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lalithar

Long Galley Adobe Kitchen - Layout Feedback Please

lalithar
12 years ago

Dear Kitchen Gurus,

Please help review our kitchen plans and advice on changes that will make it work better. We are finally getting geared up to remodel our kitchen. It has been over a year that I have been following this forum (since we purchased the house). It is a whole house remodel project and kitchen remodel is part of that. This is our forever house and we want to get it right.

Our Sweeby Test:

My kitchen feels cool and is a well-lit place for 2-3 people to work together. It is efficiently organized to cut down time for everyday tasks of prepping, cooking, cleanup, breakfasts, and lunch packing, as well as easy to work in, to make meals for a crowd. It looks timeless with clean lines and a simple palette that belongs with the simple, strong earthen look of my adobe brick ranch house. My backsplash is simple and blends with the adobe brick walls. My countertops have a well loved gleam and easy to see cleanliness. My equipment is accessible, looks clean and well used. There are interesting and useful items that add character and have a story to share. Fruits and vegetables add color. My family and friends find it welcoming for casual visits, hanging out, lending a hand and cooking together for impromptu get-togethers, special occasions, making jams, etc. We love lazy Sunday mornings in our sunny kitchen table with the paper, eating pancakes/eggs and looking out the window at the redwood trees and flowers. My kitchen has an easy flow to the courtyard for enjoying picnic dinners on summer evenings, or a quiet early morning cup of coffee, and to the veggie garden for fresh herbs and vegetables.

About our house:

We have an Adobe brick house in Northern California that stays wonderfully cool in summer and cozy in the winter. A lot of exposed brick walls and use of wood (redwood and some pine) that is structural - beams, ceilings etc. It is very seamless indoor/ outdoor living as the house is wrapped around a courtyard with seating etc. There are doors leading to the courtyard from both ends of the kitchen. We invariably eat out in nice weather. These doors also function as the main entry doors as the garage is to the side in the back and this is a shorter path with heavy grocery bags. No basement and garage is a trek (so no outside kitchen storage).

About Us:

There 2 main cooks in the kitchen (my active but elderly mom and I) but DH is the cleaner-in-chief and also helps with prep. I have a young daughter who loves to help/watch me cook. Our parties are also often cook&eat together type casual affairs where I may have 2/3 people making salad, reheating, getting the food for the kids etc. I have a lot of family around who drop by. We cook vegetarian food - a lot of fresh produce, salads, pastas, and rice. I am an avid veggie gardener and have a vegetable patch and herb spot near the kitchen. Produce and fruit storage is a lot. We often have 5 varieties of fruit in the house and have 4 kinds of milk (2% for kid, FF for DH, Soy for me...

Comments (14)

  • remodelfla
    12 years ago

    What a fabulous sounding space and house! This is going to be a blast to watch come together. A couple of changes I think might work is to flip the frig to where you show the farm sink/DW and scoot those down. THat way others can access the frig without crossing the cooking zone. It's also nice to have a frig by the MW for snacking/leftovers. If you were to make that change I would then switch the prep sink over to the other end of that run and just move the cooking area down a bit. You will love a 5' path between the two runs. It;s what I have and I find it perfect. I really love what you are doing here!

  • sabjimata
    12 years ago

    Lalitha, I agree with remodelfla. Especially with the fridge next to the microwave. Enjoy your new kitchen. Sounds great. Love that you are going to be deep frying! Mmmm! Puris? Pakoras? Kachoris? Just let me know what time I should show up for lunch ;P

  • Buehl
    12 years ago

    An alternative layout...Cleanup Zone on one side, Prep & Cooking Zones and Baking Center on the other side. 42" window instead of 36"...if you can change it!


  • Buehl
    12 years ago

    4. 15in Miele Wok - decided
    5. 45in hood - wish

    If you use the wok for stir-frying or do any other high-heat or high-smoke (grill) or steam (pasta) or grease-maker cooking (sauteing, browning, ...) on either cooktop, the hood is no longer a "wish"...it's a necessity. A decent hood will rid the air of the smoke, grease, steam, odors, fumes, etc. while cooking before it "escapes" to the rest of the house and settles on walls, cabinets, furniture, drapes, ceilings, etc. Once it settles, dust & dirt sticks to it, eventually causing what I call "gunk" to build-up on your various surfaces.

    Good venting is a must for any kitchen that's used for cooking! (Some kitchens are just showcases, the owners never cook...so in those instances, venting isn't as important...except for resale!)

  • dianalo
    12 years ago

    I think your kitchen sounds exciting and neat!
    If it helps, we have Ikea cabs in white Applad and love them. They clean up easily, look good and most importantly, function like a dream.
    If you move your cleanup sink as suggested by remodelfla, then I'd put the drinking faucet at the prep sink near the table. I'd still keep the instant hot at the clean up sink. That has a wider cabinet below for the workings and will keep the other smaller sink less crowded.

  • ideagirl2
    12 years ago

    The link below is to my favorite Spanish-style kitchen remodel. It's a galley, like yours, so maybe it will help you figure out the layout; it also has a large range (43" I think), similar to what you're planning. The floor is wood, but it's about the same color as terra cotta tile, so it's easy to imagine how tile would look.

    Here is a link that might be useful: 1930s Spanish-style kitchen

  • bmorepanic
    12 years ago

    I'll share a worry that you have many small counter runs and very little space to deal with a lot of veg. I did this exact thing in the before-disaster kitchen and it didn't work as well as I thought it would.

    Both sides of the cleanup sink tended to accumulate stuff either to be washed or that had been washed. There wasn't a great deal of room for appliances - the increased depth should help a bit with that.

    I had a twenty inch dry prep space beside the range - it was really small. You're going to have a 24" wet space (between prep sink and cooktop) where stuff might need to get moved in order to do more stuff at the prep sink. You're planning a 42" baking space (your biggest continuous counter run) between two tall sides - you might feel hemmed in or hit your elbows a lot. Do you do mostly things in a mixer? I do a lot of stuff by hand and that may make a difference.

    In the after kitchen, I have 54" of dry prep counter and am basically happy. The prep sink is mostly a pot filler and pot drainer and is on the other side of the range from the prep counter. (I have learned to clear off the kitchen table if I'm doing something BIG and use it too). In the three years that the before-disaster kitchen lasted combined with the 7 years we lived with the before-before kitchen, I had not realized how much my cooking style changed because of the small counter runs. I had no single place to spread out a larger project.

    So, I'm worried because all of your counter runs are pretty small. Maybe consider elevating the back of the counter runs 6-8 inches of counter depth and sitting things up there when they are at rest. Same thing for canisters or the paper towel holder - you don't have to constantly pick them up and clean around or behind them. A raised back might also make a place to store drying dishes or the infamous crock-o'-tools or to have knife slots.

    Maybe try to consolidate at least one run, so more of the counter was continuous.

    The only other thing I want to mention is that having a prep sink didn't change the pile up of stuff around the cleanup sink. It did stop me from caring because I wasn't trying to double up on using the same counter for another purpose.

    Hth

  • lalithar
    Original Author
    12 years ago

    I had long two and a half days without internet! Comcast finally fixed the issue a couple of hours ago. I was really thrilled to log in and see all the feedback!

    One thing I should clarify is that we expect the Dutch door to be the main entry door into house as our garage is in the back. (where we will come in with the heavy grocery bags etc.) The kitchen will serve as entry area for people not cooking as well. Also all the family areas (bedrooms, the bench in the landing area are all near the family room.

    Changing the refrigerator position --> I like the change to make it closer to the eating area so the others can access it (suggested by both Remodelfa and Buehl). One concern I have is the distance between Prep and Fridge locations. I am not organized enough to get all my prep stuff in one trip to & from the fridge.. A lot of back and forth is typical as insipiration strikes :)My original position was with the view that all I need to do is to open the fridge to grab something, pivot and I am at the prep station.
    Microwave: It would be helpful if both MW and Fridge are on a different side than cooktop. Our hectic mornings typically have DH making oatmeal and warming milk for DD in the Microwave while I am scrambling whites on the cooktop or making tea on the stove. It will make it pleasanter if we did not have share the same counter.

    Buehl --> What do you think about the MW next to the
    Fridge on the other side (end of the counter next to the French Doors).
    Changing the Window size/ position is not an option unfortunately. And definitely yes on Hood of course. We are planning an external abakka blower and I was thinking a 45" hood.. Do I really need a 51" hood. I do not expect to ever really use all the hobs at the same time.. 30" is the smallest induction unit I can get as 24" is not available in US.

    Does relocating the Clean-up sink to the window location make it too far from the people who are trying to drop off dirty plates etc?

    Bmore --> I agree with you on the short runs issue. I am actually exploring a rail system so that I can get things off the counter (Cookbook, paper towel, tools that usually stay out like colanders etc.) I am not sure what you mean by a raised back? You mean like a ledge at the back of the counter (I think I saw this in Histokitch's kitchen) My prep sink also doubles as prep area as it has a cutting board that fits on top. I am hoping a small prep dishwasher will help keep the prep things out of the clean-up. One of the things I was trying to do is use a marble piece at the baking station and I was not sure how it would look visually if the soapstone and marble right next to each other.

    Ideagirl --> I love love this kitchen especially the cooking alcove.Thank you for posting as I had not seen it. DH nixed that idea as he feels it will look awkward in our narrow area and he does not like the small landing zone next to the stove. I am looking at Ken Mason tiles as well.

    I...

  • Buehl
    12 years ago

    The cooking alcove in the posted kitchen...your DH is absolutely right...there's not much work or landing space around that range...it would drive me crazy!

    Refrigerator...I'm not sure what you're asking...in the layout I posted, the refrigerator is next to the french doors...yes, I like it there. It's much, much easier to get to it from the Breakfast Nook, which is probably the 2nd most common location of refrigerator use (1st is the kitchen). The 5' aisle b/w the Prep Zone & the refrigerator isn't really that far...mine is across a 6' aisle from the Prep & Cooking Zones and it seems pretty close to me.

    MW...You could put the MW b/w the refrigerator and cleanup sink, just either replace the dish hutch upper cabinet with a shelf under the upper cabinet to hold a MW or put a MW drawer in the base cabinet of the dish hutch.

    Hood...it's not a matter of how many burners are going at one time...it's a matter of how smoke, steam, grease, odors, fumes, etc. travel. As they rise from the cooking surface, they immediately begin to spread out..so by the time they reach the hood, they're already a few inches past the hood capture area. (It's also not a matter of the type of fuel your cooktop/range uses...it's how you cook that's the biggest determinant of how strong & wide the hood should be.) The recommendation is 6" wider than the cooking surface, 24" deep (27" in your case b/c of your deeper counter), and, IIRC, at least 600 cfms...more is better. The higher the cfms, the lower the setting you have to use for most cooking and the quieter your hood will be.

    Window...the window can stay in the same place & size...I just thought it would be nice to enlarge it a little.

    Cleanup sink location...it's not really any father from the Breakfast Nook and it's only a couple of steps farther from the LR. I think a couple of extra steps is worth it to get better workspace and better separation of the Cleanup Zone from the Prep & Cooking Zones. Your kitchen will function so much better with the contiguous counterspace in both the Prep Zone & Baking Center. Plus, the oven is often needed during meal prep...so keep it fairly close to our Prep Zone. If you're someone who starts things on the cooktop and finishes them in the oven, you will be much happier having the ovens on the same side as the cooktop b/c you won't have to cross a busy aisle w/hot food.

    Lastly, if that dutch door is your main entry, then it reinforces my feelings/thoughts about moving the Prep & Cooking Zones to the "bottom" wall...the zone that should be most protected from traffic is the Cooking Zone...with the Prep Zone a close second. If you have a lot of traffic coming in that door, I would not want a range or oven close to that door. As to groceries, it's not really any farther from the door to the refrigerator on the "top" wall than it is to the location you have it on the "bottom" wall, it might actually be closer b/c you'll be putting your refrigerator...

  • Buehl
    12 years ago

    When mocking up something that's very different than what you're used to, don't do a mockup and just try it for a short time. Initially, it will feel awkward and "not right"...because it's "different" and not the way you're used to doing things. You need to "live" with the mockup and either actually use it for a few days or at least pretend to use it many times during the day...I recommend at least a week. I did that w/the mini-peninsula my KD thought I'd hate (b/c it would cause people to go around it), but after using it for a few days...I realized how much I liked it...it added a good amount of workspace and protected my Cooking & Prep Zones from traffic by directing people away.

  • Buehl
    12 years ago

    Here's a slightly different layout. The mini peninsula directs traffic away from the Prep & Cooking Zones, thereby protecting them both from the through traffic.

  • lalithar
    Original Author
    12 years ago

    This is so funny because my original drawing had a peninsula which we removed to keep the kitchen feeling more open. I remember reading about Ina Garten's kitchen when she talks about protecting cook's work space while allowing some socializing.. I will try this out and pretend cook a few meals..

    RE: MW drawer.. DH really does not like it as he feels he will overheat things and not be able to eyeball when the drink is just the right "hotness".. So he wants it at eye level. I love your idea of sequencing at the grocery store for bagging and put away! How about MW closer to the door instead of the fridge? Put all the breakfast things there and make it a breakfast station

    Couple of ideas..

    1) How about a 36" fridge over freezer and an additional fridge/ freezer drawer closer to prep? Does it provide more flexibility and make the fridge seem less overwhelming?
    2) My prep sink is on a 27"base (I think Elizpiz in FKB has the same prep sink). I am wondering if it would be possible to install a single dish drawer under a prep sink?
    3) Peninsula --> I can imagine silverware and other self-help content stashed in drawers there.. Would a narrower peninsula still be useful?
    4) Drawers under cooktop --> DH think this will not be doable as I want the counters to be shorter height (about 33 inches). I want to see what you guys think. I would like 2 stacks of drawers under the cooktop or immediately next to it for cookware and ingrediants. I was thinking arranged such that the drawer cabinets meets in the middle of the cooking zone so that I can just move to left or right side and open the drawer. Both would be 3 drawers (shallow, med, deep).
    The cookware drawer stack --> (cooking utensils - Shallow top drawer, smaller saucepans -med drawer and deeper pots/ casseroles - bottom deep drawer)
    The ingrediants drawer stack --> (spices and small quantity ingrediants - shallow top drawer, lentils and med quantity items (cous cous, orzo) - med drawer, and larger containers of rices, quinoa, beans - bottom deep drawer).

    thanks

    Lalitha

  • Buehl
    12 years ago

    I think peninsulas work in some situations. I have a "mini" peninsula (51" total width/length, no seating) and a wider peninsula (62" total width/length w/two seats)...but neither are so wide that they inhibit access to the kitchen or make the kitchen feel closed in.

    My opinion is that the 7', 8', and longer/wider peninsulas are the ones that gave peninsulas a bad name...I can see how peninsulas that wide would be an issue...unless it's the only real workspace you have. If that's the case, then it's a matter of the "lesser of two evils"....wide (long) peninsulas that provide much-needed workspace but can cut off access to the kitchen vs narrow (short) peninsulas that allow easy access to the kitchen at the expense of valuable workspace. Luckily, you don't have to worry about that b/c you have plenty of space to provide workspace elsewhere.

  • bmorepanic
    12 years ago

    And you don't have to build some like a mini-peninsula in - could be a prep table on wheels or one of those pre-built butcher block topped islands.