be so amazing. I remember seeing one on a California craftsman that Bob Vila had on his show...and Norm built this incredible pergola. It was just beautiful!

I don't suppose your little girl's room is above. Maybe you could fit that window seat in for her. All children love window seats (but it would be perfect for a little girl's room)...you just decorate them differently :)

Jsweence, I got the bathroom in the right place, but I'm lost after that. (I actually did cut out a little piece of paper) I'm staring at it and I can't figure out where to go next.

Lavendar, above the kitchen window is one of the kids bedroom windows. But, they are spaced out in a way that matches the windows in the front bedroom. (imagine 4 windows in a row, perfectly space out, and perfectly lining up with the windows below) There is no way I can change it. If anything, I think I could move that kitchen window one foot to the left since it's a double window and the ones up top are single- it would still sort of line up. Do you think moving it over just a foot, so that it's almost centered, would be a good solution? I would love to make it bigger and move it over in an ideal world. Just one of the many things I'm sure I'll find after the fact and wish I had done differently.

Why can't you move it? Doesn't it make your house more interesting? Form follows function (apologies to Louis Sullivan. Your house is not made of Legos with every room being the same box. There are different uses for different rooms. Express it!

No comment on the kitchen layout, as I have no idea what I'm doing and I'm sure mine would go beyond butchered to crucified if I posted it... LOL

But, on bugging your builder. Do it. He works for you. He can't read your mind and your house is not the priority to him that it is to you. If you don't ask everything, tell everything, and bug the hell out of him, you won't be happy with your finished product. Your not paying him to like you, you're paying him to build. Just sayin'. ;-)

V
PS
Can you tell we are within a week of being done? haha

Spider, regarding your husband not wanting a prep sink at the island, one thing to consider is having your kids interested in cooking when they're older and wanting to help out. I know that must seem far off at the moment with a three-year-old, but the time will fly.

The other nice thing about a prep sink is that you can save the main sink area for washing up, and use the prep sink for rinsing vegetables, peeling carrots, etc. These are all things I never thought about when my kids were little, but now that they are 10, 11.5, and 13 and *love* to cook, we are definitely planning to accommodate them and their interests in the new house we're building next year. Our kitchen right now is a one-bum kitchen and it gets tight and cramped with four of us moving about...

One kitchen you might want to look at for ideas as far as glass in the upper cabs and an airy look is Orchidluvr's. She has a farm sink under a wonderful large window.

Just wanted to let you know that I'm playing around with it but what I was saying before won't exactly work, unless you do what someone suggested above and shrink the kitchen and expand the mudroom a bit. (I think that's what I read... I can't find that one on a quick search.)

I've promised myself I'd finish packing for our trip tomorrow before I look at the computer again... better get to it, but I'll try to get back to you, maybe after you meet with the KD and share what you come up with.

Enlarge the window!!! My builder thought I was loco when I made the window over the sink larger. (Even my husband was surprised at how insistant I was about making it bigger.) I fell in love with the look from seeing pictures on gardenweb and wouldn't say yes to anything else. I get giddy every time I walk in the kitchen. I can overlook many things if I can look out the window and have sunlight streaming in.

spider96-I told you everyone would help you!!!!

What's more important: enlarging the kitchen window or centering it? I don't think I can do both. I could add an extra pane of glass on the left and lower the whole thing. Or, I could shift the entire window to the left and center it (mostly). If I make it bigger by adding one on the left, it will still be weirdly off center.

(the foundation is poured....I'm pretty sure I can't shift the porch over, but again, my builder has not gotten back to me on that. Ugh!)

Do you have a plan for the second floor, we can see? Okay, I just love to look at floor plans, but I'm still curious :)

My mom and I went shopping for manufactured homes, when she retired. She wanted everything new, but was on a limited budget. There was one that had a cute little U-shape kitchen (no island) but the window was off-center...but it matched up better on the outside. Anyway, it didn't look too bad in the floor plan, but when we actually went into the model home and sat in the kitchen...it drove us crazy! It made the whole room feel off-centered and leaning to the right. My mom said at the time, she could have put a trellis on the outside of the home, to work with an offset window, but she couldn't redo the cabinets and window, once she got the home. She ended up finding a different home, with a very nice L-shape kitchen...

Obviously, it's your house and we all want you to be happy in your new home, but I just wanted to share that, for what it's worth.

An ideal kitchen,
not over the top,
has at least this
(in my view).

delete "uppers" on the wall, because you have enough storage volume in drawers,
and you can add some of them back in later to make proportions right, and to add interest or accents.

sinks
made of
coffee silgranite,
anthracite silgranite,
porcelain,
soapstone,
enameled cast iron.
not stainless (some people have been known to rub them all the time like they were the barrels of their weapon of choice)
Not biscuit silgranite (shows smudges long after it's basically clean).

If one sink
then
with multiples sources of water.
No need to let a single faucet be the bottleneck spot.

an IHW
a filtered water tap
a chiller (not in the fridge)
a faucet that mixes regular "mains" water (hot and cold lines)
another mixer valve for a hose and spray "wand" with toggle

Two fridges,
one being near the sink nearest the cooktop; this could be drawers under counter.
one being where "other people" will go get things and not disturb the cook or the flow.
Preferably one is passive cooling (nothing dries out there; good for cheeses and organics)

Say "no" to side by side fridge/freezers.
The space always feels tight.
The space is always narrow.

a dishwasher drawer,
and
an 18" or 24" full height dishwasher

in the basement:
a chest freezer
(passive cooling, not frost-free: no freezer burn)

Drawers as "deep" to back wall as possible. E.g. Tandembox 650mm length
This dimension is distance to back wall, not the height of drawer.
And counters 29" or 30".

All Drawers, everywhere, even under the sink.
Wide drawers.

Lots of HVAC appropriately planned long in advance.
A big canopy for the extraction fan.
Lots of MUA for when the fan is on "high".

--

Spider, here are notes i've made, in terms of what is most maintenance-free.
This might be good to have on hand when discussing with DH your SO.

What
shows smudges least / most
makes clean happen / the opposite
looks neat not messy / the opposite
looks OK even if dirty / looks still dirty when it's basically clean
easy to clean, and time is little / hard or takes time

--

/ is used to separate categories
, commas, are to keep a number of things, in the same category

Here we go.

counter clutter: slim vase for an eye target flower, glass bowl with fruit / with toaster oven, coffee maker, coffee grinder, salt / with canisters and mixer
faucet: laminar flow (cause splashes) / aerated flow and strong / aerated flow shaped to reduce splashback
configuration: sink and cooktop on same counter / on separate counters (sweep floor more often)
faucet mounting: wall / on counter / on counter with escutcheon (ring around faucet base) or wide plate
faucet finish: brushed / matt smooth / smooth and shiny / shiny chrome (polished chrome)
floor color: beige, mottled, marbled / medium, dark / creamy, off-white / white
floor material: laminate, marmoleum, linoleum, vinyl / wood / tile
appliance finishes in general: black mottled / bisque mottled / white mottled / brushed / smooth
brushed stainless finish: this is hard to describe with an appropriate adjective, but go touch high price appliances and notice how they don't show finger marks!
paint finish in low grease areas: matt / semi-gloss, pearl / high gloss
paint finish in high grease areas: semi-gloss, pearl / high gloss / matt
backsplash: rough surface tile (stone) / brushed stainless / matt or mottled glass, smooth tile / shiny tile / shiny glass / mirror
backsplash tile pattern: square / running bond (alternating; doesn't align grout lines)
grout: unsealed / sealed / epoxy
walls and "upper" cabinet fronts: solid / glass front cabinets / open shelving and open storage
cabinet fronts: slab / shaker / panels and beading / fluted or other detailed woodwork
vent hood type: recirculating with charcoal filter / exhausts outside and noisy / same and silent at lower speeds
vent hood material: steel / glass
vent hood fan: propellor blades / squirrel cage / same and powerful and with make-up air provided in whole house HVAC
microwave: no turntable / with turntable
electric cooktop : radiant / induction
electric cooktop color: white / black
oven: hidden coils / exposed coils
gas cooktop: sealed burners / open burners
countertop positioning: overhangs forward over the drawer fronts (no drips on them) / cut to be flush (drips go on the drawer fronts and dribble from there)
countertop make: factory-made quartz / soapstone (hard, not soft) / slate, granite, quartzite / wood / marble / limestone, travertine
sink: brushed stainless, ceramic, enameled cast, dark color silgranite / flat finish stainless, light color silgranite
sink mounting: mounted from underneath with counter on top / mounted from above so sink rim sits on top of counter
light placement: several sources and types of light, dimmable / a row of lights over the counter / one central light (never makes good shadows), or washing light down a mediocre wall (shows wall off, but only good if wall is good)
suspended lighting: pendants that one can clip off and put in the dishwasher / pendants easy to wipe down / ornate
embedded light: tube fluorescent, LED's / embedded incandescent (xenon, halogen) / puck add-ons

zones:
storage (pantry) somewhere removed from the cooking and cleaning action triangle / storage close to or inside the action triangle / no pantry, storage mixed up everywhere
two clear counter areas at least 36" each / one counter area clear for at least 48" / small pieces of counter interrupted by sink, cooktop, ends
a central or isolated triangle, with small fridge (for the cook) / a central triangle with the only fridge / a triangle mixed up with pantry and prep zones
sink and cooktop have elbow room on both sides / sink and cooktop have no counter on one side

main aisle:
for one person or two who know how to get along well:
41"-44" aisle / three inches more or less than this / 35"-37" aisle / aisle 49" or wider (too many steps)
for three or more, or for two who are not well coordinated:
add 3 inches to the above numbers
(of course this all assumes that one likes a small triangle for the cook)

layout:
with straight runs that end at the wall / with corner cabinets wrapping around a corner

Some of these notes above might not be spot on.
I'm not a KD.
I've hired them, and hired bathroom designers and cabinet designers too.
Everyone has their own opinions.
None ever satisfied me, because I'm unusual in several ways, and I think they used that to pump fees (for conversations and proposals) instead of working with me.
I got along great with most of the tradesmen.
I learned a lot about plumbing and tile setting when I remodeled bathrooms.
I learned it on the web and from the trades.

I figured I would focus more on what kitchen renovators might know that I didn't know, and that is how I ended up here.

HTH

Wow David, thanks. LOL about the gun comment!
I will take some time today to read all of this carefully.

I have already picked out my sink and faucet and only picked out a basic faucet....maybe I should look into a water chiller? Where would that be located?

jsweenc- Thanks anyway....I guess I'll get use to turning those corners!

I got confirmation from my builder today. He said the window can shift a little to the left. (it's already coming down to the counter top) If he shifts it to the left, it will still not be centered. Just closer to center. The only way to center it is to reduce the window size. He cannot make the window wider because he said it will not line up with the upstairs window and it would not look good to move the upstairs window. So, my options are to leave it as it is, shift it a little to the left, or reduce the window width and center it. Whaddya think?

Forgive me but making a main kitchen window smaller so it will line up with something on another floor is builder-speak for not wanting to spend more on a larger window.

I would make that entire wall a window -- issue a change order -- then it will all line up. Smaller is convenient for him but not nicer for you ultimately. Centering the window should not be a problem if the design is properly executed.

That wall is in a direct sightline with your front door. Everyone who steps into the house will see it in the first 3 seconds.

How is that wall in sightline with the front door? I'm confused now.

Anyway, that wall is on the side of your house, right? Do you have an elevation drawing of that side? Matching windows perfectly on the side doesn't seem to be all that important to me, but I haven't seen your house.

Here is my idea, which is drawn very poorly on photobucket, but maybe you can see it:

{{gwi:1931359}}

Make the porch longer and the mud room entry shorter, then you won't have the outside door interfering with your new large window. You would have to move the coat cubbies to a different place in the mud room, but it's a big room and looks like it could be done.

There isn't a lot of light in the kitchen, it looks like, as it is, even if you move the one window over.

This seems to me like it could work, but there are certainly things I don't know, lol. What is the view? Maybe you don't want an enormous window there anyway. But you could put flower boxes on the porch rail in front of your kitchen window, that would be a nice view.

Anyway, just food for thought. You shouldn't have to redraw your entire house plan, but maybe a little tweak like that would help.

The windows have not been ordered yet- any change would fall under my expense, not his.

The windows have to line up with the upstairs windows- that is code for the neighborhood.

The porch cannot move because the foundation is set. I can only shift the windows slightly to the left because of the wall for the porch. He is not telling me to make it smaller- he's just saying that's the only way to perfectly center it in the kitchen.

What's the porch made out of?

Not that it matters ... Like I said, there are other things we can't see (like, the second story of the house!) so floorplan tweaking is apparently futile.

Ok, so I'm going to try and simplify this. There are 2 separate issues people are talking about.

1. Make the window area wider

2. Center the window

Those are 2 different issues. We cannot do both. I am more concerned with centering the window, although I'd love to make it bigger also.

IF we made it wider, it would have to go wider to the right (and a little to the left) and the sink would be even more off center. (because the porch cannot move)

If we try to center it, it can only move a little to the left. To truly center it, you'd have to move it to the left and reduce the window width.

I talked to the builder this morning- he said that the foundation is pourded and moving the porch is not an option. He did not sound flexible about that at all. Why do some poeple sound like I should still be able to move it?

The window upstairs can move a little- that's not what's holding us back. It's the porch. In an ideal world, I'd move the porch over 2 feet, center the window, and make it bigger. Oh, and the porch is made of....wood or pvc- not sure yet. I think it has stone at the bottom.

And yeah, it's not visible from the front door.

Wow, all this sounds crazy complicated. Make your life easy and just shift the window over at least the ft. he's allowing. It sounds like the issue isn't just your windows upstairs but also the back porch which your builder is right, cannot be moved if it was poured with your foundation. I'm building right now as well and our porch would never be able to be moved since it is part of our foundation which sounds like yours. As much as I hate to agree with a builder sometimes, from the outside if you start moving one window it's a chain reaction to the others not only visually from the outside but also from inside the rooms. I'm pretty certain the windows upstairs are centered on your bedroom walls so if you start moving those, you start a new set of problems with balance in the bedrooms. At least that's what I'm assuming is going on with the builder being so hesitant to move windows anywhere.

I do agree with others, you have a ton of space and cabinets everywhere so you might consider putting in open shelves on that run where the window is.

Sorry, I misspoke on the sight line. Not from front door -- I meant from the living room -- working off floorplan.

My suggestion on making the entire area that backs up onto the porch into a window is to avoid the frames lining up. If that doesn't work codewise, then there's another decision to make.

Also was suggesting that it would be worth it to incur an upcharge to expand the window. Perhaps I'm biased on that but my DH wanted to change out all the windows here and I resisted -- now I'm sorry. In those areas where he insisted in enlarging them as much as possible it has been a huge success.

Of course, proximity to neighbors might be a game changer but in a kitchen with the scale of this one it seems the window is already a bit small -- centering it would help but increasing the size, if possible, on a wall that becomes part of the living room visually, seems extra important.

And it's something that seems to appeal to you -- it certainly would to me. The kitchen will be very full of cabinets and appliances and the bigger the window the more open it ultimately will feel IMO.

I'm thinking the pantry is in the wrong place.

{{gwi:1931360}}

Had same thought bmore but those brief pass-through areas can be very handy as butler's pantries with all kinds of goodies there but didn't want to spend someone else's money without permission. LOL.

No, I totally understand what you're saying about the porch now ... no big deal. That's what I meant about not knowing the rest of the house.

If you move the pantry over like bmore's idea, and leave the window where it is in the original plan, maybe it could be centered that way? I haven't checked the math.

Just looked, that won't work.

(I don't mind the off-center window anyway...)

Ok, going away now .... (sometimes crazy brainstorming that doesn't work leads to other ideas that do, but I fully recognize that I am not a layout person, :-P )

I think bmorepanic has a great idea there.

the pantry will be closer to where groceries come in. they could 'land' on the island til unpacked. fridge is there also.

you can have (hopefully) more / bigger window in kitchen / over sink area.

no cabs on back wall. dishes could be kept in cabs over side wing (on joint DR wall) or in drawers under counter (even in island).

Make the window wider! You will not regret more natural light into the space, especially since the window has a huge overhang with the porch roof--it will all be filtered. Anyway to have a skylight? or 2?

I know you've received a lot of opinions about a lot of stuff so here's another. Could you make the entry into the pantry from the corner inside the kitchen? it would be quicker access and I don't think you'll be hurting by giving up some of those cabinets.

Also, partly why you don't like this kitchen is because there is no detail. Hopefully, your KD will fix that. You need some interest with open shelves, glass, legs, etc

the one room that bothers me is that small room between the garage and the mud room. i think with that closet there, that will feel like a gerbil run. Can't that be where the kids hang their backpacks and coats? Just the daily stuff then leave the actual mudroom for seasonal, crafts, etc.

I like the butlers pantry. I like having a cocktail or dessert or coffee station away from the madness of the kitchen and I like the noise buffer it offers to the dining room patrons

I think it looks great overall and I don't think a 48" fridge or Wolf will look out of place either. Good Luck

I have been prepherally following your post. I like bmorepanic's latest idea best so far if it works within your porch/window issues. Your very first plan really lacked natural light in your kitchen. Do you have open two story over the public rooms where it will bring in additional natural light to the kitchen? Only you know if the issue of light will matter to you or not. But for most people, having natural light in spaces that they occupy alot is very important to them. Relative to the sq ft, your original kitchen had the least amount of direct window. (look at LR,DR,den etc). This new plan addresses that in a much better way. I like where the pantry is as well.

I like the sink/counter/range top cooking arranged linearly. It is probably the MOST EFFICIENT way of cooking once you have everything out that you need. You can do everything you need to do with minimum walking. I might swap the prep and clean up sink since I prefer to walk over the counter rather than turn around to get to the range. This decreases the mess on the floor and is easier on ergonomics for me. This won't look as good since a small sink will be coupled with a large window. There are always trade off. Either way, I like the overall plan.

Just a detail, but I would center a larger opening from kitchen to the dining room rather than a small off center door. You have a big enough kitchen that a loss of few feet of counterspace will not matter and esthetically, you can do really fun things with decorative columns/bookcase etc in the dining room if you center that opening. Again, the trade off is that the spaces will not be closed off from each other.

Your floor plan is essentially a variation of center hall colonial or American four square with four large rooms and central stairway. These houses look best with symmetry paid attention to as in your dining room opening.

This is also just a detail, but I would triple the window rather than quadruple as bmorepanic has done because you have already used the theme of tripled windows in the house, ie front elevation. Not only that, with triple windows, you do not look directly at the window division when you stand in front...

Regarding moving the porch/windows or not.... Anything is possible if you are willing to pay the change order that is generated. Again, only you know if you are willing to pay it or not. Don't let the builder direct the show. You are paying the bill. If you want something done, ask for a price. Don't take no for an answer. Once you have the price, then you decide. For example, they can actually break out the concrete of the porch, attach new rebars to the existing foundation and pour new foundation (just like what they would have done if you added on to the house....) There will be a delay in construction of course. The cost added will be the delay as well as the monetary cost. You have to decide if it is worth it or not..... There will be many other issues that will come up. Be braced for dealing with issues. Ask for ways to remedy them and the cost for that rather than taking no for an answer.

Do you have an architect? Architects can be your advocate between the builder if you have a good relationship with the architect and you and the architect agree on the esthetics of the house. Just asking....

I wish you the best. You have alot of good help here.

I haven't read all the posts but that off center window would really bug me! Could you expand the porch down the hallway so you could have two smaller windows on either side of a range? What is above the hallway into the mudroom? You have tons of space in there so I wouldn't think losing a little bit of the hallway would make much of a difference.

It may make your windows off center outside on the porch though . . who do you expect to use the porch entry? It goes straight into the mudroom so just immediate family I guess?

I do like the moving of the range to break up that large expanse of cabinets if you can't move the window

Wow, so many great ideas- thank you so much everyone. And bmorepanic- I love your idea. I'm going to read over all of these posts again and really think about everything. I just came out of a 4 1/2 hour meeting with the kitchen designer!

Ok, so her idea is to remove the pantry wall and shift the wall that way, therefore centering the window and sink. She wants to do a different type of pantry space where you have special kind of cabinets that have pull out shelving. She said she would do 3 of them and they could hold food and/or appliances. With the leftover pantry space, she could do a built in buffet in the dining room on that wall. (we can't move the dining room wall b/c of the window) She's not exactly sure how it all will work out at this point and said she needs to work on it. I will definitely post an update when she gets back to me (a week or so)

Does anyone have an opinion on getting rid of the open pantry and putting in a more cabinet type of pantry?

In other threads, from 2008, 2009, and 2010, I read extensively how storage volume is optimized when you have drawers in your base cabinets.
The kind known as "frameless cabinets" are best.
First, search on this if you need to get familiarized with this concept.
-- "frameless cabinets"

Doing all drawers would give you so much more space, that you won't need a pantry with shelving.
My conclusion.

With frameless, it works like this: cabinet sides and the slider mechanisms take up about 1.5" space (width).
The loss in width compared to having open shelves is negligible.
In my previous kitchen, with face-frame cabinetry, the loss in width was about 5 inches(!).
I'm not an expert and I'm not playing one here either.
These are my figures based on a little bit of observation.

I now have 6 wide cabinet banks, one of which is a set of two 36" wide fridge drawers.
That makes 22 drawers in total. (Some deep some shallow).
The surface above them is either counter, cooktop, sink, or wall oven.
The cabinets all have 4 or 5 drawers each except for the sink cabinet which has 3 drawers and the fridge which has 2 drawers.
Inside the fridge are extra holders simulating an "internal" drawer, so the undercounter fridge can hold a lot.

Seeing the base cabinets when the drawers are all closed, you wouldn't know that there are that many drawers.
The drawer fronts are fewer than the number of drawers in total.
This is because some of my drawers are "interior or internal, so one doesn't see them when the drawer façades are all closed.
After pulling open the main drawer front, you see the interior drawers.
In a few cases, the inner drawer is clasped to the main drawer so when you pull open the main drawer you also pull the thin interior drawer with it.
This is good for cutlery drawers.
Of course you can unclasp them too.

So, back to the pantry:
Having lots of good useable storage space in base cabinets allows you to drop the extra wall for the semi enclosed pantry.
This expands your space and gives you a lot more freedom for your layout.
It's all gain. No loss of space or storage "volume". No disadvantages.
Remember that drawers pull out a full 20"-25" and let you see everything,
while shelves are never as deep as 20"-25" and never that easy to see stuff on, if they are packed.

I once calculated the gain in space that I got from having drawers in frameless cabinets.
It more than doubled my storage volume from my previous kitchen of the same size.
So, I got rid of the uppers on one wall.

HTH
--
David

Well, one thing I covet that I couldn't have is a walk-in pantry. I've never had one, so I don't really know. I would try my hardest to keep it (somewhere), but maybe someone who has had both could chime in.

(Is there any way to move the pantry over near the space where the desk is -- maybe turn it perpendicular-- then move the doorway to the dining room to the right, and still center that window? I don't have any software, sorry, because I know it's much easier to see than read about.)

What does eliminating the pantry do to your butler's pantry? Our kitchen is configured very similarly, and we too have a butlers pantry on one side with a pantry across in the hallway that connects kitchen and dining room.

Athemsmom- I have no idea what will happen...I'd really like to keep the butler's pantry area.

Segbrown, you lost me....
My husband wants to keep the walk in pantry, too. I just seems out of the way for cooking essentials- maybe they can be kept in drawers?

very very very rough

{{gwi:1931361}}

That is very interesting segbrown....I like it! I'll play with this a little. Thanks!

Sorting my thoughts about pantry --

I like to know what I have and be able to find it easily. It would irritate me to open up multiple storage units to find what I need or inventory what I have or need at the store. I'm kinda willing to open two and that's it.

I would rather have stuff on shelves than drawers or pullouts for food storage. Don't want to be looking at the tops of the items (and I'm way to lazy to relabel them) or have to walk around something like an open pull out unit to be able to see what's in both sides. I'd rather just take stuff off shelves. Don't get me wrong, if it was a cabinet pantry v. no pantry, I'd certainly take it and be grateful.

Drawers are fixed sizes and are just not as flexible. Want to buy that large size of cereal? Too bad, won't fit. Paper products, pet food, or stuff that comes in larger packages are examples of things that may not fit in drawers or pullouts. Some kinds of pullouts can be reconfigured, but that can be a pain - stop putting stuff away, empty the target location and adjust a shelf, bin or pullout, put the stuff back.

In your original kitchen plan, the thing about using the dining room wall is that the food storage is a bit far from the likely prep area on the island - up near the range. This can be an ok situation for an organized chef - the type that gets out everything first and wouldn't mind carrying a basket to and from the pantry.

But if that doesn't describe you, like it doesn't describe me, that kitchen plan is a recipe for a lotta walking and some frustration. Like 20 to 40 feet of walking for everyday stuff like a cup of milk or the forgotten can of chili beans.

You can duplicate some items in a nearby cabinet. In fact, in the original layout, you have enough upper cabinets to duplicate most food products. Then the pantry itself becomes a place to store overstock and little used kitchen stuff.

Lastly, everybody's interior image of "pantry" is different. My ultimate pantry is close to this...
{{gwi:1931362}}found on Design Sponge

Each person will try to talk you into their internal image because it works for them. If you or your spouse has a completely different image, that's ok!

I have no internal image of "butler's pantry". I'm kinda puzzled by why people who don't entertain a lot have one. Maybe if I had one, I'd figure it out, but I'm not in the price range for that!

Thanks bmorepanic for your thoughts on the open pantry. I think I've getting more and more convinced that I should keep it and just store other essentials in cabinets or drawers.

In a kitchen the size of yours, definitely keep a walk-in pantry. You need to reduce the look of massive expanse of cabinetry instead of adding to it with pantry cabinets.

spider96 here is a rough idea for areas, which I scribbled last weekend. It blocks off the cooking area with its own fridge and storage. It includes a butler's pantry at the left of the door, and a dishwasher area on the right hand side. It manages to center the window too. None of the angles are firm. A pro can rework this or whatever other area distribution you want and remove the wonky angles.

As kaismom pointed out during this week, you need first of all to plan the plumbing drains and placement of electrical things. I put little handrinse sinks everywhere possible, and I also redrew the cloakroom mudroom area, and gave the bathroom a shower.

hth

I'm coming late to this and apologize if this is really crazy, but if this were mine I would be inclined to put large steel multipaned glass double or triple doors where the sink and window are. Put the sink and dishwasher in the island. You have the room and plenty of storage. The big doors would be beautiful and would enable you to step directly from the kitchen onto the porch so you could easily carry out food and drinks.