Below is my updated plan. Not a whole lot has changed but let me provide a run down.

- Pantry expanded. I thought a lot about entering the pantry from the hall, or having a walk through pantry, and we think this simple design works best for us.

- Swaped the fridge and oven to create a prep/cooking zone on one side of the kitchen and a baking zone on the other.

- After a lot of thought, we are okay with the distance from the prep area to the pantry. A lot of the food we cook is fresh and comes out of the fridge and we are fine with going to the pantry for the canned/packaged items.

- Much of the pantry contents are baking supplies (I have about 10 kinds of flour) so it made more sense to have the pantry near the ovens. We are willing to have the fridge further away and don't want to have additional fridge drawers as then we would just be confused as to where everything is.

- The extra chair to the left of the island will be space under the island for a chair, but in reality there won't be a fifth chair, it is room for a high chair when needed. (I'm pregnant with our first and we hope to have one more).

- Also, I doubt we will have a trash compactor, so the trash/recycying pullout will either be where the TC is located now, or the dashed line showing recycling (we only need one spot for both). Which do you think is the right location?

I've tried to circle zones, and also draw work paths to illustrate my thought process, though one thing I'm not certain about, given the current plan where would you store dishes?

The appliances in our kitchen will be: 36" induction stovetop, two dishwashers, 42" french door fridge, oven/microwave single unit (no double oven).

I've also posted my entire floor plan to building forum, and the link is below.

Where would I store dishes? in dish drawers in the island facing the sink and dishwashers. (Great to have two dishwashers!) I think I would find this super convenient.

I think you will love the narrow shelves in the pantry to the right of the door as you go in.

The biggest concern I would have with this if it were mine is the rather crowded cooking space to the left of the range. Personally, I would like at least 30'' between the fridge and the range if possible. Looks like you have about 24'' on each side. I would give thought to moving the range to the right six inches. You will still have the L-shaped area on the right which is pretty large.

I hope you had fun with this. Looks as if it was time well spent.

It is slightly hilarious that I have all this space and then the cooktop and fridge end up squished together like that! The original reason I put the oven there and the fridge across the room was so because the oven takes up less space, but of course, that is before I thought about zones and workspaces!

I think (hope) that this picture has the wrong stove on it, I think it might be a 42" range and not a 36" stove top, if so that would give me the extra space you mention, but you are right, if not I'll move it over six inches.

Regarding dishes, it is really the glasses I'm uncertain about where to store. I've seen photos of them in drawers, but I'm not sure how it would work in reality. Oh, and I'd never heard of two dishwashers before I found GW, and now I think it is the best idea ever, for a multitude of reasons. One, we tend to have family over regularly, which involves dinner/drinks for at least 18 people, and two, we are just messy disorganized people, so having a place to put dirty dishes before we have had a change to unload the most recent load will help tremendously!

I like the new plan and think you have a great work area, with the fridge, prep sink and range. I like your baking area, too :)

As for dishes, i think drawers are the best solution! :)

I can't remember from your other post what your rationale was for having the separate baking area to the right of the sink. Perhaps you are a multiple-cook kitchen? If so, that layout with baking and cooking separated may make sense.

But, in my experience, baking is most convenient near the stove/range and the fridge. You might consider moving your clean up, TC, and dish storage to the right of the main sink area. That way, one person could be cleaning up to the right of the main sink while another person is baking or cooking to the left of the main sink. You could even put both dishwashers to the right of the sink? I've never seen anyone do this before. So perhaps there is a strong functional reason to flank the sink with the dishwashers. Moving them both to the right would free up more prep/cooking/baking space between the main sink and the rangetop. This is the run of counter were almost all cooking/baking gets done, in my experience.

Are you concerned that the microwave is so far from the refrigerator and main cooking/prep area? Have you considered putting the microwave in the island?

I agree with your logic regarding the stove and oven being better close to each other, however are also suggesting that I move the ovens over (as there isn't space) or just that I should create more prep space between the main sink and stovetop?

Regarding the microwave, I honestly don't use it that much with the induction stovetop as we find it easy to reheat on the stovetop (and the food tastes better that way) and will be fine with it being across the kitchen.

As for moving the dishwasher both the right of the sink, how does that create more prep space?

Additional thoughts:
I would put glasses in the wall cabs nearest the sink. Either side--probably the side that I would usually use when going to the dining area. The dishes could go in drawers on the sink wall, but somehow the island seems to me perfect for that. Easy enough to move them if you change your mind.

I find I need the trash close to prep area, not to clean up. I put our trash pullout in the island beside the prep sink and that works very well indeed. It is still close to the cleanup sink, but right where I can take veggie peels and such out of the prep sink and just drop them in the trash without dripping across floors and counters.

FWIW: Are you familiar with the drawer microwaves? I noticed that francoise suggested you consider one. That has been another immensely good purchase for me. It is beside the prep sink on the corner closest to the fridge. Hugely convenient. My DH, who was critical of the idea, loves it. So much stuff that goes into the MW also needs sink and fridge visits. Almost nothing that goes into the MW needs baking center work. I can send you pics if that would be useful.
Sandra

In truth, I don't know what ergonomics issues you would face if you had the two dishwashers side by side. But perhaps there is an issue there. You might want to think about how you would use both dishwashers. Are you imagining that you would mostly use both on an everyday basis? Or, would you use both once a week or so when you have a larger group for dinner? Or, would one be for pots and pans (then it makes sense for that dishwasher to be near the cooking area) and the other for plates and glasses? I agree that it would be awesome to have two dish washers!

I think it is fine to keep the wall oven outside the main cooking/baking zone. In some ways it is even preferable. That way no one has to move over or step aside when you open the oven door.

I would not put the DWs side by side. That puts one of them dripping distance from the sink. Don't want that.

I don't think range top and oven need to be close. I can't remember if you have a range top or a range with oven. Either way, I personally wouldn't find it a problem to have the oven the item furthest out of the Sink/Fridge/Range triangle.

When it comes to baking, I usually make only one or two trips to the fridge to assemble all the cold ingredients I will need. Same with other ingredients from wherever they are stored. Access to the oven and a nice wide counter area is the most necessary element, and you have that either on the island or in the oven corner.

And thanks for letting me ''play house'' in your kitchen-to-be.
Sandra

I am very excitted about my two DWs, though DH is still skeptical! I expect them both to be used very often as I put nearly everything in the dishwasher, I think the only things I leave out are my cutting boards and knives. I expect them both to be used regularly, and at least once during the week I'm sure dirty dishes will be going into DW #2 before I have time to take the clean dishes out of DW #1!

When I first saw the drawer MW I thought I wanted one, but then I counted how often we use it and I'm not sure it is necessary, though, I am still keeping it in mind! We will see if there is an increase in MW use when our baby comes in a few months! :)

Our range top is (or will be) a 36" induction stovetop, and I hope to have drawer storage underneath.

Great point about the dripping if the DW were side by side, my current kichen has the trash pullout between the sink and dishwasher and just that little bit of dripping space is quite annoying.

Maybe you can help me think through something regarding trashplacement... We need space for three types of garbage: recycling (we don't seperate) compost and garbage. How would you set up a kitchen such as this to comfortably fit all three?

The trash could be in the island behind the DW, or.... (I'm up for suggestions).

Do you have any suggestions for how to fix this concern?

If you rarely use your MW, how about keeping it in the pantry? It would be good to add an outlet or two in there just in case.

Check the clearance on your island for seating on the curve. Generally it's recommended to have 2' per seat; we have less and people on the end usually scoot out to the sides a bit. Not a big deal, just an FYI.

Can you eliminate the short wall to the left of the fridge, and just have a fridge cabinet with finished panels on the side of the fridge? That's what we have and it saved us a few inches. Yes it's just a few inches, but I'm glad to have them for counter/cabinet space rather than wall.

One idea to consider is to have your trash pullout in the island in the lower right corner, pulling out toward the sink run. That way you can stand at the island next to the prep sink to prep, and toss scraps in the trash which would be to your left. For cleanup, you'd just turn from the sink to scrape, turn again to put in DW.

Then where your TC is currently noted on your plan, that could be dish drawers or some other kind of storage. (Maybe towels there since it's near the sink.)

That would give you a lot larger prep area, across from the range with better access to the prep sink. And, it would keep your clean up area from being so tight...even with the two dishwashers. Then, you could have a trash on the island, by the prep sink.

Also, people at the island wouldn't have their back to the party, but to the baking area. They could look at the cook, turn and look at the view, or turn and look at the other people in the dining/living areas...and that view. Just an idea :)

From Cottage house plans

I would choose pullouts low enough to allow a drawer above in both cases.

As I was typing this, it occurred to me that I would have liked a pull down door with a slide out tube and a receptacle outside for recyclables. I can't think of any way to do this that wouldn't be ugly, but it would be nice not to give up precious inside counter space.

Aha, an idea that might work. Dingy, probably, but FWIW: what about a narrow double-sided (surely these are available!) pull out trash bin in the cabs on the back wall in the pantry. Dump glass and other recyclables in on the pantry side. Remove the filled bin on the mudroom/laundry side and take it out through the garage.

Sandra

I also love GW kitchen forum for the thoughtful and helpful answers. The wise words written here give me fuel for my fight for a better DIY kitchen.

Good luck with your kitchen design. I'm sure it will be great with the help here.

Yeona

But, I really like lavender lass's idea except that you want to look out your spectacular windows as you sit at the island.

Could you make the island 8 or 9 feet long (leaving 2' for cabs and 3' to 4' for passage by the windows and wrap the sitting area around the top end? It could then come down as far as you might want, and the end closest to the windows could still be cabs all the way across. And you and DH could still sit on the end and enjoy the view.

Hey, I'm outta here.

Regarding the MW, I think we are getting a single unit that is a convection MW and oven, so that really solves that problem. We don't use it often, but I'd still like it in the kitchen. That said, I do have extra outlets going in the pantry for my breadmaker and a few other items that I may just leave there instead of carrying in and out ;)

Regarding the island, I know the seating is a bit tight, I'll probably play around with that a bit as we get closer to buying the cabinets. We do have 4' wide aisles (I mis-spoke above where I said 3'6") so there is some leeway. Also for conversation I wouldn't mind having seating on two full sides, but I need to wait and figure out storage before making that decision.

As for removing the wall, there will actually be a bit of an "entrance" to the kitchen that frames everything, so we can't remove it. Something like this, minus the wood

or maybe like this?

It may make sense to do something similar and then put compost elsewhere (first time composter here). I HATE corner storage and have seen some corrner garbage units - what do you think about one in this space, that could fit all three. I think I do need the recycling in a convienent location within the kitchen though.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by a "pull down door with slide out tube"

Oh, and I had to google what FWIW stood for! :) ha

As I want to keep at least a few chairs facing the window, I could do something like this (excuse the quick cut/copy job as this isn't exact)

Sideways island/continent: What you drew is pretty much what I meant for the island based on LL's idea. I would stop the seating on the left side about 2 feet from the front and run drawers along the whole front of it. (What great storage that will be!) Then put the trash to the left of the prep sink as someone suggested. Just be sure you can reach to the center of this to clean. I think it is great use of your large space.

Lazy susans: I hated HATED the corner lazy susan I had before. I couldn't reach things. It didn't hold much. It was ugly. Stuff fell off. When the shelves finally collapsed on themselves, I blessed it and left it alone.

But here on GW I read about super susans. Read about them and that is what I have. (There have been a lot of posts about them) My local cabinet makers had never seen one, certainly never installed one. They were impressed.

I LOVE it. Two-shelf kidney-shaped super susan. I can store really big stuff and lots of it: Top shelf has a sous vide supreme, a vacuum sealer, a food processor, and part of the Vitamix.
Bottom shelf holds a 6 qt. nesco roaster, the other part of the Vitamix, a large electric tea kettle, and my mixer and bowls. Almost none of these could have been fitted in the space between the pole and the edge in my old susan.
Because there is about 1 1/2'' of clearance between the susan and the sides of the cabinet, I slide my cookie sheets and stove top grill in and they lean vertically out of the way, freeing the tray cabinet for other use.
All of these are big bulky items that are used somewhat infrequently. It is perfect for my needs.

And you can have two of these in otherwise inaccessible space! Use one for small appliances, one for seldom used cookware--stock pots and the like.
Perfect. You'll love it, I promise. No comparison to the center post susans.

This is the one I have:

I actually have a super susan now, and I don't love it the way others do. I have tons of small appliances in there, but I hope to move them all to the pantry. Also, I have two corners so I may get creative with one.

What about this for garbage?

2 trash/compost/recycling areas in such a large kitchen would be helpful.

1 DW in the island would make cleanup a breeze (use it for your pots and things used in prep as they will be stored by the stove when clean anyway)

I don't know the name of the ''pull down door with slide out tube'' I had in mind for recycling. A sliding or pull down door maybe 6 x 12 in an exterior wall with a chute outside leading to a receptacle for bottles and such. Kinda like an old-time laundry chute? It would get such space eaters out of the kitchen proper. But the door in the wall would be ugly from inside. Not a doable idea, I think.

Have fun.

I could do the corner garbage thingy and then have a seperate compost under the prep sink, since most of what would be thrown out there would be compost....

I can't picture how it would look to put the sink off center that way, my immediate reaction is that the asymmetry makes me feel a bit uncomfortable, but that doesn't mean it is necessarily wrong! :)

However, regarding what you said about trash/recycling, while I see the use of two, I'm not sure I want to give up the cabinet space. When the sink is centered on the wall it is my corner option above may work well.

Laura- I think it would still work, even with the sink centered under the main window. Put the dishwashers on each side and maybe have a small compost/trash area, under the sink. Then the larger one could go by the prep sink, across from the range.

This island seems like less of a 'bottle neck' for the main sink. It seemed a little too tight (at least to me) in the original plan, but this seems much more open and friendlier, too. Must be the stool seating on two sides :)

I think the corner recycling unit is a very good idea. But yes, at least for me, most of the refuse from the prep sink is recyclable, although there is a fair amount of glass, plastic, and paper, also. Really, this is where just about all of the kitchen waste is generated.

And did I say I really like the larger island. Much better use of space. But keep drawers across the front facing the sink.

And I prefer the sink centered in the window and at the same time centered with the island. Not necessary, but pleasing. Although the poster is correct that with a sink centered in front of one of the side windows, someone at the sink would not block the view from the island seats.

Not sure how increasing the size of the island reduces the bottle ECL thoug...

Regarding the garbage I think I just talked myself into a solution with the corner unit!

I am going to try prepping in my kitchen further from the garbage and see how I feel walking a bit to put the extra stuff away. In my mind I was really thinking of a replacement for my garbage disposal than all the rest of the kitchen trash.... Oh so many decisions and I haven't even selected cabinets! Ha

I like having the extra two seats on the side of the island, and I will probably make that change. Though, it was previously exactly the size as a piece of pre cut granite for an island, and I shudder to think what the slab would cost instead! Oh well, at that size maybe I can deal with a seam...

Dishes and cutlery will be in the island facing the sink, and I will figure out glasses a little later.... Maybe some in drawers.

This Is a silly question, but where would you have the toaster and coffee maker in this set up?

Idea: how about making a ''beverage center'' (this idea has grown on me as I typed this post. It may be a keeper!) on the shortish counter between the stove and the fridge. The coffee maker could be on the counter there, and glasses for drinks, and other stuff for beverages could be stored in the cabinets there. The area is close to the fridge. You could house tea and coffee in the drawers or upper cabs. It is close to water in the prep sink.

Personally, I don't like the appearance of ''Appliance Garages'', and I don't think appliances sitting on this counter would bother me very much, but they would on your wonderful window wall counter. They won't be very visible here from the end seating on the island.

Toast? You CAN store a toaster in a cabinet near the island seating. Or, you can put it on the counter in the ''beverage center''. That's a pretty good idea, too. (And you can call it the ''breakfast center'')
However, I just bought a Breville Toaster Oven which I really, really like. I like it enough that it can sit on the counter beside my fridge. It toasts toast much better than any toaster I ever had, bakes scones, biscuits, and such wonderfully with much less heat than my main oven. That is about all I have used it for, but there are threads here about the usefulness of these small ovens for other baking and broiling. It really does seem to work as a small second oven.

I think there would be room for a Breville Toaster Oven, maybe one of the smaller ones, in the new ''beverage center.'' It easily toasts six slices of toast at once, much more evenly than my old toaster, which really wasn't that old. But the old toaster is sitting by the carport door on it's way home with whoever admires it, replaced by the much more useful Breville. Wish I had known about it during my remodel.

Of course, if you don't want me to get my Breville commission for selling an oven, you could just put your old toaster on the counter in the ''Beverage.Breakfast Center.'' This is all GW's fault for talking about Brevilles, you know.

Seriously, in your kitchen, I really like the idea of a ''beverage center'' to the right of the fridge. And with the island and the area to the right of the range, you have LOTS of prep space.
Good night, Laura
Sandra

I had never heard of a beverage center before GW either, and I think it is an excellent idea! My original plan called for the fridge to be next to the pantry and the space next to the fridge to be a beverage/breakfast center where the coffee maker would also live. With that plan the storage space for glasses would have been in a another nearby upper cabinet, that was before I was schooled in kitchen zones and convinced to move the fridge next to the stove! :) I see that is best now, though I miss the idea of the extra space I gained by having the fridge on its own wall.... I keep having to remind myself this plan will be much more workable and convenient.

I wasn't sure if I would still have room for a beverage center between the fridge and stovetop given the space limitations in that corner.... hmm... It would be great to have a spot that has the breakfast foods (breads, cereal that sort of thing) near the fridge so that we aren't going into the pantry everyday.

As for the toaster oven, I don't think I can handle another appliance! :) ha. We have a very sleek stainless steel toaster from some Germany brand that I can deal with on the counter (It's been there for the past 3 years, so I'm getting used to it!). ;)

I now need to go back and re-read the old posts that berated me into understanding that the fridge HAD to be near the stove so that I can shed the wishful thinking of having all that space near my fridge on the other side of the kitchen!

Today we just needed to confirm our plumbing and electrical was in the right place for the plan! :)

A small vineyard is a great idea. Have you ever done anything like this before? Will you be taking care of the grapes yourself or have a gardener come in and do it for you? Whatever you decide...consider a pergola for seating...overlooking the grapes. Very appropriate for your style of home and it will give you a little shade for seating...and maybe grow some eating grapes...or even wisteria/roses/etc. Very romantic :)

On the post with the entire plan you can see the front elevation. In front of the kitchen there will be a covered porch, and in the upstairs bonus room a large balcony (smaller in the current drawing), it will be 13x8.

As for the vineyard, first time for us! No idea how we will accomplish it yet, though those details are all up in the air! We will figure it out once we move in! :)

Daydreaming has to be the reward for all the hassles of building a new house or remodeling an old one.
Sandra

My suggestions/comments/questions:
1. Definitely put a garbage near your prep sink. Ideally in the island and such that you just open a drawer and sweep your trash in. We actually have two pullout trashes on opposite sides of our kitchen b/c it is so long (about 20 feet) and it is so nice. One is tall and narrow near the prep area, the other is smaller and a double bin for recycling too. As far as compost goes, you will want to take it out regularly so you don't need a giant garbage can. A small pail with a lid is more like it.

2. I like the island more "turned" as Lavender originally suggested and people have played with. IMO, I'd make it a curved triangle. You just don't want it so big that there are parts of it you can't reach from any side. Or if you leave it how cam suggested, only put 4 chairs - 2 and 2. It looks like you have plenty of space for a high chair in several places. You'll make it fit.

3. What side of the sink do you like to prep on? I have always prepped to the left of a sink. Make sure you are comfortable with whatever set up you decide on. In your original drawing, you didn't have much contiguous prep space with the sink almost in the middle (and it was on the right, further from the fridge). I think cam's suggestion of putting the sink in the corner of the island is a good one. Prep is usually fridge to (counter space) to sink to stove. This makes that part of the work triangle excellent and makes filling up pots with water to put on the stove easy too. Prep is like 70% of the time spent in the kitchen. You don't want to be doing it in a cramped little space in such an otherwise large kitchen. I can't remember the exact numbers but I think it's suggested to have 30'' of continuous space for prepping.
HTH (Hope that helps. I had to look up a lot of acronyms when I first started using GW too.) The advice you'll find here is excellent though.

Oh, and not to throw a wrench in it, have you given any thought to where you are going to work on a computer? I know everyone down on desks in kitchens these days, but as a mom of little ones, I find my desk in the kitchen invaluable. It is a little bit away from all the kitchen cabinets so desk messes down wander but I no longer get to my desk in the basement as often (sometimes not for days) and would be miserable without my computer and desk in the kitchen. As a mommy the kitchen is your new office (regardless of if you are a stay-at-home mom) and you'll spend a lot of time there. Just something to think about knowing you are expecting and want more than one child.