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chiefy

Custom cabinets really cheaper than stock?

chiefy
12 years ago

I've seen this mentioned a couple of times and it just seems counter-intuitive.

So...can anyone share their experience - including $$. Letting us know what stock lines you looked at, actual custom cost, and what part of the country you're in?

Comments (47)

  • beaglesdoitbetter1
    12 years ago

    We got quotes from Candelight Cabinets, Medallion Cabinets and several custom cabinet makers. We are near Lancaster PA and have the benefit of being able to work with Amish/Mennonite cabinet makers.

    Every single custom quote was cheaper than Candlelight and Medallion for cabinets with more features. The cabinet maker we are using (Dutch Wood) was a little over $20,000 cheaper for the kitchen and we are getting beautiful 3/4 plywood cabinets w/ solid wood drawers, custom color, blum glides, dovetail construcion, more drawer organizers/inserts, and the level of customization that I wanted (i.e. raising my island 1.5 inches to accommodate a silverware drawer above my freezer drawers, using mirrored panels on the fridge, etc.)

  • joyce_6333
    12 years ago

    I live in WI. It's very difficult to compare apples to apples here.

    The two most dramatic differences in bids I got were from Showplace ($60,000+ for plain oak) and the bid from a REAL cabinet maker who has a shop on his property (under $40,000 for select/premium hickory). That was a huge difference for us and more than made up for the cost of the granite. We had a lot of work done by the cabinet maker before, so we were very familiar with this work. 10 years ago when he was just getting started, he did our entire kitchen in QS oak with full inset doors for under $20,000.

    Also, another reason we went custom was it was so much easier working with the cabinet maker. I spent almost an entire day with the Showplace rep, and so much of the job would have been "custom" in her words because she couldn't supply certain things from the "catalog". With custom, you just lay out what you want and they build it that way.

    One other stark difference for me was the cabinet maker would be on site often throughout the build, and the Showplace rep said she would not be at the job site. Installers would come to do the install. Our cabinet guy was here often during our home building process and worked closely with the trim guys and painters to get stains consistent, and to see everything fit nicely. Our home has alot of wood, and with Showplace I had to chose from their palette of stains, none of which were quite right. I was able to go right to the cabinet makers shop while the cabinets were being built and we worked together developing the stain color.

  • Marc12345
    12 years ago

    Yes and no. In the mid-Atlantic, we were looking at Wolf/Shenandoah/AmericanWoodmark. Custom prices started at about 2x higher - but they seemed like a better cabinet and quotes included installation - installation was not included in other quotes. For us it wasn't cheaper, but if we wanted to contract the installation and were looking at better cabinets, I think custom would've been competitive.

  • kateskouros
    12 years ago

    i designed the kitchen myself so i was sure to finalize the plan before shopping it around. to be honest, it's been a long time so i don't remember the lines i received quotes from, but they were all semi custom from name brand manufacturers and i received quotes from (i think) four different brands.
    when i realized the limitations (and cost) of going this route, i began to look at custom. i figured they'd be much more expensive but to my surprise it turns out they were quite a bit cheaper AND i could have my cabinets sized and fitted exactly as i specified as well as have all drawer inserts made to order. typically, a manufacturer will bill these items in addition to the cost of the cabinets and they are usually very pricey. to me, a kitchen filled with empty boxes is useless.
    each of the four custom cabinet makers were less than the brand names and included drawer inserts whereas inserts were not included in the cost of the manufactured lines.

    having a plan was key for me. that way i could get accurate costs from each vendor, not just an estimate. GL!

  • ginny20
    12 years ago

    It depends. My true custom cherry were about the same price as Shenandoah, after you added in the cherry and plywood upgrade. My cab maker said he does mostly cherry, so he buys big lots of the lumber, so he gets a good price on it. I also had a custom cab quote through a GC that was $6000 more than the Mennonite craftsman I used, and I got a quote for semi-custom that was $2000 more than the true custom.

  • laranbrian
    12 years ago

    Here's a post that I did a while back that relates my experiences with cab pricing:

    "After visiting 2 box stores and getting bids from 9 local custom shops and the cabinet guy that our GC recommended, we got our deal. The big driver was pricing. We found a HUGE range in pricing on identical cabinets. We were very meticulous with the specs of the cabinets to ensure that everyone was bidding on exactly the same thing (materials, hardware, methods of construction, etc). We had a range of over 2 fold difference from the lowest bidder to the highest bidder. Local shops adjust their bid considerably depending on their current workload. We got lucky and found a talented cabinet guy who had no projects going on at the time.
    If one were to normalize prices to the Home Depot price we got we paid 73 cents on the dollar for fully custom cabs. The lowest bid was about 50 cents on the dollar. The highest was 1.11 on the dollar. All in all, the custom shops averaged lower than the box stores.

    Food for thought!"

    I'd strongly suggest trying the local cab shops. You'll get a better product for a better price.

  • Fori
    12 years ago

    Depends. There are good and bad in both. Without references, I'd do factory over custom. I think there is less risk with a big brand.

    It's hard to compare and I got so much "we can't do that" from the people selling factory cabinets (Wood-Mode, Omega something, Kraftmaid, Ikea, etc.) that I didn't give them a fair chance to compete.

    But having someone come and use every inch you have is something you can't really compare. Making your drawers based on the height of your favorite flour jar is valuable in a small kitchen. Having your cabinets exactly how deep you want while using all that space is just nice (and my custom guy didn't charge extra for 30" deep lowers with 18" uppers--it still takes the same amount of plywood as standard ones do).

    Working with someone who says "Huh? Oh. Yeah, we can do that" instead of "that isn't done" is kinda nice too.

    Keep in mind that each custom cabinet maker can have a big price range too. You can do more upgrades or fewer. Mahogany or MDF. Full extension drawers or those ones we all love to rip out (don't skimp on drawer slides though!). Etc.

  • jscout
    12 years ago

    It depends on the cabinetmaker. In my search I also started with HD (Thomasville), Lowes (Shuler) and a local lumber yard that my contractor uses (Schrock). From that I went onto two reputable local cabinet shops (Ultracraft and Cabico). Finally, I went to see three local cabinetmakers. One of those three cabinetmakers was the highest of all the quotes. The other two were among the lowest. With the exception of that one "high-end" custom cabinetmaker, everyone was within $4,000 of each other.

    With all the semi-custom manufacturers, I could never get exactly what I wanted. I have an unusual nook where I wanted to fit a pantry. None of the semi-custom with their limited options would make it work right without extra charges. Cabico is a custom manufactured cabinet and they could do it. Of course all the local custom cabinetmakers we able to do it.

    In the end, I picked the local cabinetmaker who could do the whole job for less than everyone, including installation. On top of that his "standard" options were all upcharges by everyone else. For example, I got all plywood boxes with cherry veneer, dovetail drawers, solid panel cherry doors, blum soft-close everything, all hardware (anything from Amerock and Richlieu that was not forged or specialty) and installation.

    For a similar price, everyone else except the custom guys were particle board, maple veneer, some solid panel doors, no hardware and no installation. One of the local guys actually gave me a choice between Blum tandembox drawers or maple dovetail drawers.

    The local guy I chose is a family business which has been in business for over 60 years with a shop near me that I could visit and see the work first hand. There's also a back story. When I introduced the cabinetmaker to my contractor during the measuring, it turns out that my contractor's father-in-law and the cabinetmaker's father were good friends. My contractor bought his house from his FIL and it turns out that the cabinetmaker's father actually built the cabinet in the house. Small world.

    I never would have considered a local cabinetmaker had I not heard about them being cheaper here. So do yourself a favor and do give them a chance. You might be pleasantly surprised. I was.

    Disclaimer: My cabinets aren't in yet. Installation is scheduled for next Tuesday. But I've been in frequent contact with the cabinetmaker over the last few weeks. Either they called me to confirm/clarify details or I called them with questions as I reviewed my space. He invited me to come visit the shop and see my cabinets this Saturday, ahead of installation. While it's not a done deal, it is comforting.

  • plllog
    12 years ago

    If you're getting standard boxes, no special sizes, no special shapes, no scribing in, you can probably get the best price in stock. The stock at the big box stores is aimed to builders, who want to buy large amounts of the same thing, and have their own carpenters/installers to add in filler and make slight alterations where necessary. If you have a good installer, you can ride those coattails and save some money.

    If you want to customize and optimize your space, most of us here have found small shop custom cabinetmakers (i.e., those that have the equipment, like the edge bander and joint cutter, to do all their own work, but not to factory scale), will be less expensive. There are also woodworkers who will make cabinets without a shop and with few employees, who buy their doors and drawer boxes pre-made from large suppliers. These can also do a good job for a good price, but it's harder to be sure of the quality ahead of time.

    An advantage of a local cabinetmaker, rather than factory custom, is that if something isn't quite right (like if the wall has changed between the measuring and the installation), it can be taken care of right away. The cabinet is put back on the truck, taken to the shop and brought back. With the factory, there's crating and shipping involved, and waiting your turn for their attention. Most small shops want your cabinets out of the way because they have no place to store them, and they want the installation finished so they can close the books on your job.

    So, yes, local custom can cost significantly less than the same thing from a major maker, though straight stock can cost least of all, and, also, local custom can be more attentive and responsive for a variety of reasons.

  • aprilmack
    12 years ago

    I was pleasantly surprised that my local cabinetmaker offered better, custom cabinets for a much lower price than the local big box stores. The custom lazy susan in the top cabinet (which I truly need because I'm short) made the sale.

    I honestly didn't even consider a custom cabinetmaker until reading this forum. My cabinets are still in the design phase but I'm extremely comfortable with the custom cabinetmaker already.

  • Fori
    12 years ago

    Yes! Installation is something to consider. My cabinet guy did installation which means he knew exactly how things went together and if it wasn't right he could take it back (didn't happen). So if your local guy costs more than the factory stuff, make sure you're also including installation prices. Some do and some don't.

  • MCMesprit
    12 years ago

    We went for a local cabinet company in Northern WI for cost and reputation, but service is another consideration. It's been six months and we have had some minor adjustment issues (probably due to the high heat/humidity this summer). Our cabinets came with lifetime warranty with no exclusions. One e-mail and they sent someone right over to make the adjustments.

  • Capegirl05
    12 years ago

    Our contractor sent us to the guy he used when he built his house a few years back. He was a local guy on a smaller scale. I went to the two big-name cabinet makers in our city and their bid was double what we were quoted by the local guy for the same specs.(including a few built-in features, Blu-motion and full-extension drawers, dove-tailed drawers, etc.) Thanks to this forum, I asked all those ??? Now, the difference is that the high end place finishes their cabinets in their warehouse and then installs. Our cabinets will be finishes after they are installed in the house and I have to admit, I am a little nervous about that. My GC assures me that it is done all the time and the cabinets in his home are amazing! You are smart to research it. People here have had some good points to consider.
    Good Luck!

  • chiefy
    Original Author
    12 years ago

    ~capegirl - are you in MA like your name implies? If so, could you share who you're working with?

  • holligator
    12 years ago

    Our completely custom cherry shaker cabinets were approximately $17,000 installed. The quotes we got for stock and semi-custom cabinets in the same basic layout ranged from $28,000 to $48,000. The quality of the cabinets I ended up with is far superior to any of the stock lines we looked at, AND we were able to get many of the quirky features we wanted without any additional hassle or cost.

    Plus, the pride in craftsmanship from the cabinet maker was clearly evident. For example, during the install, he noticed that my broom closet door was slightly warped. I looked and couldn't see the warp until he pointed it out to me. Without comment, he took it down and apologized and said he'd be back the next day with a new door and, of course, he was.

    The main reason we chose him in the first place was due to a friend's experience. She had had him make maple cabinets for her kitchen five years earlier. She realized that her sloppy dishwashing habits over the years had left some water damage across the top of the cabinet door in her sink base. It was only noticeable when the door was opened, but she called him to ask if there was anything she could do to repair the damage--damage that she had clearly and admittedly caused herself. He told her he'd have to come see it. When he saw the damage, he told her he didn't like how the finish was holding up and he wanted to refinish it. The problem was that refinishing one door would make that door a slightly different color than the others. So, he ended up refinishing ALL her doors and drawer fronts at no cost to her. No stock cabinet company would do anything remotely similar to that!

    Certainly not all custom cabinet makers are as fastidious, talented, and inexpensive as ours. However, in my opinion, if you can find one half as good, you'll be much better off than ordering from an anonymous distant factory.

  • KitchenCabinetKings
    12 years ago

    Cabinets are classified in 3 ways

    Stock
    Semi-Custom
    Custom

    Short answer - custom cabinets are more expensive than stock cabinets. It may be possible to find an inexpensive custom cabinet maker that can be beat semi-custom cabinet pricing from companies like Kraftmaid, Kemper or Merrilat, but you would be hard pressed to find a custom cabinet maker that will sell a complete set of cabinets for a 10 x 10 kitchen at just $1,200 dollars, which is the entry point for stock cabinets.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Kitchen Cabinet Kings Stock Line

  • Nannajoe
    12 years ago

    We have gotten bids from Lowes, a local lumber/cabinetry store, considered IKEA, and gotten a bid from a cabinet maker, and the cabinet maker has given a bid equal to or lesser than some of those mentioned. He came to the house to measure everything, the price will include the crown molding and counter-top, and finished wooden ends, no particle board. I love the maple cabinets, but chose to go with a medium tone finish on the oak to save some $$ that can be used for appliances.

  • tomalyse
    12 years ago

    I live near San Francisco and we used a company called City Cabinets - who make semi-custom cabinets, the best of both worlds. We have a 1928 house that is not exactly plumb anymore and our wall dimensions were not standard either (18' 2.75" x 11' 11" - why would they do that??). Stock cabinets would mean lots of fillers and wasted space - and in a small kitchen, I wanted to use every inch. Custom cabinets were not in our budget. Luckily our contractor had worked with CC in the past on a similar home. Semi-custom meant that I could design each drawer, each cabinet to the exact dimension that I wanted (an 11.75" inch wide drawer? fine - bring it on; a 15" high drawer on our island that allows for the heighth of my son's favorite cereal box? no problem). They sent a cabinet maker out to the house to do detailed measurements - and he really cleaned up things that my kitchen designer missed (making sure certain drawers carried the same horizontal lines, better places to put plugs, etc on our island, suggestions on how to work around the hood, which ways the corner cupboard doors should open, etc). He even took a tracing of our 1840's step back cupboard that was going to stay in the kitchen - and used that template for the crown molding so that it all looked perfect! Finally, it was his idea to echo the cupboard on our pantry wall, making our pantry have a step back with the same dimensions. The savings is that they fed all the dimensions into a computer that then cut all the pieces. It could do anything with only a 1/16" tolerance - so drawers open fully side by side with no fillers at all. They could adjust the heights slightly (hidden by a toe kick) so that the countertop and everything is level, despite a 1/2" drop in the floor from end to end. All the shelves are adjustable so I could have all my dishes reachable without a step ladder with taller items on top. All the drawers and cabinets that have solid fronts (as opposed to glass fronts) are lined in a melamine - which makes clean up a breeze) The doors are solid cherry and the inside of the glass fronted cupboards are also cherry. All drawers have full extension. I have heard that this type of semi-custom is becoming more common - so see if there is a similar company in your area. It was more than stock cabinets - but we have so much more usable storage. It was less than custom, done faster and because of the accuracy of the computer cuts - everything fits perfectly.

  • plllog
    12 years ago

    OT to Capegirl05, yes, it's done all the time. A lot of the outcome depends on what the finish is, and how good they are at doing the work. Same as anything.

    This is what my cabinets looked like as they started to tape them off for finishing. The interiors were factory finished, and they did the doors and drawer fronts off site after they'd been installed and fitted (see the hinges?). That left the onsite finishing for the edges of the cabinet boxes, frames, posts, and ends. I am highly allergic to VOC's so my cabinetamaker found some ultra-low VOC varnish from Italy that was no problem at all to have in the house. The entire kitchen was draped and taped off from the rest of the house during this process. The only problem was when the installers came back with the doors, forgot whose house it was, and opened a can of thinner in the kitchen. :( Otherwise, it wasn't any problem at all.

  • Fori
    12 years ago

    I wonder why Cabinetking disagrees with everyone who isn't selling stock cabinets like he is. Smells like spam, but not as good.

  • plllog
    12 years ago

    Now, now, Fori. I said the same thing. If you're getting the non-fitted, builder's style cabinet boxes, and compare that to a quality cabinetmaker's price for the same no-customization boxes, the stock is probably cheaper. Those are the ones that come in 3" increments and a few standard colors.

    It's definitely a commercial posting, but it pertains to the topic of the thread, so I wouldn't call it Spam.

    I do sympathize. We had so much spam there for awhile that I wrongly accused one person, and had a spammer say that I'd wrongly accused her another time. :) Commercial posts are really really annoying.

  • jscout
    12 years ago

    Chiefy, where in MA are you? I'm in MA too.

  • juniork
    12 years ago

    My custom cabs from a chinese place (Gao's Group) were just slightly cheaper than Kraftmaid, and roughly 30-40% less than the quote from an east bay company (Precision Cabs, brentwood, i believe). I will say that his cost for my daughter's custom 30" vanity was the same price as my other kids' 84" vanity, both shaker style, but long vanity was from a reasonable quality made-in-china stock cabinetry place (KWW).

  • chiefy
    Original Author
    12 years ago

    @jscout - I'm in Wilmington.

  • Buehl
    12 years ago

    Just a word of caution..."local (custom) cabinetmaker" is thrown around here a lot with the implication they are superior to the various cabinet manufacturers. They may be, but there is no guarantee. "Local custom cabinetmaker" does not necessarily equate to "high quality" or "low cost". There are many very good custom cabinetmakers out there, but there are many not-so-good ones as well. Just b/c someone is a "custom cabinetmaker" does not make him/her a good cabinetmaker. And, it's not just their skill at cabinetry...how are their business skills? E.g., How are they at meeting schedules? Do they stay within the cost they quote you? How do they deal with issues? What is their warranty? What recourse do you have if they drop the ball? Sometimes you can go "over the heads" of people at cabinet stores or even go to the manufacturer (at least for warranty issues), but you might not have that option with a local cabinetmaker.

    If you go this route, be very diligent in your research:

    • Contact several recent references, including at least one who had problems so you can see how s/he handled those problems. Ask about:
      • How were they at keeping to the schedule they promised?
      • Did they stick pretty close to the cost estimate they gave them (no hidden fees, undeclared upgrades, etc.)?
      • Did they let them see a sample of their order for approval of the finish, etc. prior to completing the entire order?
      • How did they handle construction issues?
      • How did they handle installation issues?
    • See actual installed kitchens with the same type of cabinets you are looking for:
      • Type: frameless, framed overlay (partial or full), inset
      • Wood species: cherry, maple, alder, oak, etc.
      • Finish: stained, glazed, painted
      • Construction details: Wall thicknesses, box material (plywood, MDF, etc.), interior finishes, box construction
        (joining, etc.), drawer construction, shelving, etc.
    • What is their warranty on their products? 5 years? 10 years? 20 years? Lifetime?

    These are all the same questions you should ask of a manufacturing line as well, but all these things are usually spelled out somewhere and they have staff who specialize in these areas. You usually have some "standard" recourses if there are problems. In addition, their quality, including finishes and construction, are generally pretty consistent (yes, there are glitches occasionally) and they have the advantage for those finishes that are better when manufactured than when done by hand.


    I'm not saying don't look into local cabinetmakers, I'm saying be careful. We have had several threads where people have gone this route and have had major issues in all the areas above...construction quality, finish quality, installation issues, difficult to work with, etc. And yes, there have been similar threads from those using cabinet companies (but those are usually resolved fairly quickly once the person gets up the courage to say something.)

    If you can...

  • plllog
    12 years ago

    Buehl is right of course. I think I'm not the only one who was phrasing my opinions in the assumption that one has found good people to deal with--not something to assume in real life, but something one must do before worrying about costs.

    We've had scads of horror stories about big national name cabinet vendors, as well, screwing up orders, taking months to replace items damaged in transit, being non-responsive, etc. There aren't any guarantees either way, and you must do your research, not just blindly pick the lowest price.

  • Capegirl05
    12 years ago

    Chiefly...I WISH I lived on the cape....it is my favorite place on earth and we vacation there, hence my name :o)

    Plogg-Thank you for sharing the pictures. Were your cabinets painted or stained? I need to find out about where the doors will be finished. This is a new build so not sure. I am very nervous about the cabinet finisher. All of the other trades that the GC has subcontracted have been very good, so one could assume it will be alright, but then it is never good to assume :o/ when you are building a house.

    Holigator-very similar story to ours. Amazing the difference in price.

  • GreenDesigns
    12 years ago

    I've seen plenty of "custom" cabinet makers who made some of the shoddiest cabinets around. There was the old fashioned "make it in place" guy who bought stock doors and then constructed the cabinets to fit the doors---with lots of odd spacing between them to "fit" the space. And then he slapped paint on it (over the dust, dirt, and bugs) and called it a day. The whole kitchen probably cost him around $1500 and he charged the customer 10K for it. She thought she was getting a great deal over my Kraftmade quote of 15K. She cried like a baby when she came back to me to buy the Kraftmade.

    Then there's my cousin who lives in a pretty well off suburb of Atlanta. She had custom cabinets put in her home as well. They were a complete gazillion steps hand rubbed finish of hand selected matching wood. The cherry has such depth and just glows in the light. Those were pretty far from being cheaper than any semi custom manufactured line! I think she spent around 80K on them, where I could have done them in Kraftmade for around 35K.

    Most custom guys will be somewhere between the two extremes, but if you are getting a price that is thousands cheaper, be sure you really inspect that quote to see the actual specs of what you are getting. Chinese plywood and hardware are just two of the ways that you can get cheap quotes. That will greatly impact the long term wear and tear of your cabinets.(Look at the plywood vs particle board thread for more information about this.)

    The finish process is another area that is significantly different between lower priced and well priced custom. It's really cheap to just stain and spray on site, but it results in a much much poorer quality finish. The highest quality finish will be obtained by using a spray room off site, with multiple sandings between sealing to the last finish clear coat, which should be a catalyzed varnish. Preferably one cured by UV exposure.

    What I'm saying is that very often cheap custom cabinet quotes are exactly that: for cheap cabinets. It comes under the heading of "too good to be true" and "there's no such thing as a free lunch". If you've fully investigated and find that you are getting non Chinese top quality cabinets for an inexpensive price, then there's the other possibility that your cabinet maker is a great cabinet maker but a lousy businessman and may not be around long because of that. There have been several people that have faced that issue, with the cabinet maker folding up shop on unfinished orders.

    So, just be very careful that you know what you are comparing, and that you protect yourself financially. Use a checklist of features and sources you want. Be sure to inspect everything personally, including his references for older jobs. Pay with a charge card, not cash or check. Keep a significant hold back amount until the absolute last of the job is done. Be sure your contract spells out the procedure for any disputes as well as the parting of the...

  • daveinorlado
    12 years ago

    This board is a good place to share information... But not on this subject. Stock means it is on the shelf ready to sell or it is on the shelf ready to assemble by the factory. Not one person on this thread mentioned buying their cabinets off the shelf of lowes or home depot and loading them into the truck to take home. Woodmark / shennandoah are not stock cabinets as you can chose your color. A stock cabinet will be prefinished. 6 square is a stock cabinet, Allwood is a stock cabinet, all RTA brands are stock cabinets, Contractors Choice (aristokraft in stock in Pa wholesaler location for kitchen and bath dealers to sell). Every post is comparing the cost of semi custom and custom cabinets made by large scale factories with brand name recognition to locally made cabinets by a company that does not have the money it costs to create a standarized book with MSRP's. Brand name cabinets are going to cost more the company has built the name to have a reputation, franchises are successful in the US as the name is equated to minimum quality. You take more of a chance with a locally made cabinet. I bet you if I went to most of the kitchens from this thread most of the cabinets are not more custom then any kitchens sold by lowes or home depot. Just because you added a pull out spice rack or a cutlery tray divider does not make your cabines custom. Custom means not mass produced because the assembly line process of manufacture did not offer what was needed.

    No locally made shop is going to sell you a set of cabinets for $1,200. Stock would start at about that price as mentioned above. I ask people I meet do you want frameless, face framed or inset. Most people have no idea what those are.Do you want RTA or Something low cost higher quality then RTA.(Stock lines that are niche market like 6 Square) I ask do you want plywood or a version of presswood. Do you want wheatboard to go truly green with complimented with Low VOC finishes? Do you want soft close drawers and doors? Do you want everything sized as close as possible without fillers? You still need extended stiles (fillers built on the cabinet from time to time. If you are placing cabinets between to walls you need to allow somewhere for the install to fit just right. I prefer to make the cabinets 1/2" less then the total distance with a cabinet that meets the wall with an extended stile to cut onsit to make it fit just right. Trying to make everything fit without that nevers works walls are not straight enough.

    It is good that so many people on here understand the basics of kitchen design but it is very clear that the missing link of most people on here is they do not effictively translate the knowledge to the buying process. Other wise the posts I see month after month would not have so much miss information when it comes to how they decided to purchase or compare proposals properly.

    Stock cabinets are not for a person who is remodeling a kitchen and wants to personalize the...

  • Jakzof3
    12 years ago

    We began our kitchen journey a year ago. We are currently remodeling, after 30 years. Our first cabinets were solid custom oak. They were made fantastic. As we removed them we kept asking ourselves if we could find this quality again. We are using custom again and getting maple glazed this time around. The quality is also excellent. No plastic and no laminate. With the custom we can get everything we want and custom color. We looked at numerous other cabinets companies that carried semi custom as well as three other custom cabinet makers. Our local area has many Amish made cabinets and the quality is very good too. The price as compared to big box stores and semi custom cabinets was still less by going custom. I think one has to be a good consumer and really know what you want. Dove tailed drawers, no plastic for corner support, full extensions, and the hinges, and good glides. We went to the custom shop several times before we contracted with our cabinet maker and were very impressed with the quality of work. They also do the full install. Our first cabinet maker provided all of the appliances as well. We did like that because that made it easier than having to look for appliances. This cabinet maker does not do this so we purchased the appliances on our own. The previous cabinet maker also gave a great price on the appliances if purchased with the cabinets. Our son just got custom oak cabinets...solid wood for his whole house for a bit over 12,000.00 and his kitchen is huge. They live in MN so maybe the prices are lower in his town. I was just aghast at this low price. I have seen the work and it is beautiful. Almost unheard of..custom for the whole house for such a reasonable price .. Wow what a deal. So I say to you, go custom if you can and you will not be sorry.

  • plllog
    12 years ago

    OT to Capegirl, con't: I have bamboo. They were only varnished. The same principal holds for any spray finished in place, however. Hand painted or hand rubbed in place in no big deal and don't require all that masking and taping. I had cabinets hand painted in the master bedroom, with none of that, just good painters. I prefer the brush strokes to the overly smooth spray finish. Most painted kitchen cabinets are sprayed, however. It's supposed to be the more durable finish.

    The point of finishing on site is so that there will be a consistent finish that won't get damaged in transit and installation. They do the finishing after everything is installed. Especially if there's a paint or stain involved, it also means that they use a single batch so the color will be the same. At least they should. If it's going to take more than one bucket full, they usually mix the buckets together so that any slight variation is lost.

    You're right that it's never good to assume, and also right to trust your GC since he's been on top of his subs thus far. If you're still concerned, why not start a topic about on site finishing and get more experiences.

    DaveinO, I don't count as a person? Those who said that they couldn't give an accurate comparison to stock because going custom allowed them to do so much more don't know what it means? You've provided some good information. There's no need to be spiteful in doing it.

  • Mercymygft
    12 years ago

    DaveinO.... I didn't get the impression that when the OP talked about "stock" cabinets that she was referring to the cabinets that you purchase right off the shelf. I was under the impression that she meant the cabinet lines sold like, Kraftmaid, Diamond, Schuler, etc. at HD & Lowes and other brands that are sold at the non-big box stores like Medallion, Merillat, etc.

  • senator13
    12 years ago

    I would also just like to say, that all the custom manufactured cabs that I looked at, had limitations. Either they wouldn't do a certain wood with a door style, or they wouldn't do the finish (matte) that I wanted, etc. Of course it is set up that way so they can make money. They know what most consumers want, and that is what they offer. Even Geppetto, which according to DavinO is highly custom, I couldn't get the door style I would have wanted in QS Oak. I could have gotten this from Crown Point, but I easily would have spent a great deal more on my cabs than I did.

  • daveinorlado
    12 years ago

    merymygift made my point. She was comparing semi custom to locally made. Not stock or "instock" if you want to call the cabinets you grab and go off the shelf in stock. I am not trying to be spiteful. I get so annoyed at the way people share information on here which is honest but still the blind leading the blind all to often. To have post after post lead you to believe that locally made cabinets are cheaper is nonsense. The jist of this thread would lead someone to believe that who is on here trying to learn their way thru a remodel in a the planing stage.

    Their are times when a custom company that is a large scale production company will not offer something you want. Conestoga who makes the doors for Gepetto must not have made the door style you wanted in Qaurter Sawn Oak. I have never understood why someone would want one. But that is my taste and ultimately not important. My personal outlook is if I can not get it thru geppetto then I probably do not want to be involved in your project any how! It is rare when you can not get what you are looking for. I was not trying to sell my line up. I was trying to ilustrate the reasons why different companies exist.

    I would take a door made by conestoga and a cabinet box made by Geppetto with a limited lifetime warranty from a company that will be in business to stand behind the warranty any day of the week over working with a cabinet maker who rents a 1800 sqft industrial unit that can decide to move to the sunbelt and make a career change.

    I still would bet any amount of money that most people on here who say they have custom cabinets that were locally made are not anymore custom made then anyone else who bought cabinets from Lowes or Home Depot.

    I say that because look at this thread most people on here answering the question are not even answering it becasue the advice is for comparing semi custom to locally made when the question was stock. Stock means the cabinet parts are on the shelf at the cabinet company ready to assemble and ship. Some companies finish the cabinets as they are ordered and the less expensive ones have the cabinets pre finished without assembly.

    So why would you think the people who state they got custom cabinets cheaper then stock do not even know what they are comparing. I do not doubt their kitchens are nice just that not all of us including myself know as much as we think we do.

    I use Geppetto because they are pretty flexible in custom cabinets but I am half the price of wood mode and other brands that are like it that are custom with national brand name recognition. I am sure their are many other companies just as good as them that are similar in price.

    I was asked to quote a kitchen last week that is a galley 10' on one side and 14' on the other. They wanted delivery in 1 week or less. Wall cabinets were 42" high with a 33" by 12" deep pantry. My price to the customer was $2,400 delivered. For all the posts above mentioning the...

  • formerlyflorantha
    12 years ago

    I made the error of pricing what I thought was generic 'shaker' cabs in order to see where the pricing would fall. The custom guy won, hands-down. Then I tried to upgrade style of cabs and suddenly all the prices were meaningless. My custom guy doesn't do a lot of the fancy schmancy stuff. As long as I chose within his limited set of design choices, I could have any wood I wanted. So I took his 'shaker' style--it was the only thing I could afford that he makes and that I like. I really wanted a different cabinet door but "them's the breaks." We saved a lot of money and got a lot of cabinets and a lot of customized features. Our cabinets are very strong and have good hardware. I've maximized the space by using this man and his shop and I kept to budget.

  • aries61
    12 years ago

    daveinorlado : I sent you a pm regarding Koch.

  • sskit
    12 years ago

    Getting customed installed this week. Cabinet maker uses maple plywood for boxes and faces are made in Germmany (Alder & Cherry). Was the same price as Koch cabinets that we were considering. Cabinet maker has been great to deal with has been to our house at least a dozen times. Other Cabinet/Kitchen places did not offer near the help he did with design. Location Pittsburgh, PA

  • holligator
    12 years ago

    daveinorlado, perhaps the lay people here are using terms differently from how you use them, but that doesn't actually mean that they're wrong. Frankly, the industry can't seem to agree on terminology. I've heard many industry professionals use the same terms in quite different ways. Terms are used differently from one region to the next and, within a region, from one shop to the next.

    The terms I used were the terms used by the KDs and cabinet sales people I dealt with. In fact, after hearing my budget range, the KDs steered me away from the "custom" lines they sold and said we could go with either "semi-custom" or "stock" cabinets. Their definition of "stock" was NOT what they had on the shelf, because they didn't have anything on shelves ready for me to walk out with and install myself. Their definition of "stock" was that I was limited to the shapes, sizes, and finishes available in their catalog, everything in 3-inch increments, and so forth. The "semi-custom" lines allowed me to do much more customizing to my space, but there were still some limitations and many choices meant big upgrades in price.

    ALL of the cabinets they sold, no matter what their designation for them, were far more expensive than the independent cabinet maker who made my cabinets in his shop. As I said before, not all independent custom cabinet makers are as skilled or inexpensive as mine, but there was nothing of remotely similar quality for a price that even approached his.

  • jscout
    12 years ago

    Chiefy, here are two MA custom cabinet shops you can contact. As far as I know, they both will service Wilmington.

    Eastern Cabinet Shop in Hyde Park. These are the guys I went with. It's run by two brothers who took it over from their father. They've been very good to work with. My cabinets will be installed this week and I'm using every inch of my kitchen.
    http://www.trustthisbiz.com/eastern_cabinet_shop

    Country Craftsmen in Uxbridge. They were my second choice. They've been referred to on these boards several times. I have a personal friend who actually bought their cabinets. They were the ones who offered me a choice between Blum Tandembox drawers or wood dovetail drawers with Blum Tandem Slides for the same price. I also visited their shop and they have an autobody paint booth for the finishes.
    http://countrycraftsmen.com/

    Yes, I also read "stock" to mean standard size/dimension offerings as opposed to off-the-shelf "in stock" items like they have at Ikea, HD or Lowes. When Chiefy said, "I've seen this mentioned a couple of times..." I also recalled reading those other discussions in the forum too. Most if not all of those were about standard "stock" offerings and not off-the-shelf "in stock" offerings, RTA or not. Let's not fool anyone. Off-the-shelf "in stock" will almost always be cheaper. Why? Because they are mass-produced, usually somewhere where the labor and/or materials are less expensive. No argument there. But compare that to the standard "stock" offerings and it's a different ball game.

    The main point here is that the local cabinet makers should never be ruled out based on the false assumption that they are always more expensive. Remember, the local guys have to be competitive too. Otherwise they'd never survive, even in a good economy. The ones who adapt and do good work stay in business. They stay busy with referrals.

    Anyone and everyone needing cabinets for a kitchen should always seek out at least one local cabinet maker, just like they should seek out at least one big box store and one kitchen dealer. Leave no stone unturned. As a consumer you owe it to yourself to find the best value for your money.

  • Circus Peanut
    12 years ago

    daveinorlando, I understand that you are a cabinet dealer and thus sensitive to these questions for the understandable reasons of wanting to make a living. The OP's question, however, could perhaps more precisely be stated as "Is it possible to get local cabinets made specifically for my kitchen that will be cheaper than anything I order from a catalog?"

    This discussion is not comparing lines from catalogs. It's comparing consumer experiences with having cabinetry made by a local craftsperson as opposed to ordering it through a middleman like yourself. You must be aware that you are not a neutral discussant in this matter, and it might be better for your blood pressure to avoid the topic.

    "I still would bet any amount of money that most people on here who say they have custom cabinets that were locally made are not anymore custom made then anyone else who bought cabinets from Lowes or Home Depot."

    I'd bet that you are mistaken. Here's how mine were made; not a UPC bar code anywhere on 'em:

  • plllog
    12 years ago

    I still would bet any amount of money that most people on here who say they have custom cabinets that were locally made are not anymore custom made then anyone else who bought cabinets from Lowes or Home Depot.

    Good grief!! Dave, you may know your lines but you haven't read enough threads on this forum if you think that. My cabinetmaker and I poured over my initial drawings. He told me he could make anything if it was made out of wood. Same price for standard cases and my heart's desire. He prices by the kitchen. I said, "No, I want it this way," and he made it.

    I said I was allergic to VOC's so couldn't have them in the processing or adhesives of the wood, so he sourced ultra low to zero VOC plywood for the boxes, bamboo for the fronts and varnish for the finish. I said I didn't want little cabinet doors above the coolers, so he found heavy duty flip up hardware that would take the weight. I knew that flip down hardware was available for the table, and he concurred, but I didn't want the bamboo to be horizontal so I found sunflower seed husk board and he made the flip down table out of that.

    We went round and round on inches. I wanted every inch of counter space I could get, so he reduced the frames for the ovens, and I nixed his desire for symmetry on the spice rack. He and my tile setter had many discussions of exactly what height to reach the windows for a flush installation, and how to finish the tops of the cabinets. He put in flush plywood, on a misunderstanding (it was meant to be flush boards, I guess), so he routed channels in it as you can probably see above.

    He created aprons to cover the undersides of the sinks, and cutouts for the services. He created bamboo moldings which the chief installer, who has a reputation for perfection, matched as much as is humanly possible, to the cabinetry. He created bamboo veneers wherever the plywood would show, and has an edge banding machine for veneering the shelf edges, which I would have been fine with having as exposed plywood. He wanted to use it on the fronts as well, but I convinced him that the bamboo core was pretty and it only needed to be finished. I won a convert.

    He made me custom shelves from the bamboo with just the edge treatment I requested, and designed little feet to hold up the bottom one where there wasn't enough room between the shelves and the cabinet for one of my decorative brackets.

    He made the drawer boxes to my particular specifications. I measured my stuff and figured out exactly what I wanted, and that's what I got. When I wanted more pullouts for my pantries he made extra. I also wanted Arlosmom sideways pullouts where I have true blind corners, and he figured out how to make them roll on the shelves rather than being attached to the cabinet sides, so the shelves are adjustable. In the cabinet which was thereby too wide, I said I'd be fine with a stile but I wanted it that wide to be useful to me, and he figured out...

  • KitchenCabinetKings
    12 years ago

    @Fori - I'm not trying to disagree, just trying to answer the original poster's question. Based on my 8 years experience as a kitchen designer/cabinet sales, custom cabinets will cost more than stock cabinets. Additionally, I was trying to clear the confusion that many people have classifying semi-custom cabinets as stock cabinets.

    @pillog - ty for the defense and yes you are accurate, stock cabinets are available in only the color and style shown(no mixing styles and colors) and in 3" W increments. We do offer custom modifications of depths, double oven cabinets, and farm sink cabinets, however overall most stock cabinet lines offer little to no custom modifications.

    @DaveinOrlando - Very good job explaining the differences between stock, semi-custom, and custom. I would add many of top quality stock line cabinet manufacturers rival the construction methods used in popular semi-custom cabinet manufacturers like Kraftmaid, Kemper and Diamond. For example, our stock line, features all plywood boxes and shelving with matching interior finish standard, however the three semi-custom lines mentioned do not. To receive those features, you must pay for an upgrade on each cabinet.

    For the record, as someone that attends all the KBIS events and has relationships with many high level executives of cabinet manufacturers across America,I can attest that there is clear industry terminology when it comes to cabinet classification. If you contact any cabinet manufacturer in America, and ask them what type of cabinets they produce, you will get one of the following answers stock, semi-custom, custom

    To further clear up the difference between stock and semi-custom. Stock cabinets are indeed stocked in racks at the manufacturer's warehouse in the flat packed un-asssembled form(RTA). When they receive an order from a kitchen dealer, it is either shipped RTA, or assembled first at the warehouse, wrapped and inspected before shipping. Stock cabinet orders can leave the warehouse in as little as 24 hours and typically arrive to the customer's home within 1-2 weeks

    Semi-custom cabinets manufacturers do not stock cabinets in their warehouse and manufacturer each order as it gets placed by their kitchen dealers. They are unable to stock cabinets primarily due to the multiple style/finish combinations offered and the extensive SKU line. Most semi-custom cabinet lines deliver within a 2-8 week timeline depending on the manufacturer.

    Hope this information helps!

  • yuri2002
    12 years ago

    I almost pull the trigger on some 6 square cabinets, but I found out the interior is made of faux birch with melamine coating. Everything else about the cabinet is plywood. I will have to continue my search, anyone heard of Young furniture in Bow,NH? They sell unfinished cabinet made of purebond, formaldehyde-free plywood. Thanks

  • jscout
    12 years ago

    "If you contact any cabinet manufacturer in America, and ask them what type of cabinets they produce, you will get one of the following answers stock, semi-custom, custom"

    That may be true, but the dealers are the faces of those manufacturers. Virtually every dealer I met referred to the uncustomized portion of the semi-custom lines as "stock." In other words, the word "stock" and "standard" have become interchangeable. As such, consumers in general, have embraced this usage as well. Why? Because it makes sense and it is used that way in other industries too. Perhaps the members of KBIS and all manufacturers need to do a better job of educating and being more consistent.

  • plllog
    12 years ago

    I'm not doubting that there are a lot of dealers who use the terminology in all the wrong ways cited, but I, who have only bought local custom or cheapo flat pack RTA, have learned from other consumers on this forum about the divisions the pros in this thread have mentioned, the way they've described them. This doesn't speak to the OP's intent. Perhaps that message was using the mixed up terminology, but when I read the message I thought it might really refer to stock off the shelves too.

    What KCK left out of his/her post is that there are a lot of installers who will do customization carpentry on stock cabinets which is how kitchen design firms earn their keep selling stock cabinets. The cabinets are the same, but the designers and installers make things work. They also understand the little tricks, like one we've discussed here where you take a stock refrigerator surround and turn it into a banquette. It's a value added service.

    What I have learned in the Kitchens Forum, however, is that stock is what's ready made and comes in certain sizes and colors. The best stock lines have extra finished panels and fillers that can be used to make customizations as well as what they were intended for.

    Semi-Custom come in inch, or sometimes smaller, increments, and have a wide variety of finishes available, but you have to use the woods and finishes they offer, and are made to order. Some of these lines will make a fully custom cabinet or two to match in but there's a sticker shock on the pricing. I think there are standard sized door blanks for these, as well as pre-cut pieces for the boxes, which accounts for the price difference if they have to make something truly custom. That, and the bother.

    Custom, whether local or big factory, is made to spec and require shop drawings, whether made by the firm or a designer.

    I think the pros have a point about learning the correct terminology. The only way to have good communication is to know what each other are talking about.

  • chiefy
    Original Author
    12 years ago

    I appreciate everyone chiming in to answer the "spirit" of my question as well as pointing out that my terminology was horribly wrong :)

    I suppose I should have worded it "is local craftsman built really cheaper than Branded Custom"