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lbsea

Raven Caesarstone - Acetone splotches

lbsea
14 years ago

I just had brand new RAVEN (not honed) Caesarstone kitchen countertops installed last week. As the installers were finishing up with their work, I noticed an outline from the acetone can remained on the countertop. They worked and worked to try to get the outline removed and I thought they were successful. Several days later, on a sunny day, I see their process didn't work and multiple can outlines in three different places along with splotches on the countertop where they were pouring acetone onto their wiping rags. The installers came back today and could not remove the outlines or splotches. They say the product is defective. The countertop company is going to send out a fabricator to try to fix the problem. I don't trust them. I called Caesarstone and asked why this would happen. They are going to call me back.

What's the deal and who should be responsible? I'm wondering if this is a tear out because the product is faulty. If not, will the product hold up when I spill something?

Comments (20)

  • User
    14 years ago

    Quartz composite counter material are 93% quartz is based on weight, not volume. They are actually mostly acrylic by volume. That means that they have a lot more in common with acrylic solid surface materials like Corian than they do actual 100% solid rock countertops. Acrylic is damaged by acetone, and I don't understand why the installers were using it around your counters. Maybe to help remove the acrylic based seaming compounds?

    This doesn't sound like a defective product to me. It sounds like a defective installation.

  • lbsea
    Original Author
    14 years ago

    Thanks for educating me a bit more about quartz composite material. Caesarstone mentions acetone on their website as something that can be used. I can see why there could be problems though.

    Are there techniques that can be used to remove the acetone splotches from a defective installation or does the countertop need to be replaced because the material is ruined?

  • biochem101
    14 years ago

    I answered that quickly and thought after maybe I should add a little more explanation.

    Acetone has a neutral pH (7.0) so you might not think it would affect anything. It doesn't work by pH, it's an organic solvent that works on the principle like dissolves like. It can dissolve other plastics and synthetic fibers. This is why you might have it around, to dissolve glue or varnish. We use it in the lab for many things, including cleaning glassware (it will also dissolve other organic products and grease) so it's usually found near the sink. Our sinks are soapstone, of course. But if cleaning glassware and there is piece of acrylic "glassware" nearby that gets splattered it leaves a white haze, melted rough area, right where the drips hits. But it won't hurt your finger! :)

    So there are chemicals in some cleaning products that will dissolve grease, and might dissolve plastics (like your tupperware), but they are neither acid nor base.

    On the other hand, (from DuPont's website) Zodiaq® resists permanent staining when exposed to liquids (such as wine(2.8), vinegar(2.4), tea, lemon juice(2.2) and soda) or fruits and vegetables, wipe up food and liquid spills as soon as possible. I added in the pH numbers there of the acids. FYI tomatoes are pH 4.0, much closer to neutral (pH 7.0) than say oranges (3.0), and not anywhere near lemons.

    BUT (again from DuPont - I hope this applies to Caesarstone too) Avoid exposing Zodiaq® quartz surfaces to strong chemicals and solvents, especially paint removers or furniture strippers containing trichlorethane or methylene chloride. Keep nail polish remover, bleach, bluing, permanent markers or inks, and oil soaps away from Zodiaq®.

    While casual exposure to alkaline materials will not damage Zodiaq®, highly alkaline (high-pH) cleansers are not recommended when cleaning Zodiaq®.

    It's the solvents in the cleaners you have more to worry about, not the pH of foods, unless maybe you leave the puddle of lemon juice sit there forever.

    So the installers might have been dissolving glue, but they should not have been letting it get onto another "plastic" surface.

    PS. In case it sounded off topic, my German kitchen cabinet had a pre-laminate kind of cloth counter. It was soft, like an oil cloth adhered to a thick felt backing that had been glued down and finished with wood trim. Sort of the original "pleather"? It was painted light green with big black bakelite knobs and I came home to find the bottle of 409 sitting there. When I picked it up there was a 'melted' hole right through!!! Ended up having to scrape off and remove the whole thing, then paint the cabinet.
    :(

  • pamelas_kitchen
    14 years ago

    I got this from the Okite (DuPont) web site:

    Household cleaning products such as "Bar Keeper's Friend", "Zud Cleanser", "Lysol", "Whirl" and "Formula 409 All Purpose Cleaner" are effective. For extremely stubborn spills, glass scraper can be used without causing damage to the top. Rinse thoroughly to remove any residue which will likely diminish the shine of the countertop.

    I sure hope 409 is ok--it's what I've been using. I stopped using a nice smelling organic orange cleaner after I read it was chemically incompatible.

    Ah, better living through chemistry!

  • lbsea
    Original Author
    14 years ago

    Windex was one of the things the "fix it" guys tried using to fix the acetone can rings first. It didn't work and now I realize they may have further ruined the surface of the countertop. Refinishing the countertops on site is a mess I've heard. Who knows whether it would be done properly.

    I'll be talking to the countertop store to insist they replace all the countertops.

    I've been without a kitchen sink since early June!

    Thanks for telling me the product is reliable.

  • fleur222
    14 years ago

    I have been following this thread as my Caesarstone countertops were to go in today. I forewarned even my boys (in case they saw someone else like company) that no fingernail polish remover could be used on the countertop. I had a nightmare with the cabinet installation, and am still on edge. Imagine when I looked over and saw a large can with the word "ACETONE" written on it sitting on my new countertop during the install. I freaked out, removed the can and told the installer that it was not supposed to be used on Caesarstone. He said they ALWAYS use it to clean up the epoxy and to wipe down the countertops, even use it in the stone yard at times on the slabs. I phoned the caesarstone company right away and luckily, was able to speak to someone.
    The answer was, it is ok! Let him use it to clean the epoxy, because he is trained! I shouldn't ever use it, however! Can you imagine! His explaination further was to say that a brief wipe of it will cause no damage, but if it sat in a puddle for awhile, it could.
    I allowed them to use it, but even the installer feels unsure now. When he left, he said he plans to check it out further. Me too, because I kept thinking maybe that little bit would cause a decrease in sheen or something.
    Secondly, I think one seam is okay and the other too yellow. My countertop is more ecru/grey. I told the installer, but he said that he could not match it any better. I am just going to ask the stone company tomorrow. Otherwise, it looks great!

  • lbsea
    Original Author
    14 years ago

    I'm really glad you were on top of things when you saw the acetone can. I'll be anxious to hear how you like your new countertops. Seams are always so tricky.

    I wonder if I'm the only one that has had an issue with acetone splotching or if the caesarstone slab I got was faulty. I don't remember the can sitting in one place too long while they were installing.

    Tomorrow, the countertop store is sending out someone to try to get the marks out. I told them this was it. I wanted the countertop replaced after this effort proves to be unsuccessful which I know it will be.

    I'll keep everyone posted.

  • fleur222
    14 years ago

    Good luck with it tomorrow! I almost ordered Raven color too. I read that there is a 2009 best kitchen display in New York now with Raven Caesarstone countertops. It is going to be beautiful!

  • biochem101
    14 years ago

    I'm tempted to go take a photo of the gel electrophoresis unit I splashed with acetone so you could see what looks like a rough white 'burn mark' across a clear acrylic box. It was so pretty before I did that! :(

    But it occurs to me that we have access to full strength and probably the public, including your contractor, is buying 90/10? I don't know that for sure but I know 90/10 is sold. It might be slightly more dilute than mine.

    Acetone evaporates extremely quick so a quick swipe with a dampened rag should disappear right off the counter. It's the puddle and the bottle sitting that could be a problem. And you particularly mention the can outline.

    Not that I would recommend ANY bottles of solvents or strong cleaning agents be let sit. I had an almost full bottle of Mr. Clean (the degreaser one) spring a leak on me last night. I sprayed the ceramic stove top and was wiping it down when I looked over and the bottle was literally sitting in an ever expanding puddle! My own 'chemical spill' at home. It was quite a mess to deal with before it got on everything.

    I would keep going over the counter, with RxDoctor even though it's not totally stone this is a safe product for it. Then drying it good and see if the marks disappear. My quartz had these large circular marks you could only see from certain angles when it first came in. They appeared to be from some sort of clamps that had been holding it. It was also December and an ice storm so the counter was VERY cold.

    When it warmed up somewhat I kept polishing those marks over and over until they went away. It took a few days I recall. Is your can mark getting any fainter with time?

  • lbsea
    Original Author
    14 years ago

    I've never heard of RxDoctor but it would be interesting to try it.

    The good news (or bad if you've been without a kitchen sink and dishwasher for 6 weeks like I have) is the countertop company agrees with me that the Raven countertops must be removed and replaced with new Raven countertops. They will be out the first of next week to do a new template with removal and installation happening at the beginning of the following week.

    I get a full 10 days to use the Raven countertop I currently have before the tear out. I'm not going to be afraid to put it through the paces.

    Thanks again for your suggestions and reassurance.

  • blondelle
    14 years ago

    I was at a cooking demo at the best kitchen display and had a while to look at the counter as I was sitting and eating at the island. I didn't like the way food looked against it. It seemed rather drab and the woman sitting next to me agreed. It's a dark warm gray. I just wish it was a bit darker. I didn't like it against their white cabinets either. Black, black is too harsh, but the Raven looked dull to me ;-(. They have a new mottled dark gray from Caesarstone with a lot of depth that's stunning and was used in the kitchen of the HGTV green house. I would look at that one too if you have time.

  • bmorepanic
    14 years ago

    I am happy for you to get a good resolution - not that the problem happened to begin with or the delay.

  • lbsea
    Original Author
    14 years ago

    Thanks for the Smoky Ash Caesarstone suggestion. I really like Raven. I have a huge amount of light that comes into my kitchen and Raven floats my boat.

    A new template was done today. One more week and I'll be able to get the sink plumbing done (Grohe Bridgeford faucet with lever handles and side spray -ORB) and the dishwasher (Miele) delivered.

  • lbsea
    Original Author
    14 years ago

    The old (new) Raven countertops have been removed and the new Raven countertops were installed. I can't believe I'm saying this, but there was a problem with one of the pieces. I can't believe it. More splotches but this time it was done during the fabrication I believe. Still 6 installer visits later and 8 weeks without a working kitchen sink!

    I'm really wondering if the product is of poor quality. The installer thinks the manufacturer is going to pull Raven off the market.

    Anyone else having this problem?

  • susanlynn2012
    9 years ago

    It seems in the year 2015 someone is also having a problem with the Raven Caesarstone Countertop. I am posting here since this link was mentioned in the other thread and maybe others will share that have this countertop. I do like the way it looks. Maybe then this thread will be brought up for more people to see.

  • susanlynn2012
    9 years ago

    2015 Thread about Raven Caesarstone Countertop Splotch link below.

  • Rosalie Carter
    7 years ago

    I just replaced one of my cultured marble sink in the bathroom, that has been in the home for 15 years - in mint condition, with quartz. I was told it was indestructible and so far I am not impressed. I had chipping problem with the pencil edge, they rounded then edges today. I saw him cleaning up with acetone and so I googled it and that is how I got to read all these concerns. It sounds like quartz is another counter top you have to babysit. I have corian in my kitchen with a sharp edge. It is 15 years old and other then a few scratches it is perfect. I will pay for a person to buff it and it will be good as new. I set hot pans on it glue, nail polish remover and use anything I have to clean it. I love it and will not be replacing after reading about all these concerns. Ugggh!!

  • HU-38121100
    5 years ago

    I am dealing with The company name World Granite and Marble Countertops & Cabinets. They installed quartz countertops in my home. There are white splotches on different parts on the countertops and lots of spot stains all over. I called the company I spoke to Miss Clara and she advised for me to buy soft scrub and clean it. I did. Noting happened. On Feb 4th, 2019, she told me that they are going to pull my countertops. Never showed up. Feb 13, 2019. The owner of the company, came by my home, inspected the countertops and said that his men will be out on the 14th of Feb, 2019 and try to polish it and if that doesn't work, they are going to replace it. Didn't happen. Feb 28, 2019, a rep from the quartz company and the owner came out to my home. They inspected the countertops again. The owner said that his installers used acetone on the countertops but they never had a problem before. They give me two options. They are going to replace the bar top and try to take the stains off the rest of the countertops or I pay an additional 750.00 dollars for them to replace it with granite, which is cheaper. Help!

  • jad2design
    5 years ago

    Quartz seems to be very popular at the moment, but it does sound kind of delicate to me. It would make me crazy to have to worry whenever I put a bottle of Windex down. So, if it were me I would at least take a look at granites. But, if you do, be sure to bring a cabinet drawer with you to check against the slabs. My sister had a harder time finding a granite that complimented her cherry cabinets fhan she thought she would. I think the real advantage of Raven caesarstone is that it is very neutral and will go with any number of cabinet finishes. Re granite, my sister has sealed it once in ten years ( a super easy job) and it looks flawless. Imprevious to everything.