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big kitchen advice need your thoughts on a 22.5ft run of counter

Posted by jen11k (My Page) on
Thu, Jul 24, 14 at 14:37

in the 22 ft counter will be the cleanup sink (maybe double) with one or two dishwashers, maybe the double wall ovens will be at the end if we don't get the big range. there will be three windows over the sink - can add another here.

i was trying to minimize upper cabinets but I need someplace to put the dishes from the dishwashers.

there will be the stove counter and 2 islands perpendicular to the long counter.


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: big kitchen advice need your thoughts on a 22.5ft run of coun

on the wall not in the attached picture will be the fridge plus entry to pantry and a small counter next to fridge


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RE: big kitchen advice need your thoughts on a 22.5ft run of coun

What are your goals and uses for this kitchen? How many people will be using it? Cooking for how many, etc.? This looks like a ridiculously large and inefficient space in terms of what I need. Maybe you have a reason for it, but larger is not always better.


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RE: big kitchen advice need your thoughts on a 22.5ft run of coun

lascat we are a family of 5 entertain a lot but still worried theres too much counter. what are other options?


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RE: big kitchen advice need your thoughts on a 22.5ft run of coun

In such a long run, what I would probably do is have a sink to the far right under a window for prep and a sink to the far left under a window for cleanup with a DW on each side of it. As it stands there are really long walks between everything.

The prep related things can be kept in upper cabinets to the far right and the dishes and such can go in the cabinets to the far left.

What are the islands for? right now they don't seem to have any function. Where is the refrigerator?

I can't really make the recommendations I did in the first paragraphs without knowing more about the full kitchen space and its relationship to the rest of the house.


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RE: big kitchen advice need your thoughts on a 22.5ft run of coun

I actually think I would want the prep sink on the island across from cook top. And in a kitchen this large, I WOULD go with cooktop and separate wall oven (double or combo with microwave/speed depending on your needs.) I would put that on the end closest to the cooktop and perhaps balance it with a tall wine fridge at the other end since you entertain frequently.

I would like to see the fridge wall and maybe a plan of the entire floor to get an idea for flow and really understand why the 2 islands. Will seating be at the one farther left in the above picture?

Dishes can go in drawers - in islands behind DW's or on run next to them (just make it easy to get to for table setting without crossing into cooking zone. I prefer glasses in uppers. If you do a wine fridge, store wine glasses near it, and I like to have everyday glasses near the fridge.


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RE: big kitchen advice need your thoughts on a 22.5ft run of coun

more picture detail


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RE: big kitchen advice need your thoughts on a 22.5ft run of coun

more picture detail


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RE: big kitchen advice need your thoughts on a 22.5ft run of coun

I would carve the space in half to start. Too large is worse than too small by a mile.


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RE: big kitchen advice need your thoughts on a 22.5ft run of coun

Can't see any picture detail and really don't know what you are wanting to accomplish so I can't make useful suggestions. I will tell you that my off the cuff reaction to this is that you are removing a wall to have a huge kitchen and you saw photos in magazines (or online) and want to copy the look of two islands and a big window at the sink. It doesn't feel like there is any thought yet to how the kitchen will function, and that should really be your starting point.

If I were you, before you go tearing down a wall (if that is the case) I would post the existing floor plan with adjoining rooms shown, let us know what works and what doesn't work, what you need and get suggestions for that -- with or without the wall.


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RE: big kitchen advice need your thoughts on a 22.5ft run of coun

I agree, this is a huge kitchen. The double islands seem to be placed awkwardly. Also, where oh where is your fridge going?

Can you post a whole-house plan so we get an idea of how the space may be configured?


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RE: big kitchen advice need your thoughts on a 22.5ft run of coun

This layout would not seem to work very efficoently or comfortably. Visualize making specific meals, storing and retrieving tasks, family use, entertaining in it. How well does it work for you? How much walking back and forth and around things? Where will you do most of your prep?

Who do you have working with you on this?


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RE: big kitchen advice need your thoughts on a 22.5ft run of coun

i found a similar layout kitchen on houzz. do you like it? based on all the "too big" feedback, what i'm thinking i could do is cut the 22' in half and put in a second set of double sliders that would be open to the second island. the eat in table is adjacent with a double slider opening on to a raised patio.

also i will post a first floor plan.
thank you for all your comments.


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RE: big kitchen advice need your thoughts on a 22.5ft run of coun

What do you see as the purpose of the second island? Your photo shows seating a looong way from the prep sink and cooktop, so folks on the island aren't going to be chatting with the cook.

If I had a spectacular view like the one in the picture, I'd put island seating facing the window instead of the range.


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RE: big kitchen advice need your thoughts on a 22.5ft run of coun

I knew I recognized that view. :) it's across the water.

I had no idea that kitchens even came that big. ;)
There are a ton of two island kitchens on Houzz.

Well, I have no ideas, the scope is beyond anything I could dream.


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RE: big kitchen advice need your thoughts on a 22.5ft run of coun

It must be designed by a man who doesn't cook. It's all about compensatory sizing to impress, and has zero to do with actually making any meals or interacting with the family.


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RE: big kitchen advice need your thoughts on a 22.5ft run of coun

There are a lot of restaurant kitchens that aren't this big, with multiple people in the work zone at all times and wait staff in and out. The only thing larger is the actual range, which could be quite large. The key to cooking in volume and entertaining isn't size, it's efficiency.

My SO used to be a pastry chef and made fresh breadsticks and a full, high-concept, dessert menu for over 100 covers daily in an area that was quite small.

I realize that part of the cooking/entertaining aspect is social, and this requires room and not as much efficiency, but I don't think this looks like a social kitchen either. Your path of travel between things means that anybody who is not involved in the prep, and some that are, will be in the way unless they are at the far sides of the far island.


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RE: big kitchen advice need your thoughts on a 22.5ft run of coun

When my kids were young we lived in an old and spacious farm house, The kitchen was 15' x 25' and it was very comfortable and workable with kids and their friends in and out all the time. Everything was on one long wall, both short walls were all windows and the opposite long wall had a large fireplace, built-in glass fronted china cupboards and a wide door to the rest of the house. A large farm table was in the center and used for both prepping and eating. We had a 30" range and a single sink. The room never seemed too big and the appliances never seemed small. I frequently entertained large groups (60+) and I loved having room to spread out as I was preparing large formal dinners. A room that large would never suit me now but it was perfect at the time. Enjoy your space.


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RE: big kitchen advice need your thoughts on a 22.5ft run of coun

here is more of the kitchen


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RE: big kitchen advice need your thoughts on a 22.5ft run of coun

here is more of the kitchen


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RE: big kitchen advice need your thoughts on a 22.5ft run of coun

more


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RE: big kitchen advice need your thoughts on a 22.5ft run of coun

The kichen isn't the only thing that needs working on. Too many awkward places to eat, but not enough of a social connection between the too large rooms. Is this a 10,000 square foot house? If so, then 2 kitchens would be more the norm for that.


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RE: big kitchen advice need your thoughts on a 22.5ft run of coun

Hi Jen- Just wanted to say that you have come to the right place for some good advice, and want to encourage you to sift through all the suggestions and weigh them for their respective merit. I have already seen several valid points made in the above comments, and since you've added a little more info, I think folks will have more to work with. So here is what I am seeing...
I will use compass points the way it is laid out to describe certain features for the sake of clarity- I am sure the house is probably oriented differently, so here goes.

The kitchen is really big enough to support a wonderful eat-in area and dispense with the "dinette" area altogether. Taking out the west island or slimming it down would still allow for a lot of storage, especially on your run. Slimming it down to 24" to 30" across would give you a fabulous buffet serving area accessible to both the family room AND the eat in kitchen.

If you are needing two of everything, as some religions actually prefer- I would place 2 sinks in front of your bank of windows, seperated by a pullout recycling builtin. A dishwasher to the right of one sink, and to the left of the other would provide symmetry and keep your plumbing simpler. It would also be handy to pick up your glassware from those positions to your uppers.

I would rather see a main built in fridge/freezer located on the southwest wall against the wall where the toilet is. Again, plumbing supply right there. Drawer microwave in the slenderized buffet island, facing the interior of the kitchen. The microwave is one of the most accessed appliances after the fridge from the family room. Those things should be on that side.

Now, the center island/table... turn it east to west in the room and don't make it so big you can't reach the center from the north and south sides. Leave tons of passage space to move around. You have the room to do it. Put a small round prep sink opposite your stove for dumping pasta, etc. if there are too many steps from your cooktop to your window sink(s). I assume the stove is located where it is for the sightline from the family room/foyer area? Well, that's fine and will look pretty, but instead of wall ovens in that northeast threshold area, how about a nice commercial style range with its own ovens over there. The wall ovens as they are drawn, are going to open up in front of that back doorway.

You have a beautiful dining room to use for formal occasions, and an opportunity to maximize your sight lines by not putting any obstructions in the present dinette area, leading out onto your patio. Besides for being a very vogue thing to do right now, an eat- kitchen would minimize the sense of visual redundancy from dinette to patio, as I would guess that will take a table as well.

I tried to find a pic that reminded me of your window wall and dual dishwashers. Here is one.


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RE: big kitchen advice need your thoughts on a 22.5ft run of coun

Another long run like yours near the windows. Very pleasant space.


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RE: big kitchen advice need your thoughts on a 22.5ft run of coun

thank you for the great suggestions musicgal. ive been seeing some great pics from your home. beautiful.
i have thought about moving the second island 90 degrees. but my husband is very ocd and needs them in the same config.

scpalmetto - yes! definitely expect to downsize wouldnt want to clean and maintain a kitchen like this after the kids are grown.

if there is a tight working triangle -- stove, prep sink and fridge. i think this works great for me. i may put some stools under the first island so there's an option to sit there as well. i don't understand some of the flaming for a big space.

yes this is a oversized kitchen but has been my dream forever. with 3 kids, if they have 1-2 friends over, the space gets crowded quick. i want them to want to hang out at home if at all possible. pipe dream who knows. at least i can fill it with my friends often. :)


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RE: big kitchen advice need your thoughts on a 22.5ft run of coun

Look at the picture of that ginormous kitchen that you posted. Everything that the cook needs is at the far end. The working triangle is actually quite small. If you look, the range is on the far wall, right across on the island is the prep sink and immediately to the left of the range is the fridge. That working triangle is well within comfortable walking. The clean-up is along the window wall., well out of the way of the prep area. And I don't see any wall ovens.

You don't have that.


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RE: big kitchen advice need your thoughts on a 22.5ft run of coun

If you put the fridge where you have the range, then turn both islands and join them into one with the cooktp and a prep sink on it, then you will have created function out of chaos. Right now, thepoints of use are way too spread out, and THAT is what people are responding to in the layout. Big isn't better when it comes to working in a kitchen. It's exhausting, and makes life harder. Two islands isn't better than one well designed one. Especially for socializing.


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RE: big kitchen advice need your thoughts on a 22.5ft run of coun

This is quite an undertaking. I have to wonder where your design professional is in all this.


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RE: big kitchen advice need your thoughts on a 22.5ft run of coun

Assuming the back isn't due west or east, I think having tall counter level windows along the entire run would look amazing. You will have plenty of cabinet/drawer space if you keep the two islands and the pantry. Good luck.


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RE: big kitchen advice need your thoughts on a 22.5ft run of coun

holly springs, i have drawn out what you suggested. i do love the flow of a prep sink next to the range but three things that i do not like are 1. range in island 2.path from dining room to cleanup sink is blocked 3. fridge is far for everyone else in kitchen


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RE: big kitchen advice need your thoughts on a 22.5ft run of coun

Hi jen11k - have you seen the "Somethings Gotta Give" kitchen? I've always loved that kitchen and it's large but manages to still feel so warm and cozy. Anyway, I was thinking that you may want to make the first island that's closer to the stove more square, like in that kitchen, so really there is lot of prep space for different cooks all around, and then have the second island be a little more narrow and more for seating. Maybe put the microwave on the back side of the first island on the side away from the range so your kids could be mwing something and not be in the way with our prep. Anyway, just some thoughts - happy planning!


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RE: big kitchen advice need your thoughts on a 22.5ft run of coun

Instead of two islands -- perhaps consider switching to have a banquette (with storage under it) built into the back of the primary island -- and then add a table and chairs (with suitable lighting) right there .....


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RE: big kitchen advice need your thoughts on a 22.5ft run of coun

You mentioned your husband is very ocd about the islands placements. Does he cook? How often? If rarely or not at all it doesn't matter how ocd he is, the kitchen has to work for YOU. No concessions just to feed someone else's obsessions. Now, if he is active in the kitchen that is another matter entirely.


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RE: big kitchen advice need your thoughts on a 22.5ft run of coun

I haven't read everything but wanted to throw out a comment that while large, 22' could be quite manageable. Our back wall is 18 1/2 feet wide (includes double ovens on left over to right wall) and we have a very comfortable and usable layout.

Good luck!


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RE: big kitchen advice need your thoughts on a 22.5ft run of coun

OB2B your kitchen WORKS because you paid attention to keeping the work zones tight, not spread out all over the place.


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RE: big kitchen advice need your thoughts on a 22.5ft run of coun

I understand your intention, but just because the room is large that still doesn't guarantee that people will hang out in it. Large or small, it needs to function properly in its purpose. I am not seeing the "inviting" or "interaction" aspects that you are looking for in this layout. To me it looks like people are going to be pushed far away from the kitchen proper, and at that point they might as well be in a different room that has more comfortable seating than a kitchen generally does.

People are not that comfortable in vast spaces. If you put people in a large room, where do they tend to gravitate? The middle? --Probably the corners. How often have you been at parties where their is plenty of space in the middle and there are people standing in the doorways and hallways?


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RE: big kitchen advice need your thoughts on a 22.5ft run of coun

aokat15 - yes loved that movie the kitchen was beautiful! i would take that kitchen in a heartbeat the only issue is the cleanup sink is a little far from the eating area, which is a prblem i see with larger kitchens.
i would make my first island a square but this would block the flow from the DR/bultlerpantry to the cleanupsink - thoguhts? and that is the perfect place for the microwave - drawer or cutout though?

greenhaven - yes he cooks on weekends and for guests. i cook. when it's just me and the kids, when i cook during the week they will sit/eat at the first island with me. homework can be done on the dinette table, second island or media counter. i'm thinking of shrinking my stove to 36" instead of 48" so that i have 2.5' couterspace on each side. i'll put my ovens on the window wall nearest to stove.

teacats --my thought was to put hidden stool seating on the first island facing the stove so there's an option of sitting there but there would be three seats max. the second island would handle many more. When we casually entertain, would like food on that first island and guests /kids sitting on the second island overflow to the dinette table. not having enough seats is a huge pet peeve of mine.

oldbat2be nice kitchen!
love the ceiling cutout and lighting, seating for 5 is so great.


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RE: big kitchen advice need your thoughts on a 22.5ft run of coun

nightowlrn the back of the house is facing west so the sun sets on that wall - beautiful lake sunsets but not easy on the eyes! we have 4 windows over the cleanup sink. could do more but might want to put a narrow upper cab on one side


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RE: big kitchen advice need your thoughts on a 22.5ft run of coun

Okay since you're pretty much ignoring any advice that isn't perfectly aligned with what you all ready planned to do before you even posted anything, --(mentioning specifically by name only those who have no reservations about what you are trying to do)-- I will butt out.

But really this is supposed to be a forum for constructive advice, not just self-validation.


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RE: big kitchen advice need your thoughts on a 22.5ft run of coun

What Pal said.

Except I'll say that you desperately need a better architect. The whole home plan has numerous flow issues. The kitchen is just the biggest symptom of the disconnect between size and functionality. Impressively large isn't functional. The space has to be in the right spots for it to get used. Isolationism and a lot of walking probably isn't what you intend. But, it's what you've got here. Because that's what's designed into it.


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RE: big kitchen advice need your thoughts on a 22.5ft run of coun

jen11k, I understand that it can be frustrating to hear anything but compliments on a house plan on which you've no doubt spent a lot of time and money.

Please understand in turn that the folks here have no hidden agenda; they really like to help people build wonderful, functional kitchens and homes. Sometimes the advice is the exact opposite of what a poster had envisioned. Those who can swallow their pride, or not take things personally, can learn from the advice, and together with this generous and talented group, come up with a design that will make the poster happy for decades.

I had a few things in my kitchen plan that were not popular here, but the feedback I got forced me to look long and hard at my plan, defend my choices, and ultimately, made for a better kitchen.

Good luck to you.


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RE: big kitchen advice need your thoughts on a 22.5ft run of coun

annkh - thank you. yes completely agree with you and my intent here is to get constructive criticism. i havent responded to some who tell me whats wrong without adding how I would make it better. if they have made those comments, I have been in extensive thought and drawing out how I can incorporate them to make this a better layout and if i can or cannot do it.

so back to my 22' counter, i'm trying to put in a broom closet at the east end, double oven next to it close to the stove, one large cleanup sink with dishwasher ample counter on both sides of the sink. then at the west end, I'm thinking of lowering the counter and make it a desk space with a seat.
wdyt about that?


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RE: big kitchen advice need your thoughts on a 22.5ft run of coun

The people you're ignoring are kitchen/interior designers, and it's a privilege that they have taken an interest in your layout.


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RE: big kitchen advice need your thoughts on a 22.5ft run of coun

It appears that you only have one wall for your kitchen as the islands, due to your constraints (we all have them), can not be usefully incorporated into the kitchen

That window wall then must have the fridge on it instead of across the kitchen. You use the fridge a whole heck of a lot more than your ovens. When you bake something it stays in the oven for anywhere from 30 mins to 2 hours. A fridge you are in and out, in and out, in and out. Walking across that kitchen to the fridge will get old fast.

Put the fridge where you currently plan on putting the ovens. Put the ovens and the pull-out broom closet in the area where you plan on putting the fridge. You now have the ovens and pantry near one another. If you do a lot of baking, put a prep sink and trash pull-out at this end of the island by the range and this area becomes your baking center..

The broom closet does not need to be taking up valuable working triangle space.

Your prep area will probably be between your fridge and sink. Left center your sink on that wall with the DW to the left of it, close to the dinette area for clean-up.


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RE: big kitchen advice need your thoughts on a 22.5ft run of coun

i'm so very sorry if i'm not responding to each comment. please don't think i'm ignoring you. i am reading everything!!


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RE: big kitchen advice need your thoughts on a 22.5ft run of coun

blfenton, did you look at some of the later layout pics? the refrigerator is on the wall opposite the wall you are thinking. this is were the fridge will be next to the counter and door to the pantry.


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RE: big kitchen advice need your thoughts on a 22.5ft run of coun

hollysprings would you mind elaborating on your comments .... don't understand where you see awkward places to eat. there are seats at the second island, the dinette table and of course in the dining room. i'm thinking of adding 3 stools on the first island tucked underneath.
And about the social connection between the too large rooms - which large rooms do you mean? if you are talking about the family room-kitchen, i am going to ask to put a two or three foot wall/pillars on both sides of the room to separate btwn the spaces. they are drawn wide open right now.

i'm going to post up pic with changes. should i keep going here or start a new thread?


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RE: big kitchen advice need your thoughts on a 22.5ft run of coun

sounds like a big response to turning the island into one big one - coming from the dining room butlers pantry, if i turn the island like in the pics you posted, it would get in the way of getting to the clean up sink. would you still turn it? i don't like having to walk around sich a big island. cutting it in half makes more island area and a way through. if this kitchen were small i would say def yes, but we are over twenty feet going both ways.


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RE: big kitchen advice need your thoughts on a 22.5ft run of coun

Yes, I saw that. I'm suggesting that it be put on the sink wall . Is there a reason that it can't be put there? And then put the ovens on pantry wall.

This post was edited by blfenton on Sun, Jul 27, 14 at 18:04


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RE: big kitchen advice need your thoughts on a 22.5ft run of coun

blfenton never thought to put fridge there bc that is the farthest corner of the kitchen. coming in from the mudroom hall easy to drop groceries to go straight to pantry or fridge from the same spot.


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