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Island depth concerns- 12' depth wall cabinets as base

skeetie219
14 years ago

We are close to finalizing plans.. I really need some feedback from all you pros on here...so here is my problem. I have a narrow kitchen 25' x 12'. I was planning on doing an L shape with an island. since I had a two tier island in another home-which worked very well for us I wanted to do something similar. As a matter of fact, I'm using the same kitchen guy- so he gets me and my taste. Since I told him I wanted to do the two tier island - he suggested using a 12" depth wall cabinet as my island base, which i know sometime wall cabinets can be used as base etc... my concern is would a 12"depth base be enough space to do so on it. I don't want it to look like a cafeteria. The initial length is about 9' which is a bit long for me but I can scale that back with no problem.

If anyone has pics of 12"depth islands I would really appreciate seeing and getting other feedback in generals.

Thanks everyone... I learn something new from this blog everyday.

Comments (21)

  • rubyfig
    14 years ago

    Do you mean 2 rows of 12" deep cabinets as the island? Sorry, I just can't see that as very useful but maybe I am missing something.

  • scootermom
    14 years ago

    Can you be more specific about how the island will be constructed? i.e. 24" base cabs for lower part + 12" base cabs for higher part + 12" overhang for seating? Tiskers' kitchen has a peninsula like that and it looks wonderful to me. Or is it something else?

    A simple drawing or two would be helpful as well -- I am a bit concerned that you mean 12" base cabs for both the lower part and the upper part -- that wouldn't make sense to me! I'd be interested to see your layout (my kitchen is about 9' wide, but we are considering adding a few feet to the width). So thanks and good luck.

  • tiskers
    14 years ago

    I don't know if this is exactly what you mean... but my peninsula/bar is bi-level and the upper (higher) part is resting on a base of 12" deep cabinets. It works beautifully. Check out our recent remodel (link below), and see if that helps you!

    Here is a link that might be useful: My finished kitchen thread

  • skeetie219
    Original Author
    14 years ago

    Good questions... tiskers that is what I trying to do but as an island... my problem is I don't really have the space for the regular base cabinets, my room isn't that wide or it would not give me enough clearance for another wall of cabinets...These questions are good for me..I need him to clarify what he is going to do for the upper tier of the island I had been so fixated on the lower portion ( and started to make myself crazy)... I know he wanted to use the "wall" 33" width x 12"depth cabinets on the lower portion. He was giving me three 33" x 12" as the base or the lower portion... so it would be long and narrow ( at least this is how I'm thinking) with the granite counter top an inch or so and then the upper tier with another 15 over hang. So it would measure 99"x 13-14" for the lower portion and the top tier would be 103" x 15" .I'll try to post a simple diagram. Thanks I really appreciate.

  • scootermom
    14 years ago

    Ooh. 13-14" is a pretty tiny work surface. I have a peninsula that is 20" and I couldn't imagine it being practical if it were much more shallow than that (of course, your stuff wouldn't fall off the back since you'd have the upper part of the island backing it).

    Do *you* think a 12" deep work surface would be useable -- is that what you've got now? Even though it's very long, I can't imagine it being a practical prep surface (for me -- YMMV). Is that what you'd use this island for -- prep?

    Besides the work surface, what about the cabinets themselves...Would that many 12" deep cabs be practical for storing everything you need to store?

    Honestly, using 12" deep base cabs for the lower part makes me concerned about the rest of the design...You mentioned needing to use shallow cabs for the island because "my room isn't that wide or it would not give me enough clearance for another wall of cabinets." Do you mean that you're going to have a wall of cabinets *behind* the upper level of the island, in addition to whatever's across from the island's lower level? Hmm. Stop me if I've misinterpreted your intent...but that sounds like a lot to squeeze into 12'.

  • Buehl
    14 years ago

    So...you're saying you'll have 12" cabinets on one side and then a raised counter 15" deep. Will the raised counter overhang the lower counter (I think it may have to....)?

    Considerations: Usefulness...I have to agree w/ScooterMom that you're talking about a very small work space...if there's an overhang from the upper counter, then you'll have 12" + 1-1/2" = 13-1/2" - 2" from raised = 11-1/2" of "clear" work space. If the overhang is more like 3", then you'll only have 10-1/2" of workspace. I suggest you mock it up and see what you think of it. Unfortunately I think it may give you somewhat of a "diner" or "cafeteria" look. I'd have to see it...
    Kitchen cabs & aisles...Your kitchen is 12' wide. If you have two runs of 24" deep cabinets/counters that leaves you with less than 10' got factor in not only the aisles & island but also the added space you'll need behind the seats b/c you'll have cabinets and possibly counters there. So,
    .....144" - 25-1/2" counters - approx 25" island - 25-1/2" counters behind seats = 68" for two aisles.

    If you have 36" b/w the front of the island (no seating) and the counters, that leaves 68" - 36" = 32" for the aisle behind the seats. You really need at least 48" and preferably 54". If that's also a major thoroughfare then you really should have a 60-inch aisle.


    I'm worried that you're trying to wedge an island into an area where one really won't fit. [I tried to do this and many people here tried to work it out for me....but I finally realized that an island is not appropriate for all kitchens...and my kitchen was one of those. My kitchen was 11' x 21' so it's close to the same dimensions as yours. I ended up w/a galley w/a small peninsula w/two seats...yours could do the same w/3 seats. It has worked wonderfully well for us and I'm glad now I didn't try to shoe-horn in an island... Of course, YMMV.]

    Do you have a large pantry elsewhere so you could eliminate the wall of cabinets (and counters?) behind the seats? That would make a huge difference!

    What would also help somewhat is if the cabinets behind the seats were only 12" deep and no counters (tall cabinets)...that would give you another 13" to play w/for the aisles.


    So, why was it so important that you get the second wall of cabinets instead of doing the "L" you had originally envisioned? Storage? Aesthetics? Or, were you planning an "L" plus the extra wall of cabinets?


    Could you post a layout for us to review and help you get what you want? There several people here that are good at critiquing designs & thinking "out of the box" to come up w/some creative designs.... I strongly encourage you to take advantage of the talent here!


    Good luck!

  • skeetie219
    Original Author
    14 years ago

    Scootermom/Buehl:
    I can't say it enough ...thanks. You guys completely validated my concerns... I will post the layout later today- I need to get my self to work in order to pay for this sweet little project. It should be posted this evening...

  • skeetie219
    Original Author
    14 years ago

    Here are my floor plans along with a not so good scanning of the narrow island but I also uploaded an draft from a different KD. She gave me the island just not a two tier- which I would be willing to compromise with. I do not want that "diner" look and I have a pennisula already. I really wanted something different from what we have already and do not want to move "mountains or walls" at this stage. At the same token, I don't want to try and fit a round peg in a square whole with this island issue and kick myself later. My kitchen guy is good and works with me and my ideas but at some point I'll need to sign off on something. BTW, I have 8ft ceilings and the soffits are a wild card as to whether or not I'll have 36 or 30 uppers.

    So if I did the photobucket thing correctly -pics should be. Right now cabinets are coming in at about 20K- amaretto glaze maple perimeter cabinets and chocolate cherry island.

    Here is a link that might be useful: http://photobucket.com/skeetie219

  • lascatx
    14 years ago

    I've always considered 13-14 feet to be the narrowest width to get 2 perimeter walls plus and island into a kitchen. I have 14', my island is 34" wide and my aisles are narrower than a lot of folks here would want.

    I'd be inclined to do a separate butcher block table/island that you could try, move or remove and I would have it end beside the fridge, not go behind it. I would never, ever try a dual level island that narrow.

  • malhgold
    14 years ago

    I agree with Lascatx. to get any decent depth island in there, I think you have to reduce the depth of those wall cabs. My kitchen is 13.5' wide. my island will be 41" deep, but my cabs behind the island are only 12" deep. I think if you want the island and want to keep the cabs behind the island at their current depth, you will have to eliminate the seating. Even then, i think it might look really long and skinny.

  • remodelfla
    14 years ago

    Everyone has said what I would say. Your space, with cabs on both walls cannot comfortably accomodate an island. I so understand trying to fit a design you have your heart set on into a space that's not meant for it. It took me more layouts that I want to admit before we (and I say we cause basically people on this forum figured it out for me) came up with a plan. Good luck!

  • lascatx
    14 years ago

    Looking at the layout again -- are you willing to consider a range and then reducing the depth of the wall of tall cabinets, which would then all be storage?

  • skeetie219
    Original Author
    14 years ago

    lascatx: I have already purchase my rangetop- albeit a good deal.So I'm pretty married to my appliances since I have purchased almost all of them. I'm ok with working around them at this point...Thanks for you and the others for the feedback- it really does help... here is my scenerio: me and my DH leave and die by that counter-top breakfast nook- whatever you want to call it space.... as I mentioned I had the two tier counter which I loved at our other home, but I'm slowly getting it through my thick head I don't see how it could work and look nice in this house. Since we do not have childern(only two golden retrievers who act like kids)and we both work - get home late and eat late etc that high counter area was nice to sit at. It was just an easier place to convene. So...At this point, I'm probably leaning toward the pennisula layout and seeing if I can come up with some details on it.
    Lets wait to see who else weighs in here and I'll keep everyone posted here.

  • skeetie219
    Original Author
    14 years ago

    what are your thoughts on this idea before I succumb to the penisula and I re read the feedback. Haven't talked to the kitchen guy yet but here are a few new possibilities..#1 I can have the cabinets on the behind the island made into 18' bases. I need those cabinet because I have a double wall oven and really do not want to extend the cabinets into the eating area. I was planning to buy a furniture piece(hutch) for the adjacent wall.
    #2 see if we can use 18 or 21' bases for the island and make it a flat island with an area to put two benches. I found a kitchen on FKB with an 18" island. I believe the kitchen room size was similar to mine if not the same size...Thoughts/feedback?

    Here is a link that might be useful: aptosca 18

  • mountaineergirl
    14 years ago

    I just kind of scanned thru the other responses so forgive me if someone has already asked this - but why are you set on a two-tiered island? if it was all the same level, it would be plenty of working space and if someone wanted to sit and eat there you could still manage to make room. There are 2 different bar stool heights so you get the shorter ones. I just think if you don't have enough room to work on the shorter side, you've wasted that space after all. JMHO!

    Oh and I looked at that kitchen with the 18" island and I think it looks kind of skinny. Maybe if it wasn't as long it wouldn't look so skinny. Pretty kitchen though.

  • skeetie219
    Original Author
    14 years ago

    I just wanted the island- always wanted one. In our previous home when I did the kitchen remodel I wanted an island and went with a penisula and although we loved eating from the counterside of the penisula ( which was a two tier) there seemed to be a alot of empty space in the kitchen- probablty too many steps from my range to the sink. So the island is get something I wanted however my DH is having a cow it probably want give us much room.
    Thanks for weighing in the island pic...

  • Buehl
    14 years ago

    Bottom line:

    You will need 25.5" for each wall cabinet run (24" cabinet + 1.5" counter overhang)...since you already have the appliances (including DOs) you're locked in to that depth on both sides if you put them in the approx locations in your original layout.

    You need a minimum of 36", preferably 42" for each aisle b/w counters...whether b/w wall runs or island & wall run.

    For a galley (i.e., no island), you really should have a 48" aisle since all the traffic + kitchen work will happen in one space.

    So...

    No island, the minimum width of the kitchen should be:
    .....Minimum aisle and no traffic: 25.5" + 36" + 25.5" = 87" (7'3")
    .....For ideal aisle of 48" or Traffic b/w island & one run of cabinets: + 12" = 99" (8'3")

    Island w/24" cabinet only (no seating):
    .....Minimum aisle and no traffic: 25.5" + 36" + 28" + 36" + 25.5" = 151" (12'7")
    .....For one ideal aisle of 42" or Traffic b/w island & one run of cabinets: + 6" = 157" (13'1")
    .....For two ideal aisles of 42" or Traffic b/w island & one or two runs of cabinets: + 6" + 6" = 163" (13'7")

    Island w/18" cabinet only (no seating):
    .....Minimum aisle and no traffic: 25.5" + 36" + 22" + 36" + 25.5" = 145" (12'1")
    .....For one ideal aisle of 42" or Traffic b/w island & one run of cabinets: + 6"" = 151" (12'7")
    .....For two ideal aisles of 42" or Traffic b/w island & one or two runs of cabinets: + 6" + 6" = 157" (13'1")

    Island w/24" cabinet, seating on one side, & minimum aisle (36" b/w non-seating side of island and other wall):
    .....With run of cabinets behind the seats and no traffic or counter behind seats: 25.5" + 36" + 40.5" + 48" + 25.5" = 175.5" (14'7.5")
    .....With run of cabinets behind the seats and either traffic or counter behind the seats (but not both): 25.5" + 36" + 40.5" + 54" + 25.5" = 181.5" (15'1.5")
    .....With run of cabinet behind the seats and traffic and counter behind the seats: 25.5" + 36" + 40.5" + 60" + 25.5" = 187.5" (15'7.5")
    .....With ideal aisles: 25.5" + 42" + 40.5" + 60" + 25.5" = 193.5" (16'1.5")


    If you have only one wall run of cabinets, you can subtract about 2' off each of the above measurements...


    Now, some questions...

    (1) Where does the door lead that's to the left of the range? Is it used a lot?

    (2) The door on the long wall w/the oven cabinets...does it lead to the DR? Is the DR used a lot?

    (3) The open area at the opposite end of the kitchen from the range....is that the Den/Family Room?


    When everyone was working on my kitchen, a comment was made that a kitchen that's 11' or 12' wide is more difficult to work with than one that's 9' or 14' wide. The 11' or 12' wide kitchen it too narrow for an island and too wide for the traditional Galley w/a 4' aisle b/w the cabinet runs. So far, no one has disproved this...


    whew! A lot of #s!!!

  • skeetie219
    Original Author
    14 years ago

    Buehl would you believe I understood all the island measurement statements...
    1) Where does the door lead that's to the left of the range? Is it used a lot?
    The doorway leads to laundry room then another door leads to the attached garage. As soon as you get enter the laundry rm to the left is a powder rm and the washer/dryer are directly behind the range... We use that entrance a majority of the time since we usually are parking the cars in the garage and enter into the kitchen

    (2) The door on the long wall w/the oven cabinets...does it lead to the DR? The door leads to the DR and not used as much but if I close that door off, I would be going all the around the other doorway and into my foyer to get into the DR. We have a colonial style- double foyer. When you enter the LR is on the right and DR on the left with stairs in the middle. Is the DR used a lot?

    (3) The open area at the opposite end of the kitchen from the range....is that the Den/Family Room? That would be the den, where we spend a lot of time. TV, FP with french doors that lead to a three season room etc

    I thought about closing off doorways - moving this or that but it just runs into so much work that I really want to stay away from it. Numbers don't lie that for sure... I appreciate your input. I could go with the penisula with a two tier eating area similar to what I did in our last home. That where everything seems to be pointing???

    BTW, what does b/w mean?

  • beekeeperswife
    14 years ago

    skeetie--I think b/w means between.

    My kitchen that we are currently working on, is also 12' wide. I have 2 24" base cabinets as my island. We put the island towards the end of the perimeter cabinets, this has really helped with the narrower than normal aisle clearance. The space near my sink and stove is wide open.

    Don't mind the insanity of the current state of the kitchen, and yes those are flowers on the island--it just needed a little something!

    {{!gwi}}

    {{!gwi}}

  • skeetie219
    Original Author
    14 years ago

    beekeeperswife: thanks for those pics....any more pics to share... i was considering that very option last night with my tape measure..no seating for your island correct? what is on the end of your island(opposite end of the range)is it a table area?
    i would have the island set down further toward my patio doors... I don't need a 8-9' island but 6-7 I would be happy with. If I could just get it passed the doorway to the left of the wall oven...but will it look off?

  • bmorepanic
    14 years ago

    {{!gwi}} Really terrible wireframe drawing.